Some Advice? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Some Advice? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lancer2010
04-02-07, 02:10 PM Hey everybody, I could use some advice.

My friend/DM is going to be running a campaign soon. Now, I'm going to be playing a Shifter Ranger using the archery tree.

Now, what I want some advice on is this:

I know that taking a couple of levels in fighter would help me out immensely, especially where I could take the remaining archery feats.

The problem I'm running into is that I can't really justify taking the class for any other reason than for the mechanical benefits. I checked out some other fighter type classes, but none of them really seemed to jump out.

I took a look through the ToB, and I'm really digging the Swordsage and Warblade, but there's a problem again, all the classes in it seem almost completely focused on melee combat, and I'm going for ranged.

Anyone wanna give me an awesome reason for taking fighter, or steer me towards a class that will help me out a bit?

Sorry about the rambling.
Zombomaniac
04-02-07, 03:23 PM Well for a simple fighter reason you could just say you fought a lot (about 2 levels worth) then started training as a Ranger. Real simple stuff.
Mabye you were a gladiator?
A run of the mill soldier?
Etc?
Lancer2010
04-02-07, 03:31 PM Nah, unfortunately my DM is just starting us at lvl 1.

I tried to sell the idea of lvl 2 starting, but gave that up.

I did manage to sell him on letting me have a Mithral Chain Shirt.
UnderworldLord
04-02-07, 08:19 PM Well, maybe you should start as fighter and go ranger instead of the other way around. A fighter "going wild" so to speak, seems like it would be easier than vice a versa.
ChimericalWolf
04-02-07, 08:25 PM Fighter from another melee class is the easiest thing to justify. Simply say that your character decides to focus on his fighting, to the exclusion of his rangery talents.
Bluebrush
04-02-07, 08:30 PM Seems pretty simple to me. Your character wants to be a better archer, so dedicates some training time to learning new techniques instead of hunting.

Maybe consider looking for a bowmaster to train you. Thrane's a fairly good bet.
Heck, if your character is Thranish by birth, you could justify it as the training of your youth blossoming into your new bow expertise as you level up.
Battlesmith
04-02-07, 08:31 PM Well, you could always pull a background where you were part of a small shifter community, and you've maybe had to form a sort of militia to ward off purges by the Church of the Silver Flame. Nowadays it wouldn't be so much of a worry, but maybe actually from an area just inside/outside the border of Thrane, where the threat may be bigger.

Or, while you may be more toward stealth and stalking, you lost something/someone to an enemy of some sort. Again, you may go with the Church, but maybe you were from Cyre, and seek to retake/avenge whatever it was you lost. In facing that kind of danger, your character is out to get whatever militaristic training they can, to better accomplish their goal.

If you go for the native of Cyre bit, you may be training in Breland in New Cyre, and you could very well make use of your ranger levels AND the Cyran Avenger PrC. Otherwise, I'd recommend going into the Order of the Bow Initiate PrC from the Complete Warrior book.

Anyway, hope I gave you some kind of idea.

-Battlesmith
Battlesmith
04-02-07, 08:34 PM Thrane's a fairly good bet.
Heck, if your character is Thranish by birth, you could justify it as the training of your youth blossoming into your new bow expertise as you level up.

The downside to that being he wants to play a Shifter, which wouldn't likely be openly accepted in Thrane. Being spurned by your fellow Thranish however, you might suffer some traumatic event that leads you to taking up their own favoured weapon to either show them your worth, or to show them that they made a mistake crossing you.

-Battlesmith
ChimericalWolf
04-02-07, 08:48 PM The downside to that being he wants to play a Shifter, which wouldn't likely be openly accepted in Thrane. Being spurned by your fellow Thranish however, you might suffer some traumatic event that leads you to taking up their own favoured weapon to either show them your worth, or to show them that they made a mistake crossing you.

-Battlesmith

Well, depends on the DM's vision of Thrane. Shifters can find acceptance there, particularly if they are firm believers in the Flame. A devout Flamer shifter would have a very good reason to pick up the bow.
Lancer2010
04-02-07, 08:55 PM You know, I don't know why I didn't think simply of saying, "Hey, I wanna work on archery." as my reason.

As for the Thranish swing, wouldn't work. Already told my DM that my guy comes from Stormreach. Probably gonna have some kind of history with a local drow family.
Battlesmith
04-02-07, 08:55 PM Well, depends on the DM's vision of Thrane. Shifters can find acceptance there, particularly if they are firm believers in the Flame. A devout Flamer shifter would have a very good reason to pick up the bow.

True. But since I'm not entirely sure of what his DMs vision of Thrane would be, I went with the general views of Thrane in books like ECS and the Nations book, where people would tend to be a little more closed-minded to accepting Shifters. I never said it was impossible to be accepted there as a Shifter even as is, but it's the sort of deal where you'd have to prove yourself time and again before you can be seen as only slightly trustworthy.

-Battlesmith
Battlesmith
04-02-07, 09:00 PM You know, I don't know why I didn't think simply of saying, "Hey, I wanna work on archery." as my reason.

As for the Thranish swing, wouldn't work. Already told my DM that my guy comes from Stormreach. Probably gonna have some kind of history with a local drow family.

In that case, you could stretch for being a member of the Watch for a stint. A more miltant order with formal training, they'd allow you to train with archers as opposed to the standard footsoldiers. Stormreach being as chaotic as it is, compared to other places, they'd most likely be willing to take anyone with a martial bent, at least for a trial training period.

I still say to work towards the Order of the Bow Initiate if you want to swing masterful archery in the long run.

-Battlesmith
Hideous Phidias
04-03-07, 08:58 AM In a campaign that I ran awhile back one of my players had the same problem. He played a shifter and had trouble making the most out of his character because he either had to use his feats up on shifter abilities or combat feats. He too played a ranger so what we came up was a ranger variant for him. We took out the ranger's favorite enemy abilities and replaced them with bonus feats. I know that seems like a lot but he cold only pick shifter feats fot those. It worked out well, it was like trading favorate enemy for rage, both are combat bonus.
crashbangboom
04-03-07, 02:10 PM you could always build toward weretouched master and use the ability boosts of the hybrid forms

Bear; +16 STR, +2 DEX, +8 CON.
Boar; +4 STR, +6 CON.
Rat; +6 DEX, +2 CON.
Tiger; +12 STR, +4 DEX, +6 CON.
Wolf; +2STR, +4 DEX, +4 CON.
Wolverine; +4 STR, +4 DEX, +6 CON.

I ran a weretouched tiger barbarian and had as many rages/day as shifts/day stack the two and take improved natural attack( MM ) and you have a powerhouse who with the right weapon selection can deal serious damage in melee, or at range.:fight!:
Lancer2010
04-03-07, 10:35 PM In a campaign that I ran awhile back one of my players had the same problem. He played a shifter and had trouble making the most out of his character because he either had to use his feats up on shifter abilities or combat feats. He too played a ranger so what we came up was a ranger variant for him. We took out the ranger's favorite enemy abilities and replaced them with bonus feats. I know that seems like a lot but he cold only pick shifter feats fot those. It worked out well, it was like trading favorate enemy for rage, both are combat bonus.

Hmm, this is an interesting idea.
Spotas
04-03-07, 11:40 PM Not sure if this helps but I played a ranger in 3.0 and branched off into the prestige class Deepwood Sniper. I am not sure if it even still exists, but at the end of the class progresion my arrows could reach out farther than a wizards fireball, and with the ranger spells and skills I became a total pest. I haven't seen it in 3.5 yet but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Other than Arcane Archer which you need to be an elf it is about the best archer path I have seen.
Lancer2010
04-04-07, 12:58 PM Hmmm, Spotas just reminded me of a PrC from Complete Warrior. At least I think it was CW. I'll have to check that out.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, you've been a serious help with this!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lancer2010 04-02-07, 02:10 PM	Hey everybody, I could use some advice. My friend/DM is going to be running a campaign soon. Now, I'm going to be playing a Shifter Ranger using the archery tree. Now, what I want some advice on is this: I know that taking a couple of levels in fighter would help me out immensely, especially where I could take the remaining archery feats. The problem I'm running into is that I can't really justify taking the class for any other reason than for the mechanical benefits. I checked out some other fighter type classes, but none of them really seemed to jump out. I took a look through the ToB, and I'm really digging the Swordsage and Warblade, but there's a problem again, all the classes in it seem almost completely focused on melee combat, and I'm going for ranged. Anyone wanna give me an awesome reason for taking fighter, or steer me towards a class that will help me out a bit? Sorry about the rambling.
Zombomaniac 04-02-07, 03:23 PM	Well for a simple fighter reason you could just say you fought a lot (about 2 levels worth) then started training as a Ranger. Real simple stuff. Mabye you were a gladiator? A run of the mill soldier? Etc?
Lancer2010 04-02-07, 03:31 PM	Nah, unfortunately my DM is just starting us at lvl 1. I tried to sell the idea of lvl 2 starting, but gave that up. I did manage to sell him on letting me have a Mithral Chain Shirt.
UnderworldLord 04-02-07, 08:19 PM	Well, maybe you should start as fighter and go ranger instead of the other way around. A fighter "going wild" so to speak, seems like it would be easier than vice a versa.
ChimericalWolf 04-02-07, 08:25 PM	Fighter from another melee class is the easiest thing to justify. Simply say that your character decides to focus on his fighting, to the exclusion of his rangery talents.
Bluebrush 04-02-07, 08:30 PM	Seems pretty simple to me. Your character wants to be a better archer, so dedicates some training time to learning new techniques instead of hunting. Maybe consider looking for a bowmaster to train you. Thrane's a fairly good bet. Heck, if your character is Thranish by birth, you could justify it as the training of your youth blossoming into your new bow expertise as you level up.
Battlesmith 04-02-07, 08:31 PM	Well, you could always pull a background where you were part of a small shifter community, and you've maybe had to form a sort of militia to ward off purges by the Church of the Silver Flame. Nowadays it wouldn't be so much of a worry, but maybe actually from an area just inside/outside the border of Thrane, where the threat may be bigger. Or, while you may be more toward stealth and stalking, you lost something/someone to an enemy of some sort. Again, you may go with the Church, but maybe you were from Cyre, and seek to retake/avenge whatever it was you lost. In facing that kind of danger, your character is out to get whatever militaristic training they can, to better accomplish their goal. If you go for the native of Cyre bit, you may be training in Breland in New Cyre, and you could very well make use of your ranger levels AND the Cyran Avenger PrC. Otherwise, I'd recommend going into the Order of the Bow Initiate PrC from the Complete Warrior book. Anyway, hope I gave you some kind of idea. -Battlesmith
Battlesmith 04-02-07, 08:34 PM	Thrane's a fairly good bet. Heck, if your character is Thranish by birth, you could justify it as the training of your youth blossoming into your new bow expertise as you level up. The downside to that being he wants to play a Shifter, which wouldn't likely be openly accepted in Thrane. Being spurned by your fellow Thranish however, you might suffer some traumatic event that leads you to taking up their own favoured weapon to either show them your worth, or to show them that they made a mistake crossing you. -Battlesmith
ChimericalWolf 04-02-07, 08:48 PM	The downside to that being he wants to play a Shifter, which wouldn't likely be openly accepted in Thrane. Being spurned by your fellow Thranish however, you might suffer some traumatic event that leads you to taking up their own favoured weapon to either show them your worth, or to show them that they made a mistake crossing you. -Battlesmith Well, depends on the DM's vision of Thrane. Shifters can find acceptance there, particularly if they are firm believers in the Flame. A devout Flamer shifter would have a very good reason to pick up the bow.
Lancer2010 04-02-07, 08:55 PM	You know, I don't know why I didn't think simply of saying, "Hey, I wanna work on archery." as my reason. As for the Thranish swing, wouldn't work. Already told my DM that my guy comes from Stormreach. Probably gonna have some kind of history with a local drow family.
Battlesmith 04-02-07, 08:55 PM	Well, depends on the DM's vision of Thrane. Shifters can find acceptance there, particularly if they are firm believers in the Flame. A devout Flamer shifter would have a very good reason to pick up the bow. True. But since I'm not entirely sure of what his DMs vision of Thrane would be, I went with the general views of Thrane in books like ECS and the Nations book, where people would tend to be a little more closed-minded to accepting Shifters. I never said it was impossible to be accepted there as a Shifter even as is, but it's the sort of deal where you'd have to prove yourself time and again before you can be seen as only slightly trustworthy. -Battlesmith
Battlesmith 04-02-07, 09:00 PM	You know, I don't know why I didn't think simply of saying, "Hey, I wanna work on archery." as my reason. As for the Thranish swing, wouldn't work. Already told my DM that my guy comes from Stormreach. Probably gonna have some kind of history with a local drow family. In that case, you could stretch for being a member of the Watch for a stint. A more miltant order with formal training, they'd allow you to train with archers as opposed to the standard footsoldiers. Stormreach being as chaotic as it is, compared to other places, they'd most likely be willing to take anyone with a martial bent, at least for a trial training period. I still say to work towards the Order of the Bow Initiate if you want to swing masterful archery in the long run. -Battlesmith
Hideous Phidias 04-03-07, 08:58 AM	In a campaign that I ran awhile back one of my players had the same problem. He played a shifter and had trouble making the most out of his character because he either had to use his feats up on shifter abilities or combat feats. He too played a ranger so what we came up was a ranger variant for him. We took out the ranger's favorite enemy abilities and replaced them with bonus feats. I know that seems like a lot but he cold only pick shifter feats fot those. It worked out well, it was like trading favorate enemy for rage, both are combat bonus.
crashbangboom 04-03-07, 02:10 PM	you could always build toward weretouched master and use the ability boosts of the hybrid forms Bear; +16 STR, +2 DEX, +8 CON. Boar; +4 STR, +6 CON. Rat; +6 DEX, +2 CON. Tiger; +12 STR, +4 DEX, +6 CON. Wolf; +2STR, +4 DEX, +4 CON. Wolverine; +4 STR, +4 DEX, +6 CON. I ran a weretouched tiger barbarian and had as many rages/day as shifts/day stack the two and take improved natural attack( MM ) and you have a powerhouse who with the right weapon selection can deal serious damage in melee, or at range.:fight!:
Lancer2010 04-03-07, 10:35 PM	In a campaign that I ran awhile back one of my players had the same problem. He played a shifter and had trouble making the most out of his character because he either had to use his feats up on shifter abilities or combat feats. He too played a ranger so what we came up was a ranger variant for him. We took out the ranger's favorite enemy abilities and replaced them with bonus feats. I know that seems like a lot but he cold only pick shifter feats fot those. It worked out well, it was like trading favorate enemy for rage, both are combat bonus. Hmm, this is an interesting idea.
Spotas 04-03-07, 11:40 PM	Not sure if this helps but I played a ranger in 3.0 and branched off into the prestige class Deepwood Sniper. I am not sure if it even still exists, but at the end of the class progresion my arrows could reach out farther than a wizards fireball, and with the ranger spells and skills I became a total pest. I haven't seen it in 3.5 yet but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Other than Arcane Archer which you need to be an elf it is about the best archer path I have seen.
Lancer2010 04-04-07, 12:58 PM	Hmmm, Spotas just reminded me of a PrC from Complete Warrior. At least I think it was CW. I'll have to check that out. Thanks for all the suggestions guys, you've been a serious help with this!