Post/Author/DateTime	Post
skrap-san 03-03-08, 07:14 AM	I am currently not at home, and don't have acess to all of my books. But I have been playing with a Aberrant Siberus(pardon miss spelling) PrC. I personally need it for a BBEG. But then I got to think that it would be cool for players to have that option to. So once I get home and get my hands on the ECS im going to statt him out. But I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for alternate powers and spell like abilities for this new PrC. Or if someone had already made one...
Revvecor 03-03-08, 12:29 PM	I am currently not at home, and don't have acess to all of my books. But I have been playing with a Aberrant Siberus(pardon miss spelling) PrC. I personally need it for a BBEG. But then I got to think that it would be cool for players to have that option to. So once I get home and get my hands on the ECS im going to statt him out. But I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for alternate powers and spell like abilities for this new PrC. Or if someone had already made one... Not to be irritating, but aren't Aberrant Marks derived from Khyber? So wouldn't make more sense to call it a "Khyber Mark" This being said I would definitely like to see some ideas!
Belabras 03-03-08, 02:35 PM	Something like The Child of Khyber (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20070416a)?
Syltorian 03-03-08, 02:54 PM	Khyber-Marks would be the better word. The Dragonmarked Heir equivalent for aberrant marks, posted on the WotC website, is called Heir of Khyber. As for powers, start with looking at the few bits we know about the events of the War of the Mark: Halas Tarkanan levelled Sharn with an earthquake. So the Earthquake power should be a no-brainer, though for levelling Sharn, you need to find a focus item, of course. From there, expand to use similar natural catastrophes for other Khyber Marks: Meteor Swarm, Whirlwind. Raise Volcano (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20031017a) if you really want to make this powerful. The Lady of Plague created swarms and plagues that persist to this day. Masters of the Wild has an Epidemic spell that could mimic this, minus the swarms. Plague (Player's Handbook II) could also work. Other spells I could see used by Khyber-Marked people are Imprisonment, which could be very terrifying, and Weird. Phantasmal Killer already exists as an aberrant spell-like ability (either Lesser or Greater, can't remember). Overall... I would not make this available to PCs without much, much thought. Some These are devastating abilities. True, Lyrandar gets a Storm of Vengeance, but a Khyber-Marked with Weird, Epidemic or the like is terrifying. Besides, if this development is discovered, you might have a new Inquisition by the true-Marked on your hands, and persecution, fear contempt of Aberrant-Marked, which have stopped (by Dragonmarked, would return. Sharn still remembers what happened in the War of the Mark. And that was some 1800 years ago. This is great as a campaign villain, but as a PC, this has huge implications. Of course, having a high-level game of the PCs all being aberrant-marked gathered by the Khyber-marked to defend themselves against the Houses and gain the advantage in the inevitable war without embracing the darkness of House Tarkanan could also be a great game. The PCs have to gain allies, find focus-items, search for a place where they can live in peace, all without giving themselves away... and possibly convince other Khyber-marked not to draw the ire of the Dragonmarked Houses by sinking Stormhome. Also, to make the villain truly epic (not necessarily using Epic rules, mind you), consider having him discover focus items from the War of the Mark. Now he can channel that Plague to make it resistant against healing magic, or expand his earthquake to more than 80 ft.
skrap-san 03-03-08, 03:23 PM	So wouldn't make more sense to call it a "Khyber Mark" You are most certanly right. Ok so here are my ideas so far: Pre requirements: Race:Of propper dragonmarked race, but unlike with a propper dragonmark, any subrace can also gain this prestige class. Skills: 15 ranks in any two skills. Alignment: Any nongood. Feats: Heroic spirit (not sure if this one is the best one flavor wise) Special: Cannot have any dragonmarks, abberant dragonmarsk or Heir of Syberys levels. Hd:6 Skills pr level: 2+int Class skills: any skill that the Khyber heir has gained as class skills earlier also count as class skills for the Khyber Heir. bab: medium 0/+1/+2 all good saves. +1 caster level at level 2 and 3. Or bonus feat from given list. Level 1: Increased action points: +2 action points pr level. Bonus feat: Choose one from the following list: Level 2: Khybers Mark: Chose one of the following spell like abilities. Crushing hand 1/d Shadow Walk 2/d Power word kill 1/d Energy Drain 1/d Timestop 1/d Symbol of insanity 1/d Level 3: Improved Khybers Mark: One aditional use of your Khybers mark per day. What needs to be done: Finding bonus feats that match the feeling and idea behind the Mark of Khyber. And I need some feedback on the spells chosen, and on other things I might have overlooked. PS: all of this was writen before reading Belabras and Syltorians responses. So more to come. And no, this is not going to be a PC PcR anytime soon. I need him to be a Big bad guy, maybe even a recuring bad guy. Sort of how you should not play a inspired actually. And yes I know about the child of Khyber PrC
Syltorian 03-03-08, 05:31 PM	PS: all of this was writen before reading Belabras and Syltorians responses. So more to come. I'll still tackle what you got so far. :) Alignment: Any nongood. Grumble. Pet peeve alarm: yeah, that's what the Child of Khyber PrC says, too, so this is a criticism regarding that PrC too: I like the idea that Halas Tarkanan and the Lady of Plague were not, it seems, evil. Nor were many of the aberrant-marked. Dragonmarked, I believe, explains that they did not use their powers until virtually forced to do so. I'd be wary about forcing people to be non-good. Detect as non-good, suffer from effects as if you were not good, sure - the Mark may influence that. I also understand that "non-good" does not mean "evil". But I'd like to allow PCs who are basically good, just fighting with dark influences and the creeping madness. It also makes metagaming easier, consciously or unconsciously, by associating 'aberrant mark' with 'up to no good'. Of course, given the parallel with the Child of Khyber, it'd be strange not to have the same requirement. Shadow Walk 2/d This is already a power of the Mark of Shadow. I don't think it is spelled out anywhere, but aberrant marks should not reflect powers of true marks. What needs to be done: Finding bonus feats that match the feeling and idea behind the Mark of Khyber. Some suggestions: any feat with 'aberrant mark' in the PGtE or Dragonmarked, except, of course, Lesser Aberrant Mark and Greater Aberrant Mark. Perhaps some feats from the Heroes of Horror supplement - the ones that require taint. Change this requirement to "Siberys Khyber Mark". Aberrant Feats (Lords of Madness) and some Demonic ones (Fiendish Codex I) could work too. Eberron Expanded: LoM addresses the possibility of using Aberrant Mark as a replacement for Aberrant Blood as a prerequisite for Aberrant feats.
Wih 03-03-08, 10:02 PM	Remember that the Lady of Plague and such still had normal abberant dragonmarks - I personally don't think that a Khyber Mark should be restricted to not having a dragonmark - you should have to have the Greater Mark to get in. Just my 2cp tho.
Nexusdragon 03-03-08, 10:20 PM	Remember that the Lady of Plague and such still had normal abberant dragonmarks - I personally don't think that a Khyber Mark should be restricted to not having a dragonmark - you should have to have the Greater Mark to get in. Just my 2cp tho. But a dragonmarked heir can't get a Siberys mark. It's really just a balance thing. Any character, including a BBEG, that can cast Burning Hands, Summon Swarm, Insect Plague, AND Power Word: Kill is pretty darn overpowered IMO, especially considering most of those are gained from feats and not classes. I think it retains balance and allows for the flavor aspect of someone being unmarked and suddenly becoming a fountain of "darkness." A Khyber Mark could scare the crap out of two members of different Houses who thought their tryst didn't turn out so bad. Goodbye Favored in House, Hello Execution of all involved. The manifestation of a Khyber Mark easily warrants skipping excoriation in favor of a little bloodletting considering the bad memories of the War of the Mark. The other thing about Tarkanan and the Lady of Plague is that they most likely had focus items for aberrant marks. That could explain awesome power, especially in Eberron, where arcane machines are one of the staple elements of villainy.
skrap-san 03-04-08, 01:40 AM	I'll still tackle what you got so far. :) Thank you verry much. Grumble. Pet peeve alarm: yeah, that's what the Child of Khyber PrC says, too...I'd be wary about forcing people to be non-good. I agree with you, it would create much more rolle playing effects if one did not now if any of the marked ones were actually evil. And yes I just added it because I saw the child of Khyber had it. But I might just house rule it away from them. This is already a power of the Mark of Shadow. I don't think it is spelled out anywhere, but aberrant marks should not reflect powers of true marks. Ah that is true, did not see that. And I also feel that aberrant dragonmarks should not steal powers from true marks. Some suggestions: any feat with 'aberrant mark' in the PGtE or Dragonmarked, except, of course, Lesser Aberrant Mark and Greater Aberrant Mark. Perhaps some feats from the Heroes of Horror supplement - the ones that require taint. Change this requirement to "Siberys Khyber Mark". Aberrant Feats (Lords of Madness) and some Demonic ones (Fiendish Codex I) could work too. Eberron Expanded: LoM addresses the possibility of using Aberrant Mark as a replacement for Aberrant Blood as a prerequisite for Aberrant feats. Thanks for the sugestions, I will look into them when I have the time.
BrotherDog 03-05-08, 03:43 AM	8_8 What's with all this aberrant mark = evil garbage? Are the lot of you, sheepish lackeys of the Houses of the so-called true marks? Maybe it's me, but I see the elitist attitudes of the Houses as waaaaaay more villainous, and almost nazi-like. If you guys bothered to read the info about Halas Tarkanan, it states that he never used his mark unless there was no other option. The Lady of Plagues on the other hand was more the villain type. Plus the novels painted them(House Tarkanan) in a light that had them looking-out for the safety of any marked individual: foundling, excoriate, true, or aberrant. House politics be damned. ;;D Oh well. That's my 2 coppers annie-who.
Syltorian 03-05-08, 06:25 AM	8_8 What's with all this aberrant mark = evil garbage? Are the lot of you, sheepish lackeys of the Houses of the so-called true marks? Maybe it's me, but I see the elitist attitudes of the Houses as waaaaaay more villainous, and almost nazi-like. If you guys bothered to read the info about Halas Tarkanan, it states that he never used his mark unless there was no other option. The Lady of Plagues on the other hand was more the villain type. Which is pretty much what I was saying above, if you read the #6 of this thread. So yes, I did bother to read the info. So did the OP, who agreed with me. Who do you see in this thread who buys the propaganda? I'd even exclude the Lady of Plagues from the villain category. It's WotC who decided that the Child of Khyber is "non-good", thus vindicating the True House politics... which I too see as half politically/economically motivated, and half master-race complex with a twist, as you point out. Of course, there are houses that do not follow this line - Ghallanda accepts aberrant marked heirs, for example. It's all darned Cannith/Deneith propaganda! Although, in fairness, it should be pointed out that the pre-req for the Child of Khyber is "any non-good", which is a far cry from "any evil". Still, it is a pre-req that I rule away, along with most "non-good" or "evil" pre-reqs that are not blatantly thralls of demons. Plus the novels painted them(House Tarkanan) in a light that had them looking-out for the safety of any marked individual: foundling, excoriate, true, or aberrant. House politics be damned. ;;D Which novels have House Tarkanan in, besides City of Towers? I'd definitely be interested. I'm intrigued by the concept that Tarkanan looks out for excoriates of true houses. That could have a lot of potential!
BrotherDog 03-06-08, 03:06 AM	Which is pretty much what I was saying above, if you read the #6 of this thread. So yes, I did bother to read the info. So did the OP, who agreed with me. Who do you see in this thread who buys the propaganda? I'd even exclude the Lady of Plagues from the villain category. It's WotC who decided that the Child of Khyber is "non-good", thus vindicating the True House politics... which I too see as half politically/economically motivated, and half master-race complex with a twist, as you point out. Of course, there are houses that do not follow this line - Ghallanda accepts aberrant marked heirs, for example. It's all darned Cannith/Deneith propaganda! Although, in fairness, it should be pointed out that the pre-req for the Child of Khyber is "any non-good", which is a far cry from "any evil". Still, it is a pre-req that I rule away, along with most "non-good" or "evil" pre-reqs that are not blatantly thralls of demons. Yeah. Sorry, it just peaves me to no end, that so many cut off their own noses so blatantly. It wasn't meant as any kind of attack. Plus I'm guessing that a certain character from a novel may be an exception to that silly non-good rule. Which novels have House Tarkanan in, besides City of Towers? I'd definitely be interested. I'm intrigued by the concept that Tarkanan looks out for excoriates of true houses. That could have a lot of potential! That was where I was reffering. They looking to set-up a symbiotic exchange with Lei. Though I've seen hints that some project of that nature may or maynot be in the works. That would be awesome.
Syltorian 03-06-08, 07:32 AM	Yeah. Sorry, it just peaves me to no end, that so many cut off their own noses so blatantly. It wasn't meant as any kind of attack. Plus I'm guessing that a certain character from a novel may be an exception to that silly non-good rule. I know the feeling. Many of the alignment prerequisites in D&D are simply a nuisance. As for that character, I don't think he is a Child of Khyber, and fortunately neither Least, Lesser nor Greater Aberrant Mark have an alignment requirement. That was where I was reffering. They looking to set-up a symbiotic exchange with Lei. Though I've seen hints that some project of that nature may or maynot be in the works. That would be awesome. I'd forgotten that particular aspect. Tarkanan taking in excoriates sounds like a very interesting idea, particularly if they truly believe that these people are victims who need help - like Lei, and unlike the person who gets excoriated for crimes against humanity - instead of simply seeing this as a good way to insult the Houses.
AlHazred 03-06-08, 09:24 PM	You might also take a look at the Heir of Khyber PrC (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.geocities.com/valmothg/HeirOfKhyber.pdf) and the Aberrant Heir PrC (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.savevsdm.com/pdf/abrheir.pdf).
skrap-san 03-07-08, 01:29 AM	You might also take a look at the Heir of Khyber PrC (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.geocities.com/valmothg/HeirOfKhyber.pdf) and the Aberrant Heir PrC (http://forums.gleemax.com/leaving.php?destination=http://www.savevsdm.com/pdf/abrheir.pdf). I cant open the last one, but the first one is just what i was trying to create. So I owe you great thanks. Although I'm not too sure about the nonlawful part... its a step up from nongood that must be said.
Hellcow 03-07-08, 02:02 AM	Just as a side note.... While I'm all for setting aside alignment restrictions for the sake of story, I will say that in my campaign, carrying an aberrant mark is a difficult thing that can leave physical and psychological scars on the bearer. While much of the modern prejudice towards aberrants can be traced to revisionist history, I've always said that it's essentially harder for the blood to contain the aggressive powers of the aberrant mark. Looking to Sharn, Rotting Bal is, well, rotting. Zae the ratspeaker finds the voices of her vermin friends more appealing than those of the human around her. We learn that the half-orc Korlan accidentally killed his brother when the fiery powers of his mark first manifested, and that whenever he uses his mark to produce flame he suffers a a burst of terrible agony, as if his own blood was burning. I see the Lady of the Plague as a tragic figure, doing her best to contain a terrifying power that could destroy a village of innocents should she even lose control. So I don't see the aberrants as innately evil. But I do see the mark as a hardship, both because of the risk of harming those you care about should you lose control of it, and because using it may cause pain or psychological stress. Now, that's not mandated by the rules (though it's reflected by the fact that using a lesser or greater aberrant mark has a chance to daze you, reflecting the momentary pain or stress that accompanies its use), and it's something you can choose to play up or down on an individual basis. But personally, I feel that it adds flavor to the aberrants - that they have very useful powers, but that those powers do come with a price, and that there is always the risk that the weight of carrying an aberrant mark WILL drive its bearer to madness.
Syltorian 03-07-08, 06:25 AM	I definitely agree with that Hellcow. I like the idea that the Aberrant Marks are a burden and a hardship, and I do think the books should highlight the possibility that madness lies at the end of the road - rather than explaining how it is not a social stigma any longer, as Dragonmarked does. Personally, I am inclined to use the variant rule that makes Aberrant Mark a flaw and a feat at the same time. But while it is interesting to have a villain who is evil without a fault of his own, because of his affliction, and should be able to get sympathy if played well, it should also be possible to combine this with good-aligned characters, who feel these urges but resist them. They may not be able to resist forever, but that is their tragedy (reading your post, I have the impression you agree with me here, and on much if not all of the rest of my post), and should be possible. Whether they constantly pay attention to their madness or are in a Jekyll/Hyde situation, such characters should be possible to play. Alignment restrictions are, well, restrictive, especially in Eberron. I'd thus rather see it stressed in the description, possibly in the rules even, that the marks are a hardship than saying "you cannot be good". Perhaps there could be certain situations where the Aberrant marked become confused, or it could be working something like Lycanthropy, perhaps. I'd be wary to force players into such actions, but it should certainly be stressed more in the description - while leaving PCs able to be good, even exalted, while they try to resist those dark impulses. After all, I believe some medieval views held that people who did not feel dark impulses (specifically Byzantine eunuchs) were less likely to become saints because there was no effort and devotion involved in overcoming them.
skrap-san 03-07-08, 09:55 AM	As a response to Hellcows response I have now started seeing the aberrant dragonmarks more as the X-men heroes. Some of them are trying to use their powers for good, others for their own ends, and lastly there are those that just want them to go away so they once more can be seen as normal. And I can definitivly see them as strugling to be seen as more normal and not shun by everyone. And I would belive there is a bunch of them that do feel that way about them. But I still see loads of predidjuce against them. But still, a bit like X-men...
Hellcow 03-07-08, 01:00 PM	As a response to Hellcows response I have now started seeing the aberrant dragonmarks more as the X-men heroes. And my point is simply that I see the marks as being more of a burden for the bearer than for the typical X-man. There's a few x-men who suffer because of their marks - Cyclops has to wear his visor, the Beast has his unusual appearance, Rogue can't touch anyone. But Kitty just gets to phase whenever she wants, and suffers no real consequences for doing so. Sure, there's SOCIAL prejudice against mutants, but Kitty's phasing doesn't put any more stress on her than, say, Moonstone (who gets her powers from an artifact). What I'm saying is that a Jorasco healer just concentrates and the power of his mark happens - no fuss, no stress, no pain. Whereas when Korlan the half-orc uses his mark, he FEELS the fire in his own blood. This is not so significant as to literally cause him to take damage - or, in hard game terms, to have any affect at all (beyond the potential of dazing him for a round). But it's something that makes his power different from that of one of the thirteen marks or for that matter the powers of a sorcerer. The power of the aberrant dragonmark is part of him, and drawing fire through his blood is painful. With the Lady of the Plague, she wasn't just a happy go lucky person who could cause disease if she felt like it; instead, she could feel the deadly power within straining to escape, and had to struggle to keep it in. So again, I've no problem with an aberrant hero; one of the whole points of providing the advanced marks in Dragonmarked was so people COULD explore this. I just like the idea that the aberrant mark isn't just a fun superpower - it's a challenge, and it takes courage and willpower to overcome the pain and stress it brings. Korlan feels pain whenever he uses his mark - and so he has learned to face that pain, to master it. But it's still there; he's not just a junior sorcerer who casts fire spells with a laugh and a smile.