Kalashtar/Changeling Marriage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kalashtar/Changeling Marriage [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Essex
08-13-07, 07:41 PM When a Changeling and a non-Changeling have a child there is a fifty percent chance that the Child is a Changeling.

When a Kalashtar and a non-Kalashtar have a child then the child is a Kalashtar if it is of the same gender as the Kalashtar parent.

Changelings do not develop a recognisable gender until puberty.

If a Changeling and a Kalashtar have children then what will happen?

I can foresee that up to half of the children are likely to be Kalashtar. If the child is a Changeling then can you assume that at puberty they'll assume a gender that is the opposite of the Kalashtar parent? If the child isn't a Changeling and is of a gender opposite the Kalashtar parent then would they be Human (since both parent races have Human ancestry)? Can the child be both?

Having a Human character with two non-Human parents would make for an interesting character background.
The_Gimp
08-13-07, 07:49 PM Where did you take your infos? And why would they be able to reproduce... They're not even of the same race...!?
Essex
08-13-07, 07:59 PM Where did you take your infos? And why would they be able to reproduce... They're not even of the same race...!?

Races of Eberron gives information on Changeling reproduction on page 45. Changelings often reproduce with non-Changelings (Changelings are believed to be the product of crossbreeding between Humans and Dopplegangers). Page 67 indicates that Kalashtar are compatible with humans and I vaguely recall some reference to them being compatible with Half-Elves. Since Changelings can easily reproduce with other species and Kalashtar are capable of reproducing with at least one other species I'd say that there is a decent chance of the two species being able to reproduce with each other.
The White Sorcerer
08-13-07, 08:19 PM Changelings do not develop a recognisable gender until puberty.

You'll have to give me a page reference on that one.

Until then, I'd say the baby has the normal 50/50 chance of being a changeling. If it isn't, then it's either a kalashtar or a human, depending on gender.
Essex
08-13-07, 08:32 PM You'll have to give me a page reference on that one.

Until then, I'd say the baby has the normal 50/50 chance of being a changeling. If it isn't, then it's either a kalashtar or a human, depending on gender.

On page 45 with the rest of the Changeling info. "...a changeling does have a default gender that manifests in adolescense..."

The thing is that Changelings are born with their shapeshifting powers, but no gender. Kalashtar gain their powers at birth based on their gender.

If you're born as a genderless shapechanger then you're a Changeling.

If you assume a 50% chance for each parent's racial traits being dominant then 25% of the progeny will be Changelings, 25% will be Kalashtar, 25% will be neither and 25% will be both. Of course the interaction between the two species may not be that simple.

Furthermore, a child that takes after both parents may have some serious problems. What if the child manifests Kalashtar abilities at birth but assumes the wrong default gender at puberty? Will they loose their Kalashtar powers or just wind up with strange psychological issues? How would a Changeling who has never shown any Kalashtar powers react to hitting puberty, attaining the same default gender as their Kalashtar parent, and suddenly finding themselves unable to dream while strange alien thoughts seep into their mind?
The White Sorcerer
08-14-07, 04:57 AM If you assume a 50% chance for each parent's racial traits being dominant then 25% of the progeny will be Changelings, 25% will be Kalashtar, 25% will be neither and 25% will be both.

I'd say the last option isn't possible. One can't be both changeling and kalashtar. If the child manifests kalashtar powers, then (s)he already has a gender.

I'd also say that changelings already have a default gender at birth, it just hasn't manifested yet.

I stand by my previous theory: 50/50 chance of being kalashtar/changeling. If kalashtar and has the wrong gender (which will be apparent at birth), the child is a human.
Gurv
08-14-07, 07:57 AM I stand by my previous theory: 50/50 chance of being kalashtar/changeling. If kalashtar and has the wrong gender (which will be apparent at birth), the child is a human.
As far as I know, the "rules" support this answer.

Essentially, kalashtar are "biologically" human. If they produce a human offspring, and that child is the same sex as the kalashtar parent, then the child also inherits the spirit of the parent, which alters it into kalashtar.

A changling who has a child with another race has 50/50 chance of producing a changeling child, or a child of the other parent's race.

In the case of the kalashtar/changeling offspring, you would first determine race, then sex. If the race is changeling, then the child's sex is irrelevant...it is not kalashtar; it develops as normal for a changeling. If the race is human, then there is a 50/50 chance of it being a kalashtar: if it is the same sex as the parent, it is kalashtar.

So: changeling/kalashtar couples have a 50% chance of producing a changeling child, a 25% chance of producing a human child, and a 25% chance of producing a kalashtar child.
grifo
08-15-07, 12:04 PM So: changeling/kalashtar couples have a 50% chance of producing a changeling child, a 25% chance of producing a human child, and a 25% chance of producing a kalashtar child.

I don't like this idea, this are two special races reproducing, the offspring shouldn't be human.
I'd rule that if the child is the sex of the changeling parent - he's a changeling. If he's the sex of the kalashtar parent - he's a kalashtar.
This way it's both true to the rules, and makes sense.
Essex
08-16-07, 10:19 AM I don't like this idea, this are two special races reproducing, the offspring shouldn't be human.
I'd rule that if the child is the sex of the changeling parent - he's a changeling. If he's the sex of the kalashtar parent - he's a kalashtar.
This way it's both true to the rules, and makes sense.

There are two problems with this.

First, as noted above, Changelings do not assume a default gender until puberty.

Second, although adult Changelings have a default gender, they can assume either gender and can reproduce in either gender. A female Changeling can father a child. A male Changeling can become pregnant.
Rechan
08-16-07, 04:20 PM Furthermore, a child that takes after both parents may have some serious problems. What if the child manifests Kalashtar abilities at birth but assumes the wrong default gender at puberty? Will they loose their Kalashtar powers or just wind up with strange psychological issues? How would a Changeling who has never shown any Kalashtar powers react to hitting puberty, attaining the same default gender as their Kalashtar parent, and suddenly finding themselves unable to dream while strange alien thoughts seep into their mind?

I know one thing: That kid is going to be psionic.

Changelings have a dormant potential for psionics. They have a substitution level for Egoists, and their doppelganger ancestors can read thoughts. Kalasthar have a much more direct tie with psionics. For lack of a better terminology, I shall use biology: the psionic gene in Changelings are likely a recessive, and with Kalasthar it's possibly recessive with a human child or dominant with a kalasthar child, so that kid's going to have mental powers. (Note I'm not actually saying kalasthar spirits and psionics are reduced to genetic concepts, but it gets the idea across).

I wouldn't necessarily say that the child is going to have emotional issues, unless those issues are inheritable. The mere fact that Dad was a changeling shouldn't mess with the kid's mind.
OctaviusIII
08-16-07, 08:24 PM On page 45 with the rest of the Changeling info. "...a changeling does have a default gender that manifests in adolescense..."

Without reading the context, it sounds like the child has a gender at birth, but it's simply not manifested until adolescence. So, before adolescence the child is genderless but will become a gender which could be read... if Eberron had DNA testing. Just wanted to throw that into the mix.
ZimTsu
08-16-07, 11:03 PM If DNA has any relevance, then they can't reproduce. Kalashtar may be almost human, but their DNA is slightly changed. Changelings are half human, but the DNA should be sufficiently different from kalashtar DNA to make reproduction impossible. But then, humans and elfs can have babies, so DNA must be irrelevant.
Probably kalashtar and changeling parents will just produce humans with psionic powers and a relatively minor ability to alter their facial features.
Darakhoranon
08-17-07, 07:11 AM I stand with The White Sorcerer in this. His (her/its?!?) suggestions makes sense - in my eyes at least.
50% chance for being a changeling - that´s the probability of a changeling having a changeling child (with another race).
So the other 50% are the chance for NOT being a changeling, in other words, that the Kalashtar´s genes are dominant - and half of a Kalashtar´s children are also Kalashtar (depending on gender).
This breaks down to what The White Sorcerer said. True, two NON-humans having a HUMAN child is a bit weird, but then, we´re not really talking about "normal" beings or circumstances, are we?
N3palm
08-17-07, 08:48 AM I stand with The White Sorcerer in this. His (her/its?!?) suggestions makes sense - in my eyes at least.
50% chance for being a changeling - that´s the probability of a changeling having a changeling child (with another race).
So the other 50% are the chance for NOT being a changeling, in other words, that the Kalashtar´s genes are dominant - and half of a Kalashtar´s children are also Kalashtar (depending on gender).
This breaks down to what The White Sorcerer said. True, two NON-humans having a HUMAN child is a bit weird, but then, we´re not really talking about "normal" beings or circumstances, are we?

Well in this case I don't think its really that wierd, Kalashtar look like humans (good looking ones, but still identical to humans) their inside (mind) is just different.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Essex 08-13-07, 07:41 PM	When a Changeling and a non-Changeling have a child there is a fifty percent chance that the Child is a Changeling. When a Kalashtar and a non-Kalashtar have a child then the child is a Kalashtar if it is of the same gender as the Kalashtar parent. Changelings do not develop a recognisable gender until puberty. If a Changeling and a Kalashtar have children then what will happen? I can foresee that up to half of the children are likely to be Kalashtar. If the child is a Changeling then can you assume that at puberty they'll assume a gender that is the opposite of the Kalashtar parent? If the child isn't a Changeling and is of a gender opposite the Kalashtar parent then would they be Human (since both parent races have Human ancestry)? Can the child be both? Having a Human character with two non-Human parents would make for an interesting character background.
The_Gimp 08-13-07, 07:49 PM	Where did you take your infos? And why would they be able to reproduce... They're not even of the same race...!?
Essex 08-13-07, 07:59 PM	Where did you take your infos? And why would they be able to reproduce... They're not even of the same race...!? Races of Eberron gives information on Changeling reproduction on page 45. Changelings often reproduce with non-Changelings (Changelings are believed to be the product of crossbreeding between Humans and Dopplegangers). Page 67 indicates that Kalashtar are compatible with humans and I vaguely recall some reference to them being compatible with Half-Elves. Since Changelings can easily reproduce with other species and Kalashtar are capable of reproducing with at least one other species I'd say that there is a decent chance of the two species being able to reproduce with each other.
The White Sorcerer 08-13-07, 08:19 PM	Changelings do not develop a recognisable gender until puberty. You'll have to give me a page reference on that one. Until then, I'd say the baby has the normal 50/50 chance of being a changeling. If it isn't, then it's either a kalashtar or a human, depending on gender.
Essex 08-13-07, 08:32 PM	You'll have to give me a page reference on that one. Until then, I'd say the baby has the normal 50/50 chance of being a changeling. If it isn't, then it's either a kalashtar or a human, depending on gender. On page 45 with the rest of the Changeling info. "...a changeling does have a default gender that manifests in adolescense..." The thing is that Changelings are born with their shapeshifting powers, but no gender. Kalashtar gain their powers at birth based on their gender. If you're born as a genderless shapechanger then you're a Changeling. If you assume a 50% chance for each parent's racial traits being dominant then 25% of the progeny will be Changelings, 25% will be Kalashtar, 25% will be neither and 25% will be both. Of course the interaction between the two species may not be that simple. Furthermore, a child that takes after both parents may have some serious problems. What if the child manifests Kalashtar abilities at birth but assumes the wrong default gender at puberty? Will they loose their Kalashtar powers or just wind up with strange psychological issues? How would a Changeling who has never shown any Kalashtar powers react to hitting puberty, attaining the same default gender as their Kalashtar parent, and suddenly finding themselves unable to dream while strange alien thoughts seep into their mind?
The White Sorcerer 08-14-07, 04:57 AM	If you assume a 50% chance for each parent's racial traits being dominant then 25% of the progeny will be Changelings, 25% will be Kalashtar, 25% will be neither and 25% will be both. I'd say the last option isn't possible. One can't be both changeling and kalashtar. If the child manifests kalashtar powers, then (s)he already has a gender. I'd also say that changelings already have a default gender at birth, it just hasn't manifested yet. I stand by my previous theory: 50/50 chance of being kalashtar/changeling. If kalashtar and has the wrong gender (which will be apparent at birth), the child is a human.
Gurv 08-14-07, 07:57 AM	I stand by my previous theory: 50/50 chance of being kalashtar/changeling. If kalashtar and has the wrong gender (which will be apparent at birth), the child is a human. As far as I know, the "rules" support this answer. Essentially, kalashtar are "biologically" human. If they produce a human offspring, and that child is the same sex as the kalashtar parent, then the child also inherits the spirit of the parent, which alters it into kalashtar. A changling who has a child with another race has 50/50 chance of producing a changeling child, or a child of the other parent's race. In the case of the kalashtar/changeling offspring, you would first determine race, then sex. If the race is changeling, then the child's sex is irrelevant...it is not kalashtar; it develops as normal for a changeling. If the race is human, then there is a 50/50 chance of it being a kalashtar: if it is the same sex as the parent, it is kalashtar. So: changeling/kalashtar couples have a 50% chance of producing a changeling child, a 25% chance of producing a human child, and a 25% chance of producing a kalashtar child.
grifo 08-15-07, 12:04 PM	So: changeling/kalashtar couples have a 50% chance of producing a changeling child, a 25% chance of producing a human child, and a 25% chance of producing a kalashtar child. I don't like this idea, this are two special races reproducing, the offspring shouldn't be human. I'd rule that if the child is the sex of the changeling parent - he's a changeling. If he's the sex of the kalashtar parent - he's a kalashtar. This way it's both true to the rules, and makes sense.
Essex 08-16-07, 10:19 AM	I don't like this idea, this are two special races reproducing, the offspring shouldn't be human. I'd rule that if the child is the sex of the changeling parent - he's a changeling. If he's the sex of the kalashtar parent - he's a kalashtar. This way it's both true to the rules, and makes sense. There are two problems with this. First, as noted above, Changelings do not assume a default gender until puberty. Second, although adult Changelings have a default gender, they can assume either gender and can reproduce in either gender. A female Changeling can father a child. A male Changeling can become pregnant.
Rechan 08-16-07, 04:20 PM	Furthermore, a child that takes after both parents may have some serious problems. What if the child manifests Kalashtar abilities at birth but assumes the wrong default gender at puberty? Will they loose their Kalashtar powers or just wind up with strange psychological issues? How would a Changeling who has never shown any Kalashtar powers react to hitting puberty, attaining the same default gender as their Kalashtar parent, and suddenly finding themselves unable to dream while strange alien thoughts seep into their mind? I know one thing: That kid is going to be psionic. Changelings have a dormant potential for psionics. They have a substitution level for Egoists, and their doppelganger ancestors can read thoughts. Kalasthar have a much more direct tie with psionics. For lack of a better terminology, I shall use biology: the psionic gene in Changelings are likely a recessive, and with Kalasthar it's possibly recessive with a human child or dominant with a kalasthar child, so that kid's going to have mental powers. (Note I'm not actually saying kalasthar spirits and psionics are reduced to genetic concepts, but it gets the idea across). I wouldn't necessarily say that the child is going to have emotional issues, unless those issues are inheritable. The mere fact that Dad was a changeling shouldn't mess with the kid's mind.
OctaviusIII 08-16-07, 08:24 PM	On page 45 with the rest of the Changeling info. "...a changeling does have a default gender that manifests in adolescense..." Without reading the context, it sounds like the child has a gender at birth, but it's simply not manifested until adolescence. So, before adolescence the child is genderless but will become a gender which could be read... if Eberron had DNA testing. Just wanted to throw that into the mix.
ZimTsu 08-16-07, 11:03 PM	If DNA has any relevance, then they can't reproduce. Kalashtar may be almost human, but their DNA is slightly changed. Changelings are half human, but the DNA should be sufficiently different from kalashtar DNA to make reproduction impossible. But then, humans and elfs can have babies, so DNA must be irrelevant. Probably kalashtar and changeling parents will just produce humans with psionic powers and a relatively minor ability to alter their facial features.
Darakhoranon 08-17-07, 07:11 AM	I stand with The White Sorcerer in this. His (her/its?!?) suggestions makes sense - in my eyes at least. 50% chance for being a changeling - that´s the probability of a changeling having a changeling child (with another race). So the other 50% are the chance for NOT being a changeling, in other words, that the Kalashtar´s genes are dominant - and half of a Kalashtar´s children are also Kalashtar (depending on gender). This breaks down to what The White Sorcerer said. True, two NON-humans having a HUMAN child is a bit weird, but then, we´re not really talking about "normal" beings or circumstances, are we?
N3palm 08-17-07, 08:48 AM	I stand with The White Sorcerer in this. His (her/its?!?) suggestions makes sense - in my eyes at least. 50% chance for being a changeling - that´s the probability of a changeling having a changeling child (with another race). So the other 50% are the chance for NOT being a changeling, in other words, that the Kalashtar´s genes are dominant - and half of a Kalashtar´s children are also Kalashtar (depending on gender). This breaks down to what The White Sorcerer said. True, two NON-humans having a HUMAN child is a bit weird, but then, we´re not really talking about "normal" beings or circumstances, are we? Well in this case I don't think its really that wierd, Kalashtar look like humans (good looking ones, but still identical to humans) their inside (mind) is just different.