Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rjsilverthorn 12-20-07, 06:37 AM	I'm working on a build to take my Paladin into the Argent Fist prestige class and planning to take Decisive Strike over Flurry of Blows, since it works in armor. My question is whether I'd be able to use Smite Evil on a Decisive Strike. As written my guess is no, since Smite Evil says it can be used on a normal melee attack, and Decisive Strike reads more like a special attack that uses a full round action, but I'm curious how people with more rules experience would interpret it. Also, if I can use them together, would the smite damage be doubled?
Kreistor2 12-20-07, 10:51 AM	I see nothing in the DS rules that would prevent a Smite Evil attempt in conjunction with the DS. You can combine it with a stunning attempt, so there is precedent.
rjsilverthorn 12-20-07, 11:25 AM	This is true, but there is a difference in wording between the Smite Evil and Stunning Fist wording. Smite Evil says "Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack." Stunning Fist says "You must declare you are using this ability before you make an Attack with your Unarmed Strike." So Smite specifies a normal melee attack whereas Stunning Fist simply looks for the attack to be unarmed. Considering its my character I'd certainly be happy if they did work together, I'm just trying to anticipate my DMs response the first time I try it ;) . By the way, are we the only people who post here?
Arcane Guyver 12-20-07, 02:31 PM	I don't think it'd work either, for the reasons mentioned. You could use Smite Evil with Flurry of Blows, however (as that's just a full attack with a few extra attack iterations).
Kreistor2 12-20-07, 07:12 PM	It all depends on how you define "normal". DS does more damage than normal, but it obeys all the rules for a normal attack. I don't count it as special, myself. I think that "normal" excludes Sunder, Disarm, etc, but DS is just doing extra damage. Would you disallow Smite on an attack that allows Sneak Attack damage? I wouldn't. It's a precision strike, but it's just doing more damage.
skrap-san 12-20-07, 07:17 PM	I would allow smiting with the Decisive strike, but I would not let it do double smite damage.
rjsilverthorn 12-20-07, 10:18 PM	Now there I was leaning in the opposite direction, following the general guideline of what gets multiplied on a crit. Which I guess brings up the question, does Smite multiply on a crit?
Kreistor2 12-20-07, 10:25 PM	Yes, as a non-random number added to damage, Smite damage (like power attack) multiplies on a crit. Sneak attack damage does not because it is random.
Arcane Guyver 12-21-07, 03:32 AM	It all depends on how you define "normal". DS does more damage than normal, but it obeys all the rules for a normal attack. I dunno...DS requires a full-round action and incurs a penalty on the attack roll. Sneak attack is just a damage increase on a regular attack made with a standard action (or on multiple attacks with a full-round action). Stunning Fist also doesn't require changing the way the attack is made, but is an extra effect, so it works in tandem with that as well. I think, where it all breaks down, is that DS is a way to deal the damage of two attacks with one attack roll. Allowing a smite in with that is basically granting you the ability to deal the damage of two smites for the cost of one. The PHB2 gives the Paladin an ability akin to that, but they have to give up their frackin' warhorse for it. :eek:
rjsilverthorn 12-22-07, 11:18 PM	DM ruled in favor of Smite working with Decisive Strike, he's on the fence regarding the Smite damage doubling.