Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jewelprotector 08-16-07, 03:16 PM	All right, I've gotten a lot of good feedback from my Changeling thread. Now lets address the warforged. I think that much of Eberron takes the practical application of magic to its logical conclusion. I have no problem with that. But the warforged remind me of mecha. And I just DO NOT like mecha, despite being an anime fan. I KNOW the resemblance is only superficial. But tell me why I should look beneath the surface. Your comments are appreciated.
Rechan 08-16-07, 03:36 PM	I too hate Mecha, but I do not mind WF. For something to be mecha, it would need to be able to be piloted. To me, WF are more like... remember the orc-things that Saruman made for Sauron? WF are more like non-biological versions of those: soldiers, not artillery. I'm not a WF fanboy, but I like them from a visual point of view. The next step from "Guy in full plate" is "Guy who is full plate". Also, it's enjoyable to roleplay someone who is somewhat confused or lost with themselves. Not in an emo way, but more in the alien "finding out how to live" way. From a DM perspective, WF are nice opponents, because they can function a lot like Undead. Except that they don't have the weaknesses that undead have, and your PCs are likely not as used to WF. They can be just as creepy without being overdone by countless years of adventuring and exposure. In addition, WF immediately are tied in with House Cannith, the Last War, and the Lord of Blades, which are two really easy ways to generate plots and background.
Nived 08-16-07, 03:39 PM	They're not robots, in fact they're not mechanical in any way. They're 90% made of organic material, root like muscular bundles that make up their body and frame. Their joints are again not made of clockwork, cogs, or gears. They are covered by metal and stone, but that's only their 'skin'. So no I don't think mecha is valid at all. More like sentient wood golems with nailed on armor.
eehamburg 08-16-07, 03:41 PM	Warforged are not robots. Warforged are not robots. They are sentient organic beings who resemble constructs at best. Read up on warforged before you make the broad sweeping statement that they are robots or mecha. They are a created race whose purpose was for war. Now they don't have that anymore. They are like the samurai who lost their positions and status in the 1800s because of changes within the Japanese political structure. They are looking for a sense of purpse. They can learn and adapt and change. they are specialized and do anything that any other race can do.
Alex_ 08-16-07, 03:43 PM	Warforged are what happens when you breath life (not just animation, but actual life like other creatures) into a Shield Guardian. They were built through the hands of other creatures, but their feelings, intelligence, and other traits are not artificial. They don't have programming as much as they have instincts. The main appeal of Warforged is exploration of what it is to live and be a living thing. Members of all other races are essentially born, go through a childhood, and move on into adulthood, taking their life and mortality for granted. Warforged are beings grown in vats and forges. They did not undergo a period of infancy, but instead, were born with intelligence and reasoning capabilities roughly comparable to a child or teenager, but without any prior context to back it up. Within a few months, they're expected to be the emotional and intellectual equivalent of a responsible and fully functional adult. Also, Warforged were born for a purpose which is generally different from that of all the other races. They were born specifically to do as they were told- to work, to fight, and to be productive and contributive to beings with whom they had no previous ties, and more than likely, no future ties. They have a greatly reduced libido (the non-sexual kind, although they're greatly dulled to sexuality/sensuality too), an appreciation of most aesthetics, understanding of subtlety and nuance, and individuality. Although they do think more like the other races than some realize, they are also still quite different in ways that many people don't acknowledge. Being a Warforged isn't like being a person with amnesia. It's not like being a kid. It's not necessarily being stupid. It requires you to go back and actually think about all the things you take for granted, and how one who never knew any of that would respond to situations as a result. Being a Warforged is like being thrust into an alien world, where everything is different, and people are going on about their lives quite aware of phenomena, facts, and aspects of existence to which you yourself are complete ignorant or greatly deadened, and what you want to do is often considered inappropriate outside of specific contexts. What's more, they have particular expectations and preconceived notions of you. Even comparing them to war veterans and children does little to put what being a Warforged is really like into trully proper context. In a sense, it'd probably be easier to roleplay their actions than to roleplay their thought processes.
Jewelprotector 08-16-07, 03:51 PM	Warforged are not robots. Warforged are not robots. They are sentient organic beings who resemble constructs at best. Read up on warforged before you make the broad sweeping statement that they are robots or mecha. I know warforged are not robots. I know they are not mecha. Try reading my actual words before you reply. I said that I was aware that the resemblance was, at best, superficial. If you don't have anything helpful to say, either go somewhere else or prepare to be ignored.
eehamburg 08-16-07, 03:51 PM	What Alex just said is an excellent example and explanation of what it means to be a Warforged. :w00t: :cheer: :bow: :clap: :bravo:
Nived 08-16-07, 04:00 PM	I know warforged are not robots. I know they are not mecha. Try reading my actual words before you reply. I said that I was aware that the resemblance was, at best, superficial. If you don't have anything helpful to say, either go somewhere else or prepare to be ignored. You asked "I KNOW the resemblance is only superficial. But tell me why I should look beneath the surface." The answer "THAT THEY"RE NOT FREAKING ROBOTS!" is valid. Of course "Stop being shallow and superficial." would also be.
Jewelprotector 08-16-07, 04:06 PM	Alex: Excellent post that gives me something to work with. Some others...maybe not so much. I'll keep checking back from time to time, so keep posting, folks!
Alex_ 08-16-07, 04:08 PM	You asked "I KNOW the resemblance is only superficial. But tell me why I should look beneath the surface." The answer "THAT THEY"RE NOT FREAKING ROBOTS!" is valid. Of course "Stop being shallow and superficial." would also be. I think what Jewel is looking for is an answer to something like, "If Warforged aren't robots, what are they? How does what they are make them different from a robot (or an Elf, or a Gnome, or a Human) other than mechanics and asthetics?"
Jewelprotector 08-16-07, 04:20 PM	I think what Jewel is looking for is an answer to something like, "If Warforged aren't robots, what are they? How does what they are make them different from a robot (or an Elf, or a Gnome, or a Human) other than mechanics and asthetics?" Thank you. That is indeed my point. I bow to your grace and wisdom. :bow:
Garden_State_Gamer 08-16-07, 05:09 PM	Asking why warforged are cool is like asking why Strong Bad (http://www.homestarrunner.com/vcr_sb.html)fights for the side of Awesome. They are almost singlehandedly the embodiment of the world of Eberron. Remnants of the Last War? Warforged. Importance of Dragonmarked Houses? Warforged. Pervasive nature of arcane arts and technology? Warforged. For that matter, the importance of Artificers? Warforged. Excuse to charge recklessly and/or heroically into battle? Action points laced Warforged Juggernaut. Flying ships and undead armies have found their place in other literature. Warforged, though similar to Shield Guardians and other froms of golems, are an evolution in fantasy characters.
LoneStranger 08-17-07, 02:51 AM	How are Warforged not like robots or mecha? Well how they're built mainly... But moving on to the actual question at hand, the biggest thing is the fact that Warforged can actually embrace all the trappings and sensations of the organic races (through the Reforged PrC), move away from all of that and embrace their construct heritage (through the Juggernaut PrC), or try to maintain the middle ground (by taking neither one). It's actually an interesting way to look at things, a weapon trying to survive in a time of peace. Especially if handled correctly by the GM it can be interesting to see the general public's reaction to a Warforged. Are they hailed as the saviors of that nation during the final days of the Last War? Are they hated for taking part in a massacre in that part of the world? What about the people who aren't working because of the tireless nature of the Warforged? And what about those who only have rumors and stories to go on? The Warforged are one of the few races that still have the potential to shape public opinion of themselves, any one Warforged operating in public can either enhance or damage the overall opinion for all of them still. That's not something you see everyday in too many other game settings.
Michael_Silverforge 08-17-07, 10:53 AM	Madame Jewelprotector, Again, GAME FLAVOR. If the thought of not having to worry about eating, drinking, breathing and all the logistics that go with that appeals to you, then Warforged are cool. If the thought of playing LCDR Data from "Star Trek, The Next Generation" sounds like fun, then Warforged are cool. If the idea of having a childs sense of wonderment in an adult, theoretically lives forever, body sounds good, then Warforged are cool. If the concept of eventually playing a fighting construct appeals to you, then Warforged are cool. If not then that's still cool too.
ArcTan 08-18-07, 02:23 AM	All right, I've gotten a lot of good feedback from my Changeling thread. Now lets address the warforged. I think that much of Eberron takes the practical application of magic to its logical conclusion. I have no problem with that. But the warforged remind me of mecha. And I just DO NOT like mecha, despite being an anime fan. Er, they're not mecha, in the literal sense, because they don't have human pilots sitting around in them controlling them.
ArcTan 08-18-07, 02:28 AM	I think what Jewel is looking for is an answer to something like, "If Warforged aren't robots, what are they? How does what they are make them different from a robot (or an Elf, or a Gnome, or a Human) other than mechanics and asthetics?" The word "robot" doesn't have a clear enough definition (being, primarily, a fictional term used in all kinds of contexts) to say that Warforged aren't robots. If you like robots, and you want Warforged to be robots, then fine, they're robots. If you don't like robots, then whatever it is *specifically* you don't like about robots doesn't need to apply to WF in Eberron (and probably doesn't apply to a good chunk of robots in science fiction). The main thrust of most "WF aren't robots" discussions ends up being that unlike with certain sci-fi depictions of robots, there is no way to directly plug a computer into a Warforged's data port and "reprogram" the Warforged, nor can Warforged be freely rebuilt and physically modified the way some sci-fi robots can (you can't just rip off a WF's arm and put a cannon there -- it *hurts* and is *bad* for WF to lose limbs just as much as for us). However, to make a comparison between WF and other representations of robots/androids/automata/artificial men/golems in fiction isn't out of place. If you like the Cylons in Battlestar Galactica or Data from Star Trek or the robots from Asimov's Foundation series or the Golems from Terry Pratchett's Discworld, the Warforged would not be out of place among that merry crew. Never mind the nuts-and-bolts of how they work -- when have we ever gotten a *real* explanation from that in any fictional source about robots? The point of WF is that they're artificial people whose minds are simpler than those of natural people, who were produced for a very specific task but now have to face a life beyond that task, and are struggling to learn by artifice and rote all the things natural people just know as part of living that life.
DarkPawn 08-18-07, 11:09 AM	Well to get back to the O.P.'s original question, not bash over semantics like many trolls are apt to do... Warforged are cool because they're different. I loved the background, and the tragedy I see in their future. They are basically a race that will most likely (unless things change) be a race that slowly fades away. They are doomed to fade out, since they don't reproduce and except for two creation forges, aren't going to be replicated in quantities enough to keep them around for eternity. When a warforged dies, it is a terrible loss. Even much more then any other race. Beyond the tragic storyline (my view), I see them as interesting to roleplay. It is like the movie "The Island", where they are created as adults but are somewhat like children. Being fairly young and inexperienced to the world and emotions. I love my warforged wizard for the following reasons: 1) bonus constitution (wizard likey) 2) 25% immunity to sneak attack and criticals (I plan on taking improved resistance to up it to 50%) Very nice for anyone but wizard likey a lot 3) I can heal myself with repair spells as a wizard. Likey likey 4) Don't have to sleep (amazing how useful this is), imagine what you could do with an extra 8 hours a day 5) Immunities (poison, paralysis, energy drain, etc..) very nice for anyone. 6) Composite plating or better (that can be enchanted as armor) Wizards can't wear armor without arcane spell failure; however, with mithril body or composite and a simple twilight enchantment, ASF isn't that big of a deal if at all. Nice as a wizard. 7) Warforged components. This is huge, magical items that are unable to be removed (may even look like a part of you and not easily discerned) unless you are incapacitated. Have a spellshard or two and want them on you at all times, embed them. Wand sheath is amazing, and battlefist is just cool no matter what class you are. 8) Docents, are just cool...enough said 9) Don't have to eat or drink, removes a part of basic gameplay that many ignore anyway. At least now I have a reason to never pack a lunch or worry about dehydration. 10) Hard to discern what class you are. Since you don't wear armor, and can use your body as a weapon. Warforged aren't so easily identified as their roles in a group as another character might be. Again not huge, but handy. 11) They just look cool. Well some of my reasons why I think warforged are cool.
Edymnion 08-18-07, 05:39 PM	How does what they are make them different from a robot (or an Elf, or a Gnome, or a Human) other than mechanics and asthetics?"Okay, wait, what? "How is this race differant from other races, other than the rules that govern them and their flavor text." Its a D&D game, mechanics and asthetics are the only things that define the races. If we can't make an argument based off the rules, and we can't make an argument based on the way they look/act/etc, then there is nothing left we can make an argument on.
Alex_ 08-19-07, 05:20 PM	Okay, wait, what? "How is this race differant from other races, other than the rules that govern them and their flavor text." That's not what I said. "If Warforged aren't robots, what are they? How does what they are make them different from a robot (or an Elf, or a Gnome, or a Human) other than mechanics and aesthetics?" Flavor text is a whole different beast, and can tell us much more about a creature, it's history, current culture, and psychology than the stat block, image and simple physical description in the Monster Manual can. There's a reason why some people may like Forgotten Realms Elves, but be put off by Eberron's Elves, while likeing Eberron's Gnomes and hating those in Faerun. It's more than their stats and physical appearance. Its a D&D game, mechanics and asthetics are the only things that define the races. If we can't make an argument based off the rules, and we can't make an argument based on the way they look/act/etc, then there is nothing left we can make an argument on. I'd call that assertion into question considering I (and others long before me) have answered the question without referring to mechanics concerning Warforged's racial traits or a physical description.
Jewelprotector 08-20-07, 08:40 AM	Please, people, lets not get into this sort of argument. It just wastes my time to read it and does nothing to back up any reasons you might give me for why warforged are cool. Which was the whole purpose of posting this thread. Thank you.
Alex_ 08-20-07, 12:09 PM	Please, people, lets not get into this sort of argument. It just wastes my time to read it and does nothing to back up any reasons you might give me for why warforged are cool. Thank you. It's clarification, not an argument. If the only responses you get when asking for information on a race, class, etc is their mechanics and some art, you're only getting a fraction of what the race/class/etc is.
Jewelprotector 08-20-07, 01:14 PM	Except it's making things about as clear as mud, for me. If there's something I really feel needs to be clarified or explained, I'll ask. Really. Sorry. My mate just reminded me that I'm not the only person probably reading this thread. Carry on.
nyysjan 08-20-07, 01:29 PM	In a shadowy corner of a crumbling barrack of what had once been a small Brelish outpost near Cyran border, a fierce looking warforged called Fortress stood quietly, its once fierce eyes dead and grip on its weapon loose. "i was made for war, a weapon, a warrior, a tool of endless battle." "WAR IS OVER" "I had a purpose, mission, a reason for being." "WAR IS OVER" "what am i now?" "WAR IS OVER" "to fight, is to live, to exist, is to fight." "WAR IS OVER" "peace?" "WAR IS OVER" "peace is for the dead." "WAR IS OVER" "Am i dead?" "WAR IS OVER" "Am i?" "WAR IS OVER" It had stood there for almost 2 years, the message playing itself in its head, the declaration of peace, and the end of war, unmoving, ever silent, without orders or purpose, unable to cope with the change in its life, Fortress just stands, waiting, not even sure of what, but still, waiting and waiting, and waiting. that's just one thing a warforged might be, no more war, no more battle, the purpose for what they were made is taken from them, the structure within wich they have lived their short lives is gone, they are free, without truly knowing what freedom is, in a world filled with things they can't comprehend. what's cooler than that? (other than changeling spies and gnome assassins)
justjarjar 08-21-07, 08:36 PM	In many books they don't say what the camender did, what he came back too it usely just ends. Unter example is Paton you don't see a book devoted to his life after WWII. They talk about war and how he changed the out come. I think the warforged is like patton or any fantsy soldier who started in war, then it stoped. What dose he do? That is what a warforged is. It might seem to be a constrct pasted with human, but in sole it is the solder with a life to live but no way to live it.:fight!:
Daydreamer 08-21-07, 11:51 PM	they are not cool, they are not uncool, its like asking why is elves cool, it sup 2 . I have to confess i dont particularly like warforged as pcs, but i find they make a good background element to the world that fits the flavor of eberron, its as simple as that for me.
LoneStranger 08-22-07, 02:03 AM	I think what Jewel is looking for is an answer to something like, "If Warforged aren't robots, what are they? How does what they are make them different from a robot (or an Elf, or a Gnome, or a Human) other than mechanics and asthetics?" Okay, wait, what? "How is this race differant from other races, other than the rules that govern them and their flavor text." Its a D&D game, mechanics and asthetics are the only things that define the races. If we can't make an argument based off the rules, and we can't make an argument based on the way they look/act/etc, then there is nothing left we can make an argument on. I must admit I was confused too. That's not what I said. "If Warforged aren't robots, what are they? How does what they are make them different from a robot (or an Elf, or a Gnome, or a Human) other than mechanics and aesthetics?" Flavor text is a whole different beast, and can tell us much more about a creature, it's history, current culture, and psychology than the stat block, image and simple physical description in the Monster Manual can. There's a reason why some people may like Forgotten Realms Elves, but be put off by Eberron's Elves, while likeing Eberron's Gnomes and hating those in Faerun. It's more than their stats and physical appearance. I'd call that assertion into question considering I (and others long before me) have answered the question without referring to mechanics concerning Warforged's racial traits or a physical description. Ok it looks like what you're going for is something like trying to find the reason why player A is a fan of Dwarves, player B is a fan of Elves, player C is a fan of Humans, and player D is a fan of whacked out creatures that have a level adjustment of at least 5. I do have to agree the flavor text does go a long way to helping find what you're looking for in a race to portray you in the game world. Except it's making things about as clear as mud, for me. If there's something I really feel needs to be clarified or explained, I'll ask. Really. Sorry. My mate just reminded me that I'm not the only person probably reading this thread. Carry on. Actually I do understand the confusion, and even though you do understand why this has gone in the direction it's going this is actually beneficial to your original question too. It gives a chance for additional answers to your question to come to light.
gensuke626 08-25-07, 09:32 PM	Warforged Druid who walks up to Oalian. WF-"I am Not a Natural Creature." O - "That is Correct, young druid." WF-"If I am not a part of the Natural order, why does nature choose me to be it's champion?" O - "That is for you and those like you to ponder. Now go and seek the truth of your existence." I like to look at warforged from the point of view of "What can I do with them when I roleplay?" I think my favorite character that I've designed is named Axe. Warforged Fighter 2 / Bard 1. Adamantine Body feat. Background Outline - After the Treaty of Thronehold was made official, Axe found himself without a job or purpose. It took many months, but he found his calling in a Tavern late one night. Axe wishes to express himself through the music that Bards weave, fully aware that his clumsy fingers will only ever play the most mediocre of songs.
RogueElement 08-26-07, 01:51 PM	I love the idea of golem soldiers and Warforged is a great name for a golem soldier. What's not to like? I don't like mecha either, but unless they come up with a transformer warforged, I don't see the connection.
Jewelprotector 08-27-07, 08:09 AM	It's not that there is a connection at all. It's just that my eyes see a roughly humanoid figure, seemingly made out of non-fleshy substance, with a name that implies "weapon of mass and/or personal destruction," and my brain thinks, "Ah, mecha." I know it's wrong. I'm working on changing my brain's automatic reaction. It's been slow going, but this thread's helping a lot.
DarkPawn 08-27-07, 09:18 AM	Warforged were just different. A unique character concept. That was my biggest draw to the race. Everybody and their brother played a drow. aasimar, tieflings, cambions, elves, dwarves, all done a million times over. There is no real stereotypical warforged. When you think elves you now have modern culture telling you how an elf should act or a dwarf. Picture LotR, the books or movie. Warforged had so much flexibility as to how you could play them.
Alex_ 08-27-07, 12:26 PM	It's not that there is a connection at all. It's just that my eyes see a roughly humanoid figure, seemingly made out of non-fleshy substance, with a name that implies "weapon of mass and/or personal destruction," and my brain thinks, "Ah, mecha." I know it's wrong. I'm working on changing my brain's automatic reaction. It's been slow going, but this thread's helping a lot. Well it also helps if you're familiar with their make-up and terminology that's not used. They're like living things built from plant, stone, and metal, kind of like the Colossi from Shadow of the Colossus. They're born in vats and kind of amass from available material before crawling out. There's not an actual person putting to gather pieces, attaching and securing them, or deciding what parts go where, and this is largely why Warforged have traits that your wouldn't expect or be considered ideal in a construct bred solely for war. They had general plans, the ingredients, and the means to combine them all (the creation forge) but weren not 100% sure on every aspect of what they would create. To use an anime reference, you could think of the creation kind of like trying to make a Human, Chimera, or a Humoculus in Full Metal Alchemist. After they're "born", Warforged continue to grow and change. Their body can change without outside modification. They can grow spikes and their body composition can shift around, they can get stronger, more dexterous, or tougher over time. Lop off a limb or kill them, and they don't just stay there for all eternity. They start to slowly waste away like any other creature, rather than remain intact like Constructs and Undead. There's no steam, no gears, no motors, no wires, no electricity, or the like. There's no analogue to a computer, or any kind of power source, not even a magical one. There are no sensors or any parts ending in "-ator" or "-tron". When you "repair" them which actually uses crafting, you don't use screwdrivers and wrenches, you use... well whatever the heck those things are in the Warforged repair kit (they look like wands and arcane widgets and whatnot) and it's more like restoring a wagon wheel or working with metal or performing surgery than fixing a machine. They are really living things, only they have pieces in them that organic. However, these pieces weren't added after the fact.
LoneStranger 08-27-07, 03:58 PM	Really thinking of a Warforged and thinking magic powered robot is a lot more common than you would think. Some of the most common comments made in our Eberron game tend towards the robotic. The character I play is low on HP: "MECHANIC!" The PCs have some downtime so my character is going to fix himself: "Off with the cresent wrench again huh?" or something similar. Basically knowing the difference and being able to recognize the difference is very much key, and by asking the question in the first place that's taking a very good step in the right direction.
LordofNightmares 08-27-07, 05:19 PM	I like the Warforged because I am a huge fan of the megaman series and Warforged are magic-born reploids. I know its a shallow reason to like them, but thats why I do.
ArcTan 08-28-07, 12:44 AM	It's not that there is a connection at all. It's just that my eyes see a roughly humanoid figure, seemingly made out of non-fleshy substance, with a name that implies "weapon of mass and/or personal destruction," and my brain thinks, "Ah, mecha." I know it's wrong. I'm working on changing my brain's automatic reaction. It's been slow going, but this thread's helping a lot. There's no plucky Japanese teenagers in colorful uniforms sitting inside of them. That's the main difference.
Dragoloth 08-29-07, 03:10 PM	IMO the coolest thing about warforged is the concept. Sentient beings forged for war, who now must find a new role in the world. A warforged can be roleplayed with no preconcieved notions of how the should act. Then think about that the creation forges came from X'endrik, and there may be centuries old warforged still there. Lots of roleplay potential. The components and body mods(warforged feats that modify i.e. silver tracery, jaws of death, improved DR, ect...) give the warforged even more flavor.
Tamujin 09-01-07, 03:13 PM	I read alot of "they are not robots because they are more like golems" or other arguments in that direction. In my opinion Golems are the robots from the D&D world (including eberron). even if it has a mind of its own, it doesn't take away how he is constructed. he is a construct, ok... not entirely mechanical, but lots of parts are. my way of thinking just has a really hard time to accept that robots (I know you think they aren't robots) can think. "i was made for war, a weapon, a warrior, a tool of endless battle." "WAR IS OVER" "I had a purpose, mission, a reason for being." "WAR IS OVER" "what am i now?" "WAR IS OVER" "to fight, is to live, to exist, is to fight." "WAR IS OVER" "peace?" "WAR IS OVER" "peace is for the dead." "WAR IS OVER" "Am i dead?" "WAR IS OVER" "Am i?" "WAR IS OVER" This is quite touching... this is something that makes me think: WF are great roleplaying oppertunities... it has opened me a bit more for WF. And as for this: what's cooler than that? (other than changeling spies and gnome assassins) Halfling Ninjas ofcourse.
Closet_Nerd 09-02-07, 10:43 AM	A few points: Warforged as golems- golems are created by wizards & sorcerers, in fact nearly any arcane spell caster knowing the required spells can create a golem. No arcane spell caster can create a warforged. No arcane spell caster has the ability to grant a construct "the spark of life". With out a powerful artifact (the creation forges) the warforged would not be. Warforged as robots- they have no internal moving parts. I believe it is mentioned in one of the books (ECS or RoE) that the warforged do not bleed. They have no fluids, no lube, no fuel. In this respect i think they are more akin to medium sized humanoid armor plated treants.
LordofNightmares 09-03-07, 06:22 AM	Warforged as Golems: Meh, close enough. Worforged as Robots: Meh, close enough.
Need_A_Life 09-04-07, 02:38 PM	While it's a valid view that warforged are nothing but robots it's not mine. I see warforged as more than the rest in my group (who keep acting as though they were mechanical and had all sorts of gadgets incorporated in them) as I see beyond their appearance. Think of them as you would slaves. The Last War wasn't their war, yet they were the ones sent out on the slaughterfields to lay down their lives for countries and ideals they hardly knew. The best of them were rewarded with the chaotic, confusing experience of living outside the military and having to make a living as a serving maid or similar. --- In Heirs of Ash, the warforged Omax is frequently referred to as "the weapon" and is to be left outside along with swords and wands. This is despite the fact that he's religious and doesn't hurt people unless he has to. As was mentioned earlier, being made out of armour so hard that it can be used as a very effective weapon in addition to keeping you more protected than your fleshy commanders is quite a boon. Add in Improved Fortification, Extra Slam, Jaws of Death, Adamantine Body and the warforged becomes nothing short of terrifying. --- In addition to being a remnant of the Last War, they're also a dying race. There's no official source stating that warforged are actually being actively created, though it's suggested that both Merrix d'Cannith and the Lord of Blades have interest and/or capability to accomplish this. Every warforged that dies makes the warforged population drop and unlike all other races there's no inflow of people. Hell, the undead legions of Karrnath are - even in peacetime - growing, if only slowly. So, in short. Warforged are trying to settle in a world that sees them as monsters or weapons that should've been melted down when peace finally came. They're a dying race, but whether this'll be by fanatics killing off warforged or simply accidents that leave them dead, one by one until - millenia later - no warforged exist.
olshriek 09-08-07, 04:16 AM	First I'll answer your question but, and if this thread dead and I'm too late sorry, you need to answer one I have. I think its part of what makes Eberron Eberron. The Warforged to me are like the Mournland and other reminder/scars of the last war.The way they would have to deal with people who lost their family in the last war plus the way the world treats them. I mean if you aren't just a soldier but an actual living weapon and the wars over how do you deal with that. And thats another key as to why I like them. Plus why I think that they aren't golems or robots or any other thing, they are alive and not in the I think therefore, I am bad Christy Allie "Number Five is alive" movie crap but actually alive. You can play a warforged druid like someone already pointed out that means nature thinks highly of them.It has a soul an id its a freakin PC class.Granted mine usually have the charisma of plain wheat toast but hey thats the player not the race. Now to my question to you ,and I hope I don't come off rude ,but how do you have an Eberron game without warforged?They are inseperable in my mind is all.
Jewelprotector 09-09-07, 02:46 PM	Now to my question to you ,and I hope I don't come off rude ,but how do you have an Eberron game without warforged?They are inseperable in my mind is all. The thread's not dead, and you're not rude. As for how you have an Eberron game without warforged: keep them in the background. They're not PC's or important NPC's. They're just...window dressing. Except that, as I mentioned in my other thread about changelings, I'd hate to keep such an intrinsic part of the setting in the background like that. I might as well be running Forgotten Realms if I'm going to do that. Which is why I started this thread in the first place. If I wanted to do Forgotten Realms, or Greyhawk, or Dragonlance, I would (and at some point, I have.) But if I'm going to run Ebberon, then I want to be able to take advantage of everything that makes Eberron unique.
Prime32 09-19-07, 04:53 AM	I see warforged like autistic savant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistic_savant)s; their "splinter skills" are anything to do with war and tactics - they are uncomfortable talking about other things, even if they are pacifists.
Ogiwan 09-19-07, 09:57 AM	One thing about 'forged is their ability to explore humanity. Most Warforged have no idea about love or friendship; they understand comradeship and an ally. They understand the concept of an enemy, but do they grasp the emotion of anger, or the reasons and act of vengeance? When i was running my 'forged tank, I had to have one of the PCs explain why people would sacrifice themselves for a cause. Of course, I had to leave that game, 'cause I relocated to Tennessee, but just think of the other things that could have been explored. Patriotism? Religion? Pleasure? Fashion? Art? In short, civilization. Oh, don't forget to TALK LIKE A PIRATE TODAY!
Artector 09-19-07, 12:00 PM	I like warforged for most of the reasons mentioned above, but I also like many of the things based of them, and the potential things based on them. The Renegade Mastermaker is what I am referring to. I played a Cannith Artificer that was fascinated with the warforged, and RPed a scene with the Warforged player (it was PbP, so it was easier) where he inquires on the nature of the warforged. I can't find it now, but it was a fun back and forth.
ZeroSD 09-26-07, 07:34 PM	Warforged are cooler because their bodies produce and retain less heat than other races!
eehamburg 09-27-07, 10:02 AM	Warforged are cooler because their bodies produce and retain less heat than other races! Groan!!
Cifer 09-27-07, 05:59 PM	Halfling Ninjas ofcourse. Dinosaur riding halfling ninjas. they have no internal moving parts. I believe it is mentioned in one of the books (ECS or RoE) that the warforged do not bleed. They have no fluids, no lube, no fuel. In this respect i think they are more akin to medium sized humanoid armor plated treants. They have alchemical fluids inside them - they are not immune against blood-draining attacks. There's no official source stating that warforged are actually being actively created, though it's suggested that both Merrix d'Cannith and the Lord of Blades have interest and/or capability to accomplish this. Every warforged that dies makes the warforged population drop and unlike all other races there's no inflow of people. Merrix definitely creates Warforged (Dragonmarked section about Cannith South) and the LoBster probably does, too - otherwise, there would be no indication that its forge doesn't work properly.
Jewelprotector 09-28-07, 07:36 PM	Dinosaur riding halfling ninjas. Yes, we love those. But that's not what this thread is about. Maybe later...:D Honestly, people, this thread has been great! Thank you all for your thoughtful--and extremely helpful!--replies.
eehamburg 10-01-07, 10:04 AM	Yes, we love those. But that's not what this thread is about. Maybe later...:D Honestly, people, this thread has been great! Thank you all for your thoughtful--and extremely helpful!--replies. you do realize that while you may have started the thread, it doesn't actually belong to you... it belongs to the forum and if others decide to discuss ideas within the thread, then that works as well since it is all about the exchange of ideas
Jewelprotector 10-01-07, 11:20 AM	Well, yeah....but what I meant was that there was also nothing wrong with starting a thread about dinosaur riding halfling ninjas. Something about that topic just tickles me... Maybe it's the feathers...
DestinyNova 10-01-07, 01:05 PM	One thing about 'forged is their ability to explore humanity. Most Warforged have no idea about love or friendship; they understand comradeship and an ally. They understand the concept of an enemy, but do they grasp the emotion of anger, or the reasons and act of vengeance? When i was running my 'forged tank, I had to have one of the PCs explain why people would sacrifice themselves for a cause. Of course, I had to leave that game, 'cause I relocated to Tennessee, but just think of the other things that could have been explored. Patriotism? Religion? Pleasure? Fashion? Art? In short, civilization. I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm going to ditto this. In many ways warforged are a good character to play if you want to examine social constructs. For example, warforged have no discernible sexual characteristics and are incapable of procreation, yet they still somehow have gender... why? Can a warforged change gender? Can it exist without a gender? Can it marry? Will other impose a gender upon it? Have warforged invented genders of their own in response to their own particular biological constraints? Also - Do you want to play a character fighting for civil rights? Many warforged are relegated to servile roles on the basis of race. (Or, for an interesting twist, you could also play a warforged who feels that its kind should exist to serve, &c.)
Closet_Nerd 10-10-07, 08:44 AM	They have alchemical fluids inside them - they are not immune against blood-draining attacks. They automatically stabilize. They're immune to energy drain, ability drain and damage. W/o reading the description of the blood drain attack i can't offer anymore ideas. I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm going to ditto this. In many ways warforged are a good character to play if you want to examine social constructs. For example, warforged have no discernible sexual characteristics and are incapable of procreation, yet they still somehow have gender... why? Can a warforged change gender? Can it exist without a gender? Can it marry? Will other impose a gender upon it? Have warforged invented genders of their own in response to their own particular biological constraints? Also - Do you want to play a character fighting for civil rights? Many warforged are relegated to servile roles on the basis of race. (Or, for an interesting twist, you could also play a warforged who feels that its kind should exist to serve, &c.) The party i was playing in has a warforged that's almost totally devoted to the d'cannith artificer. Both of the characters are played by kids. Both players & characters make me (and my character- Shifter Scout) nuts. It was always interesting getting around the two of them being more devoted to each other and in the case of the artificer- his ideals. -Even if they left the front line fighters to fend for themselves w/o support.
Cifer 10-10-07, 07:29 PM	They automatically stabilize. They're immune to energy drain, ability drain and damage. W/o reading the description of the blood drain attack i can't offer anymore ideas. That is incorrect: They are immune to energy drain, but barring Juggernaut levels or similar stuff, they are susceptible to ability drain and ability damage - which is just what the Stirge inflicts.
Moggie 11-05-07, 12:40 PM	Hey lads, I'm about to embark on playing a warforge fighter in a "sky pirates with a Godfather twist" campaign. I haven't read any of the Warforge fluff so just need a pointer or two (or four). Long story short I'm playing him as Loyalty personified. Family property. Body guard. As part and parcel of the family as their crest. Alas his inability to follow subtle changes in the atmosphere of a sit-down, his inability to understand subtext, his inability to keep up with change means he's sometimes 3 or 4 steps behind the times (and thus a liability). Thing is, for dramatic reasons I need to be "out of the picture" for the last ten years so 1 question relates around shutting a warforge down for a long period of time. 'Forge don't sleep but if one of them becomes problematic due to their inability to keep up with shifting allegiances in an intensely wheeler-dealer political landscape can they be put into storage for a pro-longed period? They 'Hit' someone they shouldn't have and were stored rather than removed. Although they can't sleep, can they be ...shut down, turned off, or will it remain awake for the whole time? (and then have the added mind-screwage that 10 years of isolation will cause) Will we have to rig it so that I am beaten into inactivity? and thus awake only with artificer help with only 1 or 2 HP? Or will this be time to introduce a house rule? Secondly, do Warforge have the ability to taste food? or, to be more exact, poison within food? Do warforge make good food tasters to mafia-type dons if trained? Are there any guidelines on how a warforge memory works? Is it photographic? Word perfect etc? Programmed? Triggered by smells/sounds/associations (as limited as their senses are) or is there some other approach to warforge memory mechanics? (Will it have difficulty matching its memory of a 10 yr old to the 20 yr old that is standing before it?) Lastly will it have any problems with a female taking up the position of family head? It doesn't have a gender but is quiet grateful for and very comfortable with the strictly enforced hierarchy of the mafia-type regime structures we're going to be playing out in this family. It will therefore want people and need things to maintain the status quo. There must be a godfather-figure, ....so are 'forge aware of the difference in the sexes of flesh races (and do they care?) or is everything just another body to them? (or do I get to decide that?)... can I play him as having no problem with a Matriarch or should I be aware that they have issues? That's about it. I'm hoping most of this fits into the 'its up to you' category but I thought I'd ask anyway. Thanks in advance Moggie. (Sorry if this is the wrong thread)
Prime32 11-05-07, 12:55 PM	Although they can't sleep, can they be ...shut down, turned off, or will it remain awake for the whole time? (and then have the added mind-screwage that 10 years of isolation will cause) Will we have to rig it so that I am beaten into inactivity? and thus awake only with artificer help with only 1 or 2 HP? Or will this be time to introduce a house rule? Aside from beating them to 0 hp, warforged can only be put into "standby" the same ways people can - either he stays awake or magic is used. Secondly, do Warforge have the ability to taste food? or, to be more exact, poison within food? Do warforge make good food tasters to mafia-type dons if trained? Warforged cannot taste, though some desiring humanity use custom magic items which grant artificial senses of taste. Are there any guidelines on how a warforge memory works? Is it photographic? Word perfect etc? Programmed? Triggered by smells/sounds/associations (as limited as their senses are) or is there some other approach to warforge memory mechanics? (Will it have difficulty matching its memory of a 10 yr old to the 20 yr old that is standing before it?) Well, they're probably pre-programmed with basic tactical knowledge. Think of what mental abilities would be useful to a soldier and assume the others are pitiful. They would probably be great at recalling instructions, for instance. Lastly will it have any problems with a female taking up the position of family head? It doesn't have a gender but is quiet grateful for and very comfortable with the strictly enforced hierarchy of the mafia-type regime structures we're going to be playing out in this family. It will therefore want people and need things to maintain the status quo. There must be a godfather-figure, ....so are 'forge aware of the difference in the sexes of flesh races (and do they care?) or is everything just another body to them? (or do I get to decide that?)... can I play him as having no problem with a Matriarch or should I be aware that they have issues? That depends on the individuals involved.
RanAngel 11-05-07, 05:08 PM	Just before we started our first Eberron campaign, two of my players went away and started concocting character ideas. The rest of us didn't know what to expect, and when they came back, this is what they had: Lor ir Vaun de Cannith, a changeling, born out of wedlock to Lord Yeron ir Vaun de Cannith and Lady Mair (changeling, his second wife). He became attached to Butler, a Cannith warforged gardener. Butler was his protector and friend as he was growing up. Being carer for the child, along with his gardening, taught the warforged a life other than the violence of the war that he had been created for. When Lor punched a Cannith noble who had insulted his mother, and had to run away, Butler helped him escape. Both are now on the run from all three Cannith houses. And that's where we started the campaign. Butler was a Druid, Lor was a Rogue, and they met up with the party together. Apart from some insanely good character depth (you're just getting a taste of it here), both players gave everything they had in their role playing. This was my introduction to the warforged: to this day it remains for me the greatest example of what a 'forged character can be: exploring human relationships and their own potential for humanity, searching for a place where they can fit into the world, hands down ass-kicking in combat (several instances of Call Lightning and a well placed javelin come to mind). If you'd seen these guys going at it, I don't think you'd be asking why the 'forged were cool. I know I'll never have to ask again.
eehamburg 11-06-07, 11:38 AM	Lor ir Vaun de Cannith, a changeling There is just one problem here. D'Cannith means that you have a dragonmark. Otherwise, it would just be Cannith without the D'. Changelings can not have dragonmarks. Therefore, there is something wrong with this character as it does not conform to the rules listed in the ECS.
Alex_ 11-06-07, 01:29 PM	There is just one problem here. D'Cannith means that you have a dragonmark. Otherwise, it would just be Cannith without the D'. Changelings can not have dragonmarks. Therefore, there is something wrong with this character as it does not conform to the rules listed in the ECS. You don't hve to have a Dragonmark. You merely have to be tied to one of the families by blood. House Cannith is actually composed of 2 families: Vown and Tellic. When on house business, you just use "d'Cannith" as a title, letting people know that you're tied to the house, even if you don't have a mark (summarized from Player's Guide to Eberron). Since Changelings are largely integrated into the society of other races, and when breeding with Humans, they have a percentage of producing a Changeling child with Vown or Tellic blood. It could be the result of a fling, a trick (you said you were Human!), or whatever. Or the whole thing could just be a ruse, with the Changeling pretending to be a member of House Cannith.
Prime32 11-06-07, 01:57 PM	Just remember that you take a -10 penalty on disguise checks to mimic a dragonmark :eek:
eehamburg 11-06-07, 04:03 PM	You don't hve to have a Dragonmark. You merely have to be tied to one of the families by blood. House Cannith is actually composed of 2 families: Vown and Tellic. When on house business, you just use "d'Cannith" as a title, letting people know that you're tied to the house, even if you don't have a mark (summarized from Player's Guide to Eberron). It clearly states within the ECS that those with the D' are dragonmarked. Where does your statement come from?
Alex_ 11-07-07, 01:54 AM	It clearly states within the ECS that those with the D' are dragonmarked. Where does your statement come from? I summarized the "Family Names: To D' or not to D'?" section on page 85 of the Player's Guide to Eberron. I don't ever recall seeing mention of naming conventions in the ECS, which I assumed was why they decided to expand upon it.
Lord_Tirian 11-08-07, 05:35 PM	I summarized the "Family Names: To D' or not to D'?" section on page 85 of the Player's Guide to Eberron. I don't ever recall seeing mention of naming conventions in the ECS, which I assumed was why they decided to expand upon it. ECS, pg. 138, it states " ir' " states the noble lineage, " d' " states blood connection to a dragonmarked house. Cheers, LT.
Ogiwan 11-10-07, 03:29 PM	Getting the topic back on track (why Warforged rule): I was reading the first two books in the Heirs of Ash trilogy in preparation of reading the third (see my thread on that to know how that went.), and I found a quote from Omex, the (fething awesome) Warforged "holy man" (Monk/Fighter, as far as I can tell): "'And here is what comes naturally to me," Omax said. He opened a broad, three-fingered hand and held it before Gerith's face. "These hands can crush bone and tear metal, Gerith. I do not rest, do not tire, and can struggle on when my enemies have long succumbed to exhaustion. I have been given the tools to function as an efficient war machine, a living weapon to kill mortals. I was trained and encouraged to surrender to my violent urges. It is not what I aspire to be, but it is what comes naturally to me. It would be easy for me to become a monster, Gerith. Very easy. Does that make me 'evil'? Or does it grant my struggle to do what is 'right' greater value?'"
Moggie 11-13-07, 06:16 AM	You don't hve to have a Dragonmark. You merely have to be tied to one of the families by blood. House Cannith is actually composed of 2 families: Vown and Tellic. When on house business, you just use "d'Cannith" as a title, letting people know that you're tied to the house, even if you don't have a mark (summarized from Player's Guide to Eberron). :D ooooh, a "friend of mine" becomes a "friend of ours" when working for the family ...sweet :D
RanAngel 11-13-07, 06:48 AM	If we can move on from the "de" question now... Jewelprotector, you've had quite a set of replies. I'd like to know how you're opinion of the 'Forged has changed (if at all) from what you've read here. Are you still in need of convincing of their place in the world, or do you have any specific issues about them which haven't been addressed here already?
Scottbert 11-13-07, 11:15 AM	(The philosophical and psychological aspects of the warforged) I agree -- That is the coolest thing about them. I dig philosophical stuff though it doesn't come up in D&D often, and I have a soft spot for 'alien trying to make sense of this world' characters, largely because I can sympathize due to having Asperger's. That said, though warforged are not robots, this game is about having fun. If someone wants to play warforged as robots and they're having fun doing it, more power to them.
Jewelprotector 11-20-07, 12:22 PM	If we can move on from the "de" question now... Jewelprotector, you've had quite a set of replies. I'd like to know how you're opinion of the 'Forged has changed (if at all) from what you've read here. Are you still in need of convincing of their place in the world, or do you have any specific issues about them which haven't been addressed here already? Actually, I've got a much better grasp on them now, and a much better idea of how to use them in game. I doubt I will ever play one, but then, I don't play dwarves either. It's become a matter of preference rather than one of ignorance, and I thank all of you for your thoughtful and respectful replies.
Tiandao 11-23-07, 10:00 PM	As stated earlier wf are cool for many reasons. The highlight I would point out would be plot wise there are so many things that you can do with them as living weapons of mass destruction. There are so many opportunities here for character development. Think of Blade runner as an example. You know you were made for war, but the war is over. Many people hate you. How do you fit in socially? How do you cope with life? How do you cope with your race being for the most part endangered as they have just about stopped production of you? I really liked the 1800s Samurai anology on the first page. There are tons of character twists that you could use for them. And lastly what could be more powerful than a wf artificer? What couldn't you do with them? You can enchant yourself! They can buff the party! Reign down magical doom with wands and other magical devices. Personally if anything I would say they can be overpowering and as a race deserve a cr/ecl (been a while so kinda fuzzy). They get a TON of racial bonuses for nothing! This should appeal to the tweak in everyone! If not then there is the first paragragh. Character development. You are part of a new race. Your future is boundless. The oldest one out there should only be around mid thirties?
RanAngel 11-25-07, 01:55 AM	Personally if anything I would say they can be overpowering and as a race deserve a cr/ecl (been a while so kinda fuzzy). They get a TON of racial bonuses for nothing! This should appeal to the tweak in everyone! They're not overpowered, as far as I can see. Since they're living constructs, they still have Constitution scores. They're vulnerable to spells that target constructs. They cannot wear armor or magical robes, they have balanced ability ajustments (+2 Con, -2 Wis/Cha). If they do have myriad cool little abilities (not having to sleep, breathe or eat, various immunities, etc.) this can only encourage players new to Eberron to take up what is a pretty cool race, and essentially the embodiment of the campaign setting.