im a half-noob [Archive] - Wizards Community

im a half-noob [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Captain_Cookies
04-30-07, 09:19 PM i am a half-noob if you will at D&D. i am considering making a warforged artificer and i was wondering if anyone could give me any pointers on begining one. i would really apriciate it.
Dragoloth
04-30-07, 09:35 PM Go to the unofficial artificers playing guide. It is a sticky at the top of this forum. It is excellent and gives the best options and info for artificers for each race. Hope that helps.
dunkeykong
04-30-07, 10:48 PM i am a half-noob if you will at D&D. i am considering making a warforged artificer and i was wondering if anyone could give me any pointers on begining one. i would really apriciate it.

A 'forged arty sounds like a bit of a tall order for a noob. i would suggest an easier character concept or at least dont be 'forged, that opens up a whole new can of worms.
TheAnthroDM
04-30-07, 11:21 PM The Artificer is what I call an "experienced" class. Consider playing a class that requires you to keep track of less items, infusion/spells ect.

I would recomend play a item making Wizard/Sorcerer before trying to tackle the Artificer.
Edymnion
05-01-07, 12:22 PM Direct link to the guide:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=813665

And yes, the Artificer is essentially an expert level class. It will quickly bury an inexperienced player under a mountain of options. I really would not suggest it for anyone that doesn't already have a firm working knowledge of the PHB classes.
Captain_Cookies
05-01-07, 04:53 PM i really apriciate the advice and i hope some day that i might be able to be one. i am currently playing a wizard and i am level 7. i have been reading the unofficial atrificer guide and when i opened it last night i realized how silly my question was. but i think i will still make a back-up warforged-something because my dm says he will help me if i do. again i apriciate the imediate responce. thank you
Captain_Cookies
05-01-07, 05:19 PM also is there any class with a "tinkering" aspect? that i could figure out. even if its a moderate skill class, my dm is willing to help.
Edymnion
05-01-07, 05:34 PM also is there any class with a "tinkering" aspect? that i could figure out. even if its a moderate skill class, my dm is willing to help.Well, a wizard makes the second best item crafter in the game, using their bonus feats to take crafting feats.
And if you manage your xp loss from item crafting correctly, you will actually come out with more xp than the rest of the party in the long run.
LoneStranger
05-01-07, 07:38 PM Hmmmm half-noob, what level adjustment is that again? And which book is that template in ;)

Seriously though as far as classes that can tinker it's generally the artificer, you get an XP pool to make stuff with, you can break down magic items to add to said XP pool, and it would fit with the previous idea you had.
TheAnthroDM
05-01-07, 08:31 PM And if you manage your xp loss from item crafting correctly, you will actually come out with more xp than the rest of the party in the long run.

Though doing so purposefully can be easily(and justly) seen as metagaming and rules exploiting.

Most DMs I know don't approve of exploiting the RAW when it means it hurts the flavor.
Edymnion
05-01-07, 09:11 PM Though doing so purposefully can be easily(and justly) seen as metagaming and rules exploiting.Yeah, it is. But then, falling behind the rest of the party due to crafting is a very real threat for any non-artificer. Carefully planning what to craft and when to craft it can give you a fighting chance of keeping up with the party.

For those that are wondering, what you do is craft something that will put you roughly 1 fight behind the rest of the party. You will get more xp from that next fight to help you catch up to the rest of the party, and if you play it right, the xp will be enough not only to let you reach the same level as the party again, but overshoot them as well. Problem is that its virtually impossible to overshoot them by any significant amount, but it can mean you get a "free" low level utility scroll or two out of it.
Captain_Cookies
05-02-07, 04:29 PM funny that you guys talk about the xp pool thing. my dm actualy takes a small amount of xp from every one and puts it in an "item creation pool" so that problem is solved and i guess ill stick with a wizard untill i can play an arty
LoneStranger
05-02-07, 07:31 PM Huh, really? That's the first I've heard of that. Makes sense when you think about it though, especially if he makes items for the party to use.

*Starts up Rant-o-matic 5000*
That's the one thing I've never liked about making items, the XP cost. Going on the rules as written you can never convince me to play a character to make magic items in D&D (or mastercraft items in Star Wars, same process). Here I am about to hit the next level but people in the group want/need better weapons/armor/items, so I get to make them during downtime and I sink down to the XP level I needed to achieve the current level. Great so everyone else levels and I'm still stuck where I was before the fight. This keeps up long enough and you got a bunch of epic level people draggin my corpse back to be raised again because I'm at least 5 levels behind the rest of the party due to the fighter's +insane sword of planet cleaving, it ain't right man.
*kicks the Rant-o-matic 5000 to stop it*

Right I feel better now, never did like the spending of XP for item creation.
Captain_Cookies
05-02-07, 08:11 PM yah its great being the same level as everyone else in the group(excluding the swordsage ebixian).:P
Edymnion
05-02-07, 08:47 PM That's the one thing I've never liked about making items, the XP cost.So buy your items at full market price. The entire point of spending the xp is to put a limit on you to keep you from just crafting willy nilly.

And trust me, spending xp is a HELL of a lot better than the 2e system, which cost you 1 point of Constitution for every item. Permanent, irreversable con drain.
LoneStranger
05-03-07, 07:43 PM The main thing keeping anybody who plays wizards in the games I've been in from making magic items all the time is time.

"time to go off on the next adventure"
"time to go meet with the lord of the realm and report on our progress"
"time to go plane-hopping"

Usually there isn't enough downtime to make everything, just one or two items usually and then off again.

However if given a choice between spending XP and losing Con, all of a sudden spending XP sounds loads better.
Edymnion
05-03-07, 08:46 PM The main thing keeping anybody who plays wizards in the games I've been in from making magic items all the time is time.

"time to go off on the next adventure"
"time to go meet with the lord of the realm and report on our progress"
"time to go plane-hopping"

Usually there isn't enough downtime to make everything, just one or two items usually and then off again.

However if given a choice between spending XP and losing Con, all of a sudden spending XP sounds loads better.It should be noted that a Wizard can take the Artisan feats, and a wizard can make a Dedicated Wright, just like the Artificer can.
Captain_Cookies
05-04-07, 01:55 PM so i read the whole unnofficial artificers guide and it makes sense to me. so maybe next game ill try. unless there is something left out that makes it harder
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer
05-04-07, 02:29 PM The main thing keeping anybody who plays wizards in the games I've been in from making magic items all the time is time.

"time to go off on the next adventure"
"time to go meet with the lord of the realm and report on our progress"
"time to go plane-hopping"

Usually there isn't enough downtime to make everything, just one or two items usually and then off again.

I have a spell for that. 'Create time' You simply say 'Dammit why wont you people leave me alone!? Can't you see that Im trying to work!?' In increasingly irritable tones untill you finish your progect. Works in RL too.

More Practicaly as an Elf trances for 4 hours and a human sleeps for 8 thats a free 4 hours crafting time per day, or a days work every 48hours, soon adds up.
Forged_For_Hire
05-04-07, 04:36 PM I personally liked your thoughts on being a warforged artificer. It is a very beneficial race/class combination once you get used to the game. Might I suggest a forged sorcerer for your next class? Look into the Reforged to help with the spell failure.
Captain_Cookies
05-04-07, 06:45 PM thanks ill look into that. i dont have the books myself but my dm does and i have a session tomaorrow. also im pretty intent on the hordeficer build because thats the kind of character i asked for the very first time i played the game. i played a necromancer in guild wars and i had the max amount of summons. in diablo i was also a necro. so it seem like the type for me. and i am taking heed to all the warnings of the difficulty of the arty and i will wait:waits: untill i am more experienced.
sirhcvd02
05-05-07, 03:09 AM i still think wizards are a better crafter if you can do the math and choose good feats. Like someone mentioned the discount feats in Eberron are applicable to wizards, just doesnt mean they get to attain all the crafts.

Another thing I didnt like about artificer crafting was the always forced creator level, you cant specify what level you want to make an item at, its always the artificer lv +2 which gets expensive for lower lv stuff at higher levels.

market price - lv 10 wand of fireball (max) - 22500gp

A lv 15 wizard could make say a wand of fireball, choosing
caster lv 10 (max) spl lv 3, x375, = 11250gp 450xp

A lv 15 artificer has to make the same thing at the forced lv
artificer lv 15+2 = "caster lv 17" and uses the artificer lv 15, but fireball max is at lv10.
So to make the same thing at lv 15 for artificer would be
17 x 3 x 375 = 19125gp 450xp
(xp same because its off MARKET PRICE x .04)

at lv 15, the price difference is sometimes negligible, but annoying as you cant control the artificer's effective caster level. If an artificer reaches epic levels, sure they should be focusing on higher level spells and such, but making the good old dependable lower lv items will cost loads more. This is a significant drawback because a player will pay thousands more for the same item, to the point where they might as well buy the darn thing.

I found a cool race and prestige class in the Mythic Races book, Anaeman crafters, in their prestige class they get to craft focus and get a 25% gp and xp drop. Added with Eberron's extraordinary and legendary artisan is another 25% gp xp drop. Then depending on dms, there are other places where there are bonus feats that cut the xp cost, like Ultimate Feats has a feat that cuts 10% xp costs on spells too like wish.

remember also nifty little hacks like pg282 on the DMG where u can cut the gp cost with class or race limits.

and for the people that complain about getting left behind in lvs, CHARGE FOR YOUR ITEMS, you might create at 50% off, u can CHARGE up to 100% the market price and 50% goes to YOU... i charge my friends 80-90% and with that extra money, getting a level or two behind is not so bad, but 5 lvs behind, your dm kinda sux haha.
Edymnion
05-05-07, 03:27 PM so i read the whole unnofficial artificers guide and it makes sense to me. so maybe next game ill try. unless there is something left out that makes it harderThe hardest part is getting used to the "I can do anything" aspect of the class, and the long prep time it takes for the Artificer to "power up" for combat. But if you followed the guide all the way through and still think you want to do it, then by all means go for it. Artificer is an incredibly fun class to play, its just that it can be difficult and confusing for new players that still have trouble picking a feat for their Fighter when they're suddenly bombarded with every spell and magical item in the game as choices.More Practicaly as an Elf trances for 4 hours and a human sleeps for 8 thats a free 4 hours crafting time per day, or a days work every 48hours, soon adds up.Just a correction here, but by the rules you cannot spend more than 8 hours a day on any single item. Magical items you can only do 8 hours a day and nothing else, and mundane items you have to change over to something new after every 8 hours.

Remember, there are 24 hours in a day. 8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of crafting, that still leaves you another 8 hours a day for miscellaneous stuff, but you'll notice that a human can't spend those 8 hours getting ahead.

The best the elf could do is trance 4 hours, spend 8 hours crafting one item, 8 hours crafting another item (and only one of those items could be magical), and 4 hours for things like food and bathroom breaks.
Edymnion
05-05-07, 03:32 PM I found a cool race and prestige class in the Mythic Races book, Anaeman crafters, in their prestige class they get to craft focus and get a 25% gp and xp drop. Added with Eberron's extraordinary and legendary artisan is another 25% gp xp drop. Then depending on dms, there are other places where there are bonus feats that cut the xp cost, like Ultimate Feats has a feat that cuts 10% xp costs on spells too like wish. Third party material should always be taken with a grain of salt.remember also nifty little hacks like pg282 on the DMG where u can cut the gp cost with class or race limits.As a DM, I don't allow this. I houserule that those gp savings apply only to final market price, and not the crafting price. It cuts out a lot of the people trying to cheat the system by making a weapon that can only be used by "Brown haired green eyed half evels named Bob that are between 5'6" and 5'7" tall with a mole on their left butt cheek". It still works at full power for the guy that made it, since they meet all the prereqs, so there is no drawback for them (if anything, it should cost MORE for this, because you've just ensured that nobody could take your weapon and use it against you). No restriction for the person using it, no price break in my book.
and for the people that complain about getting left behind in lvs, CHARGE FOR YOUR ITEMS, you might create at 50% off, u can CHARGE up to 100% the market price and 50% goes to YOU... i charge my friends 80-90% and with that extra money, getting a level or two behind is not so bad, but 5 lvs behind, your dm kinda sux haha.I cover that in the guide, actually. And I was not kind to people that abuse their fellow players in that fashion.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer
05-05-07, 04:02 PM I was more meaning that an Elf can Adventure with his buddies 16 hours, trance while they sleep, and get in 4 hours of crafting before the humans are up, a days progress every 48 hours. I know all about the restictions on 8 hour throws on a given progect.
dunkeykong
05-07-07, 10:49 PM Third party material should always be taken with a grain of salt.

that should be sigged and stickied.
sirhcvd02
05-08-07, 04:36 PM Third party material should always be taken with a grain of salt.As a DM, I don't allow this. I houserule that those gp savings apply only to final market price, and not the crafting price. It cuts out a lot of the people trying to cheat the system by making a weapon that can only be used by "Brown haired green eyed half evels named Bob that are between 5'6" and 5'7" tall with a mole on their left butt cheek". It still works at full power for the guy that made it, since they meet all the prereqs, so there is no drawback for them (if anything, it should cost MORE for this, because you've just ensured that nobody could take your weapon and use it against you). No restriction for the person using it, no price break in my book.
I cover that in the guide, actually. And I was not kind to people that abuse their fellow players in that fashion.

some third party books are alright by me, and that craft focus can only be taken twice at high levels and the drawback that the Anaeman characters suffer a -8 strength penalty on things they are not attuned to, (which costs xp).

as for the dmg that lets players cut into the prices, ive heard of those that abuse it with such ridiculous aspects, but the book only specifies, race, class, and skill. The DMG seems to imply on allowing for 30% for EACH race and class, I would allow 15% for race, 15% for class 10% max for skill, and this is a minus to the cost to make, NOT for the base price, (which then in effect is 20% off base price.)

As for restrictions, it is nice that nobody will steal your weapon, but when passing say a ring of invisibility to your friends that will work for elves only, it is definitely a restriction that is hefty.

As a DM myself I wont allow prices to fall below 25% of the base price in gp or xp, even if they got to epic levels and found the right feats and prestige classes.
(Still, artificers will be very satisfied with a 75% off xp and a craft reserve.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Captain_Cookies 04-30-07, 09:19 PM	i am a half-noob if you will at D&D. i am considering making a warforged artificer and i was wondering if anyone could give me any pointers on begining one. i would really apriciate it.
Dragoloth 04-30-07, 09:35 PM	Go to the unofficial artificers playing guide. It is a sticky at the top of this forum. It is excellent and gives the best options and info for artificers for each race. Hope that helps.
dunkeykong 04-30-07, 10:48 PM	i am a half-noob if you will at D&D. i am considering making a warforged artificer and i was wondering if anyone could give me any pointers on begining one. i would really apriciate it. A 'forged arty sounds like a bit of a tall order for a noob. i would suggest an easier character concept or at least dont be 'forged, that opens up a whole new can of worms.
TheAnthroDM 04-30-07, 11:21 PM	The Artificer is what I call an "experienced" class. Consider playing a class that requires you to keep track of less items, infusion/spells ect. I would recomend play a item making Wizard/Sorcerer before trying to tackle the Artificer.
Edymnion 05-01-07, 12:22 PM	Direct link to the guide: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=813665 And yes, the Artificer is essentially an expert level class. It will quickly bury an inexperienced player under a mountain of options. I really would not suggest it for anyone that doesn't already have a firm working knowledge of the PHB classes.
Captain_Cookies 05-01-07, 04:53 PM	i really apriciate the advice and i hope some day that i might be able to be one. i am currently playing a wizard and i am level 7. i have been reading the unofficial atrificer guide and when i opened it last night i realized how silly my question was. but i think i will still make a back-up warforged-something because my dm says he will help me if i do. again i apriciate the imediate responce. thank you
Captain_Cookies 05-01-07, 05:19 PM	also is there any class with a "tinkering" aspect? that i could figure out. even if its a moderate skill class, my dm is willing to help.
Edymnion 05-01-07, 05:34 PM	also is there any class with a "tinkering" aspect? that i could figure out. even if its a moderate skill class, my dm is willing to help.Well, a wizard makes the second best item crafter in the game, using their bonus feats to take crafting feats. And if you manage your xp loss from item crafting correctly, you will actually come out with more xp than the rest of the party in the long run.
LoneStranger 05-01-07, 07:38 PM	Hmmmm half-noob, what level adjustment is that again? And which book is that template in ;) Seriously though as far as classes that can tinker it's generally the artificer, you get an XP pool to make stuff with, you can break down magic items to add to said XP pool, and it would fit with the previous idea you had.
TheAnthroDM 05-01-07, 08:31 PM	And if you manage your xp loss from item crafting correctly, you will actually come out with more xp than the rest of the party in the long run. Though doing so purposefully can be easily(and justly) seen as metagaming and rules exploiting. Most DMs I know don't approve of exploiting the RAW when it means it hurts the flavor.
Edymnion 05-01-07, 09:11 PM	Though doing so purposefully can be easily(and justly) seen as metagaming and rules exploiting.Yeah, it is. But then, falling behind the rest of the party due to crafting is a very real threat for any non-artificer. Carefully planning what to craft and when to craft it can give you a fighting chance of keeping up with the party. For those that are wondering, what you do is craft something that will put you roughly 1 fight behind the rest of the party. You will get more xp from that next fight to help you catch up to the rest of the party, and if you play it right, the xp will be enough not only to let you reach the same level as the party again, but overshoot them as well. Problem is that its virtually impossible to overshoot them by any significant amount, but it can mean you get a "free" low level utility scroll or two out of it.
Captain_Cookies 05-02-07, 04:29 PM	funny that you guys talk about the xp pool thing. my dm actualy takes a small amount of xp from every one and puts it in an "item creation pool" so that problem is solved and i guess ill stick with a wizard untill i can play an arty
LoneStranger 05-02-07, 07:31 PM	Huh, really? That's the first I've heard of that. Makes sense when you think about it though, especially if he makes items for the party to use. Starts up Rant-o-matic 5000 That's the one thing I've never liked about making items, the XP cost. Going on the rules as written you can never convince me to play a character to make magic items in D&D (or mastercraft items in Star Wars, same process). Here I am about to hit the next level but people in the group want/need better weapons/armor/items, so I get to make them during downtime and I sink down to the XP level I needed to achieve the current level. Great so everyone else levels and I'm still stuck where I was before the fight. This keeps up long enough and you got a bunch of epic level people draggin my corpse back to be raised again because I'm at least 5 levels behind the rest of the party due to the fighter's +insane sword of planet cleaving, it ain't right man. kicks the Rant-o-matic 5000 to stop it Right I feel better now, never did like the spending of XP for item creation.
Captain_Cookies 05-02-07, 08:11 PM	yah its great being the same level as everyone else in the group(excluding the swordsage ebixian).:P
Edymnion 05-02-07, 08:47 PM	That's the one thing I've never liked about making items, the XP cost.So buy your items at full market price. The entire point of spending the xp is to put a limit on you to keep you from just crafting willy nilly. And trust me, spending xp is a HELL of a lot better than the 2e system, which cost you 1 point of Constitution for every item. Permanent, irreversable con drain.
LoneStranger 05-03-07, 07:43 PM	The main thing keeping anybody who plays wizards in the games I've been in from making magic items all the time is time. "time to go off on the next adventure" "time to go meet with the lord of the realm and report on our progress" "time to go plane-hopping" Usually there isn't enough downtime to make everything, just one or two items usually and then off again. However if given a choice between spending XP and losing Con, all of a sudden spending XP sounds loads better.
Edymnion 05-03-07, 08:46 PM	The main thing keeping anybody who plays wizards in the games I've been in from making magic items all the time is time. "time to go off on the next adventure" "time to go meet with the lord of the realm and report on our progress" "time to go plane-hopping" Usually there isn't enough downtime to make everything, just one or two items usually and then off again. However if given a choice between spending XP and losing Con, all of a sudden spending XP sounds loads better.It should be noted that a Wizard can take the Artisan feats, and a wizard can make a Dedicated Wright, just like the Artificer can.
Captain_Cookies 05-04-07, 01:55 PM	so i read the whole unnofficial artificers guide and it makes sense to me. so maybe next game ill try. unless there is something left out that makes it harder
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 05-04-07, 02:29 PM	The main thing keeping anybody who plays wizards in the games I've been in from making magic items all the time is time. "time to go off on the next adventure" "time to go meet with the lord of the realm and report on our progress" "time to go plane-hopping" Usually there isn't enough downtime to make everything, just one or two items usually and then off again. I have a spell for that. 'Create time' You simply say 'Dammit why wont you people leave me alone!? Can't you see that Im trying to work!?' In increasingly irritable tones untill you finish your progect. Works in RL too. More Practicaly as an Elf trances for 4 hours and a human sleeps for 8 thats a free 4 hours crafting time per day, or a days work every 48hours, soon adds up.
Forged_For_Hire 05-04-07, 04:36 PM	I personally liked your thoughts on being a warforged artificer. It is a very beneficial race/class combination once you get used to the game. Might I suggest a forged sorcerer for your next class? Look into the Reforged to help with the spell failure.
Captain_Cookies 05-04-07, 06:45 PM	thanks ill look into that. i dont have the books myself but my dm does and i have a session tomaorrow. also im pretty intent on the hordeficer build because thats the kind of character i asked for the very first time i played the game. i played a necromancer in guild wars and i had the max amount of summons. in diablo i was also a necro. so it seem like the type for me. and i am taking heed to all the warnings of the difficulty of the arty and i will wait:waits: untill i am more experienced.
sirhcvd02 05-05-07, 03:09 AM	i still think wizards are a better crafter if you can do the math and choose good feats. Like someone mentioned the discount feats in Eberron are applicable to wizards, just doesnt mean they get to attain all the crafts. Another thing I didnt like about artificer crafting was the always forced creator level, you cant specify what level you want to make an item at, its always the artificer lv +2 which gets expensive for lower lv stuff at higher levels. market price - lv 10 wand of fireball (max) - 22500gp A lv 15 wizard could make say a wand of fireball, choosing caster lv 10 (max) spl lv 3, x375, = 11250gp 450xp A lv 15 artificer has to make the same thing at the forced lv artificer lv 15+2 = "caster lv 17" and uses the artificer lv 15, but fireball max is at lv10. So to make the same thing at lv 15 for artificer would be 17 x 3 x 375 = 19125gp 450xp (xp same because its off MARKET PRICE x .04) at lv 15, the price difference is sometimes negligible, but annoying as you cant control the artificer's effective caster level. If an artificer reaches epic levels, sure they should be focusing on higher level spells and such, but making the good old dependable lower lv items will cost loads more. This is a significant drawback because a player will pay thousands more for the same item, to the point where they might as well buy the darn thing. I found a cool race and prestige class in the Mythic Races book, Anaeman crafters, in their prestige class they get to craft focus and get a 25% gp and xp drop. Added with Eberron's extraordinary and legendary artisan is another 25% gp xp drop. Then depending on dms, there are other places where there are bonus feats that cut the xp cost, like Ultimate Feats has a feat that cuts 10% xp costs on spells too like wish. remember also nifty little hacks like pg282 on the DMG where u can cut the gp cost with class or race limits. and for the people that complain about getting left behind in lvs, CHARGE FOR YOUR ITEMS, you might create at 50% off, u can CHARGE up to 100% the market price and 50% goes to YOU... i charge my friends 80-90% and with that extra money, getting a level or two behind is not so bad, but 5 lvs behind, your dm kinda sux haha.
Edymnion 05-05-07, 03:27 PM	so i read the whole unnofficial artificers guide and it makes sense to me. so maybe next game ill try. unless there is something left out that makes it harderThe hardest part is getting used to the "I can do anything" aspect of the class, and the long prep time it takes for the Artificer to "power up" for combat. But if you followed the guide all the way through and still think you want to do it, then by all means go for it. Artificer is an incredibly fun class to play, its just that it can be difficult and confusing for new players that still have trouble picking a feat for their Fighter when they're suddenly bombarded with every spell and magical item in the game as choices.More Practicaly as an Elf trances for 4 hours and a human sleeps for 8 thats a free 4 hours crafting time per day, or a days work every 48hours, soon adds up.Just a correction here, but by the rules you cannot spend more than 8 hours a day on any single item. Magical items you can only do 8 hours a day and nothing else, and mundane items you have to change over to something new after every 8 hours. Remember, there are 24 hours in a day. 8 hours of sleep, 8 hours of crafting, that still leaves you another 8 hours a day for miscellaneous stuff, but you'll notice that a human can't spend those 8 hours getting ahead. The best the elf could do is trance 4 hours, spend 8 hours crafting one item, 8 hours crafting another item (and only one of those items could be magical), and 4 hours for things like food and bathroom breaks.
Edymnion 05-05-07, 03:32 PM	I found a cool race and prestige class in the Mythic Races book, Anaeman crafters, in their prestige class they get to craft focus and get a 25% gp and xp drop. Added with Eberron's extraordinary and legendary artisan is another 25% gp xp drop. Then depending on dms, there are other places where there are bonus feats that cut the xp cost, like Ultimate Feats has a feat that cuts 10% xp costs on spells too like wish. Third party material should always be taken with a grain of salt.remember also nifty little hacks like pg282 on the DMG where u can cut the gp cost with class or race limits.As a DM, I don't allow this. I houserule that those gp savings apply only to final market price, and not the crafting price. It cuts out a lot of the people trying to cheat the system by making a weapon that can only be used by "Brown haired green eyed half evels named Bob that are between 5'6" and 5'7" tall with a mole on their left butt cheek". It still works at full power for the guy that made it, since they meet all the prereqs, so there is no drawback for them (if anything, it should cost MORE for this, because you've just ensured that nobody could take your weapon and use it against you). No restriction for the person using it, no price break in my book. and for the people that complain about getting left behind in lvs, CHARGE FOR YOUR ITEMS, you might create at 50% off, u can CHARGE up to 100% the market price and 50% goes to YOU... i charge my friends 80-90% and with that extra money, getting a level or two behind is not so bad, but 5 lvs behind, your dm kinda sux haha.I cover that in the guide, actually. And I was not kind to people that abuse their fellow players in that fashion.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 05-05-07, 04:02 PM	I was more meaning that an Elf can Adventure with his buddies 16 hours, trance while they sleep, and get in 4 hours of crafting before the humans are up, a days progress every 48 hours. I know all about the restictions on 8 hour throws on a given progect.
dunkeykong 05-07-07, 10:49 PM	Third party material should always be taken with a grain of salt. that should be sigged and stickied.
sirhcvd02 05-08-07, 04:36 PM	Third party material should always be taken with a grain of salt.As a DM, I don't allow this. I houserule that those gp savings apply only to final market price, and not the crafting price. It cuts out a lot of the people trying to cheat the system by making a weapon that can only be used by "Brown haired green eyed half evels named Bob that are between 5'6" and 5'7" tall with a mole on their left butt cheek". It still works at full power for the guy that made it, since they meet all the prereqs, so there is no drawback for them (if anything, it should cost MORE for this, because you've just ensured that nobody could take your weapon and use it against you). No restriction for the person using it, no price break in my book. I cover that in the guide, actually. And I was not kind to people that abuse their fellow players in that fashion. some third party books are alright by me, and that craft focus can only be taken twice at high levels and the drawback that the Anaeman characters suffer a -8 strength penalty on things they are not attuned to, (which costs xp). as for the dmg that lets players cut into the prices, ive heard of those that abuse it with such ridiculous aspects, but the book only specifies, race, class, and skill. The DMG seems to imply on allowing for 30% for EACH race and class, I would allow 15% for race, 15% for class 10% max for skill, and this is a minus to the cost to make, NOT for the base price, (which then in effect is 20% off base price.) As for restrictions, it is nice that nobody will steal your weapon, but when passing say a ring of invisibility to your friends that will work for elves only, it is definitely a restriction that is hefty. As a DM myself I wont allow prices to fall below 25% of the base price in gp or xp, even if they got to epic levels and found the right feats and prestige classes. (Still, artificers will be very satisfied with a 75% off xp and a craft reserve.)