Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Subtle Knife 12-30-06, 06:20 PM	Hello, all! I've newly formulated a prestige class for the artificer/arcane spellcaster class (based somewhat on the Ultimate Magus PrC), and would like to post the details. Could someone briefly describe for me how to post tables in these forums? I'd really like some input! Thanks SK
ieattrollsforbreakfast 12-30-06, 08:16 PM	The best way is probably to use the tags. First, construct your table in Notepad or a similar program, and paste it in with the tags. For example: BAB Fort Ref +1 +0 +2 +2 +0 +3 +3 +1 +3
Subtle Knife 12-30-06, 08:16 PM	Nevermind, a different approach! Please let me know what you think - be critical! (edited: 06/01/2007 - added Arcanum Homonculi and Retain Essence - SK) (edited: 11/01/2007 - changed bonus feat progression - SK) Master Arcanist “There is little difference between wizardly spellcasting and artifice. Both artificers and wizards are capable of placing complex magical matrices within items. One may derived directly from the other – as such, it is not terribly difficult to study both at the same time.” - Hyrim d’Cannith, Master Arcanist. It is difficult to separate the study of arcane magic from the study of the infusion of magic into the mystical matrices employed in the crafting of magic items. A Master Arcanist is one who studies both arcane spellcasting and the imbuing of infusions, two pursuits that are naturally tied together. House Cannith has in the past attempted to monopolize on such pursuits, and is acutely interested in any who appear to attain power in both fields; most Dragonmarked houses employ at least a few Master Arcanists in furthering their research agendas. Entry Requirements Infusions: Ability to imbue 2nd-level infusions Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells Skills: 9 ranks in Spellcraft, 9 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), 9 ranks in Use Magic Device, 6 ranks in any one craft skill Feats: Any one metamagic feat Special: Must be able to obtain a familiar Becoming a Master Arcanist Becoming a Master Arcanist requires several levels in the Artificer class, as well as several class levels in an arcane spellcasting class. The academic requirements are also quite difficult to attain, making Master Arcanists uncommon. Wizards are most common, followed (in order) by Sorcerors and Bards; House Cannith is said to have trained a cadre of Duskblades in this path, who they use as an elite mystical strike force (when needs for such arise). The Master Arcanist Hit Die: d4 Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spellcasting 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Artificer Knowledge +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class Craft Reserve Item Creation Arcanum Homonculi 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 +1 level of existing infusion-casting class and +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Bonus Feat +1 level of existing infusion-casting class and +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Retain Essence +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 +1 level of existing infusion-casting class and +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Bonus Feat +1 level of existing infusion-casting class and +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 +1 level of existing infusion-casting class and +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Bonus Feat +1 level of existing infusion-casting class and +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 +1 level of existing infusion-casting class and +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level): Appraise, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Knowledge (All, taken separately), Profession, Search, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device. Class Features The following class features reflect intensive study of magic in many forms. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Master Arcanists gain no proficiency in any weapons or armor. Spell per Day: At all levels, a Master Arcanist who previously had levels in an arcane spellcasting class gains new spells per day as if you had also gained a level in that class. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would normally gain. This essentially means that you add one level to your levels in one other spellcasting class, then determine spells per day and caster level accordingly. Additionally, at all levels except 1st, 4th and 7th, a master arcanist who previously had levels in an infusion-casting class gains new infusions per day as if you had also gained a level in that class. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would normally gain. This essentially means that you add one level to your levels in one other spellcasting class, then determine spells per day and caster level accordingly. Artificer Knowledge: For the purposes of the artificer knowledge class feature, all levels as a Master Arcanist count as levels in the Artificer class. Craft Reserve: For the purposes of the craft reserve class feature, all levels as a Master Arcanist count as levels in the Artificer class. Item Creation: For the purposes of meeting prerequisites for item creation (caster levels, etc.), all levels as a Master Arcanist count as levels in the Artificer class. Arcanum Homonculi: At 1st level, you gain the Craft Homonculus Special ability, as described for the Artificer. You may elect to dismiss your current familiar (without penalty) and take one of your homunculi as a familiar. In al respects, this homunculus is now treated as a familiar (with respect to determining HD, hp, saves, attacks, and skills). Your Master Arcanist class level stack with your arcane spellcasting level for the purposes of determining the abilities of the homunculus familiar (natural armor adjustment, Intelligence, and special abilities). You may not improve the hit dice of this homunculus as you would another homunculus; you may, however, attribute additional special abilities to the familiar homunculus by taking the Improved Familiar feat. Natural armor bonuses gained through this feat do not stack with those gained as a familiar. Retain Essence – At 4th level, the Master Arcanist gains the Retain Essence ability as detailed in the description on Artificers (Eberron Campaign Setting 32) Bonus Feats: At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, Master Arcanists can select one bonus feat from the following: Item crafting feats, metamagic feats, attune magic weapon, craft construct, exceptional artisan, extra rings, extraordinary artisan, legendary artisan, metamagic spell trigger, magic device attunement, rapid infusion, or wand mastery. The character must meet the prerequisites for the selected feats.
Subtle Knife 12-30-06, 08:27 PM	I've tried this class out (human artificer 3, wizard 3, master arcanist 9, abjurant champion 5 with 2 flaws); at 20th level, this character has the following: BAB 12, Wizard ECL 17, Artificer ECL 10, Craft reserve of 500, 10 feats (aside from those specified by the classes), and 5 bonus feats from those specified by the master arcanist class. An alternate build without the Abjurant Champion and including more artificer levels would produce Wizard ECL 12 and Artificer ECL 15. Let me know if the balance is off. In particular, I'm uncertain of the distribution of bonus feats; I based it on the distribution of abilities and similar feats in the Ultimate Magus and Artificer classes. Ultimate Magi recieve bonus feats or special abilities atall levels; Artificers receive an average of one ability per level up to level 15 (actually a little more than one per level). SK
The White Sorcerer 12-31-06, 06:05 AM	Your table hurts my eyes...:weep:
Subtle Knife 12-31-06, 10:41 AM	Thank you for the suggestion! Tabulated appropriately! Any opinions on the presitige class itself? SK
The White Sorcerer 12-31-06, 10:59 AM	I'd remove Cannith Forgecraft from the list of bonus feats, since artificers can't get it as a bonus feat.
Subtle Knife 12-31-06, 11:07 AM	Fair enough, done! SK
valkeriesmurf 12-31-06, 01:57 PM	This class feels like it is lacking something still. Balance wise for what is here, it is good. I am happy to see a PrC that allows for the gaining of infusion levels and stacking of Artificer Knowledge and Craft Reserve. What it feels like to me, is I look at this class and I don't see any reason to take it that can't be accomplished by just continuing to take levels in Wizard and Artificer. I can see the benefits with the increased infusion and caster levels for the Spells per Day. But there's just a little something extra lacking that other prestige classes give or is obvious at a glance for why this is a great class. I don't see that extra little oomph here. Your chart should show at what levels the arcane and infusions are gained, that might help.
Subtle Knife 12-31-06, 02:12 PM	This class feels like it is lacking something still. Balance wise for what is here, it is good. I am happy to see a PrC that allows for the gaining of infusion levels and stacking of Artificer Knowledge and Craft Reserve. What it feels like to me, is I look at this class and I don't see any reason to take it that can't be accomplished by just continuing to take levels in Wizard and Artificer. I can see the benefits with the increased infusion and caster levels for the Spells per Day. But there's just a little something extra lacking that other prestige classes give or is obvious at a glance for why this is a great class. I don't see that extra little oomph here. Your chart should show at what levels the arcane and infusions are gained, that might help. I'm glad to hear that you think it balanced! As for spells and infusions, those are included in the chart, you just need to pan it to the right. SK
valkeriesmurf 01-01-07, 01:47 AM	Panning to the right, I see the Spells/Infusions per day increase. As for that extra oomph you need, with the way this PrC reads and feels, adding in an Improved Etched Schema at the 8-10th levels? On any one of those levels, like 10th for certian. And say at a lower level of the PrC, you get Etch Schema as per MoE page 46 regardless of level. This would show where the Master Arcanist has really come to understand the magic inherent in making magic items. Where Etch Schemas allows for the creation of Minor Schemas, the Improved Etch Schema would allow for creating a major schema. The creation of a Major Schema would allow for the creation of up to 9th level Spells. IMO, it would bridge the gap between the Minor Schemas and those Artifact Schema floating around that a DM might toss out in an adventures, such as those found in the first trilogy of Modules. And only Master Arcanists are able to make Major Schemas. This might be that special extra oomph needed to really make this PrC stand out as one to pursue and take.
Subtle Knife 01-01-07, 09:01 PM	Panning to the right, I see the Spells/Infusions per day increase. As for that extra oomph you need, with the way this PrC reads and feels, adding in an Improved Etched Schema at the 8-10th levels? On any one of those levels, like 10th for certian. And say at a lower level of the PrC, you get Etch Schema as per MoE page 46 regardless of level. This would show where the Master Arcanist has really come to understand the magic inherent in making magic items. Where Etch Schemas allows for the creation of Minor Schemas, the Improved Etch Schema would allow for creating a major schema. The creation of a Major Schema would allow for the creation of up to 9th level Spells. IMO, it would bridge the gap between the Minor Schemas and those Artifact Schema floating around that a DM might toss out in an adventures, such as those found in the first trilogy of Modules. And only Master Arcanists are able to make Major Schemas. This might be that special extra oomph needed to really make this PrC stand out as one to pursue and take. Are you suggesting these abilities in addition to those as listed, or to replace some; if so, what should be replaced? SK
valkeriesmurf 01-01-07, 10:43 PM	I would put Etch Schema at either 2nd or 3rd level. If at second, it replaces the bonus feat. As for Improved Etch Schema I would place that at 10th level. Definently replacing the bonus feat.
Subtle Knife 01-03-07, 08:07 AM	I'm concerned about two aspects of this change: 1) That it places undue focus of schemata as magic items to be crafted, limiting the characters' options 2) That the routine production of high-level schemas might become overpowering (hmmmm... Wish Schema....); if they were intended to become routine items, WOTC probably would have included them in one of their myriad Eberron publications. For similar reasons why Wands are limited to 4th level spells. Thoughts, anyone? SK
Subtle Knife 01-05-07, 07:00 PM	No other thoughts? SK
Subtle Knife 01-06-07, 12:28 PM	I have two other ideas: 1) Would it be too much to replace the first level bonus feat with Craft Homonculus, with the corrolary that this replaces any Familiar gained previously? 2) Would it be too much to replace the second level bonus feat with the Retain Essence ability of the Artificer? Let me know! SK
The White Sorcerer 01-06-07, 01:21 PM	Hmm... You just sparked an idea in my head. A familiar homunculus. Kinda like an arcane hierophant gains the familiar companion (animal companion with familiar abilities). If you decide to use this, you should make summon familiar and craft homunculus requirements for entry.
Gonf 01-06-07, 02:09 PM	Actually with Improved Familiar feat from the DMG you can get a Homunculus Familiar at 7th level, so you actually would not be gaining anything particularly impressive. However if you gave improved familiar (homunculus) as a bonus feat and gave the Improved Homunculus feat progression for the familiar only as a class ability, increasing the hit dice as normal for a familiar without cost... well that might be too powerful, but I'm not sure.
Subtle Knife 01-06-07, 03:13 PM	I like the idea of the homonculus familiar, and have updated the class description to include this aspect and the Retain Essence. Any issues? SK
Gonf 01-07-07, 12:44 PM	For the prerequisites I would recommend changing the wording from Special: Must have an arcane familiar to Special: Must be able to obtain a familiar. After reading about familiars and how callus it is to dismiss them, my characters tend to avoid obtaining familiars until they am sure about what they want, as to avoid causing 'harm' to cute fuzzy critters.
Subtle Knife 01-07-07, 04:42 PM	Thanks! Edited accordingly! SK
aelryinth 01-08-07, 07:53 PM	hmm. Advancing bonus feats, craft reserve and infusions with spells seems to me to be too powerful. I believe the arcane heirophant only advances wildshaping, for instance. I don't think ANY of the dual class casters get bonus feats. If you truly want to reflect those classes, I'm afraid that you are going to have to pick ONE aspect of the class and stick with it. No bonus feats. So, he probably gets to keep his reserve, and progress his infusions...but that's it. Otherwise, I'd just award him a listed item creation feat at specific levels, probably at 5 and 10, just like a wizard. ===Aelryinth
Subtle Knife 01-08-07, 09:33 PM	hmm. Advancing bonus feats, craft reserve and infusions with spells seems to me to be too powerful. I believe the arcane heirophant only advances wildshaping, for instance. I don't think ANY of the dual class casters get bonus feats. If you truly want to reflect those classes, I'm afraid that you are going to have to pick ONE aspect of the class and stick with it. No bonus feats. So, he probably gets to keep his reserve, and progress his infusions...but that's it. Otherwise, I'd just award him a listed item creation feat at specific levels, probably at 5 and 10, just like a wizard. ===Aelryinth If you have a peek at the Ultimate Magus Prc (Complete Mage, pp77-81), you'll find that they recieve abilities and feats at all class levels. I based the progression of the class loosely on that, including a staggered loss of artificer infusions at several levels. Not only that, but their bonus feats are pretty restricted. Perhaps if they only gained bonus 4 feats (levels 3, 5, 7, 9)? SK
Subtle Knife 01-10-07, 05:46 PM	No thoughts, anyone? SK
valkeriesmurf 01-10-07, 09:53 PM	While I'm still partial to swiping this and putting in the class specials at the levels I think it should be or have, this does look good now.
Gonf 01-10-07, 11:36 PM	While I do enjoy special abilities for most prestige classes, I think that the less you specialize with this class the better. The best aspect of both the wizard and artificer is how customizable they are, I think it would be a mistake to try to make this class too focused on any one aspect. I would however love to see some more flavor text and how you think this class would fit into the Eberron World. Still, I think that this is excellent work, good job.
Subtle Knife 01-11-07, 08:16 AM	Cool! I'll cook up some flavor shortly! The feat progression has been edited from even-numbered levels to those divisible by three! SK
Gonf 01-16-07, 01:40 PM	I like the new feat progression, the previous progression felt too powerful. However this post is also serving as a bump.
Subtle Knife 05-18-07, 11:56 AM	:bump: Any further thoughts? SK
DM_Dracophile 06-12-07, 07:45 PM	I think.... Wow :D Now if I could only find a similar class for my Beguiler/Artificer *rubs hands together wickedly*
Subtle Knife 06-12-07, 09:02 PM	It could be done - you only need to take the "Obtain Familiar" Feat from Complete Arcane. SK
The White Sorcerer 06-13-07, 10:15 PM	Just noticed something... Actually with Improved Familiar feat from the DMG you can get a Homunculus Familiar at 7th level Only if you're undead.