On Warforged Bodies [Archive] - Wizards Community

On Warforged Bodies [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Meikle_641
06-01-07, 05:29 PM Now, a friend of mine in my gaming group noticed something rather odd about the whole Warforged x Body feats when I mentioned the XPH feat "Hidden Talent". Now, what we noticed is is, much like Hidden Talent's odd 1st level prerequisite (unlike Wild Talent) also applies to the Body feats. Now, that itself means little, but when you think about it, restricting the feats to 1st level doesn't really make sense. After all, according to flavour in either the ECS or RoE it mentions that some warforged end up upgrading from their stock composite armour, and besides, they already can spout spikes, generate traceries, and grow teeth, etc.

So, was this some weird oversight, is there a logic to this madness? As it stands, it makes little sense to restrict it to 1st level (Much like that Hidden Talent, grr). I may just be beating a dead horse, but this is my first time posting on the Eberron boards.

In any case, I look forward to some interesting responses.
Belabras
06-01-07, 06:23 PM It's one of the balancing factors for the race. Conversely, they are immune to a LOT of things that give low to mid level characters headaches.
Meikle_641
06-01-07, 06:55 PM ...Balance? Seems kinda odd given that most creatures can upgrade or change armours as long as they have the cash. Of course, with WFs they'd be spending a feat to do so, and it's probably be stuck that way, unless they felt inclinded to change to something else, for some reason.

Isn't requiring the person to spend a feat to have more than +2 armour balance enough? And while we're on the subject, why should a person require a feat to NOT have an AC bonus? Yeah, you can cast spells without penalty, but you're as defenseless as a meatbag human.
Belabras
06-01-07, 06:58 PM Yes, Balance.

And as far as the feat that removes the Composite armor bonus - not only does it remove the spell failure problem, it allows said 'forged to wear regular armor should they choose to do so.

Why do they have to spend a feat for it? Because they are a new race with new balance mechanics, and this is one of them.
Edymnion
06-01-07, 09:34 PM ...Balance? Seems kinda odd given that most creatures can upgrade or change armours as long as they have the cash.You seem to be thinking that "upgrading" your armor means that you can get more AC out of it. Its not a matter of "I have standard composite plating, then I'll pick up Mithril Body at lvl 12..."

Upgrading your armor refers more to things like Improved Damage Reduction, Mithril Fluidity, etc.
DragonBringerX
06-01-07, 10:51 PM i always pictured it kinda like the Masterworked weapon rules...you can upgrade a weapon to masterworked. It must be made masterworked. Same applies to WF...you cant upgrade to mythral or Adamantine...you must be created that way. so...
just my:twocents:
Mort_Q
06-01-07, 11:32 PM But the whole idea of reforging an "important" weapon and making it masterwork has a nice cinematic twist to it... Doesn't change the rules at all... just the flavour. Why couldn't a warforged get altered after the fact?... I like that more than the stupid "grow spikes" crap. It should require feat(s) or be a PrC though.
the_Conqueror_Worm
06-02-07, 12:37 AM For my part, I'm inclined to say it makes perfect sense to keep a Warforged with the body type they choose at first level. Though it's not described in too much depth in the ECS, I've always understood the various feats to represent significantly different sorts of bodies, and they that amount to much more than just a few extra bits of plating here and there. That's certainly they way it's presented in this Dragonshard article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a), where Keith has gone so far as to give the three standard body types vastly different base weights and weight multipliers. Though I have not adopted these exact mechanics, this still leads me to conclude that the various types consist of significantly more than just a particular kind of armor bolted onto a generic core body. So, even stripped of his big metal plates, a Warforged constructed with an adamantine body would still face the same limit on his dexterity bonus because the joints of it's body were only built to be as flexible as those plates would have allowed. I am inclined to treat differing body feats among the warforged as somewhat analogous to the differing body shapes among human beings. While minor changes can be made, allowing for things like Improved Fortification, the changes necessary to completely change the body type would be so drastic that they would invariably prove fatal to the warforged undergoing them. Thus, a warforged couldn't simply switch between a mithral and an adamantine body any more than a human being could switch between the body a 5'1" 95 pound double-jointed waif and that of a 6'6" 350 pound mountain of muscle.
Cifer
06-02-07, 06:55 AM @Meikle
What need is there to change armor? Of course, putting it off might be useful for certain checks, but otherwise there is an ideal armor for every character based on its dexterity. Warforged simply have that ideal armor from level 1 onwards. Further, it is quite possible to enchant the plating, meaning it becomes better and better, even moreso than a regular one - when you cough up the money for an adamantine fullplate, the WF already has his body enchanted for 16500 gp.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meikle_641 06-01-07, 05:29 PM	Now, a friend of mine in my gaming group noticed something rather odd about the whole Warforged x Body feats when I mentioned the XPH feat "Hidden Talent". Now, what we noticed is is, much like Hidden Talent's odd 1st level prerequisite (unlike Wild Talent) also applies to the Body feats. Now, that itself means little, but when you think about it, restricting the feats to 1st level doesn't really make sense. After all, according to flavour in either the ECS or RoE it mentions that some warforged end up upgrading from their stock composite armour, and besides, they already can spout spikes, generate traceries, and grow teeth, etc. So, was this some weird oversight, is there a logic to this madness? As it stands, it makes little sense to restrict it to 1st level (Much like that Hidden Talent, grr). I may just be beating a dead horse, but this is my first time posting on the Eberron boards. In any case, I look forward to some interesting responses.
Belabras 06-01-07, 06:23 PM	It's one of the balancing factors for the race. Conversely, they are immune to a LOT of things that give low to mid level characters headaches.
Meikle_641 06-01-07, 06:55 PM	...Balance? Seems kinda odd given that most creatures can upgrade or change armours as long as they have the cash. Of course, with WFs they'd be spending a feat to do so, and it's probably be stuck that way, unless they felt inclinded to change to something else, for some reason. Isn't requiring the person to spend a feat to have more than +2 armour balance enough? And while we're on the subject, why should a person require a feat to NOT have an AC bonus? Yeah, you can cast spells without penalty, but you're as defenseless as a meatbag human.
Belabras 06-01-07, 06:58 PM	Yes, Balance. And as far as the feat that removes the Composite armor bonus - not only does it remove the spell failure problem, it allows said 'forged to wear regular armor should they choose to do so. Why do they have to spend a feat for it? Because they are a new race with new balance mechanics, and this is one of them.
Edymnion 06-01-07, 09:34 PM	...Balance? Seems kinda odd given that most creatures can upgrade or change armours as long as they have the cash.You seem to be thinking that "upgrading" your armor means that you can get more AC out of it. Its not a matter of "I have standard composite plating, then I'll pick up Mithril Body at lvl 12..." Upgrading your armor refers more to things like Improved Damage Reduction, Mithril Fluidity, etc.
DragonBringerX 06-01-07, 10:51 PM	i always pictured it kinda like the Masterworked weapon rules...you can upgrade a weapon to masterworked. It must be made masterworked. Same applies to WF...you cant upgrade to mythral or Adamantine...you must be created that way. so... just my:twocents:
Mort_Q 06-01-07, 11:32 PM	But the whole idea of reforging an "important" weapon and making it masterwork has a nice cinematic twist to it... Doesn't change the rules at all... just the flavour. Why couldn't a warforged get altered after the fact?... I like that more than the stupid "grow spikes" crap. It should require feat(s) or be a PrC though.
the_Conqueror_Worm 06-02-07, 12:37 AM	For my part, I'm inclined to say it makes perfect sense to keep a Warforged with the body type they choose at first level. Though it's not described in too much depth in the ECS, I've always understood the various feats to represent significantly different sorts of bodies, and they that amount to much more than just a few extra bits of plating here and there. That's certainly they way it's presented in this Dragonshard article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a), where Keith has gone so far as to give the three standard body types vastly different base weights and weight multipliers. Though I have not adopted these exact mechanics, this still leads me to conclude that the various types consist of significantly more than just a particular kind of armor bolted onto a generic core body. So, even stripped of his big metal plates, a Warforged constructed with an adamantine body would still face the same limit on his dexterity bonus because the joints of it's body were only built to be as flexible as those plates would have allowed. I am inclined to treat differing body feats among the warforged as somewhat analogous to the differing body shapes among human beings. While minor changes can be made, allowing for things like Improved Fortification, the changes necessary to completely change the body type would be so drastic that they would invariably prove fatal to the warforged undergoing them. Thus, a warforged couldn't simply switch between a mithral and an adamantine body any more than a human being could switch between the body a 5'1" 95 pound double-jointed waif and that of a 6'6" 350 pound mountain of muscle.
Cifer 06-02-07, 06:55 AM	@Meikle What need is there to change armor? Of course, putting it off might be useful for certain checks, but otherwise there is an ideal armor for every character based on its dexterity. Warforged simply have that ideal armor from level 1 onwards. Further, it is quite possible to enchant the plating, meaning it becomes better and better, even moreso than a regular one - when you cough up the money for an adamantine fullplate, the WF already has his body enchanted for 16500 gp.