Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RFrenchJr 03-21-08, 12:31 AM	Hello everyone, Just wondering if there has been any comments or musings on the existence of Thri-Kreen in Eberron or of Gray Elves. I have two players who are joining my existing campaign and I wanted to see if there was anything already out there before I go mucking around.
Siran Dunmorgan 03-21-08, 01:27 AM	I'm not sure about Gray Elves, but there are a lot of thri-kreen in Xen'drik; take a look at City of Stormreach for the part they play in modern society. —Siran Dunmorgan
Syltorian 03-21-08, 07:05 AM	Regarding Gray Elves: Eberron does not include any subraces. The only elves you will find are PHB elves and drow, whom many consider a different race, as well as perhaps aquatic elves. If your player wants to go with a Gray Elf and can't be moved to play a regular elf, nothing in canon will help him; you can of course decide to make a specific family of Aerenal gray elves in your campaign; they would not be a subrace, just a lineage with a tendency to be smarter if weaker. Regarding Thri-Kreen: As Siran mentioned, their is some information on them in City of Stormreach. Not a lot, but enough to tell you that they live in Xen'drik and are good guides - if of a completely alien mindset.
RFrenchJr 03-21-08, 09:50 AM	Thanks much for your help.
Elton74 03-21-08, 10:45 AM	I think the Player's Guide to Eberron might be able to help you.
Edymnion 03-21-08, 10:52 AM	I think the Player's Guide to Eberron might be able to help you.If by "help" you mean "give random nonsensical placement for", yes, it will.
Kreistor2 03-22-08, 09:00 AM	Eberron does not include any subraces. Eberron includes whateer you want it to include. Period. So, no, thanks, you're just wrong. Anyway, including Gray Elves is fairly easy. You can choose to make them a real race, if you like, or have them as something like albinos: they pop out of the normal gene pool every once in a while. (Gee, that makes albinos a sub-race of humans. Not like we haven't had albino heroes... okay, anti-heroes...) That's what I do with them, anyway. So you can have Grey Elves anywhere you have elves. Thri-kreen can inhabit a lot of places. Xendrik is certainly a typical choice. Shadow Marches might work out. I suppose the Talenta could be okay, but I think there's too much there already, personally. Q'barra is an option. SOmething was probably there before the lizardfolk were driven out of the Talenta to there. I wouldn't put them in Sarlona, personally. I like the idea of that being a human dominant place, and too many races on that continent degrade that feel. But if you don't agree with that goal, go ahead.
Edymnion 03-22-08, 10:04 PM	Eberron includes whateer you want it to include. Period. So, no, thanks, you're just wrong.And people say *I* jump on people and force my opinion down their throats?
Ilmryn Glannath 03-22-08, 11:27 PM	My take on the faerie would be that they are some isolated surviving group of elves from ancient Qabalrin who continue to hold on their ancient traditions. They could dwell in some remote location in Xen'drik, or perhaps on another plane of existence.
Kreistor2 03-23-08, 08:35 AM	And people say *I* jump on people and force my opinion down their throats? Opinion? Well, maybe. But I'm pretty sure I came darn close to quoting the ECS. To whit: "...everything in the PHB, DMG, and MM has a place in Eberron." (See ECS, Pg 8 for full quote.) There you are: I'm jumping on people and forcing rules down their throat. Better?
Syltorian 03-23-08, 11:04 AM	"...everything in the PHB, DMG, and MM has a place in Eberron." (See ECS, Pg 8 for full quote.) Corellon Larethian and Pelor? The Windwept Depth of Pandemonium? Modern Era Firearms? All are in the PHB/DMG. So all are in Eberron. I'm sure there are ways to include them if you want. But they are not in Eberron by default. Likewise the Gray Elves and other subraces are possible options, but not default campaign setting. I agree that means less in Eberron than in other settings. My own campaign is far from purist, so I'm not judging - merely pointing out that, despite being less canon-driven than other settings, there is such a thing as the 'default'. And that default comes without subraces. Albeit with the option of including them if you decide to do so - which is why I proposed a possibility on how to include them in my post above.
Belabras 03-24-08, 12:35 AM	I'm soooo looking forward to 4e when all those subraces just disappear....
Syltorian 03-24-08, 08:17 AM	I'm soooo looking forward to 4e when all those subraces just disappear.... With only two types of "elves" in the Player's Handbook... *hides* :D (Yes, I am aware that is a bit of a misrepresentation).
Edymnion 03-24-08, 03:53 PM	I'm soooo looking forward to 4e when all those subraces just disappear....For a whole 6 months, if you're lucky. Honestly, do you really think WotC will ignore the rabid elf fanboys by not putting in a million and one elf subraces in 4e, that will make elves perfect at *EVERYTHING*, just like 3e? Eberron wasn't supposed to have subraces either, but they managed to creep in all the same.
Belabras 03-24-08, 08:48 PM	For a whole 6 months, if you're lucky. Honestly, do you really think WotC will ignore the rabid elf fanboys by not putting in a million and one elf subraces in 4e, that will make elves perfect at *EVERYTHING*, just like 3e? Eberron wasn't supposed to have subraces either, but they managed to creep in all the same. Let me dream Edy, let me dream.
Kreistor2 03-25-08, 12:38 AM	Corellon Larethian and Pelor?[quote] The great thing about the Sovereign Host and Dark Six is that they include every god from every pantheon. And there are regions that have not yet converted to the SH/D6, so, yes, you can have villages or areas that still worship Pelor, Corellon, Tyr, et al. [quote]The Windwept Depth of Pandemonium? Planes have been specifically rewritten, which overrides Core because it says it does (whereas sub-races don't ever get mentioned one way or the other in the ECS); however, such regions as have been described for the Core planes will 90% of the time find a home in the ECS planes. Many are almost copies of the originals, and so many planescape locations can drop directly into ECS cosmology and no one would know. Modern Era Firearms? Optional rule in the DMG, so optional rule in Eberron. I'm sure there are ways to include them if you want. But they are not in Eberron by default. What is this "default" thing you speak of. Even now the vast majority of Eberron is left for the DM to define. There is nothing anywhere by default, and so all is blank, not default. Likewise the Gray Elves and other subraces are possible options, but not default campaign setting. Again with this word "default". There is no rule one way or the other, so I can say they are in by default just as easily and truthfully as you say they are out. "Default" is only default if it is defined as a default. If there is no definition, there is no default. If you don't get what I mean, try programming something. Can you set a default without defining something? Nope. Eery option gets assigned a numerical value, and choosing not to set that value leaves it either '0' (hopefully, or you're in trouble) or random, which means it's any of the possible selections. To be a default it must be declared a default. I don't see anywhere in the ECS where "sub-races are out is the default" is stated. there is such a thing as the 'default'. Defaults must be declared. No such default is declared in the ECS. If you believe it is, please provide a quote. Defaults can only be defaults if they are declared by the text to be a default, or if the option is the only one remaining. Since both options remain, the first definition must be your intended one. And, oh by the way, I don't think you know what default really means... de·fault /dɪˈfɔlt/ –noun 1. failure to act; inaction or neglect: They lost their best client by sheer default. 2. failure to meet financial obligations. 3. Law. failure to perform an act or obligation legally required, esp. to appear in court or to plead at a time assigned. 4. Sports. failure to arrive in time for, participate in, or complete a scheduled match. 5. lack; want; absence. 6. Computers. a value that a program or operating system assumes, or a course of action that a program or operating system will take, when the user or programmer specifies no overriding value or action. –verb (used without object) 7. to fail in fulfilling or satisfying an engagement, claim, or obligation. 8. to fail to meet financial obligations or to account properly for money in one's care: When he defaulted in his payments, the bank foreclosed on the car. 9. Law. to fail to appear in court. 10. Sports. a. to fail to participate in or complete a match. b. to lose a match by default. –verb (used with object) 11. to fail to perform or pay: to default a debt. 12. to declare to be in default, esp. legally: The judge defaulted the defendant. 13. Sports. a. to fail to compete in (a scheduled game, race, etc.). b. to lose by default. 14. Law. to lose by failure to appear in court. If you check, the usage of "default" meaning "an option selected without human interaction" does not apply in the human world, only in areas where a machine can make a choice for us. DM's must choose everything in a PnP game, so there is no "default" in anything that does not include a computer -- any realm, any system, any choice the DM must at some point accept or deny. DM's choose, and by choosing eliminate the possiblity of a machine chosen default. It is quite impossible for a DM to run a game without choosing to accept or reject everything a player may want to bring into a game. By merely mentioning something, the DM must choose it or reject it: it cannot be used until it is mentioned, and the moment it is allowed in the game, the DM has made a choice and denied the existence of a default. The "default" choice selected by a computer is not possible in a human-driven game. This attempt to use a computer-only definition of the word "default" to imply superiority of the "no sub-race" option, or any other option for anything a human must select, is just as arbitrary as the previous attempts. You have to manipulate and abuse rules (and this time the English language) in order to achieve that false position.
OctaviusIII 03-25-08, 01:17 AM	Someone likes to debate too much...
ArcTan 03-25-08, 03:18 AM	*sigh* The yelling back and forth about subraces continues. There is nothing *wrong* with putting Grey Elves into Eberron. It can be as simple as "This character is, mechanically, a Grey Elf but in-character is nothing but an Elf who happens to be smarter than average". It can be "Let's mechanically represent Elves from the higher priestly castes as smarter but frailer than ordinary Elves". It can even be "Khorvaire Elves have a less monomaniacal focus on the secrets of arcane magic than their Aereni counterparts and so Khorvaire Elves are closer to the High Elves of the PHB and Aereni are Grey Elves". Whatever floats your boat. There's a reason someone has a sig of Keith Baker outright saying "You know guys, I don't actually hate subraces".
Syltorian 03-25-08, 11:42 AM	Thanks for the clarification on the definition of 'default', Kreistor. I admit I thought that it meant 'without any changes/additions/rejections", but I appear to have been wrong (outside the computer definition, but my knowledge about computers is pretty limited). My apologies for overusing that word in a wrong context. I shall try to avoid making that mistake in the future. I will admit that my statement that "Eberron does not include any subraces" erred by being too general. I concede your point that the ECS does not tell people there are no subraces (nor should it!), and expressly allows them if people want them. So, by and large, I accept your argument. I stick to the belief that including subraces constitutes an addition (which in my view constitutes a change), as they are not mentioned anywhere in the written material. I am, of course, fully aware that absence of proof does not equal proof of absence. I also agree with you that most things a DM does constitute additions (or rejections, or changes), whether that is including gray elves or a PC's home village not marked on the map. So I assume my answer should have read "Eberron has not assigned a specific place to (most) subraces. Their inclusion (or exclusion) and role is left to the individual DM to decide." That's my last word on this topic. I am not enough of a 'purist' to continue a discussion that I expect neither of us, nor many of the other forum-goers enjoy. As I said above, my own presentation of the setting is far from 'pure' (by pure I mean following the setting by the letter without alterations, additions or rejections), and some things actually contradict the setting information as written. As an aside, since 'default' was the wrong word, what would the correct word be for what I meant? I'd really like to know - thanks to anyone who can help. Finally, my apologies to all those people who had to read through this round of subrace-debate.
OctaviusIII 03-25-08, 09:29 PM	As an aside, since 'default' was the wrong word, what would the correct word be for what I meant? I'd really like to know - thanks to anyone who can help. I would've used default as well, but there are a variety of words and phrases that might mean what you meant: Plain vanilla (nothing added, nothing subtracted, boring and unaltered); standard (regular and widely used or sold); unadulterated (not mixed with impurities); pure (free of extraneous elements of any kind)... Perhaps 'bland' Eberron or 'standard' Eberron or 'pre-DM' Eberron might have also worked. I must say though, I've never seen anyone as dogmatic about doing whatever you want as he was, so it might be that nothing would have worked. On-topic, I agree with what's been said: gray elves can be wherever you want them to be. Perhaps if you like you could stick them in the cities to better reflect their more 'tame' nature. Just sayin'.
Edymnion 03-25-08, 10:16 PM	I must say though, I've never seen anyone as dogmatic about doing whatever you want as he was, so it might be that nothing would have worked.Kreistor just likes to troll. Hang around a while, and you'll probably see him defending the idea that there are Red Wizards of Thay in Eberron, just to watch people get up in arms over it.
OctaviusIII 03-26-08, 12:37 AM	Kreistor just likes to troll. Hang around a while, and you'll probably see him defending the idea that there are Red Wizards of Thay in Eberron, just to watch people get up in arms over it. It seemed like a troll. Perhaps I'm too much of an optimist. Bloody Ontarians... (said the man from BC)
Arcane Guyver 03-26-08, 12:46 AM	If you want to include something like 'Gray Elves' in your Eberron campaign, I suggest going the extra mile in fleshing them out. No, they don't have a place in Khorvairian society. They may come from some other region, or they could be part of some larger and very secret plot. The PC knows he's different from all other elves for whatever reason, and finds out later that he's a displaced relation of some crazy elven subculture that has made a pact with some powerful Mabaran outsider. Even better, make it so he has a slight aura about him (and all other members of his race) that severely mutes colors, hence the name. With their superior intellects, they might have some system in place, sort of like the akashic record in 'Arcane Evolved,' a living collection of memories that gray elves can tap into (and the PC taps into occasionally without trying). These creatures could be a source of nasty cerebremancers...give them some obscure exotic weapons and some 3rd-party spells/psionic powers, they could make for an interesting cult for the PCs to take down... Sorry for rambling, but I do like repolishing old and seemingly useless game pieces...
Kreistor2 03-27-08, 12:30 AM	Kreistor just likes to troll. Hang around a while, and you'll probably see him defending the idea that there are Red Wizards of Thay in Eberron, just to watch people get up in arms over it. Been a while since anyone called me a troll to my face. More than a decade, actually. I will disagree with the moniker. Trolls start things. I didn't start this: I simply argued against something someone else said that was, in my view, an incorrect interpretation. Syltorian seems to understand my perspective now, and so my effort was not in vain. Trolls don't care about the issues: they just want to win or to argue in order to boost their own self-esteem at the expense of others. To do that, they start things, because they need the fix. I don't start these arguments. I only face particular issues when others raise them: I hardly need the self-esteem boost. If I did this to boost my self-esteem, I would need to start the issues when my self-esteem was low. Since I never start them, the timing doesn't fit a personal need. However, I have in the past been a troll, but I learned my lesson long, long ago (before some of the DM's reading this were born, actually. I ain't young anymore). I grew out of that need, mostly because I was having success elsewhere in my life. (When you get your self-esteem boosted for real success, you don't need the artificial, hurtful kind anymore.) I know all the tricks, all the traps, all the methods to embarrass, confuse, and manipulate. I play nice the vast majority of the time, now. But I know those tricks, and I save them for special people -- people who think they know better than others, or want to manipulate something to their own purpose or viewpoint. (Oh, I also use them against true trolls.) Gee, sound familiar? I can understand why you might think me a troll, Edy. You do what you do out of a sense of idealism, but you have used trollish methods yourself in order to achieve your goal, and when you did, you found me in your face. So, yes, I am a troll, but only when you're trolling... However, was I trolling this time, as you have accused? Let's look... Syltorian made the opening volley in #3. "Eberron does nto include sub-races." Okay, fine: he didn't know there was someone lurking waiting to pounce on the sub-race issue. Or maybe he knew one and forgot about me. regardless, he posted it as a fact, not an opinion. I responded in #7 with: "Eberron includes whateer you want it to include. Period. So, no, thanks, you're just wrong." Is that a troll? I don't really think so. It's a flat statement exactly like Syltorian's: stated as a fact, not an opinion just like he did. (I do tend to copy authors' styles when responding to them. It's a trick I use to uncover hypocrisy. If I find an author that slams me for using the same style that he already used, I know I have an easily defeated opponent, and I modify my response according to mood. I like to play with people like that sometimes.) My statement was short, non-expansive, and lacked justification, just like Syltorian's did. What's more, Syltorian didn't respond to it for almost 48 hours! Who did respond to it? Gee, looky there! #8 belongs to Edy! "And people say *I* jump on people and force my opinion down their throats?" Now, is this a response that attacks the statement, or is it a response that attacks the author. I admit that calling a previous poster "wrong" as I did (in #7) is not good form, but it's not a direct insult that characterizes the previous author as stupid, self-centered, etc. Edy, on the other hand, has attacked me, claiming I "jumped on" Syl and "forced my opinion down others throats". (Note that if this were true, then Syltorian had done the same thing and had not been attacked by Edy.) So, who trolled? Me (who attacked the statement), or Edy (who attacked the author)? Of course, #10 is a troll, right? I don't think so. My next response in #10 did not attack Edy further, despite his challenge. (Heh, I wrote five different responses and abandoned quite a few in my head to be sure I didn't get suckered into the flame war Edy was offering.) I even admitted to him being at least partially right! Heheh... I like #10. The one thing it does do is mock Edy, which I will admit trolls a certain amount, but without direct attacks, it's hard to moderate. And then Syltorian responds with #11. Would Syl have responded without Edy's prompting? Probably not. Syl responds to #10, not #8, and #10 wouldn't have happened without Edy (and was not directed at Syl in the first place... #10 was aimed at the person I was responding to, specifically Edy, because of the mockery). I think Syl would have left #8 alone as an unsupported statement, and we would never have gone any further. If I were a troll, wouldn't I have made sure #8 piqued Syl's interest, not #10? So, Syl responded with #11, which continued the "default" position, but provided a challenge for me in the opening paragraph. Syl suggested that I could probably include everything he listed, which I decided was a good chance to show off my creativity. Last I checked, that's not a troll's characteristic (ie. being artistically creative doesn't hurt anyone, so isn't recognized as a standard forum troll tactic). There are 10 lurkers for every poster on any forum, and we don't know what they might be looking for from us. If I have a small chance of helping them figure out how to include something in Eberron, I'm going to take it: it's good practice for me, and it might teach someone else. So, I did exactly what he said I could probably do, just to show it really could be done, and that began #16. And then I stumbled onto something. I bothered looking up the definition of "default". Yep, I didn't do that until I was already done writing up the stuff about pantheons and planes in Eberron. And had made a couple of those "What is this 'default' thing you're talking about?" comments. I realized I needed a strong support to say something like that, so I did what I always do in such cases: I studied. Trolls don't do that. They invent. They lie. They use innuendo. They don't crack open dictionaries and reference materials to prove their points: trolls think they know everything. When someone quotes a reference, they are demonstrating that sources are more important than the author of the message. It is extraordinarily easy to provide references for your thoughts these days. There are enormous resources out there to back a reasonable position. It's the troll that claims that, as one guy tried to tell me right before I slapped him silly, "I love internet debating because no one can ever quote sources." Copy paste, copy paste. Dead troll. Too easy. You can get copies of laws, government statistics, entire novels, and even reasonably accurate encyclopedic entries in Wikipedia (which is probably more accurate than a lot of things, if you avoid the entries involving commercial ventures). I already knew that the computer version of "default" couldn't be used in real life, but I'd always thought default had another usage which would apply: I was wrong, just as Syltorian was. Heh, I overplayed it in #16, of course, but that's just debating strategy (diminishing your opponent through pointing out weaknesses in their knowledge of English is acceptable). I didn't realize that the usage we've gotten used to is so very computer specific, but I'm a guy that works daily on the guts of computers, so I've had excessive exposure to the computer version of the term. It's no surprise I was infected in the same way, but I am darned well going to remember that one now! The misuse of "default" has gone far beyond this forum. As for #16 being trollish, well, I wasn't kind to Syl, I'll agree, so apologies to Syltorian. I could likely have used a softer touch and gotten the point across, especially after realizing the definition of "default" did not allow that particular usage. My only excuse is the late hour and work stress, which isn't justification enough, I admit. Of course, that's true right now, too. It's after witching hour, and I spent 13.5hrs at work today. It's a new job with a panic product release coming, so not much I can do to avoid the hours. Put in the time, make probation, and get a big bonus if the project flies: that's the plan. So, who was the troll? Me for biting on Edy's hook in #10, or Edy for turning it personal in #9 (and again in #21)? I'll let the reader decide that.
Gurv 03-28-08, 01:07 AM	*gives Kreistor2 a hug*
Kreistor2 03-28-08, 08:06 AM	*gives Kreistor2 a hug* Get yer hands offa me!
Mystrich 04-02-08, 09:26 PM	Corellon Larethian and Pelor? The Windwept Depth of Pandemonium? Modern Era Firearms? All are in the PHB/DMG. So all are in Eberron. Corellon Larethian idea- Worshipped by Giant-Enslaved Elves, but fell out of favor as the Skorpion God I don't remember the name of the Drow worship and the Undying Court became the primary religions. Pelor ideas- Worshipped in Frostfell by the few sentient species that live there and need what little sunlight they get. or Worshipped on Syrania and given thanks to for blessing them with a perfect environment Pandemonium idea- Xoriat, in it's madness, has sub-planes, orbs that appear small until entered (think spherical Gate spell), which bring said person to entirely new planes. Firearms ideas- Part of the pseudo technology used by the Giants before they destroyed themselves. or Used commonly in the last war until so many protections against them were made, they became antiques. The ECS says it exists, not that it will tell you exactly where. Where do rust monsters exist? Oozes? Carrion crawlers? It doesn't say in the ECS, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Eberron was made so DMs could add things where needed (Unanswered mysteries, unexplored continents, etc).
Sakon22 04-04-08, 12:41 AM	Corellon Larethian idea- Worshipped by Giant-Enslaved Elves, but fell out of favor as the Skorpion God I don't remember the name of the Drow worship and the Undying Court became the primary religions. Pelor ideas- Worshipped in Frostfell by the few sentient species that live there and need what little sunlight they get. or Worshipped on Syrania and given thanks to for blessing them with a perfect environment Pandemonium idea- Xoriat, in it's madness, has sub-planes, orbs that appear small until entered (think spherical Gate spell), which bring said person to entirely new planes. Firearms ideas- Part of the pseudo technology used by the Giants before they destroyed themselves. or Used commonly in the last war until so many protections against them were made, they became antiques. The ECS says it exists, not that it will tell you exactly where. Where do rust monsters exist? Oozes? Carrion crawlers? It doesn't say in the ECS, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Eberron was made so DMs could add things where needed (Unanswered mysteries, unexplored continents, etc). Hey Kreistor you enjoying that green, speckled mushroom? Because you just got 1UP'd! But in all seriousness, I don't think Gray elves (or any other subraces) should be included without establishing where they came from and how they are different from other elves. If I were to do this, I'd prefer the idea of Aeranal elves being gray and Khorvaire elves being high (elves.)
Captain_Kobold 04-06-08, 12:28 PM	RFrenchJr: The position and role of Gray Elves in the Eberron setting has not been detailed, so its up to you to decide how and where to place them. There have been many excellent suggestions as to how to incorporate them in this thread. If you want to include them, making the Aerenal Elves the Gray Elves is the most appropriate I think. Syltorian: Your use of english was fine as far as I can tell, although it sounds like it caused some trouble for non-native english speakers. The phrase "by default" has an idiomatic meaning that is different to the use of just "default". As to your first statement, you could have said "Eberron does not include any subraces. It does not specifically exclude any either. While it does not mention them in the Campaign Setting book, and the creator of the setting prefers not to use them, a DM can introduce them into his game in the same way he can introduce anything else he wishes." That leaves less open to misunderstandings, but as Kreistor said; you weren't to know that there was someone ready to pounce on your phraseology. He could have phrased his response a little more tactfully, but he was correct as well.
Rageofthemodrons101 04-11-08, 10:46 PM	In Secrets of Xen'drik, it says that the Thri-Kreen inhabit the Menechtarun.:OMG!
justicar347 04-15-08, 10:25 AM	There have only been a few mentions of Thri-kreen in Eberron. All of it just places them in a Xen'drix desert. Of course, 3rd ed hasn't really detailed them that much anyway. To bad, I really like them. As to the Grey Elves, I was at Origins several years ago and asked Keith for his opinion on them. He said no sub races in Eberron. I was over joyed because I played with a group that liked to use the dozen or more sub races of elves to pick and choose their ability scores. Particularly he didn't care for how they tried to squeze in the chaos nomes. Still, he did point out that if you really want them their you can add them. If you really want Gray Elves (don't know why you would though) I would suggest using them to repressent one of the different sects of the elves. For instance all Valenar or Aerenal elves gray elves.
Rania 04-15-08, 04:00 PM	So, just to clarify: gray elves are like the "normal" ones, but with added modifiers of +2 INT and -2 STR, and high elves are the PHB ones?
Arcane Guyver 04-15-08, 10:43 PM	Pretty much. Their flavor text in the MM isn't all that much different either. Without completely reimagining them and reassigning them an interesting culture, I just wouldn't allow them, period.
WebJiCi 04-21-08, 08:12 AM	Hello everyone, Just wondering if there has been any comments or musings on the existence of Thri-Kreen in Eberron or of Gray Elves. I have two players who are joining my existing campaign and I wanted to see if there was anything already out there before I go mucking around.In Eberron Player's Guide, there is a paragraph on page 154 that states that Thri-Kreens are found in the Menechtarun desert in Xen'drik. However, feel free to to implant them in the Valenar desert as a small tribe. As for gray elves, Eberron is more punishing. No subrace is present in this setting, whether are elves, dwarves, gnomes or halflings. However, there is nothing preventing you to have subraces in Eberron. I see gray elves as a almost-extinct or reclusive tribal subrace native from Aerenal. Their knowledge of magic and frail build could fit well with all the knowledge and worship of the deathless.
Dr. Benway 04-24-08, 03:22 AM	Kriestor: Say you what you want, but the fact that you started an argument to the point of being snide and defining words syntax and somantics, means that you were, by your own definition, trolling. I dont buy your statement that your opening statement wasnt worded in a provocative manner meant to offend and ruffle feathers. Slytoran's wasnt. Categorizing his CORRECT statement as an 'opening volley' is innaccurate and diverts attention from the fact that you were the one who first brought this discussion into a confrontational place. You started the argument. That makes you a troll. Take your regeneration and like it. Furthermore, YOU are the one who is wrong. There are no subraces in Eberron as it is written. If you want to add them, that is your choice to do so, but it is an addition to that was not intended to be part of the complex and well defined balance of powers and bloodlines that make up the setting. Racial and familial purity is a MAJOR aspect of the setting, so no, there are no grey elves, strongheart halflings, or gold dwarves in Eberron...as it was conceived and created. That being said, your game is your game, if you want to add all kinds of crazy stuff from different settings and make your own version of something, go for it. Thats what creativity is for, just dont pretend that they are intended to be part of a setting where they arent. Notice that every time the possibilities of subraces are mentioned somewhere, its always grudingly and as some freakish accident or result of experimentation or something. Does that tell you nothing...? To sum up, in practice, I agree with you wholeheartedly that you have the POSSIBILITY of introducing sub races, alternate pantheons, and other stuff that is not part of Eberron cannon. I do it myself: there are cannons on the airships in my world, pirates with a pistol in one hand and a wand in another, classes and equipment from oriental adventures can be found among the dhakaani...those are the ways I have introduced non-eberron elements to my eberron game, but I dont pretend it was intended for them to be there from the start, and so I adjust all the relevant elements in my game that need to be redefined because of their presence. However, just presuming that those things are a part of the game without some adaption is inaccurrate and goes against the internal continuity of the setting...but be that as it may, you absolutely did jump down peoples throats for not agreeing with your predetermined perspective that they are. That kind of behavior is bad enough when you are right, but the fact is that you are dead Wrong with a captial Wr, and that makes it worse... Troll.:rolleyes: DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall prevail?
Aethios 04-24-08, 03:26 PM	Kriestor: Say you what you want, but the fact that you started an argument to the point of being snide and defining words syntax and somantics, means that you were, by your own definition, trolling. I dont buy your statement that your opening statement wasnt worded in a provocative manner meant to offend and ruffle feathers. Slytoran's wasnt. Categorizing his CORRECT statement as an 'opening volley' is innaccurate and diverts attention from the fact that you were the one who first brought this discussion into a confrontational place. You started the argument. That makes you a troll. Take your regeneration and like it. Furthermore, YOU are the one who is wrong. There are no subraces in Eberron as it is written. If you want to add them, that is your choice to do so, but it is an addition to that was not intended to be part of the complex and well defined balance of powers and bloodlines that make up the setting. Racial and familial purity is a MAJOR aspect of the setting, so no, there are no grey elves, strongheart halflings, or gold dwarves in Eberron...as it was conceived and created. That being said, your game is your game, if you want to add all kinds of crazy stuff from different settings and make your own version of something, go for it. Thats what creativity is for, just dont pretend that they are intended to be part of a setting where they arent. Notice that every time the possibilities of subraces are mentioned somewhere, its always grudingly and as some freakish accident or result of experimentation or something. Does that tell you nothing...? To sum up, in practice, I agree with you wholeheartedly that you have the POSSIBILITY of introducing sub races, alternate pantheons, and other stuff that is not part of Eberron cannon. I do it myself: there are cannons on the airships in my world, pirates with a pistol in one hand and a wand in another, classes and equipment from oriental adventures can be found among the dhakaani...those are the ways I have introduced non-eberron elements to my eberron game, but I dont pretend it was intended for them to be there from the start, and so I adjust all the relevant elements in my game that need to be redefined because of their presence. However, just presuming that those things are a part of the game without some adaption is inaccurrate and goes against the internal continuity of the setting...but be that as it may, you absolutely did jump down peoples throats for not agreeing with your predetermined perspective that they are. That kind of behavior is bad enough when you are right, but the fact is that you are dead Wrong with a captial Wr, and that makes it worse... Troll.:rolleyes: DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall prevail? That argument was over a while ago. Moot subject, and now you are the troll. :eek: