Shapeshift Druid "fix" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shapeshift Druid "fix" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Werebat
08-18-07, 02:49 PM This is the "fix" I plan to use for Shapeshift druid IMC, which I will be imposing on ALL druids. Those of you who know that I'm running an orc/goblin based campaign in Eberron and have checked out my Orc Druid racial sub levels will understand that I have eliminated one of them, because Shapeshift druid gets Str added to shapeshift forms anyway. Huzzah! No reason for Orc druids to lose Spontaneous Summoning!

-Druids lose their wildshape ability in exchange for a variant of the Shapeshifter druid ability found on pages 40-42 of the PHBII, with the following changes:

1. Druids retain their animal companions.
2. Druids don't get access to the Shapeshift ability until they would usually get Wildshape (5th level).
3. Druids can stay in Shapeshift alternate forms indefinitely, but can only assume new forms the same number of times per day as a regular druid could use Wildshape.
4. Druids can choose to take two claw attacks with the Predator form (1d3 damage each) by reducing the bite damage of the form to 1d4. Similarly, they can choose to lose the claw attacks granted by the Ferocious Slayer form in order to raise the base damage of the bite attack to 2d6. In addition, the “talon” attack of the aerial form can be changed to a bite attack, which in turn can be enhanced with two claw attacks exactly like the Predator form. This allows more realistic representation of animal forms like panthers and dire wolves, plus it gives the druid some more options with using Shapeshift for combat.
5. Add an "aquatic" form (usually an otter, dolphin, or similar aquatic animal), gained at the same time the aerial form is gained (5th level) with identical abilities except that instead of a fly speed of 40, a swim speed of 40 is gained and at 7th level the aquatic form gains "swim-by attack" instead of "flyby attack" (works the same except underwater). Note that this form cannot actually breathe underwater.
6. Add an "arboreal" form (usually a monkey or similar creature), gained at the same time the aerial form is gained (5th level) with identical abilities except that instead of a fly speed of 40, a climb speed of 40 is gained and at 7th level the arboreal form gains "climb-by attack" instead of "flyby attack" (works the same except while climbing only).
7. Elemental Fury forms gain the following abilities, according to their elemental type: +2d6 fire damage per attack (Fire), Swim speed of 100 (Water), Fly speed of 100 with perfect maneuverability (Air), Earthglide (as an Earth elemental) (Earth). Note that because Elemental Fury forms do not breathe, there is no need for the water form to gain water breathing.
8. Other forms get the following third abilities at higher levels: Predator form: Scent at level 6; Aerial/Arboreal/Swimming form: +10 to special movement speed at level 9; Ferocious Slayer form: Imp. Natural Attack (Bite) at level 12; Forest Avenger form: Option to assume a Huge size at level 16 (with attendant benefits/penalties as per page 291 of the Monster Manual except for stat modifiers other than Strength).

Well, what do you think? Looks fun and balanced to me, plus I look forward to finally banishing those binders full of Cave Ankylosaurs, Dire Wildebeests, and whatnot that my players with druid PCs lug to every session... :D

- Ron ^*^
Werebat
08-18-07, 03:24 PM Hrm... Since this is the board to post such things on, I guess I'll also post my update for the Orc druid... I'm leaving Orcs as they are in Eberron but giving them a +4 racial bonus to Handle Animal checks involving Horrid Animals (I would probably also give a similar +2 bonus to Half-Orcs).

These are my revised racial sub levels for Orc druids:

1st Level: Lose Animal Empathy to gain Fast Movement as the 1st level Barbarian ability.

4th Level: Lose Resist Nature’s Lure to gain the ability to Rage as a barbarian 1/day.

So, again, what do you think? Specifically, does the racial bonus, the variant of Shapeshift druid being applied to ALL druids, and the racial sub levels work to make Orc druids look attractive? Are they good enough? TOO good?

- Ron ^*^
Werebat
08-18-07, 11:30 PM (Edited original post to include some other ideas)

- Ron ^*^
Rerecros
08-18-07, 11:57 PM 1st Level: Lose Animal Empathy to gain Fast Movement as the 1st level Barbarian ability.

4th Level: Lose Resist Nature’s Lure to gain the ability to Rage as a barbarian 1/day.

That's crazy unbalanced.
The rest looks fine.
Werebat
08-19-07, 12:08 AM That's crazy unbalanced.
The rest looks fine.

I was worried that it might be.

The thing is, Orcs have a -2 to Wisdom and are therefore pretty crappy druids. I realize that when I use the Shapeshifter variant, the racial Strength bonus of the Orc doesn't get flushed when he Shapeshifts, so that improves the situation somewhat over a traditional druid. But still, -2 to Wis hurts the Orc druid.

I'd like to give Orc druids some sort of racial sub levels to even things out, and I can easily see having them lose Wild Empathy and Resist Nature's Lure. The question is, what to have them gain? Fast Move and Rage seemed to make sense, but yeah, it did seem unbalanced.

(Orc druids, like any druids, can also take the Druidic Avenger druid variant from Unearthed Arcana to get these barbarian abilities anyway, but it costs them their animal companion and spontaneous summoning, so it's a pretty pricey tradeoff).

[Edit -- It seems like I could just get rid of the -2 Wis penalty with racial sub levels, or at least those parts of it that matter to the druid... Lose animal empathy at 1st level to gain a +1 to the DC of all druid spells cast, then lose Resist Nature's Lure at 4th to gain extra spells per day as if the druid's wisdom were two points higher than it is. That would work and would make Orcs a good choice for druid, but it would be nice to put an Orcish "spin" on these abilities somehow. Any ideas?]

- Ron ^*^
Rerecros
08-19-07, 06:14 PM Empather and resist natures lore or weak flavor abilities, they don't come into play much, so don't bother trying to replace them. honestly, you could just remove the -2 wis penalty from orcs and they would still be inferior to humans.
Werebat
08-19-07, 07:19 PM Empather and resist natures lore or weak flavor abilities, they don't come into play much, so don't bother trying to replace them. honestly, you could just remove the -2 wis penalty from orcs and they would still be inferior to humans.

True, they don't come into play much, the idea was to remove a couple things that you could see Orc druids NOT having and replace them with more useful things to bump up their utility as a druid PC race.

Removing the -2 Wis penalty makes them far superior to humans as combat clerics, and encourages such builds as well as others (monk, for example) more than druid. That's not what I'm after doing.

Thanks for the input though.

- Ron ^*^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werebat 08-18-07, 02:49 PM	This is the "fix" I plan to use for Shapeshift druid IMC, which I will be imposing on ALL druids. Those of you who know that I'm running an orc/goblin based campaign in Eberron and have checked out my Orc Druid racial sub levels will understand that I have eliminated one of them, because Shapeshift druid gets Str added to shapeshift forms anyway. Huzzah! No reason for Orc druids to lose Spontaneous Summoning! -Druids lose their wildshape ability in exchange for a variant of the Shapeshifter druid ability found on pages 40-42 of the PHBII, with the following changes: 1. Druids retain their animal companions. 2. Druids don't get access to the Shapeshift ability until they would usually get Wildshape (5th level). 3. Druids can stay in Shapeshift alternate forms indefinitely, but can only assume new forms the same number of times per day as a regular druid could use Wildshape. 4. Druids can choose to take two claw attacks with the Predator form (1d3 damage each) by reducing the bite damage of the form to 1d4. Similarly, they can choose to lose the claw attacks granted by the Ferocious Slayer form in order to raise the base damage of the bite attack to 2d6. In addition, the “talon” attack of the aerial form can be changed to a bite attack, which in turn can be enhanced with two claw attacks exactly like the Predator form. This allows more realistic representation of animal forms like panthers and dire wolves, plus it gives the druid some more options with using Shapeshift for combat. 5. Add an "aquatic" form (usually an otter, dolphin, or similar aquatic animal), gained at the same time the aerial form is gained (5th level) with identical abilities except that instead of a fly speed of 40, a swim speed of 40 is gained and at 7th level the aquatic form gains "swim-by attack" instead of "flyby attack" (works the same except underwater). Note that this form cannot actually breathe underwater. 6. Add an "arboreal" form (usually a monkey or similar creature), gained at the same time the aerial form is gained (5th level) with identical abilities except that instead of a fly speed of 40, a climb speed of 40 is gained and at 7th level the arboreal form gains "climb-by attack" instead of "flyby attack" (works the same except while climbing only). 7. Elemental Fury forms gain the following abilities, according to their elemental type: +2d6 fire damage per attack (Fire), Swim speed of 100 (Water), Fly speed of 100 with perfect maneuverability (Air), Earthglide (as an Earth elemental) (Earth). Note that because Elemental Fury forms do not breathe, there is no need for the water form to gain water breathing. 8. Other forms get the following third abilities at higher levels: Predator form: Scent at level 6; Aerial/Arboreal/Swimming form: +10 to special movement speed at level 9; Ferocious Slayer form: Imp. Natural Attack (Bite) at level 12; Forest Avenger form: Option to assume a Huge size at level 16 (with attendant benefits/penalties as per page 291 of the Monster Manual except for stat modifiers other than Strength). Well, what do you think? Looks fun and balanced to me, plus I look forward to finally banishing those binders full of Cave Ankylosaurs, Dire Wildebeests, and whatnot that my players with druid PCs lug to every session... :D - Ron ^*^
Werebat 08-18-07, 03:24 PM	Hrm... Since this is the board to post such things on, I guess I'll also post my update for the Orc druid... I'm leaving Orcs as they are in Eberron but giving them a +4 racial bonus to Handle Animal checks involving Horrid Animals (I would probably also give a similar +2 bonus to Half-Orcs). These are my revised racial sub levels for Orc druids: 1st Level: Lose Animal Empathy to gain Fast Movement as the 1st level Barbarian ability. 4th Level: Lose Resist Nature’s Lure to gain the ability to Rage as a barbarian 1/day. So, again, what do you think? Specifically, does the racial bonus, the variant of Shapeshift druid being applied to ALL druids, and the racial sub levels work to make Orc druids look attractive? Are they good enough? TOO good? - Ron ^*^
Werebat 08-18-07, 11:30 PM	(Edited original post to include some other ideas) - Ron ^*^
Rerecros 08-18-07, 11:57 PM	1st Level: Lose Animal Empathy to gain Fast Movement as the 1st level Barbarian ability. 4th Level: Lose Resist Nature’s Lure to gain the ability to Rage as a barbarian 1/day. That's crazy unbalanced. The rest looks fine.
Werebat 08-19-07, 12:08 AM	That's crazy unbalanced. The rest looks fine. I was worried that it might be. The thing is, Orcs have a -2 to Wisdom and are therefore pretty crappy druids. I realize that when I use the Shapeshifter variant, the racial Strength bonus of the Orc doesn't get flushed when he Shapeshifts, so that improves the situation somewhat over a traditional druid. But still, -2 to Wis hurts the Orc druid. I'd like to give Orc druids some sort of racial sub levels to even things out, and I can easily see having them lose Wild Empathy and Resist Nature's Lure. The question is, what to have them gain? Fast Move and Rage seemed to make sense, but yeah, it did seem unbalanced. (Orc druids, like any druids, can also take the Druidic Avenger druid variant from Unearthed Arcana to get these barbarian abilities anyway, but it costs them their animal companion and spontaneous summoning, so it's a pretty pricey tradeoff). [Edit -- It seems like I could just get rid of the -2 Wis penalty with racial sub levels, or at least those parts of it that matter to the druid... Lose animal empathy at 1st level to gain a +1 to the DC of all druid spells cast, then lose Resist Nature's Lure at 4th to gain extra spells per day as if the druid's wisdom were two points higher than it is. That would work and would make Orcs a good choice for druid, but it would be nice to put an Orcish "spin" on these abilities somehow. Any ideas?] - Ron ^*^
Rerecros 08-19-07, 06:14 PM	Empather and resist natures lore or weak flavor abilities, they don't come into play much, so don't bother trying to replace them. honestly, you could just remove the -2 wis penalty from orcs and they would still be inferior to humans.
Werebat 08-19-07, 07:19 PM	Empather and resist natures lore or weak flavor abilities, they don't come into play much, so don't bother trying to replace them. honestly, you could just remove the -2 wis penalty from orcs and they would still be inferior to humans. True, they don't come into play much, the idea was to remove a couple things that you could see Orc druids NOT having and replace them with more useful things to bump up their utility as a druid PC race. Removing the -2 Wis penalty makes them far superior to humans as combat clerics, and encourages such builds as well as others (monk, for example) more than druid. That's not what I'm after doing. Thanks for the input though. - Ron ^*^