Psiforged body feat, anyone care to explain? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Psiforged body feat, anyone care to explain? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Drag0nUL
08-14-07, 02:18 PM Well, in the description of the Psiforged body feat (MoE pag 51) it states that this feat must be taken at lvl.1. However apart from listing the psionic benefits, this body feat (unlike the others) does not list any AC bonus or check penalty. This has lead me to assume that it uses the stats for composite plating, but in the psiforged example (MoE pag 41), the psychic warrior seems to have both the Mithral Body (listed as a feat) and Psiforged Body (psycristal body as an SQ).

So I am a bit puzzled about how to use this feat.
Alex_
08-14-07, 02:36 PM Looks like a misprint. The example character didn't take the Psiforged Body feat at all.

Since -as you pointed out- it makes no mention of changes to AC bonuses, Armor Check penalties, or Arcane Spell Failure, I would think it works with whatever other kind of armor the Warforged has.

If you have a Warforged who has 2 feats at first level, they can select both Mithril Body/Unarmored Body/Darkwood Body/ect and Psiforged Body simultaneously.
TiwazTyrsfist
08-14-07, 02:41 PM Note that the book was writen by three different people working together.

Psiforged seems to have been used as Both a race AND a feat. This is undoubtedly the result of confusion do to repeatedly changing their mind about whether it should be a race of feat. Followed by a proofreading/editing slip up.

We've had a thread about this before, and IIRC the general consensus was A> to use it as a body feat not a race, and B> that Psiforged Body, unlike the other body feats, is non-exclusive, so if you are using Flaws for Feats (UA) you could take Psiforged Body AND Mithral Body OR Psiforged Body AND Adamantine Body OR Psiforged Body AND Darkwood Body.
Tolly7249
08-15-07, 01:23 AM The way I read it, I got the general impression that a Psiforged is a Warforged with psionic crystals incorporated into the mix of metals/wood/other stuff that a Warforged's body is constructed from. Therefore, if someone wants to take, for example, Psiforged Body and Mithral Body, then I'd let them... On the caveat that they had a really good in-character reason for such.
TheKeyofE
08-15-07, 08:24 AM Mmm...Psion with both Adamantine Body and Psiforged Body...*drool*
Kreistor2
08-16-07, 10:21 AM Well, technically, you can't take more than one Body feat at level 1, since you can only use general feats for body feats, and Warforged only get one at Level 1.

If your DM gives you more than one feat to start with, then he's allowing a situation the designers didn't design for. Their intention is only one Body feat at L1, and so only one of Adamantine, Mithral, and Psiforged should probably be allowed.

Since Psiforged does not mention replacing the normal composite, you retain all normal warforged characteristics.
Need_A_Life
08-18-07, 06:04 PM Playing with Flaws having an Adamantine Psiforged Psion is perfectly reasonable.

And it's not as though you're gamebreaking. You're giving up 10ft./round (unless you're a warforged scout, who lose NOTHING by taking Adamantine Body; though the race is weak, so that's cool).

I would use the normal composite plating stats with the added abilities of Psiforged Body. It just makes sense to me.
Drag0nUL
08-19-07, 09:05 AM I would use the normal composite plating stats with the added abilities of Psiforged Body. It just makes sense to me.

Still, that greatly limits the use of this feat to psions/wilders. Anything that expects to see melee combat (Psychic warriors, psi-gishes, ardents, divine mids etc.) would be much better with adamantine/mithral body.

However, considering this feat free (like creating a psiforged race) means there is absolutely no reason for a warforged not to take it. Even if you play a non-psionic class, some psionic feats are really nice.
AntiSean
08-20-07, 09:30 AM Playing with Flaws having an Adamantine Psiforged Psion is perfectly reasonable.

It's about as reasonable as playing an Adamantine & Mithral Body Warforged.

The Warforged Body feats were not designed with a Merits/Flaws system in mind; of course, if you're going to add the cheese of Flaws into your game, then you probably don't care about that anyway.
Drag0nUL
08-20-07, 10:54 AM It's about as reasonable as playing an Adamantine & Mithral Body Warforged.

I'll have to disagree here. Composite (default) Mithral, Adamantine or Ironwood Body feats specify the base material from which the warforged body is constructed (or at least the plating).

Psiforged body on the other hand, specifies the use of 'trace amounts of psionically resonant crystal'. It's not as if your entire body is made of cognizance crystals. And if you can insert this small amount of crystals in a composite plating, I really don't see any reason that you shouldn't be able to do so with adamantine/mithral/ironwood plating.

Flavor-wise, I think Psiforged body tends more toward the Tracery feats than actual body feats. Not that I like the way Tracery feats are implemented: 'OMG, I jsut reached level 3 and discovered I had cold iron in me all along'
TiwazTyrsfist
08-20-07, 05:04 PM It's about as reasonable as playing an Adamantine & Mithral Body Warforged.

The Warforged Body feats were not designed with a Merits/Flaws system in mind; of course, if you're going to add the cheese of Flaws into your game, then you probably don't care about that anyway.

I disagree. Taking Adamantine body, mithral body, ironwood body, or unarmored body feats together doesn't make sense, you're right there. It would, at best, be like wearing a suit of mithral armor over a suit of adamantine armor, or some similarly silly idea.
However, Psi-forged body leaves your normal composite plating intact. It inserts crystals into it, but the normal composite plating remains. Having that composite plating made of mithril, iron, ironwood, or adamantine should have no effect on whether you have psycrystals growing in your body, and vise versa.

I'll have to disagree here. Composite (default) Mithral, Adamantine or Ironwood Body feats specify the base material from which the warforged body is constructed (or at least the plating).

Psiforged body on the other hand, specifies the use of 'trace amounts of psionically resonant crystal'. It's not as if your entire body is made of cognizance crystals. And if you can insert this small amount of crystals in a composite plating, I really don't see any reason that you shouldn't be able to do so with adamantine/mithral/ironwood plating.

Flavor-wise, I think Psiforged body tends more toward the Tracery feats than actual body feats. Not that I like the way Tracery feats are implemented: 'OMG, I jsut reached level 3 and discovered I had cold iron in me all along'

We use an assumption of having had some work done. Tracing doesn't just appear. During down time, you go have a blacksmith/artificer install tracery.
Nightshade
08-20-07, 05:45 PM You can't have more than one body feat so having both Mithral and Psiforged OR Adamantine and Psiforged is not acceptable or reasonable.

The question then becomes, what is the AC bonus for Psiforged body feat? It is a minimum of +2 as that is the basics for Composite Plating. Yet it is extremely unlikely to be +5 as that is Mithral body feat. And as someone else said, why would you ever take Mithral if you can get Psiforged for the same AC bonus as well as Power Points and access to Psionic feats?

But I definitely think it has a level 1 feat requirement due to the PP bonus and due to the fact that ALL the other Body feats have a Level 1 Requirement. So, the AC bonus must be either +3 or +4. Frankly, I think that it is +3. Warforged bodies are Masterwork. Masterwork Studded Leather provides a +3 and no armor check penalty. Psions are proficient in No Armors. However, this just means that they can wear any armor without an armor check penalty and have no ill effects. Armors with an armor check penalty give them a negative modifier to their Attacks equal to the armor check penalty. If this armor is designed to be used with Psions, then it should not have an armor check penalty. This way, there's no confusion about armor proficiency, attack modifiers, and warforged bodies. If Psiforged were to have a +4 bonus, it would provide a -1 armor check penalty and it would engender confusion.

Now, I know people are going to say, "but they're always proficient in their bodies". Well, it does not say that anywhere in a rules section in Eberron or in Magic of Eberron. It says that in a purely FLUFF section on Warforged in Races of Eberron, which is notorious for its inaccuracies!!! It isn't even an Eberron book, it's a Races book. That is hardly definitive evidence.
AntiSean
08-20-07, 08:14 PM Psiforged body on the other hand, specifies the use of 'trace amounts of psionically resonant crystal'. It's not as if your entire body is made of cognizance crystals. And if you can insert this small amount of crystals in a composite plating, I really don't see any reason that you shouldn't be able to do so with adamantine/mithral/ironwood plating.

'trace amounts' is a rather narrow reading of the flavor text included in the feat. If you want to continue playing the flavor text game, turn to page 39 of MoE and re-read the Psiforged section, specifically the list of composite materials used in the construction of a psiforged (Sovereigns, I hate that term, but that's an argument for another day): a 'significant amount of crystal' is specified, along with several other standard warforged materials. Notably absent from that list are adamantine, mithral and ironwood.

By both RAW and flavor, Psiforged Body should not stack with any other warforged body feats.

The question then becomes, what is the AC bonus for Psiforged body feat? There is none. A warforged with the Psiforged Body feat has the standard +2 armor bonus from composite plating.

other stuff
Warforged with alternate body types do not receive armor check penalties; they receive penalties to many of the same skills that ACP applies to.
Drag0nUL
08-21-07, 12:27 PM By both RAW and flavor, Psiforged Body should not stack with any other warforged body feats.

By RAW you might be right. By flavor is debatable. By usefulness it's terrible. I mean I can't see any psionic class wasting a feat for 11 power points at level 20 when they can do much better things with it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drag0nUL 08-14-07, 02:18 PM	Well, in the description of the Psiforged body feat (MoE pag 51) it states that this feat must be taken at lvl.1. However apart from listing the psionic benefits, this body feat (unlike the others) does not list any AC bonus or check penalty. This has lead me to assume that it uses the stats for composite plating, but in the psiforged example (MoE pag 41), the psychic warrior seems to have both the Mithral Body (listed as a feat) and Psiforged Body (psycristal body as an SQ). So I am a bit puzzled about how to use this feat.
Alex_ 08-14-07, 02:36 PM	Looks like a misprint. The example character didn't take the Psiforged Body feat at all. Since -as you pointed out- it makes no mention of changes to AC bonuses, Armor Check penalties, or Arcane Spell Failure, I would think it works with whatever other kind of armor the Warforged has. If you have a Warforged who has 2 feats at first level, they can select both Mithril Body/Unarmored Body/Darkwood Body/ect and Psiforged Body simultaneously.
TiwazTyrsfist 08-14-07, 02:41 PM	Note that the book was writen by three different people working together. Psiforged seems to have been used as Both a race AND a feat. This is undoubtedly the result of confusion do to repeatedly changing their mind about whether it should be a race of feat. Followed by a proofreading/editing slip up. We've had a thread about this before, and IIRC the general consensus was A> to use it as a body feat not a race, and B> that Psiforged Body, unlike the other body feats, is non-exclusive, so if you are using Flaws for Feats (UA) you could take Psiforged Body AND Mithral Body OR Psiforged Body AND Adamantine Body OR Psiforged Body AND Darkwood Body.
Tolly7249 08-15-07, 01:23 AM	The way I read it, I got the general impression that a Psiforged is a Warforged with psionic crystals incorporated into the mix of metals/wood/other stuff that a Warforged's body is constructed from. Therefore, if someone wants to take, for example, Psiforged Body and Mithral Body, then I'd let them... On the caveat that they had a really good in-character reason for such.
TheKeyofE 08-15-07, 08:24 AM	Mmm...Psion with both Adamantine Body and Psiforged Body...drool
Kreistor2 08-16-07, 10:21 AM	Well, technically, you can't take more than one Body feat at level 1, since you can only use general feats for body feats, and Warforged only get one at Level 1. If your DM gives you more than one feat to start with, then he's allowing a situation the designers didn't design for. Their intention is only one Body feat at L1, and so only one of Adamantine, Mithral, and Psiforged should probably be allowed. Since Psiforged does not mention replacing the normal composite, you retain all normal warforged characteristics.
Need_A_Life 08-18-07, 06:04 PM	Playing with Flaws having an Adamantine Psiforged Psion is perfectly reasonable. And it's not as though you're gamebreaking. You're giving up 10ft./round (unless you're a warforged scout, who lose NOTHING by taking Adamantine Body; though the race is weak, so that's cool). I would use the normal composite plating stats with the added abilities of Psiforged Body. It just makes sense to me.
Drag0nUL 08-19-07, 09:05 AM	I would use the normal composite plating stats with the added abilities of Psiforged Body. It just makes sense to me. Still, that greatly limits the use of this feat to psions/wilders. Anything that expects to see melee combat (Psychic warriors, psi-gishes, ardents, divine mids etc.) would be much better with adamantine/mithral body. However, considering this feat free (like creating a psiforged race) means there is absolutely no reason for a warforged not to take it. Even if you play a non-psionic class, some psionic feats are really nice.
AntiSean 08-20-07, 09:30 AM	Playing with Flaws having an Adamantine Psiforged Psion is perfectly reasonable. It's about as reasonable as playing an Adamantine & Mithral Body Warforged. The Warforged Body feats were not designed with a Merits/Flaws system in mind; of course, if you're going to add the cheese of Flaws into your game, then you probably don't care about that anyway.
Drag0nUL 08-20-07, 10:54 AM	It's about as reasonable as playing an Adamantine & Mithral Body Warforged. I'll have to disagree here. Composite (default) Mithral, Adamantine or Ironwood Body feats specify the base material from which the warforged body is constructed (or at least the plating). Psiforged body on the other hand, specifies the use of 'trace amounts of psionically resonant crystal'. It's not as if your entire body is made of cognizance crystals. And if you can insert this small amount of crystals in a composite plating, I really don't see any reason that you shouldn't be able to do so with adamantine/mithral/ironwood plating. Flavor-wise, I think Psiforged body tends more toward the Tracery feats than actual body feats. Not that I like the way Tracery feats are implemented: 'OMG, I jsut reached level 3 and discovered I had cold iron in me all along'
TiwazTyrsfist 08-20-07, 05:04 PM	It's about as reasonable as playing an Adamantine & Mithral Body Warforged. The Warforged Body feats were not designed with a Merits/Flaws system in mind; of course, if you're going to add the cheese of Flaws into your game, then you probably don't care about that anyway. I disagree. Taking Adamantine body, mithral body, ironwood body, or unarmored body feats together doesn't make sense, you're right there. It would, at best, be like wearing a suit of mithral armor over a suit of adamantine armor, or some similarly silly idea. However, Psi-forged body leaves your normal composite plating intact. It inserts crystals into it, but the normal composite plating remains. Having that composite plating made of mithril, iron, ironwood, or adamantine should have no effect on whether you have psycrystals growing in your body, and vise versa. I'll have to disagree here. Composite (default) Mithral, Adamantine or Ironwood Body feats specify the base material from which the warforged body is constructed (or at least the plating). Psiforged body on the other hand, specifies the use of 'trace amounts of psionically resonant crystal'. It's not as if your entire body is made of cognizance crystals. And if you can insert this small amount of crystals in a composite plating, I really don't see any reason that you shouldn't be able to do so with adamantine/mithral/ironwood plating. Flavor-wise, I think Psiforged body tends more toward the Tracery feats than actual body feats. Not that I like the way Tracery feats are implemented: 'OMG, I jsut reached level 3 and discovered I had cold iron in me all along' We use an assumption of having had some work done. Tracing doesn't just appear. During down time, you go have a blacksmith/artificer install tracery.
Nightshade 08-20-07, 05:45 PM	You can't have more than one body feat so having both Mithral and Psiforged OR Adamantine and Psiforged is not acceptable or reasonable. The question then becomes, what is the AC bonus for Psiforged body feat? It is a minimum of +2 as that is the basics for Composite Plating. Yet it is extremely unlikely to be +5 as that is Mithral body feat. And as someone else said, why would you ever take Mithral if you can get Psiforged for the same AC bonus as well as Power Points and access to Psionic feats? But I definitely think it has a level 1 feat requirement due to the PP bonus and due to the fact that ALL the other Body feats have a Level 1 Requirement. So, the AC bonus must be either +3 or +4. Frankly, I think that it is +3. Warforged bodies are Masterwork. Masterwork Studded Leather provides a +3 and no armor check penalty. Psions are proficient in No Armors. However, this just means that they can wear any armor without an armor check penalty and have no ill effects. Armors with an armor check penalty give them a negative modifier to their Attacks equal to the armor check penalty. If this armor is designed to be used with Psions, then it should not have an armor check penalty. This way, there's no confusion about armor proficiency, attack modifiers, and warforged bodies. If Psiforged were to have a +4 bonus, it would provide a -1 armor check penalty and it would engender confusion. Now, I know people are going to say, "but they're always proficient in their bodies". Well, it does not say that anywhere in a rules section in Eberron or in Magic of Eberron. It says that in a purely FLUFF section on Warforged in Races of Eberron, which is notorious for its inaccuracies!!! It isn't even an Eberron book, it's a Races book. That is hardly definitive evidence.
AntiSean 08-20-07, 08:14 PM	Psiforged body on the other hand, specifies the use of 'trace amounts of psionically resonant crystal'. It's not as if your entire body is made of cognizance crystals. And if you can insert this small amount of crystals in a composite plating, I really don't see any reason that you shouldn't be able to do so with adamantine/mithral/ironwood plating. 'trace amounts' is a rather narrow reading of the flavor text included in the feat. If you want to continue playing the flavor text game, turn to page 39 of MoE and re-read the Psiforged section, specifically the list of composite materials used in the construction of a psiforged (Sovereigns, I hate that term, but that's an argument for another day): a 'significant amount of crystal' is specified, along with several other standard warforged materials. Notably absent from that list are adamantine, mithral and ironwood. By both RAW and flavor, Psiforged Body should not stack with any other warforged body feats. The question then becomes, what is the AC bonus for Psiforged body feat? There is none. A warforged with the Psiforged Body feat has the standard +2 armor bonus from composite plating. other stuff Warforged with alternate body types do not receive armor check penalties; they receive penalties to many of the same skills that ACP applies to.
Drag0nUL 08-21-07, 12:27 PM	By both RAW and flavor, Psiforged Body should not stack with any other warforged body feats. By RAW you might be right. By flavor is debatable. By usefulness it's terrible. I mean I can't see any psionic class wasting a feat for 11 power points at level 20 when they can do much better things with it.