Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GreatOne 07-04-07, 02:14 PM	Hi all. Ive had this idea for a long time and wondering what your thoughts on this would be. Basically my eberron game in set 100 years after the current time when the demons reign supreme again and the rajahs have taken over the world once more. One thing that the Rajahs didnt count on was the Silver Rajah. The one that was bound by a coutl that created the silver flame. Now the whole backstory to the Silver Rajah is that all the time spent with the caoult has made the Rajah bound have a change of heart. When the flame went out the caolt and the speaker of the flame (cant remember her name) passed on to the heavens while the Rajah was set free. Now he fights for the side of good and seeks to redeem himself by fighting his former allies. He has followers mainly the remenents of the flame as well as good aligned rakshasa. Now my whole point in this is how do I stat this one out? I have seen peeps giving rajahs divine ranks and I think thats a good item. How would I handle all of his abilities now thats hes good?
DarkWarriorKarg 07-04-07, 03:01 PM	If you go by the Rajahs article in dragon, then it wouldn't have Divine Rank... just all the abilities for Divine Rank 6 or 7, minus the ones for followers. What was this Rajah's portfolio/association before? How does the change of heart affect this portfolio? The portfolio and the changes would affect tactics. Suach as the "Good" rajah of Secrets working behind the scenes. Class abilities: 40 class levels So it's 12 Rajahs + this 13th one, right? How does this rajah protect its remaining followers from its bretheren?
GreatOne 07-04-07, 06:12 PM	What was this Rajah's portfolio/association before? Have no idea. I need to think about that one How does the change of heart affect this portfolio? Basically his portfoilio turns from evil and deestruction to protection and healing and fighting against the evil of his brethen The portfolio and the changes would affect tactics. The tactics would change from disorganize destruction to organized defense and attack against the evil rajahs Suach as the "Good" rajah of Secrets working behind the scenes. That could be an interesting plot twist. The silver rajah sends one of his agents to seek out the PCs and meanwhile the rajahs hear word of it and seek out the PCs to kill them while the agent of the Silver Rajah shows up and then one big fight ensues. Class abilities: 40 class levels Battle Sorcerer 13/Paladin 20/Knight of the Chalice 10 that seems to be the best combo seeing as he has 7 racial spellcasting lvls which I will turn into battle sorcerer lvls. Any other thoughts on what class lvls this guy should have as well as Divine Abilities/Powers? So it's 12 Rajahs + this 13th one, right? This rajah is the one that was bound by the caoutl which inturn created the flame. Thru out the whole time spent with the caoutl his appearance became silver and he aquired the half-celestial template thru the caoutl. How does this rajah protect its remaining followers from its bretheren? He does everything in his power to protect the followers using his protection abilities granted by the protection domain
Rerecros 07-04-07, 06:26 PM	Rajah's are living TPKs. Completely ignoring the whole issue of an ancient being of pure unrelenting malice converting to good for the moment. The idea of a good NPC if this magnitude completely ruins the whole eberron motif. There aren't supposed to be all powerful NPCs to save the day, and including it in the campain is almost as bad as a DMPC. Personally, if the rajah tainted by good is released, I would give it a very distorted world veiw. And have it try to turn eberron into a paradise through blood shed. Think Silent hill. It would create holy monsters to purge that which it sees as tainted. Edit: dispite the name, rakshasa rajah are in no way similar to regular rakshasa, and those class abilities and tempates are pointless, unless you just have to add them onto a 40 level outsider that can teleport at will, change into any shape diminutive through colossal, see/hear everything for miles, rework reality, and dominate minds effortlessly.
DarkWarriorKarg 07-06-07, 02:18 PM	Rajah's are living TPKs. Completely ignoring the whole issue of an ancient being of pure unrelenting malice converting to good for the moment. The idea of a good NPC if this magnitude completely ruins the whole eberron motif. There aren't supposed to be all powerful NPCs to save the day, and including it in the campain is almost as bad as a DMPC. Actually, it's not that bad... seeing as this powerful good NPC is way outnumbered by the evil ones, thus keeping it in check... without being cheesy about it. And note, the OP said nothing about this thing saving the day, simply acting as a bulwark against the tide of evil to allow a story based reason as to why the PCs aren't immediately crushed. In any case, even the story concept of releasing the evil that sleeps changes Eberron dramatically. The OP might want to look at the "MIdnight" game setting, which is basically "What if sauron would have won?".
Rerecros 07-06-07, 10:42 PM	:embarrass Oh, i just noticed the part about the evil rajahs on the loose. If thats the case then it's the end of days, if they are all loose then humanoids simply no longer matter. Everyone would either be dead, horribly transformed/maddened or kept alive as a demon's pet.
Edymnion 07-06-07, 11:09 PM	Yeah, that was my reaction as well. What could the PCs really do? I mean, when the uber NPC god can't hope to win, or even fight to a draw, wouldn't about the best thing the humanoids could do is cower and hide, hope that they don't draw attention to themselves so the rest of the Rajahs don't decide they're worth the effort to exterminate? It sounds like the PCs would be rather powerless, with all the action focusing on this silver rajah. Honestly, unless you plan on letting the PCs be some equally uber-powerful creatures, there doesn't sound like there's a lot of reason to play in that kind of a setting.
Logos7 07-07-07, 11:32 AM	I really Rather like the idea to tell you the truth. I think it plays on 2 rather eberron assumptions ( that things are not what they always are ( the silver rajah ) and noir kind of out matched and out gunned but I'll be damned if im not going down with out a fight. But how can the PC's do anything really. well lets look at the base campeign setting, how do you balance your pc's against the numerous evil incarnations out there that can easily smush them more or less at any time. You have evil fight itself, you have weakened allies that need avatars and hero's and dont mind supporting them. After a single rajah got loose it was a row of dominos, then they took on Reidia, Argosaan, and Xendric. and won. The Severaly weakened (Temporaly) Rajahs returned to Khoirvaire ( why out of habbit maybe, draconic prophecy maybe) to deal with their turncoat brother, and then the infighting began ( perhaps due to draconnic manipulation etc) Suddenly each rajah was seaking to make his own kingdom [Maybe the silver rajah is the rajah of pride or vanity] fighting the other rajah as hard as anyone else. The Silver rajah is able to hold it's own but has no str for anything else. The Majority of the advancements for the rajah are done threw the cultist and manipulation of the enviroment ( Time [explaining the time hopping pc's] and Season get unhinged, eternal nights etc Stray dragonshards storms etc ) The Rajah are paragons of whatever they are, Last time i checked their was no Rajah Quickneasy the Lord of Effectivness. Who says that even with divine level abilities that they are good at doing the whole villian things. So let me reinforce why i think this is kewl It explores an aspect of the setting that others dont (Rajahs) It gives the Church of the Silver Flame an Opportunity to play the good guys That whole 12+1 thing is kewl It's an possible epic advancement Introduced that whole outgunned and dont give a damn i at least associate with noir ( if only their was a gin bar far away from Khorvaire (say stormreach) where a love story could happen. as for the OMG they are gods (even without the Divine Ranks) you loose, well thats why the setting introduced eldritch machines. Anyway Lord of Blades and the Becoming God vs Silver Rajah and PC's vs the OTher Rajahs thats gold I think the WotC boards need rules for Positive threads, lets give the dude bones and not grief. Great idea ,I think im gonna filch it. Logos
GreatOne 07-07-07, 12:05 PM	Logos thanks for the upbeat attitude towards this. Go ahead and steal the idea if you wish. The game is actually going to go into epic and the PCs will become gods after I do one thing. Basically the story arc thats going on right now is that the Silver Rajah is fighting his former brethen and therefore the Rajah are not paying any attention to the lesser beings. The PCs meanwhile are searching for artifacts that when combined turn into a powerful magic item that can either turn a mortal into a god or an immortal to a mortal. That machine would help them out greatly agaisnt the onslaught of the Rajahs. My only problem is that Im going to need the stats on how to create rajahs. Whats your advice on how to create Rajahs?
Rerecros 07-07-07, 05:08 PM	My advice is don't bother stating them, anyone who fights them will either loose instantly, or win instantly thanks to a plot device. Their attack bonus is "yes" and their AC is "no". Just create specific area affects for regions under their control. for this silver rajah, I suggest he create a massive epic forcefield around thrane, that makes rajah loose their powers when they cross it, so they won't, maybe send in slaves to attack thrane though, and rakashasa to infiltrate and corrupt it. thrane is quite self sufficient, but due to the influx of refugees, conditions are post-apocalyptic. street preachers will be numerous, trying to get people to repent, join holy crusades or join the side of the rakashasa. Rak Tulkhesh is the Rage of War, PCs must make will saves to avoid going on killing sprees. all NPCs loose all rationality, become filled with paranoia and will kill each-other at the drop of a hat. People spontaneously divide themselves into factions, and try to built up it's power killing other factions, then when they win, their faction will divide and start killing each-other. Kateshka the Gatekeeper, will create a more silent hill type scenario. Utter desolation. Fog rolls in. human like creatures appear outside peoples home, and try to kill them if they leave. people can keep fighting, but eventually everyone will die, and join the undead ranks. Everyone who dies in this zone will stay on the prime, as a wholly corporeal spirits. They look exactly how they did when they were alive, and don't remember their deaths, they cannot leave this zone, and are forced to keep dying again and again. Edit: something really funny to include in this campain is traditional enemies becoming allies. except for abolithes, abberations and their dealkry masters would be enemies of the Rajah. As well as the quori. They want eberron for them selves, and will do anythoing to take it back, even ally themselves with humanoids.
Logos7 07-07-07, 10:34 PM	well rajahs are generally stated up as 6 or 7 divine rank creatures without the divine ranks, so take whatever class you think is appropiate, max it to 20 , throw in 20 levels of the next most appropiate class and then add in the divine abilities ( which you can get off the the www.d20srd.org *srd* in the divine rules section) it's essentially an Epic + character. Something i would think is interesting is createing a level 20 gestalt character and adding the divine abiblities ( stronger than your standard level 20 but you dont have to deal witth those silly epic rules except forr their broken spellcasting ) as for an magic device that makes pc's into godlings, ,may i suggest that you have to assemble peices of a green demons face? (From tomb of horrors) and when assembled the PC's dissappear and the rajah are rebound? exept maybe for 1 pc/npc jesus/herald to start the new religion? I really think distant gods are agood thing
GreatOne 07-08-07, 01:03 PM	as for an magic device that makes pc's into godlings, ,may i suggest that you have to assemble peices of a green demons face? (From tomb of horrors) and when assembled the PC's dissappear and the rajah are rebound? exept maybe for 1 pc/npc jesus/herald to start the new religion? I really think distant gods are agood thing I like the whole idea of a demons face but Im saying its peices of a key that starts the machine. what did you mean when you said the thing about the PCs disappearing? I dont quite follow that
Logos7 07-08-07, 01:24 PM	the gods are distant in Eberron, no one sees them ( at least not verifiably) so if the pc's become gods and they are still kicking around you dont have distant gods anymore it's been my own experiance that most players are happy at having "won" dnd, and most dont actually want to play as gods (it's generaelly not in the 20 level plan) sos having them disappear (especially into that face) still leaves the question, sure the rrajah are rebound but did i disintegrate or acheieve god hood. just my 2 cents Then again a huge green demon golemn with that head for a head would be preety epic L
GreatOne 07-08-07, 07:01 PM	Im planning for the PCs to actually become gods in order to destroy the Rajahs once and for all. But the question remains. What happens to all that power? My idea would be that all the power the Rajahs have are tranfered into gems like some of the Rajahs were bound into gems and then they are cast into a black hole out in space or something like that.
Rerecros 07-08-07, 07:13 PM	Im planning for the PCs to actually become gods in order to destroy the Rajahs once and for all. But the question remains. What happens to all that power? My idea would be that all the power the Rajahs have are tranfered into gems like some of the Rajahs were bound into gems and then they are cast into a black hole out in space or something like that. :doh: That is painfully bad writing. Gods do not have an active presence, they are beyond statless, they are what is, all evil actions are the result of evil gods and all good actions are caused by good gods, if they even exist. This is eberron, PCs can't become gods, it doesn't happen. But even if they did become gods, they wouldn't fight the rajah, because they'd be on a whole different level of existence. In eberron, most people are at most level 5s, a group of PCs could spend their whole lives adventuring and not get to epic, this is not forgotten realms where humans can become gods by leveling.
Dark_Rhapsody 07-08-07, 08:17 PM	:doh: That is painfully bad writing. Gods do not have an active presence, they are beyond statless, they are what is, all evil actions are the result of evil gods and all good actions are caused by good gods, if they even exist. This is eberron, PCs can't become gods, it doesn't happen. But even if they did become gods, they wouldn't fight the rajah, because they'd be on a whole different level of existence. In eberron, most people are at most level 5s, a group of PCs could spend their whole lives adventuring and not get to epic, this is not forgotten realms where humans can become gods by leveling. Don't say that Eberron MUST be like that, for a DM can make Eberron however they want. It is THEIR world. If the players enjoy campaigns with apocolyptic/god-based battles, then I don't see why not. I am using Eberron and I am having plenty of god-like NPCs (d'Vol, for example, who, in my Eberron, used an ancient spell to draw the souls traveling to the Azure Sky where they are judged to the Realm of the Dead that she created, where she uses the their essence as a way to keep herself from crumbling to dust and to fuel herself). Basically, I made d'Vol as a stronger NPC to use as the main villan of the campaign I am going to DM soon (one that is very complex and alot of it deals with the Dragon Prophecy). But, I can do these things because I enjoy epic campaigns with overwelming odds (as a DM and player) and my players do too. So, to be blunt, don't say that their idea sucks or that it doesn't make sense for Eberron, because it is the players and the dungeon masters world, and not anyone elses. P.S. You can't become a god in Forgotten Realms just by leveling. Elminster nor Szasis Tam will probably become gods, because apparently (from the whole story behind the Time of Troubles) Ao is the only one that can bestow divinity.
Rerecros 07-08-07, 10:34 PM	I am using Eberron and I am having plenty of god-like NPCs Emphasis on god-like. Gods aren't active in eberron. You can not play one, and they can't be NPCs. The Rajah are the closest thing to active god there are, but they aren't gods. And the idea that a player can take on THE physical embodiment of ancient evil in physical combat is laughable. And becoming beings of similar power to the rajah would turn them into NPCs. Beings that can reshape reality with the simplest thoughts do not make good PCs. d'Vol, for example, who, in my Eberron, used an ancient spell to draw the souls traveling to the Azure Sky where they are judged to the Realm of the Dead that she created, where she uses the their essence as a way to keep herself from crumbling to dust and to fuel herself That idea sucks and doesn't make sense for Eberron :D
Dark_Rhapsody 07-09-07, 12:26 AM	Emphasis on god-like. Gods aren't active in eberron. You can not play one, and they can't be NPCs. The Rajah are the closest thing to active god there are, but they aren't gods. And the idea that a player can take on THE physical embodiment of ancient evil in physical combat is laughable. And becoming beings of similar power to the rajah would turn them into NPCs. Beings that can reshape reality with the simplest thoughts do not make good PCs. That idea sucks and doesn't make sense for Eberron :D Why doesn't the idea make sense? It is MY campaign. It makes sense in MY Eberron. That is the type of ideas that my players find good. They like epic, broad, chosmos-spanning/-effecting campaigns. Besides, I could see d'Vol doing that because of her obsession with accension to godhood. It never says that NPCs can't become gods in Eberron, however, if that is the case in how YOU see the campaign setting, then go you. I don't care. I personally hate the idea that is presented in Eberron about what happens to the dead, and so does my players that I was discussing the idea about (just the idea of the dead all going to the same plane and then just fade into oblivion, not anything about my campaign or d'Vol). So, by revealing the truth to the PCs slowly (my players know the destination, but they don't know of the Lich Queen nor do they metaplay), they can bring down d'Vol and fulfill a prophecy that was found in the Dragon Prophecy. It never says in the Eberron Setting book that the plane of the dead was ALWAYS there, nor does it say what ACTUALLY happens to the spirits of the dead. This is my fantasy. This is my direction of Eberron, and I don't give a crap about what other people say is "right for the setting", because even the DMs Guide of the core three specifically says "This is your world." I am not saying that you shouldn't have your own campaign style, but I think it is stupid that you think that my style/idea "makes no sense" because it is different than how you see the setting.
Rerecros 07-09-07, 12:39 AM	This is my fantasy. This is my direction of Eberron, and I don't give a crap about what other people say is "right for the setting" For someone who doesn't give a crap, you sure seem hellbent on arguing your case to a stranger on the internet :dancin:
Dark_Rhapsody 07-09-07, 12:43 AM	For someone who doesn't give a crap, you sure seem hellbent on arguing your case to a stranger on the internet :dancin: Sorry man...I usually wouldn't care that much as to argue (I really don't). It has just been one of those days when I am like "grrrrrrr" for no reason whatsoever. When I get agrivated...I don't know...I become involuntary confrontational even if I don't care all that much.
^Graff 07-09-07, 09:22 PM	While I personally don't like the idea of a Rajah being converted to Good by being bound by the Silver Flame, Hindu mythology (where Rakshasas come from) does have a good Rakshasa named Vibhishana, the brother of Ravana. Vibhishana (who was inprisoned by the other Rajas for being the cause of the orginal dragon rebellion) and a small organization of silver-furred rakshasas could be used as an explanation as to why millions of years have passed and the Lords of Dust still have not succeeded in freeing their masters. You could use them as an organization that is so secret that even the Chamber can only suspect that they exist...
GreatOne 07-10-07, 01:05 PM	While I personally don't like the idea of a Rajah being converted to Good by being bound by the Silver Flame, Hindu mythology (where Rakshasas come from) does have a good Rakshasa named Vibhishana, the brother of Ravana. Vibhishana (who was inprisoned by the other Rajas for being the cause of the orginal dragon rebellion) and a small organization of silver-furred rakshasas could be used as an explanation as to why millions of years have passed and the Lords of Dust still have not succeeded in freeing their masters. You could use them as an organization that is so secret that even the Chamber can only suspect that they exist... thanks for the idea. I read the hindu mytholgoy as well. I think I will use that idea for my game. Though I need to figure out how the PCs are going to find this good Rajah.