Post/Author/DateTime	Post
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-24-07, 06:15 PM	Be for warned that this will not adhere to everyones feelings. These are my ideas, and what I came up with along time ago. Its seems the old post I had got deleted, this one however I will continue to work on as I catch back up. Just so happens I emailed the file to myself along time ago and had spent much time on it as well. So here goes nothing, also note I'd like some feed back, and maybe add a few ideas in there. The "cultural" name convention is just some flavor text. These will change probably weekly as I go through and read other peoples idea. PS: I have one thing I will not change, the "oriental" classes for the Dhakaani. Sorry guys, but I love the roman/asain combination. Just feels empirial.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-24-07, 06:16 PM	Hexblade The Hexblade was almost always a rarity among the people of Eberron. Every race and kingdom has the same chance of producing these jinxed folk. Within the last 2 years though there have been an increase in Hexblade members, many of them are the unfortunate refugees off Cyre, having developed their abilities directly after the Day of Mourning. Also in history many Hexblades have been connected to religions, odd seeing as many of them are not devout followers and seem to be cursed by the gods rather then blessed. There are tales of people who where "blessed" by The Traveler and gained such powers, but further leads into these myths it seems like the said individual felt more burdened by their power then blessed. The Blood of Vol too seems to have connections with this people, as well as the Dragon Below cults. Samurai These honor bound warriors, originated in the ancient lands of the Dhakaani. They where first seen as honor gaurds and officers of the Ghaal’dar, but originated during the Dhakaani Empire. Independently of the Dhakaani the Valenar had also developed their own Samurai class as well, but when they where thrust from Khorvaire the tradition was lost, until recently. The dwarves to have had an ancient tradition of warriors as well, and have developed there own style as well. Humans in Karnnathi were the first of the Five Nations to create their own style mimicking the skills of the Ghaal’dar, with Thrane following suit with their Silver Swords. Cultural Name: Taloguur (Darguun & Dhakaani), Silver Swords (Thrane), Blackblades (Karnnath), the Wherand (Mror Holds), Eilae-Shasos (Valenar) Changes: The Samurai of Eberron are varied. The Silver Swords, Blackblades, Wherand, and Ghaal’dar Taloguur use the Samurai class from Complete Warrior. The Elves and Dhakaani use the Samurai class from presented in Oriental Adventures. Silver Swords: The Silver Swords where created by a rogue Taloguur who converted to the Silver Flame during the Last War. He developed a new style of combat wielding a shield and longsword. Today the Silver Swords are considered a small organization within the church, and really have no power within its confines. Currently a group of Dhakaani Taloguur, called the Orlaan’dager, have sworn vengeance against the Silver Swords. Benefits: Gains Shield Proficiency (not including Tower Shield). (1st lv) Wpn Focus (Long Sword), (2nd lv) Improved Shield Bash, (5th lv) Faithful Barrier (Gains a +1 Bonus if using a shield), (11th lv) Improved Faithful Barrier (+2 bonus if using a shield), (16th lv) nothing Blackblades: These honored warriors where very rare until the Last War, when many talented soldiers flooded to their ranks. Only the most skilled and dedicated warriors where allowed into the school. The school gets its name for the Adamantine blades that they bestow among there officers, the true name is ______(?). Today the number of Blackblades almost numbers that of the Taloguur, which it was copied from. Benefits: Same as Complete Warrior Samurai Taloguur: These are the most common Samurai found in Khorvaire. They where founded by the Dhakaani and reestablished by the Ghaal'dar, who learned the skills in the ruins of an Ancient Dhakaani fortress. Benefits: Ghaal’dar use Complete Warrior Samurai, Dhakaani use Oriental Adventures Samurai. Wherand: The elite martial warrior of the dwarves was developed long ago by a dwarf slave whose Dhakaani master taught him the art. The dwarf was later set free by this master, and when he returned to the mountains of his homeland (now known as the Mror Holds) the taught others. Over the generations the dwarves have developed the art into a unique from of fighting using a Dwarven Waraxe and Warhammer, rather then the Daisho. Benefits: All benefits for the Daisho (Two Swords as One, Improved Two Swords as One, and Greater Two Swords as One) instead are used with the Dwarven Waraxe & Warhammer (This combination is known as a Helnotar, “God’s Weapons”). Other Options: Members of house Denieth have the Throne Wardens, as well as a group of high bodygaurds in New Thronehold, have some leyway as to possibly becoming samurai. Throne Wardens I think would fall in the same style as the Silver Swords, while the Qbarran Samurai would fall into a more Karnnathi style. Swashbuckler The Swashbuckler has always held high regards among nobles, the Dragon Marked Houses, Aundair, and the Lhazaar Principalities. The Khorvaire elves and half-elves seem to be quite fond of the skills as well. Outside of these groups, the Swashbuckler is somewhat rare, though during the Last War some sailors skilled became renowned Swashbucklers. Of all the Five Nations though, Aundair, is truly the capital of the Swashbuckler, their bravado and quik glib of the tongue, has endured for many years in their kingdom. Stories of Rinnalo the Swift and his daring crusade to free a town in Thaolist from the tyrannical Thrannish leadership and return its goods back to its rightful heirs. Or Zaro, an Aundairian noble who moved to Zilargo to manage family buisiness. During the day he is a mild-mannered everyday noble, but when the time comes he puts on his red mask and armor to fight back the villians who plunder his lands during the Last War.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-24-07, 06:17 PM	Favored Soul Among the ranks of divine spellcasters there is a rare group of clergymen & women known as Favored Souls. It seems that any race or church is likely to produce such a being, although rare and considered nothing more then a cleric. Some Favored Souls are actually untrained evangelist, who seem to manifest these abilities over night. The Favored Soul seems to be most common in followers of Sybris and the Church of the Silver Flame. Shugenja The oldest tradition of Shugenja date back long ago in the Age of Monsters, when the orcs and the Dhakaani where at war, a Dhakaani clan disenchanted with there lives left the empire and fled west. This clan was cast out for religous beliefs and for not fighting in the war. They where aloud to flee only due to the fact that the Lhesh and Haakugach (minor lord) where blood related. When they fled west some had actually met with the Gatekeepers and over the course of several generations the Shugenja developed, even building monastaries back in the east. With the fall of the Dhakaani and Orc empires so fell many of the Shugenja monastaries. When humans migrated to Khorvaire they to brought with them their own elemental cults, and many of them actually took to the decayed religion. Through them the hidden ruins where revived, and the dying elemental cults where given a new life. Not to long after though the Church of the Sovereign Host waged a war against the cults, destroying the newfound temples. Today the Shugenja hide in the open though, and many people believe them to be nothing more then then wizards and sorcerers. Only two ruined temples still stand today, and both lie far to the west. Also in Xen'drik the Drow have created a relation with elemental worship as well, but this is only a recent development among their people (within the last 300 years or so). Cultural Name: Utugo (Orcs), Shraaguunja (Dhakaani), Avla'eshaelalor (Drow). Spirit Shaman This strange cleric has developed within many primitive societies and even one modern society. Among the orcs, drow, halflings, Seren, and Valenar elves this class has developed. Most prominent are among the Drow and Seren, while the orcs and halfling developed a much similar belief with this class. The Valenar elves have also developed a religion of hero worship very similar to those of the Orcs and Drow. The Seren tribes like the Valenar developed their own belief though, that they are guided by a dragon spirits, and each spirit represents one of the nine types of dragon. Cultural Name: Mosatal (Valenar), Balashk (orc), Keshear (drow), Roylonfur (halflings), Renthasj (Seren)
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-24-07, 06:18 PM	Warlock Throughout the history of Eberron almost every culture has tales of those who have consorted with beings from another realm of influence. Included in these tales are stories of mystical pacts being made for power. Today many warlocks come from Droaam, the Seren Tribes, and the Demon Wastes. It is even said a powerful Warlock was cast out of Riedra almost a decade ago and now lives somewhere in Khorvaire. Religions have also created "blessed" beings given gifts by their "gods", their powers very similar to those of the Warlock. Close ties to the Dragon Below cults have led to many warlocks (which is not suprising seeing that many of the warlocks come from Droaam). The Seren barbarians treat their warlocks as holy beings, at the very least on par with high servants of the dragons and at best as true avatars. To kill a Seren Warlock is to earn the animosity of the entire tribe, and maybe even their draconic masters. Cultural Name: Shasys (Elven & Drow), Dagu (Goblinoid), Rach'tor (Orc), Thrakavar (Dwarf), Kutab'babu (Seren) Warmage Among the kingdoms of Khorvaire there are a hanful of kingdoms that have developed there own Warmage. The largest traditions are founded among the Aundair, Valenar, and Mror Holds, while a lesser schools are within Breland, Darguun, and Karnnath. The origins of this class can be traced back to Xen'drik when the elves fought for freedom against the giants. During the fall of the Dhakaani, when humans came to Khorvaire, they to developed their own independant form of War Mage. During the Last War Karnnath and Breland developed minor studies in the art that have survived to today, at Rekkenmark and Morgrave. Cultural Name: Shas Tandri (Elven), Dar-ghalaan (Dhakaani), Valrak (Dwarf), Battle Magus (Aundair) Wu-Jen The Wu-Jen where a rare bred among the ancient Dhakaani, and to a lesser degree the Orcs. Few of these ancient spellcasters gained any respect within the Dhakaani, but those that did where feared. Even today they are still a rare group, many belong to a "degenerate" clan, the Taldar'khesh, that sells its services only to other Dhakaani. To the Dhakaani the skill is viewed as repulsive, and a crutch for the weak. But those talented in the art are feared and shown respect when they are within sight. Orcs to carried on the tradition, but to a much lesser extent. The orcs who still hold faith in the Gatekeepers, and show skill in the arcane are usually intrusted with the ancient knowledge of the Wu-Jhaan. This is one of the strongest links to the ancient war fought by the Orcs and Dhakaani against the Dealkyr. Today several disenchanted Wu-Jen have actually left the confines of their fortresses and have actually trained outsiders in the art. Also some of the Wu-Jhaan from the wild orc countries have even taught others who have been fit to join their clans these arts. Few though are the outsiders interested in the skills of the Wu-Jhaan. Cultural Name: Wu-Jhaan (Goblinoid & Orc)
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-24-07, 06:18 PM	Ninja Both the Elves, Drow, and Dhakaani have developed the art of the Ninja. Among the elves the art was developed during there war against the giants and dragons, while the Dhakaani developed the art very early in their empire. Today ninja can be found among Aerenal, Darguun, Valenar, and Xen'drik. The Drow that practice the art have done so for generations, and usually are the gaurdians of sacred locations. In Darguun the ninja are seen as assassins that hide in shadows. Those of the Valenar are used as enforcers, whose tradition dates back to the days of giantslaying. Other recent organizations to have led to "ninjas" being created. The truth of the matter is that these skills are based on modern assassins and spies. They are not the same as the Shadow Warriors of the Dhakaani or Elves. The practice of these new "ninjas" is just coincidence, however that is not to say they cannot do the same tricks as the older true traditions. Cultural Name: Tarthaal (Dhakaani), Maelaes-Ail (Elven) Scout The scout has been an integral part to almost every culture and race in Eberron and as such does not need a background given. Spell-thief The Spell-thief was developed originally by the halflings and gnomes of Khorvaire. These two groups developed the ability as a competion among the two races. Today the class is still mostly prevelant in Zilargo and the Talenta Plains. Spell-thieves are always trained master to pupil. Many members of a sub-section of the Trust have actually specialized in the art of being a spell-thief. Cultural Name: Caldair (Halfling), Tzerlanwo (Gnome)
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-24-07, 06:19 PM	When it comes to the Psionic traditions, Riedra is the open-all place to look. The ancient homeland of the humans has a much more vast legacy of psionic traditions then those of Khorvaire or any other land. The beings that dwell their openly know the difference between psionics and magic, and view magic with much more distain. The people of Khorvaire however, know little difference between magic and psionics, as the abilities closely function together, to the common person their doesn't seem to be much more difference. However there are some things that do stand out, and these are the difference. Psion Although most psions are Kalashtar, throughout history many of the other races have as well. Among the other races, goblinoids, elves, and humans seem to be that produce the most Psions. In the goblinoid culture the Psions are usually killed when their powers first manifest, while the elves silently chastise(?) those that inherit the ability. The humans has always viewed it as nothing more then just another form of magic gained through a different principal. The humans of Sarlona seem to be the most skilled at the art, other then the Kalashtar. Among the elves and shifters psychometabalism seems to be the choice, while goblins and Riedran tend to become telepaths. Even a handful of Warforged Psions are said exist, but this has yet to be proven. Cultural Name: Tol Shojas (Elven), Khathasht (Kalashtar), Dekaarl (Goblin) Psychic Warrior The martial tradition of psionics, commonly known to as Psychic Warriors, really has only developed from the Kalashtar culture. Many of the races that produce psions have also produced psychic warriors. Other than Kalashtar, Psychic Warriors are found among humans, shifters, and orcs. The Orc Psychic Warriors are viewed with suspicion, while those in human and shifter communities are viewed as special warriors. The Riedrans view their Psychic Warriors as holy crusaders and paladin like. The Psychic Warrior also seems to be a choice for those few psionic warforged that have developed over the years. Cultural Name: Lonager (Orc), Aradura (Riedran), Karalath (Kalashtar) Soulknife These warriors are more common among the Kalashtar then Psychic warriors, but rarer among the other races. Only the Kalashtar have any true tradition with Soulknives, but like other Psionic classes the power can manifest within the other races as well. This also seems to be the most prominent psionic class among the halflings as well. Cultural Name: Sherathana (Kalashtar), Kunirvar (Halfling) Wilder Rare among the Kalashtar, but much more prominent among the other races the Wilders are untrained psions. The wilder is much like the psion, but they manifest their powers through sheer force of will. This class seems to spring up within the dwarves quite often, as well as the shifters, Seren tribes, and the Drow. The Dwarves believe that psionics are curse from the blood of an ancient clan that lived in the western mountains during the Age of Monsters. Shifters and Drow both have similar feelings that it is a blessing, created through powerful emotions. Cultural Name: Varasher (Kalashtar), Barvartor (Dwarf), Xolaes (Drow)
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-24-07, 06:20 PM	I will go through the book and take a look at the stuff and post it here, as it came after this file was wrote.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-25-07, 01:20 AM	blarg.
skrap-san 11-25-07, 02:16 AM	Impressive, I don't agree with all, but still impressive. If you need some inspiration later on I recomend this page (http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/conversions.html).
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-25-07, 03:26 PM	Well let me hear some ideas man I'm only one person ya know what I'm sayin. I could deffinately use some help if you guys got any ideas.
skrap-san 11-25-07, 04:41 PM	Hexblade I think they could also come from Karnnath. Blood of Vol could train potential hexblades. Samurai I like the Idea of the different types of samurai "clans" now i would like to sugest a line of samurai in Newthrone (Q'barra) Swashbuckler: Aundair has a high percentage of swashbucklers since their culture love flashy moves. Favored Soul some are chosen by the silver flame directly, and strange connections with the other gods. Shugenja Belongs to a cult that strives to keep balance in the world (think jedi). One master and one apprentice. Warlock Usualy tied to the dragon below cults. Warmage Aundair develop quite a few warmages, so did Karnnath near the end of the war, together with a great deal of necromancers. (stolen from the page i linked to earlier). Wu-Jen the wizard alternative in less civilized areas eldeen reaches shadow marches etc. Ninja Vaelenar elfs, the trust, mark of shadows, shadow organizations with a focus on grace. Scout agreed they don't really need an explanation. I know its only short phrases, but its a start. And I hope it can inspire you to expand your posts.
Rechan 11-25-07, 06:20 PM	Samurai I like the Idea of the different types of samurai "clans" Be aware that Oriental Adventures have clans, and it's just a matter of putting them in Eberron.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-25-07, 10:33 PM	I'm not goin' with clans so much as fighting styles, atleast for the goblinoids. I like the idea of Q'barra having samurai groups based on the "old knights of Galifar" type thing. However I don't thing the population of Q'barra justifies X number of different styles. With the goblinoids I'm pretty much going with they belong to a group, completely loyal to the Dhakaani as a whole, but their styles are varied from the different ancient clans/families that once existed. However they have all sworn loyalty to the Dhakaani Empire as a whole, and forsaken their clan/family names (in my game all of them have scars X'd accross their face, usually with an acid or by blade).
TheKeyofE 11-26-07, 09:40 AM	The Inspired should have soulknives as well as the kalashtar. Reference this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050110a) article. (Sorry, soulknives are my favorite, so that class stuck out more than the others you listed)
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-26-07, 10:29 AM	Well that's a givin'. I actually wrote this before Secrets of Sarlona, which means I do need to do an update. also I'm tryin' to make this for player's to give them a hand are creating PCs. We all know that the Inspired are NPCs, as such they are at the will of the dm's design.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-27-07, 02:55 PM	updated some of the old info a little.
DragoonDarkfire 11-28-07, 04:33 PM	I don't agree about Warlocks for Seren. Dragonfire Adepts sound more likely to be worshipped by the Serens. I mean these are the guys who practically call on their gods own breath powers!
ArcTan 11-29-07, 05:36 PM	I don't mean to be a jerk (or, at least, not that big of one), but I'm looking at this and failing to see how it's better than what we already have in Player's Guide to Eberron plus the Dragonshards and Eberron Expanded articles.
Rechan 11-30-07, 03:16 AM	ailing to see how it's better than what we already have in Player's Guide to Eberron Well, for one, some of us may think that whoever designed the sidebars in the Players Guide to Eberron was just an intern throwing darts at a wall.
Kreistor2 11-30-07, 11:46 AM	Well, for one, some of us may think that whoever designed the sidebars in the Players Guide to Eberron was just an intern throwing darts at a wall. Hah... I completely agree. I do not allow my players that book. How can some street urchin from Breland have any clue that there is a half-dragon lich with a dragonmark of death running the Blood of Vol?
AvonRekaes 11-30-07, 12:04 PM	I once wrote up the OA Samurai in a doc file to update it to 3.5. I made some other changes besides the one in the Dragon article, and I changed the Rokugan clans into fighting styles. I named them as follows: Crab - School of the Iron Mountain Crane - Way of the Butterfly Edge Dragon - Art of the Crushing Wave Lion - School of the Steady Blade Phoenix - Way of the Inner Light Scorpion - Art of the Silent Fang Unicorn - Path of the Striking Cloud I also updated some of the bonus feat lists to better hone some of the flavors of a clan's supposed fighting style. I wasn't trying to be Eberron specific with it though, but it could possibly be a jumping off-point.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-30-07, 07:33 PM	I don't mean to be a jerk (or, at least, not that big of one), but I'm looking at this and failing to see how it's better than what we already have in Player's Guide to Eberron plus the Dragonshards and Eberron Expanded articles. Its kewl man, if you don't like the thread, or see it as useful, don't use it. Like I said in the opening statement of the thread. However, many different people play different styles, what one person sees, another my not even think is sane. However rather then questioning the usefulness of the post, be creative, do what D&D players are supposed to do, make the world yours; and set it apart from the normal slag that drips down onto the table. These are ways people can incorporate different things into their game, rather then just use mind numbing dribble that EVERYONE uses. This stuff can set your game apart from any other. As a gamer, the one thing I hate more then anything, is the DM that uses everything in a book as cannon, and the way it is written is the only way it will go down. It makes the game borish and controlled. I understand that somethings just won't fit into a game. However, as a DM I don't look for ways to say, no, I look for ways to say, yes. A player says can I play a psionic in this campaign. Sure, but these are the pro's and con's. Lets see what we can do to still keep it interesting for you.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-30-07, 07:41 PM	I don't agree about Warlocks for Seren. Dragonfire Adepts sound more likely to be worshipped by the Serens. I mean these are the guys who practically call on their gods own breath powers! Ok well lets hear it. What is it that you don't agree with for it? I mean it is but one of many ways to add the class into the game. Simply saying I don't agree and having one reason not to isn't going to change my mind man. So what if the Dragonfire Adepts can do that, I bet if I twink a few things about the Warlock to better fit with the "style" it would put the fear into a group of PCs (and with out changing their balance of them either). Just tweak the class a little bit, trust me it will work for you. For instance, change the description of the abilities, not so much mechanically as visually. The players don't see a freakin' ball of hellfire launched at them ready to errupt and vaporize everyone. They see a bolt of lightening shoot out hitting the ground and spreading out, fryin' them up like a fly in a zapper. Even though the same feats and damage are done, to the players it will look as if you have somethin' new and kewl. This will keep them guessin' to btw.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 11-30-07, 07:43 PM	I once wrote up the OA Samurai in a doc file to update it to 3.5. I made some other changes besides the one in the Dragon article, and I changed the Rokugan clans into fighting styles. I named them as follows: Crab - School of the Iron Mountain Crane - Way of the Butterfly Edge Dragon - Art of the Crushing Wave Lion - School of the Steady Blade Phoenix - Way of the Inner Light Scorpion - Art of the Silent Fang Unicorn - Path of the Striking Cloud I also updated some of the bonus feat lists to better hone some of the flavors of a clan's supposed fighting style. I wasn't trying to be Eberron specific with it though, but it could possibly be a jumping off-point. Maybe me and you should shoot some emails back and forth man and post somethin' for the Dhakaani warriors. I'm thinkin' of goin' with the "racial" weapons from the Races of Eberron book, however I do want to expand a little. Maybe as a team, we can get that up here on the boards and link it to this thread as well.
AvonRekaes 11-30-07, 08:12 PM	Personally I'm not a big fan of the CW Samurai, so I'd be more likely to attribute different schools to different cultures. Steady Blade, Crushing Wave, and Silent Fang would be good for the Dhakaani. (Steady Blade being very hogoblinish, Crushing Wave which focuses on grappling somewhat bugbearish, and Silent Fang very very goblinish, what with the clan of goblin ninjas.) Iron Mountain would be pretty good for Dwarves, and Striking Cloud and Butterfly Edge good for the Valenar. I'd make the Karrnathi and any "modern" styles of samurai the CW one, seeing as how it's a poor substitute in my opinion, and these cultures haven't been able to adapt a true samurai tradition yet. Or I wouldn't use the CW samurai at all.
DragoonDarkfire 12-01-07, 12:53 AM	Ok well lets hear it. What is it that you don't agree with for it? I mean it is but one of many ways to add the class into the game. Simply saying I don't agree and having one reason not to isn't going to change my mind man. So what if the Dragonfire Adepts can do that, I bet if I twink a few things about the Warlock to better fit with the "style" it would put the fear into a group of PCs (and with out changing their balance of them either). You are aware the Dragonfire Adept is basically the Warlock with Breath Weapon instead of Elderitch Blast right? I basically thought it SHOULD be a variant Warlock but what are ya gonna do? Oh and the reason I don't agree is this. Warlocks generally channel the power of evil and chaos. Dragons typically stand to oppose evil and chaos ergo I don't think they'd approve of Warlocks on their continent. Just tweak the class a little bit, trust me it will work for you. For instance, change the description of the abilities, not so much mechanically as visually. The players don't see a freakin' ball of hellfire launched at them ready to errupt and vaporize everyone. They see a bolt of lightening shoot out hitting the ground and spreading out, fryin' them up like a fly in a zapper. Even though the same feats and damage are done, to the players it will look as if you have somethin' new and kewl. This will keep them guessin' to btw. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously when you replace "cool" a perfectly good adjective with "kewl" a rather idiotic substitution for said adjective. And as I said Dragonfire Adept basically is a variant Warlock.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 12-01-07, 02:31 PM	You are aware the Dragonfire Adept is basically the Warlock with Breath Weapon instead of Elderitch Blast right? I basically thought it SHOULD be a variant Warlock but what are ya gonna do? Oh and the reason I don't agree is this. Warlocks generally channel the power of evil and chaos. Dragons typically stand to oppose evil and chaos ergo I don't think they'd approve of Warlocks on their continent. Are you sure??? Because last time I checked the dragons all have their own agendas. Each one is trying to fulfill a part of the draconic prophecy (which leaves me to assume they are some kind of fanatics). Last time I check fanaticsm(?), was not a truly ordered and good thing. More often then not it leads to great evils being done, and brings about nothing but more chaos and discontent. That's not to say all dragons are that way. Plus if you read like Explorers Handbook the "dragonspeaker" or whatever they where called pretty much was EVIL. Not to mention not all dragons are good, or lawful. But also as you pointed out warlocks GENERALLY channel the power of evil and chaos. That means its not set in stone, thank you very much....next. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously when you replace "cool" a perfectly good adjective with "kewl" a rather idiotic substitution for said adjective. And as I said Dragonfire Adept basically is a variant Warlock. Once again man I'm not cut from the same mold as you. I try to be unique and set myself apart from everyone else. So if you want to critique my spell go ahead, but in the end it will just have me think less of you and your creative abilities (no offense). Look past the trees and see the forest my friend. Come to the darkside, and use "Kewl" instead of cool.
DragoonDarkfire 12-01-07, 05:18 PM	Are you sure??? Because last time I checked the dragons all have their own agendas. Yes some dragon's probably wouldn't disapprove or care. But come on. Do you honestly think the Light of Siberys would just ignore a super powerful (Assuming one gets this strong) Warlock right in their territory? This is an army dedicated to defeating Khyber and it's spawn don't you think that they and the Eyes of Chronopis might be a bit concerned if they started jumping out en-mass? Each one is trying to fulfill a part of the draconic prophecy (which leaves me to assume they are some kind of fanatics). Last time I check fanaticsm(?), was not a truly ordered and good thing. Where the heck does it say that? The CHAMBER works with the prophecy and opposes the manipulative powers of the Lords of Dust constantly but all the other dragons only study the prophecy. They don't get involved with humans or their lands at all. More often then not it leads to great evils being done, and brings about nothing but more chaos and discontent. Yes but generally dragons do this FOR THE GREATER GOOD. Sure they might destroy a few kingdoms in the process but as long as the Raja's don't escape they've prevented a possibly greater catastrophe. That's not to say all dragons are that way. Plus if you read like Explorers Handbook the "dragonspeaker" or whatever they where called pretty much was EVIL. Not to mention not all dragons are good, or lawful. Sure not all are good or lawful but the fact is that the most powerful and influential groups in Argonesses stand to oppose Khyber. Some are evil and malicious but generally those that actually channel the power of the dragon below are seen as enemies. But also as you pointed out warlocks GENERALLY channel the power of evil and chaos. That means its not set in stone, thank you very much....next. Unless you rule out their alignment restrictions sure but honestly how hard is it to substitute Dragonfire Adepts for Seren when the flavor just plain fits better. No alterations to either class need to be made for them, they breath fire like their gods and thusly should be treated with great reverence. Keep in mind this is just my setting but the way I wrote it is that Dragonfire Adepts and Warlocks are basically on opposite ends here as Warlocks are those who are chosen by Khyber and Dragonfire Adepts see themselves as ones chosen by Eberron and Siberys, putting the two at odds constantly. So let me try to put things into perspective for you: What kind of person would dragon worshipers revere more? A person who channels inheritly dark powers and the ability to destroy areas with powerful blasts of energy. Who develops a resistance to all attacks but has a weakness to Cold Iron, a metal often used to fight demons and evil outsiders with and who has all sorts of dangerous and deadly invocations he can command. Or a person who's breath weapon resembles their gods, who develops scales like their gods and who possesses similar invocations but seems to be more tied to their gods abilities. I think it's obvious that the latter would be more respected than the former. Once again man I'm not cut from the same mold as you. That's good and all but if you want to be taken seriously then typically you need to keep your words clean, decisive and without slang. You don't say "What's up GEEE!" to the queen of England and all that. I try to be unique and set myself apart from everyone else. So if you want to critique my spell go ahead, but in the end it will just have me think less of you and your creative abilities (no offense). Look past the trees and see the forest my friend. Come to the darkside, and use "Kewl" instead of cool. Yea that's some nice metaphorical crap but it still doesn't excuse the fact that "kewl" makes you look like a newbie, n00b, newfag, what have you.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 12-01-07, 05:31 PM	Man I'm not here to argue with you, and as much as I would like to, I'll just stop here. Look if you don't like the idea, as I said, don't use it. But the last thing this thread is about, IS SPELLING. Its about ways to tie-in the classes, to the setting. If all you have are negative suggestions, then just don't post them, its just childish and unproductive. If you got some suggestions that are useful and creative...go right ahead and post it. Those will help the thread expand. Who cares, really about Dragonfire Adepts....I don't. I want to hear unique and CREATIVE ways to tie-in OPTIONAL classes. Personally I never liked the alignment restrictions of warlock class, but seein' as alignment isn't as restrictive in Eberron....well you get the idea. So once again, I like it, I've seen several people actually suggest it in the original thread.
DragoonDarkfire 12-01-07, 06:03 PM	Man I'm not here to argue with you, and as much as I would like to, I'll just stop here. I'm not expecting you to argue with me. If you can disprove my point or anti-up a better argument that's fine but if you feel that this isn't the time/place to argue then that's OK. I was just suggesting that the Dragonfire Adept would be a better alternative than a Warlock and you seemed to disprove it with rather vague arguments. If you feel as though I'm wrong then I have no problem with you trying to disprove it but if you can't find any good reason then maybe it's just best to admit that I might be onto something and see what's best for your campaign. I'm not suggesting your wrong, just that one option is better than another and all that. Look if you don't like the idea, as I said, don't use it. The why are you posting this stuff up? When you make suggestions public you need to expect criticism or the voice of others to come up soon after. But the last thing this thread is about, IS SPELLING. I just said it was hard for me to take you seriously like that. We can easily drop that issue here if you like. Its about ways to tie-in the classes, to the setting. If all you have are negative suggestions, then just don't post them, its just childish and unproductive. Negative comments? Those abound anywhere you look. You ever heard of criticism? Well those are negative comments and they come in two forms. One is constructive and the other is blatant. Blatant criticism is childish and unproductive because all it is essentially is "LOL YOU SUCK" and amounts to nothing. Constructive criticism is taking a part that you don't like and suggesting how to improve it. That's what I did by suggesting that Dragonfire Adepts work for Seren better than Warlocks. Typically when someone is suggesting something to you it means you have a right idea going you just need some tweaking. If you got some suggestions that are useful and creative...go right ahead and post it. Those will help the thread expand. Firstly define what you mean by creative and useful? Are you telling me that my suggestion that Dragonfire Adepts work better for Seren than Warlocks was neither of these then how? Maybe I was being a bit rash or over simplistic but I don't think I added any negative comments at all. Who cares, really about Dragonfire Adepts....I don't. Well that's just avoiding the argument entirely. Now who's being childish and unproductive? I want to hear unique and CREATIVE ways to tie-in OPTIONAL classes. And Dragonfire Adepts are Optional classes that just plain work for Seren. But if you want some creativity for them. - They can be members of the Sovereign Host who worship the Host as draconic aspects and thusly call upon their power. - They could be members of Gatekeepers who believe that theirs is the power of Varrakk and that they are chosen among the black dragon. - They could be a secret sect in Adar who work for the Storm Guardians and protect the world from evil. - They could instead remove the dragonic aspect altogether and worship elementals as embodiments of nature and summon up firebreath or other powers to reflect their elemental guardians. OK so those are vague guidelines but are they creative enough for you? Personally I never liked the alignment restrictions of warlock class, but seein' as alignment isn't as restrictive in Eberron....well you get the idea. Well that's good and all for your game but doesn't removing the alignment restriction from Warlocks change a lot of their fluff? Not that you're wrong for doing so it's just that Warlocks to me always seem like BBEG when you look at their statistics and powers... So once again, I like it, I've seen several people actually suggest it in the original thread. You like it? Like what? The idea of Warlocks for Seren? Well good for you then, sorry you couldn't take my suggestion to heart and instead ignored me so that you could instead criticize me criticizing you.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 12-01-07, 07:13 PM	- They can be members of the Sovereign Host who worship the Host as draconic aspects and thusly call upon their power. - They could be members of Gatekeepers who believe that theirs is the power of Varrakk and that they are chosen among the black dragon. - They could be a secret sect in Adar who work for the Storm Guardians and protect the world from evil. - They could instead remove the dragonic aspect altogether and worship elementals as embodiments of nature and summon up firebreath or other powers to reflect their elemental guardians. That is a little better, then instead, calling people, "noob, newbie, etc." Those are suggestions and constructive. That works. Thank you.
DragoonDarkfire 12-01-07, 08:03 PM	That is a little better, then instead, calling people, "noob, newbie, etc." Those are suggestions and constructive. That works. Thank you. Well actually I was just saying you LOOK like one. But whatever.
ArcTan 12-01-07, 08:12 PM	Its kewl man, if you don't like the thread, or see it as useful, don't use it. Like I said in the opening statement of the thread. However, many different people play different styles, what one person sees, another my not even think is sane. However rather then questioning the usefulness of the post, be creative, do what D&D players are supposed to do, make the world yours; and set it apart from the normal slag that drips down onto the table. These are ways people can incorporate different things into their game, rather then just use mind numbing dribble that EVERYONE uses. This stuff can set your game apart from any other. Erm, okay. But your stuff in many cases *isn't* actually any different from the suggestions given in the canon materials -- indeed, they're all fairly obvious suggestions. (Psionic classes? Among the Kalashtar? Really?) Some of them are both obvious -- and therefore thought up a long time ago by people on the boards -- and generally *discarded* by people on the boards as detrimental to the game, like creating a harmful Dhakaani = Oriental equation that stifles creativity rather than contributing to it. All I'm saying is that it might be worth looking at what's already been done by official and quasi-official sources before deciding to invest tons of effort into making a post like this. I mean, gosh, linking Warlocks to the Dragon Below? Wow, never would've thought of that. As a gamer, the one thing I hate more then anything, is the DM that uses everything in a book as cannon, and the way it is written is the only way it will go down. It makes the game borish and controlled. I understand that somethings just won't fit into a game. However, as a DM I don't look for ways to say, no, I look for ways to say, yes. A player says can I play a psionic in this campaign. Sure, but these are the pro's and con's. Lets see what we can do to still keep it interesting for you. Yes, and a great many of the wheels you're trying to reinvent here have already been done lots of times before. I'm trying to gently (okay, not-so-gently) point out that you're taking credit for big creative leaps where there aren't any.
TheKeyofE 12-02-07, 11:15 AM	I once wrote up the OA Samurai in a doc file to update it to 3.5. I made some other changes besides the one in the Dragon article, and I changed the Rokugan clans into fighting styles. I named them as follows: Crab - School of the Iron Mountain Crane - Way of the Butterfly Edge Dragon - Art of the Crushing Wave Lion - School of the Steady Blade Phoenix - Way of the Inner Light Scorpion - Art of the Silent Fang Unicorn - Path of the Striking Cloud I also updated some of the bonus feat lists to better hone some of the flavors of a clan's supposed fighting style. I wasn't trying to be Eberron specific with it though, but it could possibly be a jumping off-point. This is slightly off-topic, but I like Avon's post and it gave me the idea of assigning martial schools from Tome of Battle to the OA clans: Crab - Stone Dragon (that should be obvious) Crane - Diamond Mind (also fairly obvious) Dragon - Iron Heart maybe? Or perhaps Tiger Claw for the two-weapon stuff Lion - Devoted Spirit Phoenix - Desert Wind (again, obvious) Scorpion - Shadow Hand (again, obvious) Unicorn - White Raven, maybe? There's not a horse oriented martial school All three martial classes from Tome of Battle would work for a samurai. A samurai from each clan would focus on their clan's martial school, while adding maneuvers from other schools for versatility. I'm curious to see if anyone else has thoughts on this, but I don't want to pull the thread too far off-topic.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 12-02-07, 12:40 PM	Actually I was just reading Tome of Battle last night and thought the same thing there, Key. ArcTan as for your statement, I actually wrote this thread the first time A LONG time ago. I'm just trying to update it. Not to mention I don't recall anyone other then you saying the Dhakaani/Oriental transition was a bad thing. Personally seein' as Keith himself suggested stuff LIKE Dhakaani ninja's, I would assume that it worked fine is his game. Mind you I'm not one to go and praise Keith and say I agree with everything he writes. However, that's one thing I've always said seeing checking out some of the Eberron. Not to mention I plan on expanding some of the stuff when I get a chance. Sorry if its a little slow moving. But once again not everything typed up here is cannon either.
Kreistor2 12-02-07, 01:37 PM	Well, 12DM, I think you've missed ArcTan's point. His point is that if you approach this issue from the standpoint of creating groups that reserve and control knowledge in this way that you're restricting creative thought in the game. Nothing prevents everyone from coming up with a new idea, especially when they can see a good idea in front of them. Having the knowledge that something can be done teaches people that it is not a waste of time trying to do it. A great example of this is the pottery we call China. When trade with China was re-established, China pottery began flowing into the West, but Western potters couldn't match the quality. They began to seek out a way to reproduce it at home. With the knowledge that higher quality pottery could be made, they knew they weren't wasting their time. Not only did they meet the China standards, they exceeded them, creating higher quality pottery than the Chinese in only a few decades. If someone can do something powerful, someone else will seek to reproduce it, and they will succeed in time. So pigeonholing knowledge in the way this thread is creates a lack of knowledge. I can agree with certain cultures not choosing to invent new ways of doing things (specifically the Aereni), but for the vast majority of post-Galifaran Khorvaire, where 100 years of war should have taught militaries that you need to learn and adapt in order to counter successful tactics, there should be no restriction on learning how to do something an enemy does well. Choosing to use that knowledge is different than learning how to do it, BTW. I'm not saying that Breland should have Karrnathi undead, only that they wold learn how to make them in time, given that they know the things can be made. HAving access to raw materials gives Breland an advantage in terms of floating fortresses and the such, so it may be a question of resources (or social mores, which is more probable in this case) which gets manufactured. But having the knowledge of how to do something should not be so restrictive that only small organizations in single locations can teach it.
TheKeyofE 12-03-07, 01:17 PM	If someone can do something powerful, someone else will seek to reproduce it, and they will succeed in time. So pigeonholing knowledge in the way this thread is creates a lack of knowledge. I can agree with certain cultures not choosing to invent new ways of doing things (specifically the Aereni), but for the vast majority of post-Galifaran Khorvaire, where 100 years of war should have taught militaries that you need to learn and adapt in order to counter successful tactics, there should be no restriction on learning how to do something an enemy does well. Choosing to use that knowledge is different than learning how to do it, BTW. I'm not saying that Breland should have Karrnathi undead, only that they wold learn how to make them in time, given that they know the things can be made. HAving access to raw materials gives Breland an advantage in terms of floating fortresses and the such, so it may be a question of resources (or social mores, which is more probable in this case) which gets manufactured. But having the knowledge of how to do something should not be so restrictive that only small organizations in single locations can teach it. To remedy this, really all you need to do is take 12dm's stuff and change the subtext. Think of it not as "Only these cultures have these base classes" but rather "these cultures are more likely than others to have these base classes." In other words, 12dm's suggestions would indicate which countries have a higher percentage of the listed class, rather than indicating the ONLY place you could find that class. The problem I see with ArcTan's posts is he seems condescending and unhelpful. I agree that forcing certain classes to only exist in certain places is restrictive, but that was not the original point of the thread. The thread (as stated in the first post) is just 12dm's OPINIONS on how it might be, to be used as a jumping-off point for other people to form their own ideas.
skrap-san 12-03-07, 03:03 PM	I agree with TheKeyofE. I find it simpler to figure out my own opinions when I see others take on things. Especially when it comes to things like campaign settings.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 12-04-07, 01:55 PM	Thank you Skrap & Key. Btw I do not have "Dragon Magic", which is probably why I never heard of the class. But those are good points, which is why I started this thread. I actually wrote the document I copied and pasted most of this from over 2 years ago (wow it seems like just yesterday).