Post/Author/DateTime	Post
El_Shawno 03-20-07, 04:43 PM	Hey all, I'm about to play in my first Eberron camapaign and I'm going to be playing a rogue with a few levels of wizard throw in along the way (I'm planning on prestiging into either an Arcane Trickster or Unseen Seer). Unless I've missed something, it seems that with the bonuses and lack of level adjustment that taking the Changeling race is a no-brainer. The only argument that I can come up with against this is that playing a human would allow me an extra feat, but even that seems pretty pale when compared to the skill bonuses (especially for disguise) I'd accumulate as a Changeling. Am I right or am I wrong? If I'm wrong, please tell me why. Thanks!
Werebat 03-20-07, 04:49 PM	Hey all, I'm about to play in my first Eberron camapaign and I'm going to be playing a rogue with a few levels of wizard throw in along the way (I'm planning on prestiging into either an Arcane Trickster or Unseen Seer). Unless I've missed something, it seems that with the bonuses and lack of level adjustment that taking the Changeling race is a no-brainer. The only argument that I can come up with against this is that playing a human would allow me an extra feat, but even that seems pretty pale when compared to the skill bonuses (especially for disguise) I'd accumulate as a Changeling. Am I right or am I wrong? If I'm wrong, please tell me why. Thanks! It's a matter of preference. The human extra feat can be key for a rogue, and if you want to make a knife thrower then halfling might be more what you want. A shifter with the longstrider trait might also work well, and my personal favorite for an Eberron rogue is a goblin (small size + 30' move = sweet, the +2 Dex is just gravy). - Ron ^*^
Thindelock 03-20-07, 05:00 PM	Changeling rogue is sweet, no doubt, but I think my next Eberron rogue will be a dwarf just so I can get into the Silver Key class from Dragonmarked. Yes, thank you, I will pick those locks from 60ft away...
goblin_pride 03-20-07, 05:19 PM	and my personal favorite for an Eberron rogue is a goblin (small size + 30' move = sweet, the +2 Dex is just gravy). Shh, goblins make lousy rogues. Not the slightest bit capable as thieves and skulks. Those changelings, however, are some of the best rogues there are. A changeling is more of a "confidence" rogue though. Sure, anyone can play the con game, but a changeling doesn't have near the problems as others in this regard because they can literally change their face for a role in the old swindle. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On a personal note, in the game I play, I'm playing a goblin fighter/rogue and Lawdog is playing a changeling rogue. I have the skills that mean if I don't want to be seen, you won't see me and he plays a more social role. It's a bit of an odd dynamic, one rogue geared towards sneaking and skullduggery and the other geared heavily towards diplomacy and deceit, but it works. I honestly don't know what I'll do if one of our characters dies, they've become such a good working team that I don't know if one will be able to operate without the other.
El_Shawno 03-20-07, 05:28 PM	[QUOTE=goblin_pride;11836069] A changeling is more of a "confidence" rogue though. [QUOTE] That's the sort of Rogue I'm leaning towards right now. I wanna actually try to role-play more and the Eberron campaign, from what I've heard as a mere noob, is one where politicking and con games (forgive the redundancy) are part and parcel of a well-run game.
Beleriphon 03-20-07, 05:31 PM	Keep in mind though the changeling +10 disguise check is still affected by the normal disguise rules. So depending on what you emulate you're looking at a -8 to -12 penalty. So you'd still get ranks and the charisma bonus to the check.
Roland the Crownbreaker 03-20-07, 05:37 PM	For a con-man type of rouge, or a spy-type, changeling is pretty much the best out there. However, this is not the only type of rouge. The detective can be better played by humans (especially dragonmarked humans), the hard to spot type can often be done better by smaller races, and so on. Since rogues don't really need that many feats to function well, this allows someone who is thinking of dragonmarks to easily spend most of his feats there. A prime example of this would be Jode from the Dreaming Dark series. He is basically a rogue with House Jorasco dragonmark feats, so he doubled as a healer in the party.
Werebat 03-20-07, 05:53 PM	Shh, goblins make lousy rogues. Not the slightest bit capable as thieves and skulks. Oh, I also like the +4 Move Silently, eliminates the lopsided +4 Hide from being small. My next character may well be a goblin artificer... - Ron ^*^
goblin_pride 03-20-07, 06:02 PM	My mate Jack, Jack Random, can talk his way out of damned-near anything. We was screwing around down near the docks and I started a bit of a scuffle with a dwarf that thought us gobbos ought not be allowed to keep drawing breath among polite company. Bein' a reasonable fella, I drew my boot knife and give him a little tickle 'round his belly-button rather than going straight for his throat. I musta hit a soft spot, 'cause next I know, I'm standing over rapidly-cooling dwarf with a bloody knife 'twixt me fingers. "Bugger," I thought as I heard the shouts for the watch behind me. I flicked the blade and wiped me hands on the dwarf's cloak. I know I was screwed, there's no two ways about it. Nowhere to run and I could see the little doxy he was chatting up but my mate vanished on me. I squared meself for the ten tons of hurt 'bout to come from up the street. The coppers was smart, they come at me staggered. No easy fight here, six of the buggers. I jerked the shortblade loose from me belt and the bootknife was in my left. "I 'spose you fellas'll be wanting me to be surrendering, eh?" I said, knowing full well this wasn't gonna be one of them situations for words. They started spreading out, making like they wanted to jump me from all sides at once. All of the sudden, an old sergeant comes striding up with that walk that tells you the silly bugger's the watch. I look him in the eye as he leans in close and says, "now mate, you don't want to be making this worse than it already is, do you?" I look him square and realize he's got one blue and one green eye, so I nod at him. He says to me, "why don't you put away your weapons and we'll go have a nice little chat and make sure this fight wasn't your fault, shall we?" I resheathed my blades and he says, "that's much better, no need to have any more bloodshed this evening." He turns to one of the coppers and says, "I'll take care of the suspect, you six make sure no one disturbs the crime scene." As we clear the alley and out of the sight of the coppers, Jack says to me, "one of these days you'll figure out not to knife 'em right out in the open like that." We have us a good laugh as we head up towards the redlights with the coin from the dwarf's purse. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry for the fluff. I always figure it's best to see how something would play out in a story form. pretty good basis for a story in a goblin and changeling being friends and partners in crime and Sharn is a perfect backdrop for it as well.
ekomega 03-21-07, 08:23 PM	The reason would be that it's cliche, and everyone plays changeling rogues. I'd like to run an Eberron game where the rogue ISN'T a changeling for once. Or how about a changeling fighter? Or changeling druid?
Edymnion 03-21-07, 08:33 PM	The reason would be that it's cliche, and everyone plays changeling rogues. I'd like to run an Eberron game where the rogue ISN'T a changeling for once. Or how about a changeling fighter? Or changeling druid?Changeling Artificer with Racial Emulation. :)
Cifer 03-21-07, 08:59 PM	Is there any reason NOT to play a Changeling Rogue? The reason is called "Changeling Beguiler". It's basically a social rogue with added magic - you get all those cool spells that IMO synergize quite well with your ability to impersonate as many people as possible. However, the negative side of the changelings is that they don't get anything except their shapeshifting - a human would get that bonus feat and (IMO almost as cool for a rogueish skill character) the skill points every single level. Some other races get a plus on dex or rogue skills. All in all, while Changeling is of course a race that has rogue written all over it, there also are others where you just have to think a little bit to see how they could support the class.
Edymnion 03-21-07, 09:04 PM	However, the negative side of the changelings is that they don't get anything except their shapeshifting - a human would get that bonus feat and (IMO almost as cool for a rogueish skill character) the skill points every single level.Yes. Lets put it this way, the entire Changeling schtick comes down to +10 in Disguise. A human that spends his bonus feat on Skill Focus (Disguise), and spends his bonus skillpoints in Disguise would match the Changeling's racial bonus at lvl 4. Although, in reality, the Human could match the Changeling by lvl 2, as the Changeling still gets -2 to his checks to look like anything but a changeling (as there is an automatic -2 for trying to look like another race).
goblin_pride 03-21-07, 09:16 PM	Yes Edy, but if a changeling's player is trying to capitalize on the ability, the character will have matching ranks to the human character and probably the same feats, leaving them with a +10 over the human master of disguise at all levels.
Splendide 03-21-07, 09:19 PM	Yes, but you're not differentiating between skill points limited by rank, and a bonus effectively not limited by anything. EDIT: Yeah, what goblinpride said. Anyway, the main reason not to play a changeling rogue is dragonmarks. A Scribing-marked rogue is in position to be a wonderful forger. Passage mark is also superb.
Edymnion 03-21-07, 09:22 PM	Yes Edy, but if a changeling's player is trying to capitalize on the ability, the character will have matching ranks to the human character and probably the same feats, leaving them with a +10 over the human master of disguise at all levels.Yes, I know that. The changeling can stack his with normal ranks, the human can't. But the point is that when comparing just the racial bonuses themselves, the human bonus can match the changeling bonus by lvl 2, leaving you 18 levels of pure profit in comparison. It also goes a long way to show you just how lousy that changeling ability really is. Your normal every day changeling that hasn't poured everything into being the perfect duplicator is just as good at looking like your grandma as any second level guy with a bad wig and lipstick.
goblin_pride 03-21-07, 09:22 PM	Anyway, the main reason not to play a changeling rogue is dragonmarks. A Scribing-marked rogue is in position to be a wonderful forger. Passage mark is also superb. Assuming you want to play a forger or a smuggler. Rogues are wonderful for the levels of specialization in their skills.
goblin_pride 03-21-07, 09:25 PM	Your normal every day changeling that hasn't poured everything into being the perfect duplicator is just as good at looking like your grandma as any second level guy with a bad wig and lipstick. But my grandma wears a bad wig, no lipstick though. Sorry, just going for the laugh on this one.
Splendide 03-21-07, 09:28 PM	It also goes a long way to show you just how lousy that changeling ability really is. Your normal every day changeling that hasn't poured everything into being the perfect duplicator is just as good at looking like your grandma as any second level guy with a bad wig and lipstick.Your normal every day human that hasn't poured everything into Use Rope isn't as good at it as a second level changeling who did.
Werebat 03-21-07, 09:36 PM	My mate Jack, Jack Random, can talk his way out of damned-near anything. (Snip) Awesome tale there. And another reason the gobbos might get along better with Changelings than some others -- they know they're too small for the Changelings to imitate THEM. - Ron ^*^
El_Shawno 03-22-07, 02:05 AM	Yinz Guys, I'm starting to think that human may not be such a bad way to go after all. I might still choose changeling but the bonus feat might not be bad. I'm thinking I could get a +2 on my Fortitude and then...??? And this brings me to another set of questions. First, what can dragonmarked feats do vis-a-vis a good build? My second question is, should I reconsider Arcane Trickster or Unseen Seer as Prestige Classes? How do they compare to the Extreme Explorer or the Investigative? Please keep in mind that I'm looking more to the "role-playing" side of things here. Finally, thanks for the comments! You've all given me a lot to think about.
taski 03-22-07, 03:22 AM	A half-elf rogue could make a good inquisitive, especially if he had the Medani dragonmark and family connections. Medani is inquisitive central, after all, and that's one of the few roles where the half-elf's skill bonuses all come in handy. Another thing to consider is the changeling rogue substitution levels in Races of Eberron. Extra skill points and some social abilities.
Cifer 03-22-07, 10:18 AM	It also goes a long way to show you just how lousy that changeling ability really is. Well, the good thing is that changeling disguising works fast. A human would need to unpack his kit, select his new clothes, apply makeup, practice the voice,... A changeling just needs a standard action (though it's more or less unknown whether he can change clothes, I'd be inclined to allow him to change them with his ability, simply because it can be replicated with a cheap hat-of-disguise)
Incudine 03-22-07, 11:07 AM	I personally like the Changeling rogue not only because of the +10 disguise at will, but (and even more) because of the racial substitution level from RoE!! 10 skill points PLUS int, all social skills could be done better and faster than any other race, sure you lose trapfinding.... take a level or more (the number of level is not important as rogue is preferred class for changelings) in Artificier, you get the trapfinding ability, plus lots of flexibility given by the infusions available :) Int is primary stats, followed by Dex and Cha = loads of Skill points in two classes that have lot of class skills in common, unparallelled social skills, trap finding AND some magic to boost :o) My question is why NOT to play a Changeling Rogue/Artificier?? Cheers Incudine
Artector 03-22-07, 04:15 PM	The reason would be that it's cliche, and everyone plays changeling rogues. I'd like to run an Eberron game where the rogue ISN'T a changeling for once. Or how about a changeling fighter? Or changeling druid? As my sig says... Changeling Warblade...
goblin_pride 03-22-07, 04:17 PM	My question is why NOT to play a Changeling Rogue/Artificier?? I was thinking the same thing. I may play one for a bit of a break if my little goblin sociopath dies.
Roland the Crownbreaker 03-22-07, 04:23 PM	Of course, any character can have +10 in almost any skill by level 2. 5 ranks, a +3 stat modifier, and a +2 synergy bonus (assuming the skill in question has it) is already +10. However, I disagree that an additional +10 is a lousy ability. Disguise is an opposed check, meaning it is also very possible for the guy who you don't want to notice may also have a +10 modifier. Padding that by an additional +10 gives a bonus not normally attainable until level 11 or 12 (depending on where stat bonuses are placed). It also makes what would normally be a 50/50 shot into something far more in your favor. In addition, changelings do not need disguise kits, nor do they need any real amount of time to pull it off. That said, not all rogues are master-of-disguise types. There are dozens, if not hundreds of basic concepts other that that single one. While the changeling may be the best at one gimmick, they can easily fall short to other races in other areas. Elves have a much easier time searching for things, dwarves have a higher resistance to the nasty pitfalls a rogue might face, the small races are much sneakier, and humans get a bonus feat and bonus skill point per level, making for a more well rounded character. Shifters have access to much better combat feats, warforged are more durable than even dwarves, and if you are thinking of a psychic rogue (from the psionics web enhancement) the kalashtar have just about everyone beat. So, yes, there are reasones to play a rogue other than the changeling. And some reason to play the changeling, if you wish.
Melvin the Mediocre 03-22-07, 04:35 PM	Yinz Guys, I'm starting to think that human may not be such a bad way to go after all. I might still choose changeling but the bonus feat might not be bad. I'm thinking I could get a +2 on my Fortitude and then...??? And this brings me to another set of questions. First, what can dragonmarked feats do vis-a-vis a good build? My second question is, should I reconsider Arcane Trickster or Unseen Seer as Prestige Classes? How do they compare to the Extreme Explorer or the Investigative? Please keep in mind that I'm looking more to the "role-playing" side of things here. Finally, thanks for the comments! You've all given me a lot to think about. I would go for the house orien dragon mark. The ability to pop around to get out of sight would be awesome, and in combat will help you get into flanking position. I'd have to read the feat again, but I think you will be able to move through walls to get at stuff with out even disturbing the locks. I think that would be awesomly useful for a spy type guy. If you go changeling you will need to get glamored armor. Sure his disquise is quick, but in a society that is used to changelings, that identical set of clothes is really going to blow your cover.
El Salvador 03-22-07, 06:31 PM	Another reason to not play a changeling rogue: be a halfling; HERE'S (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=814033) why. sorry for the shameless plug, I just couldn't help myself. Just to add something useful, here's my two cents: Why not play a Changeling Rogue? For one simple reason. This is a role playing game. The objective is not to build the best possible character, the purpose is to play a character that you'll enjoy playing. If you want to play a master of disguise, then yes! a changeling might be a good choice. But maybe you want to play a human with a disfiguring scar, who resorts to disguise to hide who they truly are. Or perhaps you want to play a gnome who wants so badly to be a dwarf that he becomes a master at disguise so he can pass as a dwarf and live his life as one. Or maybe you want to play an elf whose dream in life is to play the lead role in each one of the "1000 plays of Lord Quexos", and becomes a master of disguise to accomplish this legendary feat. Its not being innately talented at disguise that makes those characters fun to play, its the idea that they are overcoming a hardship to fulfill their inner desires. I'm not implying that you can't have an equally interesting changeling character who is a master of disguise; but if their +10 bonus is the only reason you have to make your character a changeling, you'd better start thinking of more reasons or risk playing a boring character. and thats all I have to say about that.
Gospodin_I 03-22-07, 07:44 PM	OK, just a quick post before I go to bed since I currently play a changeling rogue in an Eberron campaign. However, due to a houserule or shallow knowledge of the rules on the part of our DM (or a combination of the two), opposed disguise vs spot checks are only needed when I'm impersonating someone particular... If I'm just changing into a random elf, half-elf, etc. I just pass... Which, I hope, makes sense and makes the changeling ability more useful. Changelings can be a lot of fun but it really depends on the type of campaign you're gonna play in. If it is going to be more of hack'n'slash, Xen'Drik exploration, etc. then you might get a little bit bored (you can still have some fun though - check out the special changeling feats in Races of Eberron - they let you use some cool tactical movements in combat with the minor change shape ability). If you get in the middle of political intrigue, spying, etc. - then the changeling could be very interesting and a lot of fun. The campaign I'm playing in is more of the first and sometimes I get bored with being a changeling and I start thinking about that nice feat all those sweet extra 4, 5, 6 and counting skill points I could have got as a human. There are ways to make a changeling useful though - and it's through very good role-playing. One such way was given earlier in this thread (fantastic story!). On my part I can give you one example from my campaign - we were trying to lure a band of hobgoblins in a certain building to kill them secretly and since one of the other bands has already disappeared they were getting suspicious. Then I changed into a hobgoblin myself, leaned out of the door frame and growled something (I didn't know Goblin) to attract they attention and make them come into the building. And I succeeded. Sorry if you're not interested in my role-playing experience but I was just giving an example... Another option is to use it as second personality - in the same campaign I already have such - of a gnome journalist (naturally rather tall) from the Korranberg Chronicle named Gimbble Dimbble. I generally use him when I need to gather information since he wouldn't attract so much attention...
Pivotal 03-23-07, 08:05 AM	if you want to choose a race thats optimized for a rogue you throw the changling far away and pick up the insanity that is WHISPER GNOME! :D
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 03-26-07, 12:38 PM	A changeling is more of a "confidence" rogue though. That's the sort of Rogue I'm leaning towards right now. I wanna actually try to role-play more and the Eberron campaign, from what I've heard as a mere noob, is one where politicking and con games (forgive the redundancy) are part and parcel of a well-run game. Then you really should go changeling rogue and pick up the racial subs. It makes a rogue excel at intrigue, at the cost of trapfinding. And let's not forget 10 + INT skill points per level. That said, you could skip the first level sub and still take the other two.
Edymnion 03-26-07, 06:27 PM	if you want to choose a race thats optimized for a rogue you throw the changling far away and pick up the insanity that is WHISPER GNOME! :DWould you like a cigarette before you're shot? How about a blindfold? ;)
Roland the Crownbreaker 03-26-07, 09:23 PM	Ah, the whisper gnome. The only race without an ECL I have ever seen banned by a DM in any game I have ever played in.
Zephyrus/Sonet 03-26-07, 09:43 PM	I never got to play this character, but I liked the idea. A Changeling Warblade, with many many personas that he's trying to make famous. Since Warblades can change their weapon focus feats every day (I wanted "Weapon Master" flavor here) I could have a different weapon for each persona. Valenar Double Blade Elf. Spiked Chain Hobgoblins. Bastard Sword Human. So on and so forth, and all these famous Weapon Masters would really just be a Changeling with an identity crisis. What this has to do with the thread I have no idea. :)
goblin_pride 03-27-07, 07:07 AM	Would you like a cigarette before you're shot? How about a blindfold? ;) Bugger that, I want to hear him beg for mercy as he looks down the barrels.
Anguish2 03-27-07, 12:02 PM	We've always played changelings as though they were able to produce convincing alternate personas, but that they used the disguise skill to imitate specifics. Meaning that if you wanted to walk around as a generic human, you could. Being followed? Reverse your cloak as you go around a corner and shift. Another generic human. On the other hand, if you wanted to mimic the head-banker to rip the bank off, you need to use Disguise. Balance between RAW and functionality. We'd limited it to humans. Pointy ears or potbellies need not apply.
Daydreamer 03-27-07, 04:16 PM	They dont have darkvision/low light vision. So they cant sneak attack people in moonlight or darker, because there opponents count as camafloged.
goblin_pride 03-27-07, 06:39 PM	They dont have darkvision/low light vision. Which is exactly the reason I'm making a changeling artificer. The game I play in has a changeling rogue, if you'll recall Mr Random from the fluff above. I may see the death of my violent little goblin in that game so I'm considering a changeling artificer, not so bold as Jack, hardly as skilled socially, but able to make the little toys that level the field rather nicely.
Just another user 03-27-07, 06:50 PM	Yes, I know that. The changeling can stack his with normal ranks, the human can't. But the point is that when comparing just the racial bonuses themselves, the human bonus can match the changeling bonus by lvl 2, leaving you 18 levels of pure profit in comparison. It also goes a long way to show you just how lousy that changeling ability really is. Your normal every day changeling that hasn't poured everything into being the perfect duplicator is just as good at looking like your grandma as any second level guy with a bad wig and lipstick. no, he is as good as a 2nd level character of any other race that is very good at disguise for his level (put max ranks in it and a very specialized feat) and this without even trying. another thing to consider and is too often forgot(sp) is that "Creating a disguise requires 1d3×10 minutes of work." i.e using the disguise skill, but using the changeling minor shape change ability is a standard action.
Chimaera2000 03-28-07, 01:31 PM	I like changelings on their own; they're a race with an interesting premise that'd be loads of fun to roleplay. However, if anyone has the aforementioned Races of Eberron, then they know why you should be playing a changeling rogue. First racial substitution level: sacrifice trapfinding for 10 base skill points (x4 at 1st!), skill mastery in several skills at level one (!) and other miscellaneous social benefits. While the other substitution levels aren't as drool-worthy as the first, they're still very useful. It's true that no one beat the whisper gnome (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) on being sneaky, though. The strongheart halfling (Player's Guide to Faerun) is also solid for having most halfling traits alongside the human's bonus feat.
goblin_pride 03-28-07, 08:28 PM	It's true that no one beat the whisper gnome (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) on being sneaky, though. The strongheart halfling (Player's Guide to Faerun) is also solid for having most halfling traits alongside the human's bonus feat. I'm seriously beginning to dislike subraces.
mhacdebhandia 03-28-07, 09:50 PM	I don't have much to contribute to the thread, but the socially-oriented rogue in my new Savage Tide campaign is actually a warforged - -2 to Charisma and Wisdom be damned.
goblin_pride 03-28-07, 11:33 PM	I don't have much to contribute to the thread, but the socially-oriented rogue in my new Savage Tide campaign is actually a warforged - -2 to Charisma and Wisdom be damned. There you go. Always go against the grain if at all possible. It's sort of like my decision a while back to play a goblin fighter, nobody takes those seriously. Boy that song sure changed in a hurry though.
Chimaera2000 03-29-07, 02:38 PM	For me, one of my most memorable characters was a gnome champion/marshal with relatively cruddy ability scores. I like having a strong character as much as anyone, but definitely not at the expense of fun. If your character concept is a changeling warblade or a warforged social rogue, then optimization can shut up and sit down.
Lawdog 03-31-07, 10:50 AM	On a personal note, in the game I play, I'm playing a goblin fighter/rogue and Lawdog is playing a changeling rogue. I have the skills that mean if I don't want to be seen, you won't see me and he plays a more social role. It's a bit of an odd dynamic, one rogue geared towards sneaking and skullduggery and the other geared heavily towards diplomacy and deceit, but it works. I honestly don't know what I'll do if one of our characters dies, they've become such a good working team that I don't know if one will be able to operate without the other. We can rest at ease knowing that "Jack and the Gobo"TM will never have to work without each other. They both died tragically on Thursday. Jack sort of blamed someone who could have been an ally for running off with an item, and so a three way fight began between the bad guys (undead and emerald claws), the good guys (us, kind of), and the other guys. It did not end well for the good guys. Then again, it rarely does for our group. . . But up to that point, Jack was a blast to play.
Cifer 03-31-07, 01:50 PM	Rest in pie- er, peace. What was that other concept you wanted to try, goblin?
goblin_pride 03-31-07, 03:33 PM	What was that other concept you wanted to try, goblin? Already working on it. Changeling artificer specializing in crafting items for the druids of the Gatekeeper sect. An artificer with a purpose, if you will. It'll blend well with Lawdog's gatekeeper druid and the abilities of a changeling might just come in handy. I think I'll be playing this one as extremely comfortable with wearing the changeling's skin or the skin of others. I'm not sure, but I would imagine that living among druids would make a changeling alot less leery about walking around with their own face.
goblin_pride 03-31-07, 03:36 PM	Rest in pie- er, peace. An Awakened dire wolf, we were boned from the get-go. Rest in Pieces is strangely appropriate, though. And for the record, I now have an inkling what kibble feels like.
KidChainsaw 03-31-07, 05:12 PM	There are plenty of reasons NOT to play a changeling rogue but I'll just list two. 1.-A shifter rogue is just the thing for a mobility/stealth oriented combat nightmare, particularly if you add a level or two of ranger or warshaper. 2.-A kalashtar rogue with one or two levels of psion (telepath) will make a disgustingly effective inquisitive -provided the player isn't dense.
goblin_pride 03-31-07, 06:27 PM	1.-A shifter rogue is just the thing for a mobility/stealth oriented combat nightmare, particularly if you add a level or two of ranger or warshaper. The same could be said of a goblin with a level or two of fighter. By fifth level a goblin could have as high as a 19 in move silently and hide, assuming maximum dex, appropriate feats and max ranks in the skills. Sure, the weapons do slightly less damage, but sneak attack and the fact that no one is ever going to hear you coming will balance that out slightly.
KidChainsaw 03-31-07, 06:37 PM	True, but there just something about all the extra natural attacks combined with sneak attack damage that speaks to the violence addled 14 year-old in all of us
DrOfDemonology 04-01-07, 01:52 PM	Hey all, I'm about to play in my first Eberron camapaign and I'm going to be playing a rogue with a few levels of wizard throw in along the way (I'm planning on prestiging into either an Arcane Trickster or Unseen Seer). Unless I've missed something, it seems that with the bonuses and lack of level adjustment that taking the Changeling race is a no-brainer. The only argument that I can come up with against this is that playing a human would allow me an extra feat, but even that seems pretty pale when compared to the skill bonuses (especially for disguise) I'd accumulate as a Changeling. Am I right or am I wrong? If I'm wrong, please tell me why. Thanks! Speaking as someone who's been playing D&D for over 25 years, and who is not concerned with numbers and how many of this or that I get, I think the main focus of playing any character should be how fun it is. Too many people are powergamers (I like the old term munchkins) and are obsessed with stats and numbers and how ridiculously powerful their charcters are after bending, twisting and distorting the rules. Yes, other races get more special things than humans. But that doesn't make humans any less fun to play. I've played pretty much every classic race and class there is over the years, and it all comes down to how you play your character, not stats and numbers. If you want to play a Changeling because it'll be cool and you have a nice concept for the character, then go for it. if you play it simple as an exercise of "I get better stats" then I think you may have missed the point of D&D as a whole.
Cifer 04-01-07, 06:13 PM	@DrOfDemonology The only "point of D&D as a whole" is to have a fun evening. Whether someone achieves that by roleplaying, tactical combat or optimizing one's character is rather irrelevant, isn't it?
goblin_pride 04-01-07, 06:41 PM	Too many people are powergamers (I like the old term munchkins) and are obsessed with stats and numbers and how ridiculously powerful their charcters are after bending, twisting and distorting the rules. Powergamer is just what the Munchkins call themselves. Apparently we got just the right amount of belittling connotation into the word munchkin. I like characters that are a bit short of the optimum, sure I could have a better mix and match with another race or class combo, but that's not the fun of the game. I'll have more fun playing my changeling artificer than I would playing another race just for the fact that it's different. I'm sure that when the rest of the group finds out I'm playing a changeling artificer their jaws will drop. The munchkin of the bunch will tell me I should've chosen this feat or that instead of the artisan feats, but it's not his character. I don't want an optimized changeling, I'll play one that uses magic items to overcome his shortfalls and that'll make the character different.
Roland the Crownbreaker 04-02-07, 06:45 AM	Apparently we got just the right amount of belittling connotation into the word munchkin. I am more familiar with this definition myself. Munchkin: Person who does not play the same exact way I do. The games I am used to playing in (Mostly FR) tend to have a very generous point buy, but stat boosting items are almost impossible to find. (If a character managed to get one +2 stat booster by level 10 he was doing very good) However, many people I know would just see the stat point total and scream munchkin!!!