Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arryn 05-22-07, 10:07 PM	The title pretty much speaks for itself. I have a 4th level Warforged Artificer and I am wondering if it is worthwhile to take this as the 4th level bonus feat. If not at 4th then with the normal feat at 6th? I haven't ever run an Artificer so I don't know it it would be better to take this feat or to take one of the "Exceptional" feats as my bonus. For background, I am planning on this character to be a support-type character... probably a mixture of Blastificer and Buffister. Any help would be appreciated.
naturax 05-24-07, 12:58 PM	I just started playing a 4th level artificer and I'm very happy with my selection of Rapid Infusion. When your party gets jumped by a bunch of WHATEVERS, being able to create a bane: WHATEVER item right on the spot (without burning through all of your action points) is totally worth it. Unless you can name another feat that's going to give you +2 to hit and +2d6 damage for one important fight every day.
Subtle Knife 05-24-07, 03:10 PM	I think that it can be worthwhile, but is potentially trumped by the "Siphon Charge" ability of the Cannith Wand Adept PrC, which basically allows you to drain of wand charges to create action points. If you are considering a Blastificer character, you might want to consider the Cannith Wand Adept... Further details and another perspective might be found in Edymnions' Artificer guide. SK
dr_traitor 05-25-07, 10:21 PM	At least in my game, the answer is not worth it at all. Haven't found a use for more than 2 of my action points yet, and i'm going on level 5 now. it's far simpler to use the action point for bane weapon infusion only.
Edymnion 05-25-07, 10:33 PM	Haven't found a use for more than 2 of my action points yet, and i'm going on level 5 now. it's far simpler to use the action point for bane weapon infusion only.Honestly, I think something is amiss then. Are you simply not using any infusions in combat at all?
dr_traitor 05-26-07, 03:05 AM	Honestly, I think something is amiss then. Are you simply not using any infusions in combat at all? Hardly, to be honest. Bane weapon is about the most positive EV thing i end up doing.
Edymnion 05-26-07, 06:10 PM	Hardly, to be honest. Bane weapon is about the most positive EV thing i end up doing.Yeah, and that alone should be sucking up most of your action points. You're 5th level and have only ever used 2 AP?
tallric_kruush 05-26-07, 07:22 PM	Yeah, and that alone should be sucking up most of your action points. You're 5th level and have only ever used 2 AP? I'm thinking he meant "more than 2 AP per level". I could be wrong, though.
Edymnion 05-26-07, 07:27 PM	I'm thinking he meant "more than 2 AP per level". I could be wrong, though.But still, he should be getting into ~13 encounters per level. That means he's not using infusions for 11 out of 13 fights. I mean, not that it isn't doable, but the only way I can see a combat artificer not burning more AP than that is if the DM doesn't do many surprise encounters and gives him enough time to use his infusions without needing to speed them up.
tallric_kruush 05-26-07, 07:31 PM	... but the only way I can see a combat artificer not burning more AP than that is if the DM doesn't do many surprise encounters and gives him enough time to use his infusions without needing to speed them up. This is likely the case. I'm hardly an expert (and probably not even worthy of the term novice) of the Artificer class, but this seems the most likely explanation.
Runepriest 05-27-07, 10:07 AM	but the only way I can see a combat artificer not burning more AP than that is if the DM doesn't do many surprise encounters and gives him enough time to use his infusions without needing to speed them up. I third that motion.
Edymnion 05-27-07, 12:29 PM	At which point, no, he wouldn't see much use in Rapid Infusion. I tend to find it rare to have a combat that you have time to sit down and prepare for though. Combat in my experience tends to be more of a "The monster jumps out of the bushes, goes 'Rawr' and attacks. Everybody roll init".
tallric_kruush 05-27-07, 12:36 PM	At which point, no, he wouldn't see much use in Rapid Infusion. I tend to find it rare to have a combat that you have time to sit down and prepare for though. Combat in my experience tends to be more of a "The monster jumps out of the bushes, goes 'Rawr' and attacks. Everybody roll init". A scenario from one of the novels just keeps coming to mind with this thread. In the novel In the Claws of the Tiger, there is a scene where the heroes encounter enemy sentries guarding an outpost. Seizing neither the element of surprise nor a significant terrain advantage, the enemies allow the heroes to "take five" and buff-up for combat. The artificer in particular took several minutes, IIRC, to enhance everyone's weapons. Buffed, the heroes slaughter what I thought would be a challenging encounter. It felt all wrong when I read it. A few posts here made me remember it.
Yadot 05-27-07, 02:06 PM	If that scenerio is the one I'm thinking of, didn't Auftane all but say he used two action points to infuse his and Janik's weapons? (We're both thinking of the ambush with the horn and tower right?)
tallric_kruush 05-27-07, 02:23 PM	If that scenerio is the one I'm thinking of, didn't Auftane all but say he used two action points to infuse his and Janik's weapons? (We're both thinking of the ambush with the horn and tower right?) I had to take a look back to refresh my memory of the sequence of events. To answer your questions: Yes, and yes. During the initial attack Auftane clearly used AP to infuse his own weapon in the thick of combat. Then, when the initial moments of combat are past, the group takes Khyber knows how long to debate history, use a little divination/scrying magic, and have a picnic...okay, maybe not the picnic. Realizing the obviously incompetent enemies aren't going to attack again with any kind of timeliness, Auftane begins infusing at a more leisurely pace. Someone comments on the slowness of his infusing, and he explains that rapid infusions in the midst of combat take a lot out of him (AP!!). My real gripe is with the enemies' tactics. The encounter actually perfectly demonstrates the pros and cons--the benefits and costs--of infusing in the midst of combat. Good memory, Yadot.
dr_traitor 05-27-07, 04:50 PM	At which point, no, he wouldn't see much use in Rapid Infusion. I tend to find it rare to have a combat that you have time to sit down and prepare for though. Combat in my experience tends to be more of a "The monster jumps out of the bushes, goes 'Rawr' and attacks. Everybody roll init". Yeah, good intuit. Most encounters are pretty well planned. It's almost like planning heists alot of the time. :embarrass
OzyBurrfoot 05-29-07, 09:51 AM	Unless you can name another feat that's going to give you +2 to hit and +2d6 damage for one important fight every day. Thats actually +2 to hit and +2d6+2 damage, remember the bane quality treats the enhancement bonus as being 2 higher, so that adds to damage as well as attack.
gotbrain 05-30-07, 05:31 PM	What book is this feat from? I'm assuming it lets you use an infusion in one round for those that usually take longer. After looking through the list of infusions i didn't notice many that took longer than 1 round to cast (besides weapon augment and armor augments). Is it worth it to take this feat then?
Runepriest 05-30-07, 05:49 PM	Rapid Infusion is from MoE.
Edymnion 05-30-07, 07:18 PM	Is it worth it to take this feat then?If you get into sudden combat without time to prepare, yes. It is essentially +1 Action Points per level.
gotbrain 05-30-07, 07:23 PM	If you get into sudden combat without time to prepare, yes. It is essentially +1 Action Points per level. What about using spell store to hold weapon augmentation until needed? Do infusions count as spells in this way?
Arryn 05-30-07, 07:25 PM	If you get into sudden combat without time to prepare, yes. It is essentially +1 Action Points per level. Actually it's really +1 Action Points per day.
Edymnion 05-30-07, 07:26 PM	Actually it's really +1 Action Points per day.Oh, right, my bad. So, on average (assuming 4 encounters per day), its +3 AP per level. More if your DM doesn't do a full 4 encounters per day.
Runepriest 05-31-07, 10:58 AM	Oh, right, my bad. So, on average (assuming 4 encounters per day), its +3 AP per level. More if your DM doesn't do a full 4 encounters per day. Most people new to DMing have a new day after every encounter if they haven't read the recommended 4 encounters/day part of the DMG.
DarkWarriorKarg 05-31-07, 12:26 PM	What about using spell store to hold weapon augmentation until needed? Do infusions count as spells in this way? Nope. Although you should be able to "hold" an infusion... so you "pre-cast" bane, holding onto it until you need it... Of course, this requires that you cast no other infusion until you release it.
Edymnion 05-31-07, 07:54 PM	Although you should be able to "hold" an infusion... so you "pre-cast" bane, holding onto it until you need it...TMK, can't do it. You infuse the item, you don't cast a spell and then just pop it on when you get around to it.
dr_traitor 06-01-07, 03:02 AM	TMK, can't do it. You infuse the item, you don't cast a spell and then just pop it on when you get around to it. It's a good point though, using spell storing item to pre-cast bane weapon spells. Are there any good spells out there that provide bane weapon bonuses?
Edymnion 06-01-07, 12:24 PM	It's a good point though, using spell storing item to pre-cast bane weapon spells. Are there any good spells out there that provide bane weapon bonuses?There's a good question, actually. Can a spell storing item store an infusion?
Darakhoranon 06-02-07, 02:29 PM	Since an infusion is per definition NOT a spell, Iīd say no. However, since the artificer can "fake" casting a spell in order to create a magic item, I donīt see why he shouldnīt be able to "fake" storing a spell in the spell storing item - actually, heīs storing an infusion, but it "looks" and "feels" as if heīs storing a spell...
Malruhn 06-04-07, 09:47 PM	With my 10th level Artificer, I go through about 3 Action points per encounter... Which really sucks when I only get 5+1/2 of my levels... and we have 10-13 encounters per level... which makes a deficit of about 30 AP's per level... The feat rocks!
Darakhoranon 06-05-07, 11:43 AM	So if you burn your APs like crazy, that feat DOES pay off. If I didnīt misunderstand the OP, though, heīs not the kind that tends to use up his limited resources (which will eventually regenerate). So I donīt think the feat would be the right one for him - unless he completely changes his style...
Elderich 06-08-07, 06:52 AM	Although you should be able to "hold" an infusion... so you "pre-cast" bane, holding onto it until you need it... Of course, this requires that you cast no other infusion until you release it.You are holding a "touch" spell. IIRC... That means you can not touch ANYTHING, even by accident. Note that I do not see this restriction in the SRD, but I think it is in the PHB.
Runepriest 06-09-07, 10:36 PM	You are holding a "touch" spell. IIRC... That means you can not touch ANYTHING, even by accident. Note that I do not see this restriction in the SRD, but I think it is in the PHB. Which means no wearing clothes? I see someone directing me to OOTS's streaking elan.