Kalashtar Spiritual Lineage and Sex [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kalashtar Spiritual Lineage and Sex [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wraith428
03-14-07, 12:00 AM So I have a PC kalashtar showing up in my new campaign and was re-reading the Race of Eberron kalashtar section after picking up Secrets of Sarlona and came across something interesting.

It suddenly dawned on my that all kalashtar of a particular spiritual lineage have to be of the same sex.

Here's my thinking. The kalashtar escaped Dal Quor and made their way to Adar where each kalashtar merged spirits with that of a human monk forming the first kalashtar.

When kalashtar mate (whether with a kalashtar or a human) if the child is of the same sex as the parent kalashtar they gain the same spiritual lineage as that parent. Thus a female kalashtar can pass on her spiritual lineage to her daughters and a male kalashtar can pass his onto his sons.

This being the case its impossible for a kalashtar spiritual lineage to contain more than one sex.

Now this is based off what I've read. Who knows what was up with the first generation kalashtar. Maybe they were uber-beings and every child they created was capable of possessing a spiritual lineage. But based on my reading it seem that all the kalashtar of a specific spiritual lineage should be of the same sex.

Anyone have any further info I'm missing?

Thanks,

Wraith428
Nived
03-14-07, 02:23 AM No I think you're correct in your assumptions.

Maybe the first Kalashtar just had big families.
InfinityStar8
03-14-07, 02:37 AM It does answer a few questions I had. Like if a male and female Kalashtar had a kid would it be a 50/50 of which lineage, or a merging of the two. I like the idea of this for the most part.
Nived
03-14-07, 03:02 AM It does answer a few questions I had. Like if a male and female Kalashtar had a kid would it be a 50/50 of which lineage, or a merging of the two. I like the idea of this for the most part.

If you take a Human Male and Kalashtar Female and they have a son, the son is human.

If you take a Human Male and Kalashtar Female and they have a daughter, the daughter is kalashtar.

If you take a Kalashtar Male and Human Female and they have a son, the son is kalashtar.

If you take a Kalashtar Male and Human Female and they have a daughter, the daughter is human.

If you take a Kalashtar Male and Kalashtar Female and they have a son, the son is kalashtar... of the father's line.

If you take a Kalashtar Male and Kalashtar Female and they have a daughter, the daughter is kalashtar... of the mother's line.
Bluebrush
03-14-07, 06:42 AM Interestingly enough, it also seems to be the case that some lineages have spirits of the opposite gender to their hosts.
Kid SixXx
03-14-07, 07:06 AM Interestingly enough, it also seems to be the case that some lineages have spirits of the opposite gender to their hosts.

I don't have my book in front of me, but Taratai is usually associated as a female but her first host was male, correct?
Bluebrush
03-14-07, 12:01 PM That's the ticket.
DragoonDarkfire
03-14-07, 08:44 PM Then would Tatari's host be reasonable to say "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body"?
Faithful_One
03-14-07, 09:13 PM Then would Tatari's host be reasonable to say "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body"?

:rofl:
So does Tatari like other women? :D
Bluebrush
03-14-07, 09:18 PM You could say that, but the approach Keith suggested (and what is probably easiest to go with ) is that it could mean Taratai's hosts were somewhat more femenine than the norm but still male.

Then again, as the old saying goes, Men are from Eberron, and Quori are from a shapable landscape of pure dreamstuff with a nightmarish embodiment of planar energy at the centre.

Basically when you've already got a bizzare alien in your soul, having it be of the opposite gender isn't going to make you much weirder. In fact it may be totally irrelevant given the differences between what constitutes male and female for humans and quori.

Though this also makes me wonder what would happen if you had a transgendered Kalashtar. Does the Quori spirit follow the sex or the gender?
mhacdebhandia
03-14-07, 09:36 PM Now this is based off what I've read. Who knows what was up with the first generation kalashtar. Maybe they were uber-beings and every child they created was capable of possessing a spiritual lineage. But based on my reading it seem that all the kalashtar of a specific spiritual lineage should be of the same sex.
I'm not sure what you're trying to ask.

Using Kashtai as an example, every member of its kalashtar lineage is female - Luunkashtai in Secrets of Sarlona, for instance, is the kalashtar sister of Chanaakar, a human man and the current Speaker of the Word. So we know that the human monk who first merged with Kashtai was a woman, and every daughter she had was a kalashtar of Kashtai's lineage.

It's quite possible that the monks who originally volunteered to merge with the rebel quori had children with each other, and if so all of those children would have been kalashtar from birth. Even if, say, the first woman to host Kashtai had given birth to children fathered by a human man, however, all of her daughters would still be kalashtar - and she must have had at least one. ;)
Kid SixXx
03-15-07, 09:39 AM :rofl:
So does Tatari like other women? :D

If the fluff is accurate, Taratai is a Kalaraq Quori and possibly one of the more powerful members of that caste, so she could be anywhere from a CR15 to a CR20 if she were up and swinging at people instead of lying in state during her dream exile.

If that's the case then I've got no problems with her liking whomever she wants to. :)
ChimericalWolf
03-15-07, 10:38 AM I am of the opinion that the Quori have no gender. They do not breed, have no mechanical difference based on sex that we can see, so I am of the view that the Quori are only refered to as him or her because of a flaw in the english language, the lack of a third-person-genderless pronoun. (Note that I am not an english student, and am probably wrong from a learned standpoint, but you get what I'm saying.)

While I'm sure that the mortals of Eberron projected genders on the Quori spirits based on charactaristics, I would say that the Quori themselves would not apply those labels to themselves. This might lead to such things as Quor not having gendered pronouns, which I think would be a nice touch.
DreamChaser
03-17-07, 11:37 PM I am of the opinion that the Quori have no gender. They do not breed, have no mechanical difference based on sex that we can see, so I am of the view that the Quori are only refered to as him or her because of a flaw in the english language, the lack of a third-person-genderless pronoun. (Note that I am not an english student, and am probably wrong from a learned standpoint, but you get what I'm saying.)

While I'm sure that the mortals of Eberron projected genders on the Quori spirits based on charactaristics, I would say that the Quori themselves would not apply those labels to themselves. This might lead to such things as Quor not having gendered pronouns, which I think would be a nice touch.

English does have a 3rd person genderless pronoun: IT. This is an object pronoun however and is not comfortably applied to sentient beings by most people.

Now the issue of quori gender and sex is an interesting one; they cannot reproduce so "sex" is really irrelevant. Sex is nothing more than a function of biology, which is alien in the case of the quori. Gender is another factor. Just as the warforged adopt (or come into being with) gendered personalities, it is possible that the quori are similar. Moreover, the quori are from a realm partially shaped by dreaming mortals, all of whom possess sex / gender and these influences could easily shape the quori, even newly formed ones (in that at some basic level, according to the Dreaming Dark's plan, the dreams of mortals have an effect on the nature of the core of the Dal Quor and the cycles that occur there.).

On the other hand, because the history of the kalashtar was written by the kalashar and their human families, it is safe to say that their point of view is what determined the ascribed gender of the quori spirit. Perhaps it was more comfortable for Taratai's host to imagine himself bonding with a female entity than a male one (he thought of it more as a marriage) while others may have felt more at ease imagining their spirit being of the same sex (more like conjoined twins).

DC
mhacdebhandia
03-18-07, 07:52 PM I believe it's Keith who has said that, while the quori do not reproduce sexually, they do have gender.

The same is also true of unique fiends in the Great Wheel cosmology of D&D, so I've been comfortable with it for a while. ;)

It does make some sense that creatures from the realm of dreams would be gendered like the mortals whose minds travel there at night.
Kid SixXx
03-19-07, 07:57 AM I believe it's Keith who has said that, while the quori do not reproduce sexually, they do have gender.

Quori have gender, but don't reproduce at all. Quori spirits are effectively immortal.

The number of Quori always stays constant & if one dies, another emerges from the center of Dal Quor.
DragoonDarkfire
03-19-07, 11:56 AM I believe it's Keith who has said that, while the quori do not reproduce sexually, they do have gender.

actually he said Quori have genders like Warforged have genders. Some are more masculine or femminen then others but as a whole they don't really give a **** what "gender" is or what it means.
mhacdebhandia
03-20-07, 05:38 PM Yeah, personality types which roughly correlate to gender.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wraith428 03-14-07, 12:00 AM	So I have a PC kalashtar showing up in my new campaign and was re-reading the Race of Eberron kalashtar section after picking up Secrets of Sarlona and came across something interesting. It suddenly dawned on my that all kalashtar of a particular spiritual lineage have to be of the same sex. Here's my thinking. The kalashtar escaped Dal Quor and made their way to Adar where each kalashtar merged spirits with that of a human monk forming the first kalashtar. When kalashtar mate (whether with a kalashtar or a human) if the child is of the same sex as the parent kalashtar they gain the same spiritual lineage as that parent. Thus a female kalashtar can pass on her spiritual lineage to her daughters and a male kalashtar can pass his onto his sons. This being the case its impossible for a kalashtar spiritual lineage to contain more than one sex. Now this is based off what I've read. Who knows what was up with the first generation kalashtar. Maybe they were uber-beings and every child they created was capable of possessing a spiritual lineage. But based on my reading it seem that all the kalashtar of a specific spiritual lineage should be of the same sex. Anyone have any further info I'm missing? Thanks, Wraith428
Nived 03-14-07, 02:23 AM	No I think you're correct in your assumptions. Maybe the first Kalashtar just had big families.
InfinityStar8 03-14-07, 02:37 AM	It does answer a few questions I had. Like if a male and female Kalashtar had a kid would it be a 50/50 of which lineage, or a merging of the two. I like the idea of this for the most part.
Nived 03-14-07, 03:02 AM	It does answer a few questions I had. Like if a male and female Kalashtar had a kid would it be a 50/50 of which lineage, or a merging of the two. I like the idea of this for the most part. If you take a Human Male and Kalashtar Female and they have a son, the son is human. If you take a Human Male and Kalashtar Female and they have a daughter, the daughter is kalashtar. If you take a Kalashtar Male and Human Female and they have a son, the son is kalashtar. If you take a Kalashtar Male and Human Female and they have a daughter, the daughter is human. If you take a Kalashtar Male and Kalashtar Female and they have a son, the son is kalashtar... of the father's line. If you take a Kalashtar Male and Kalashtar Female and they have a daughter, the daughter is kalashtar... of the mother's line.
Bluebrush 03-14-07, 06:42 AM	Interestingly enough, it also seems to be the case that some lineages have spirits of the opposite gender to their hosts.
Kid SixXx 03-14-07, 07:06 AM	Interestingly enough, it also seems to be the case that some lineages have spirits of the opposite gender to their hosts. I don't have my book in front of me, but Taratai is usually associated as a female but her first host was male, correct?
Bluebrush 03-14-07, 12:01 PM	That's the ticket.
DragoonDarkfire 03-14-07, 08:44 PM	Then would Tatari's host be reasonable to say "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body"?
Faithful_One 03-14-07, 09:13 PM	Then would Tatari's host be reasonable to say "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body"? :rofl: So does Tatari like other women? :D
Bluebrush 03-14-07, 09:18 PM	You could say that, but the approach Keith suggested (and what is probably easiest to go with ) is that it could mean Taratai's hosts were somewhat more femenine than the norm but still male. Then again, as the old saying goes, Men are from Eberron, and Quori are from a shapable landscape of pure dreamstuff with a nightmarish embodiment of planar energy at the centre. Basically when you've already got a bizzare alien in your soul, having it be of the opposite gender isn't going to make you much weirder. In fact it may be totally irrelevant given the differences between what constitutes male and female for humans and quori. Though this also makes me wonder what would happen if you had a transgendered Kalashtar. Does the Quori spirit follow the sex or the gender?
mhacdebhandia 03-14-07, 09:36 PM	Now this is based off what I've read. Who knows what was up with the first generation kalashtar. Maybe they were uber-beings and every child they created was capable of possessing a spiritual lineage. But based on my reading it seem that all the kalashtar of a specific spiritual lineage should be of the same sex. I'm not sure what you're trying to ask. Using Kashtai as an example, every member of its kalashtar lineage is female - Luunkashtai in Secrets of Sarlona, for instance, is the kalashtar sister of Chanaakar, a human man and the current Speaker of the Word. So we know that the human monk who first merged with Kashtai was a woman, and every daughter she had was a kalashtar of Kashtai's lineage. It's quite possible that the monks who originally volunteered to merge with the rebel quori had children with each other, and if so all of those children would have been kalashtar from birth. Even if, say, the first woman to host Kashtai had given birth to children fathered by a human man, however, all of her daughters would still be kalashtar - and she must have had at least one. ;)
Kid SixXx 03-15-07, 09:39 AM	:rofl: So does Tatari like other women? :D If the fluff is accurate, Taratai is a Kalaraq Quori and possibly one of the more powerful members of that caste, so she could be anywhere from a CR15 to a CR20 if she were up and swinging at people instead of lying in state during her dream exile. If that's the case then I've got no problems with her liking whomever she wants to. :)
ChimericalWolf 03-15-07, 10:38 AM	I am of the opinion that the Quori have no gender. They do not breed, have no mechanical difference based on sex that we can see, so I am of the view that the Quori are only refered to as him or her because of a flaw in the english language, the lack of a third-person-genderless pronoun. (Note that I am not an english student, and am probably wrong from a learned standpoint, but you get what I'm saying.) While I'm sure that the mortals of Eberron projected genders on the Quori spirits based on charactaristics, I would say that the Quori themselves would not apply those labels to themselves. This might lead to such things as Quor not having gendered pronouns, which I think would be a nice touch.
DreamChaser 03-17-07, 11:37 PM	I am of the opinion that the Quori have no gender. They do not breed, have no mechanical difference based on sex that we can see, so I am of the view that the Quori are only refered to as him or her because of a flaw in the english language, the lack of a third-person-genderless pronoun. (Note that I am not an english student, and am probably wrong from a learned standpoint, but you get what I'm saying.) While I'm sure that the mortals of Eberron projected genders on the Quori spirits based on charactaristics, I would say that the Quori themselves would not apply those labels to themselves. This might lead to such things as Quor not having gendered pronouns, which I think would be a nice touch. English does have a 3rd person genderless pronoun: IT. This is an object pronoun however and is not comfortably applied to sentient beings by most people. Now the issue of quori gender and sex is an interesting one; they cannot reproduce so "sex" is really irrelevant. Sex is nothing more than a function of biology, which is alien in the case of the quori. Gender is another factor. Just as the warforged adopt (or come into being with) gendered personalities, it is possible that the quori are similar. Moreover, the quori are from a realm partially shaped by dreaming mortals, all of whom possess sex / gender and these influences could easily shape the quori, even newly formed ones (in that at some basic level, according to the Dreaming Dark's plan, the dreams of mortals have an effect on the nature of the core of the Dal Quor and the cycles that occur there.). On the other hand, because the history of the kalashtar was written by the kalashar and their human families, it is safe to say that their point of view is what determined the ascribed gender of the quori spirit. Perhaps it was more comfortable for Taratai's host to imagine himself bonding with a female entity than a male one (he thought of it more as a marriage) while others may have felt more at ease imagining their spirit being of the same sex (more like conjoined twins). DC
mhacdebhandia 03-18-07, 07:52 PM	I believe it's Keith who has said that, while the quori do not reproduce sexually, they do have gender. The same is also true of unique fiends in the Great Wheel cosmology of D&D, so I've been comfortable with it for a while. ;) It does make some sense that creatures from the realm of dreams would be gendered like the mortals whose minds travel there at night.
Kid SixXx 03-19-07, 07:57 AM	I believe it's Keith who has said that, while the quori do not reproduce sexually, they do have gender. Quori have gender, but don't reproduce at all. Quori spirits are effectively immortal. The number of Quori always stays constant & if one dies, another emerges from the center of Dal Quor.
DragoonDarkfire 03-19-07, 11:56 AM	I believe it's Keith who has said that, while the quori do not reproduce sexually, they do have gender. actually he said Quori have genders like Warforged have genders. Some are more masculine or femminen then others but as a whole they don't really give a **** what "gender" is or what it means.
mhacdebhandia 03-20-07, 05:38 PM	Yeah, personality types which roughly correlate to gender.