Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragoonDarkfire 04-09-07, 02:17 PM	I got this idea for a race while talking with a friend of mine. This was basically what we said. Me: Alright. You need to choose a race. Friend: (while reading Complete Arcane) Hey... can I have the Effigy template? Me: What? No. Friend: Why not? Me: Effigy's are constructs. Constructs do not make good PC's. Friend: but Warforged are constructs. Me: yea but they're LIVING constructs. Friend: Well why can't there be living Effigy's? So he ended up playing a Shifter but I digress. This made me come up with an interesting concept for a new PC race. Effigiles Well. I'm not saying ANYTHING but I have heard a few things from a friends cousin who told me that Merrix d'Cannith is still working on Warforged in that secret forge of his. He's not ONLY working on regular Warforged types like you see wandering the streets of the city, but NEW kinds as well. Apparently he's made a new batch that look JUST LIKE REGULAR PEOPLE! - Random Changeling Bard Effigys have been made by house Cannith for centuries. Many Artificers and Magewrights of House Cannith have Effigy guards and servants to preform menial tasks for them. While Cannith smiths enjoy making Effigy versions of various creatures none have taken a step as far as Merrix d'Cannith has in creating Effigiles. Effigiles are Effigys that are built to look as human as possible and then undergo a process similar to the creation of the Warforged, granting the constructs sentience and (what can only be described as) a soul. Merrix d'Cannith created the Effigiles to serve as spies and infiltrators for him. Since the constructs can easily disguise themselves as human it's easy for one to infiltrate a setting where a normal Warforged would be not allowed or stick out like a sore thumb. Effigiles appearance has great variation thus far. Unlike regular Warforged which were designed to be ordinary grunt solders and have a uniform appearance. Effigiles more subtle approach was dependent upon them being able to socially interact with others, as such Effigiles range in many different forms and both male and female ones exist (although this is nothing more then cosmetic appearance). Personality wise Effigiles are specially taught how to interact with other races as such they are much more friendly then there warrior counterparts. Despite their training at the hands of Cannith South, Effigiles also learn more about the world then Warforged and as such can form a much more solid opinion about things. Some view the world as corrupt and seek to make it a better place, others may make a connection between wealth/power and happiness and fulfillment and seek to gain that wealth or power any way they wish. As such alignments are more varied among them as well. Effigile adventurers are almost always ones who are let out by Merrix d'Cannith into the world to see how they survive and adapt. These ones have no memory of their creation or Merrix d'Canniths forge and may have a very difficult time understanding the world around them and why they are so different then other races. Note to DM's: The fluff presented here suggests that Merrix has only recently created the Effigiles so the number of Effigiles and whether or not they are even known of is completely up to the DM to decide. Effigile Racial Traits Construct: Effigiles are constructs with the Living Construct Subtype. Refer to the Eberron Campaign Setting for more information on Living Construct subtype. Medium: As medium creatures. Effigiles have no bonuses or penalties due to size. Effigiles Base land speed is 30ft +2 Natural Armor: Though they don't have the plating of their Warforged kin and they don't have the typical endurance of Warforged as well they are made from hard materials that offer a small amount of protection. +2 on disguise checks to disguise themselves as human: Though they have small seams at their joints in their bodies and a keen eye may spot them for what they are, Effigiles are specially trained to hide these markings and all have the innate knowledge on how to properly disguise themselves as humans. Warforged Feats: Effigiles can take a few of the feats that Warforged are allowed but they are restricted in some regards. They cannot take any body feat (Mithral Body, Adamantine Body) but they can take tracery feats (described in the Races of Eberron handbook) and any other Warforged feat. They can also use Warforged components as though they were Warforged themselves. +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Sense Motive checks: Effigiles are superbly adept at understanding the way people behave. Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: Any. Many Effigiles are trained to deal with various humanoids, as such all languages are open to them, save for secret languages (such as Druidic). Favored Class: Rouge.
LoneStranger 04-09-07, 02:26 PM	Yup, that is a strange idea for a race. It is interesting though, but I'd limit them to feats like tracery and make them unable to use components. Kinda sounds like Reforged found a way to reproduce.
DragoonDarkfire 04-09-07, 02:34 PM	Yup, that is a strange idea for a race. It is interesting though, but I'd limit them to feats like tracery and make them unable to use components. Kinda sounds like Reforged found a way to reproduce. Well these aren't constructs that tap into their living side. These are just constructs designed to look living.
Anouska 04-09-07, 06:13 PM	It's an interesting idea. However, I don't feel as if they cover any particular "niche" that isn't already covered by either changelings or warforged. In fact, if anything, they seem a -little- underpowered to me.(Given that, using a component kind of well...makes them a little easier to spot.) Also...House Cannith has little actual understanding of how the creation forges work, so creating effigiles implies some sort of deeper understanding of the creation forges than we're led to believe based on book information.(However, as you say in the DM note, effigile creation would be recent.) Again, it's an interesting idea. My only suggestion would be to second lone ranger concerning components.
korcheck 04-09-07, 06:36 PM	It's an interesting idea. However, I don't feel as if they cover any particular "niche" that isn't already covered by either changelings or warforged. In fact, if anything, they seem a -little- underpowered to me.(Given that, using a component kind of well...makes them a little easier to spot.) With that freak Merrix who says they have to fit into a niche? I can easily see him doing something like this. I also agree that they are a bit underpowered but I'm not qualified to say how to improve them.
DragoonDarkfire 04-09-07, 07:47 PM	Well I'll try a +2 natural armor bonus to empower it more.
DragoonDarkfire 04-10-07, 11:47 AM	Also...House Cannith has little actual understanding of how the creation forges work, so creating effigiles implies some sort of deeper understanding of the creation forges than we're led to believe based on book information.(However, as you say in the DM note, effigile creation would be recent.) Well my personal idea was that this was the result of Merrix getting a hold of some documents or (what's that thing... like magical blueprints?) that add onto the creation forge and then using it to create Effigiles. make them unable to use components Why? They're living constructs just like warforged and are built in a similar process. You need to remember that while it may seem stupid for one to wear an arm blade when he's an infiltrator those types of components are hardly necessary for them. And they can still benefit from things like docents and other more concealable components.
Wymarc 04-10-07, 03:31 PM	I would think the bonus on disguise would be +2 (to negate the -2 for immitating a diffrent race)
Creature_Mastermind 04-10-07, 08:39 PM	Well my personal idea was that this was the result of Merrix getting a hold of some documents or (what's that thing... like magical blueprints?) that add onto the creation forge and then using it to create Effigiles. the magical blueprints are called schemas Why? They're living constructs just like warforged and are built in a similar process. You need to remember that while it may seem stupid for one to wear an arm blade when he's an infiltrator those types of components are hardly necessary for them. And they can still benefit from things like docents and other more concealable components. and i agree parshilly with him because some components such as the Essence of Scout ECS page 269.
DragoonDarkfire 04-10-07, 09:29 PM	I would think the bonus on disguise would be +2 (to negate the -2 for immitating a diffrent race) whoops. That was a slip.
bbthereaper 04-10-07, 09:41 PM	You know, you don't have to make a new creature to get a living effigy. There's a template in Magic of Incarnum, soulfused construct, that will turn any construct into a living construct.
DragoonDarkfire 04-10-07, 09:42 PM	You know, you don't have to make a new creature to get a living effigy. There's a template in Magic of Incarnum, soulfused construct, that will turn any construct into a living construct. It seemed kinda complicated to me to apply TWO templates to a single human. I mean, how do you judge the level adjustment for something like that?
korcheck 04-11-07, 10:30 AM	You know, you don't have to make a new creature to get a living effigy. There's a template in Magic of Incarnum, soulfused construct, that will turn any construct into a living construct. That has to be the worst book they have made to date.
DragoonDarkfire 04-11-07, 10:53 AM	That has to be the worst book they have made to date. What MoI? Cause if so then I really didn't find it any more helpful then EPH.
Zombomaniac 04-11-07, 11:03 AM	That has to be the worst book they have made to date. Worst book ever!?:confused: What the hel* are you smoking? Incarnum is awsome. I know my group uses it a lot.
korcheck 04-11-07, 11:34 AM	Yes incarnum, it sucks. Lets find ANOTHER type of magic shall we since we screwed up psi and made it regular magic with a different name. Wait I got don't the Indian's believe in some sort body magic thing with their yogi's and stuff lets use that instead of fixing the problem or using our imagination.
DragoonDarkfire 04-11-07, 11:48 AM	Yes incarnum, it sucks. Lets find ANOTHER type of magic shall we since we screwed up psi and made it regular magic with a different name. Wait I got don't the Indian's believe in some sort body magic thing with their yogi's and stuff lets use that instead of fixing the problem or using our imagination. ummmmmm... well... OK... First of all: Where the HELL did you get the impression that they screwed up Psionics? For one thing you said it was "regular magic with a different name", that's not really a good excuse. Firstly because EPH was meant to transport Psionics from 3.0 to 3.5 edition. I never once used Psionics in 3.0 edition but after playing a psionic character in a campaighn with a wizard I can safely say I did a few things that our wizard wouldn't be able to pull off. Secondly: OH YES! And everyone KNOWS Arcane magic and Psychic powers are COMPLETELY wizards of the coasts idea, and it took a GREAT amount of thought and inspiration to come up with those completely original ideas... ... not.
korcheck 04-11-07, 01:48 PM	Oh, how I love a lively debate. :D Well I will promise to keep this civilized and good natured if you will lol. My issue with psi is not mechanics its flavor text if you look at the powers alot if not most are the same as spells with a different name. Mechanics-wise it is a vast improvement from 3.0. As for my issue with Incarnum my problem is that if they HAD to come up a new form of magic why couldn't they develop something original? Granted the idea of "soul" magic as I understand Incarnum to be isn't in itself a bad idea but after reading and buying the book I felt it left something to be desired but it has been so long since I picked it up I can't give you specifics. To be honest I really didn't like the whole flavor of it.
DragoonDarkfire 04-11-07, 02:09 PM	Personally I feel as though any book that dedicates itself to one type of magic is kinda lack-luster. Let's take a look for example: Players handbook: Has 9 classes and consists of options for each. EPH: One form of new magic. MoI: Also one form of magic and that's all. Now TOME OF MAGIC! That's an improvement, that's how they should make new source material. Come up with a group new flavorful forms of magic and give it options for each. Then they screwed up with Tome of Battle and only offered one new form of "blade magic". I mean really, is it that hard to come up with three martial classes with different abilities then three classes that use the same abilities?
korcheck 04-11-07, 02:50 PM	Personally I feel as though any book that dedicates itself to one type of magic is kinda lack-luster. Let's take a look for example: Players handbook: Has 9 classes and consists of options for each. EPH: One form of new magic. MoI: Also one form of magic and that's all. Now TOME OF MAGIC! That's an improvement, that's how they should make new source material. Come up with a group new flavorful forms of magic and give it options for each. Then they screwed up with Tome of Battle and only offered one new form of "blade magic". I mean really, is it that hard to come up with three martial classes with different abilities then three classes that use the same abilities? YEA!!:cheer: Someone agrees with me! That is my problem as well If they are going to do what IMHO is a drastic fix for the fighter class why did they stop? If the idea of MoI had been incorperated into something else I may have been able to get behind it or at least the book it was folded into. :D
Zombomaniac 04-11-07, 03:20 PM	YEA!!:cheer: Someone agrees with me! That is my problem as well If they are going to do what IMHO is a drastic fix for the fighter class why did they stop? If the idea of MoI had been incorperated into something else I may have been able to get behind it or at least the book it was folded into. :D So if they made another Tome of Magic dedicated to Incarnum, Psionics, and "Blade magic" then you would be yelling "W00T! That is da L33T sause right there!"? That makes no sense to me. Now i wont deny that I think they could have done Incarnum a little better and "Blade Magic" a lot better, but Incarnum is still awsome without question. [EDIT] The idea behind DnD is to provide very diverse martial for us to work with. Diverse as in wide, huge, more then enough. One simple magic system (i.e. Arcane/Divine magic system) is not as diverse as DnD should be. You have no idea how often my new players and old players complain about how stupid it is that they can cast 2 level 9 spells, but when they’ve cast all their level 3 spells they are done even though they haven’t cast any level 9s. Isn’t that Arcane/Divine energy for those level 9s the same Arcane/Divine energy for those level 3 spells? Then why can’t they sacrifice a level 9 spell that day to cast 3 more level 3s? Don’t get me wrong I love Arcane/Divine magic, but hey it makes little sence. Psionics provides a system that makes sense. You want to put all your energy into level 3 powers? You can. You want to put it all into one big level 9? You can. Incarnum is the same way. You get points instead of “per days.” As far as Blade magic, True Name, Shadow, and Binding I like the ideas behind them and think that Shadow and Binding where done very well, but Blade and True Name I felt were lacking.
DragoonDarkfire 04-11-07, 03:38 PM	So if they made another Tome of Magic dedicated to Incarnum, Psionics, and "Blade magic" then you would be yelling "W00T! That is da L33T sause right there!"? That makes no sense to me. Now i wont deny that I think they could have done Incarnum a little better and "Blade Magic" a lot better, but Incarnum is still awsome without question. Well It's not that. It's just that I would rather spend my money on a book including all 3 instead of three very thin books including only 1 each.
Zombomaniac 04-11-07, 03:47 PM	Well It's not that. It's just that I would rather spend my money on a book including all 3 instead of three very thin books including only 1 each. You speak as if the corporation wants to save us money. :rimshot: So what you dont having anything against Psionics, Incarnum, or Blade magic them selves, but only the idea of "one book, one magic?"
korcheck 04-11-07, 04:12 PM	No, as I stated I don't like the Incarnum as a whole what I was trying to say was that if they had come out with a book that had a bunch of styles in it and incarnum had been one of them I would have bought that book happily. It might not have changed my PERSONAL likes or dislikes of that particular form but I wouldn't have felt that I had wasted my money. That was the book that made me stop buying just ANY book that they put out and actually start scanning them first so I suppose that the loss of money was my fault in that reguards. But, again I can't give a precise reason for not liking the system because I haven't read it again since I bought it.
DragoonDarkfire 04-11-07, 04:12 PM	You speak as if the corporation wants to save us money. :rimshot: So what you dont having anything against Psionics, Incarnum, or Blade magic them selves, but only the idea of "one book, one magic?" Pretty much yea.
Werebat 04-11-07, 05:31 PM	Umm, back to the original topic, actually I forgot there IS an example of at least one member of such an "android race" existing in the "City of Towers" books. To say more might be spoilers and I don't know how to make those clever black bars to hide the text. - Ron ^*^
korcheck 04-11-07, 05:33 PM	Oh know wererat has jumped into the thread well there goes the neighborhood...:D JK!
DragoonDarkfire 04-11-07, 05:54 PM	Umm, back to the original topic, actually I forgot there IS an example of at least one member of such an "android race" existing in the "City of Towers" books. To say more might be spoilers and I don't know how to make those clever black bars to hide the text. - Ron ^*^ Try this. SPOILER Insert spoiler. SPOILER
korcheck 04-11-07, 05:59 PM	?????
Werebat 04-11-07, 06:33 PM	Oh know wererat has jumped into the thread well there goes the neighborhood...:D JK! Heh, do I know you from... Somewhere else? - Ron ^*^
Werebat 04-11-07, 06:37 PM	[QUOTE=DragoonDarkfire;12062389]Try this. QUOTE] OK... SPOILER The female artificer character in the City of Towers books is revealed in the third book to be a sort of construct crafted by a married couple who were renegade artificers of House Cannith, and wanted a daughter but couldn't produce one the "normal" way. She was raised to believe she was human and even has a fake dragonmark to cover up her abilities she has as a construct. The mechanics of her "race" aren't explained, but she seems to bleed like a human when injured. Her body has mysterious self-healing powers as well, apparently ressurrecting itself once and regenerating or healing a finger another time. It's possible that she's more of a homunculous than a machine. - Ron ^*^
Raziel_Brokodar 04-11-07, 07:38 PM	Try this. SPOILER Insert spoiler. SPOILER or [sblock] and of course close the tag with [/sblock ]
Zombomaniac 04-11-07, 10:02 PM	or [/spoiler ] [spoiler] without the extra spaces of course.
korcheck 04-12-07, 12:59 PM	Heh, do I know you from... Somewhere else? - Ron ^*^ Nope you just happen to be up there on my top 5 list of favorite posters.
Werebat 04-12-07, 04:17 PM	Nope you just happen to be up there on my top 5 list of favorite posters. Already, I'm getting this? Hum. You sure you've never been to rec.games.frp.dnd? - Ron ^*^
korcheck 04-12-07, 06:21 PM	I'm positive, I've never been there. seriously my top 5 favorites for information and or just good reading are in no particular order; you, edy., under., goblin., and myself. :D
Werebat 04-12-07, 10:30 PM	I'm positive, I've never been there. seriously my top 5 favorites for information and or just good reading are in no particular order; you, edy., under., goblin., and myself. :D Well, thanks. I've been a regular at rec.games.frp.dnd for years now, and would have expected anyone who found my posts to their liking to have been from that newsgroup. Should be posting here more often now that I'm gonna be running an Eberron game (and playing in another one) in the near future! :^) - Ron ^*^
Sephiroth Do'Urden 04-13-07, 07:55 AM	:twocents: Korcheck, even if you don't like MoI yourself it dosen't change the fact that the book launched a tremendosly useful and tasteful new magic system into DnD! The blend of fluff and crunch is perfect, as are the classes (Well, perhaps not the Soulborn:D) and the options for nonmeldshapers. Quite a few of us love Incarnum y'know... That being said however, I love ToM and ToB too! Just not as much.:twocents:
korcheck 04-13-07, 11:24 AM	:twocents: Korcheck, even if you don't like MoI yourself it dosen't change the fact that the book launched a tremendosly useful and tasteful new magic system into DnD! The blend of fluff and crunch is perfect, as are the classes (Well, perhaps not the Soulborn:D) and the options for nonmeldshapers. Quite a few of us love Incarnum y'know... That being said however, I love ToM and ToB too! Just not as much.:twocents: I have only stated my own opinion there's no one telling you that you must do and feel as I do if you enjoy it great. I'm glad that you are able to use it and have fun with it but I don't end of discussion if I came off the wrong way in the beginning I'm sorry for offending but I won't change the statement as it is a matter of personal preference.
Sephiroth Do'Urden 04-14-07, 04:10 PM	Don't worry about it. I am not saying that you cannot have your own opinion, allright? I just wanted to say my part. And that part is preatty much illustrated in my sig!:D