Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RogueElement 02-17-07, 09:13 PM	Does anyone have good ideas for using up the Artificer's 1st level Craft Reserve? It's not a big deal but I'd hate to let the 20 xp go to waste. All I can think of doing is making 20 Identify scrolls, but I'm not sure I'll have 250 gp at the end of 1st level. If the rest of the party does not have UMD, is there anything you can make for your party?
Edymnion 02-17-07, 10:27 PM	Scrolls are the only thing you can really make at level 1, since thats the only crafting feat you have. At lvl 1, you're not really going to be crafting much of anything. Lvl 2 is when the artificer starts coming into their own when they can start brewing healing potions and repair oils.
Dragom 02-17-07, 10:55 PM	20 scrolls of Identify cost 2250 GP. You have to pay for the 100gp pearls. I recomend the "Tool Box" class of spells scrolls. The spells that make you say "That sure would be handy now but who would ever think to prepare a spell that is so specific?" Scrolls that make your DM think you chose them at random. Like Hold portal Comprehend languages Detect Secret doors Tensers floating Disk Disguise self Nystuls magic Aura Erase Reduce person Endure elements Hide from animals Hide from undead Pass without trace Speak with animals Death Watch Remove Fear Spells that are so very handy but only in exactly the right circumstances. As such you may benefit from the safety net of preparedness for many adventures to come. Or you can blow it all on Cure Light Wounds, and Repair light damages and Magic missles. Your call. Wait no Magic Missles suck scroll wise. Sure one might be handy now but by level 5 a 1st level magic missle is just sad. Magic stone is actually better. That or colour spray, but you have to make sure to use it before it crumbles to dust in dismay at it's own obselecence. Though it would suck to have to borrow money off of your friends By RAW to avoid an artificer and wizard duo adding every wizard spell to the wizards book, they made artificer scrolls unusable without a UMD check. A resonable DM could be persuaded to adjust this and say, that a wizard cannot write down a spell from an artificers scroll. As the Language that artificers use is too different then what wizards and sorcerers use. Something about the phonetics not being aligned properly for long term storage in a living mind.
RogueElement 02-17-07, 11:46 PM	20 scrolls of Identify cost 2250 GP. You have to pay for the 100gp pearls. I'm pretty sure you don't have to pay for any of the spell components because the Artificer is only emulating the spell effect, not casting them, in order to create the magic item. Hence, the Artificer is the guy to see for scrolls of Identify, Wish, Resurrection, etc. Does anyone have a link for errata on this, because it doesnt say anything about having to pay for the spell components in the Eberron book? Edy, can you add that to the Artificer FAQ? (whatever the answer may be) I totally agree with you on the utility spells. I think I'll create one or two of each, especially Floating disk, comp lang, and the healing spells. I don't think I'll do any combat spells tho because my UMD roll is going to be dangerously low at 1st level. In fact, looking at my UMD probabilities, I'm not even sure I'll be able to create ANY scrolls even with 2 rolls each. It might be cheaper to buy them... Basically an Artificer just isn't an Artificer until 2nd level.
Dragom 02-17-07, 11:50 PM	Are you remembering to factor in the skill enhancement infusion?
RogueElement 02-18-07, 12:01 AM	Unfortunately, yes. If I have a Warforged Artificer with 10 Chr (+0), and maxed out UMD skill (+4), Artisan Bonus (+2), and Skill Enhancement infusion (+2), I only have a +8 to succeed on the roll. I don't have 5 ranks in Decipher Script or Spellcraft yet so no synergy bonuses there. I can't take 10, so I have a 55% chance of blowing my 12.5gp, 1xp, and a day of my life. Even with 2 rolls, I'm not sure if I can make it. The xp is free, but the 12.5gp is a lot of cash to throw down the sewer for a 1st level character... Am I missing a trick maybe (hope hope)?
Dragom 02-18-07, 12:07 AM	Well you can try adding an action point to the second roll for the important jobs, and when you multiply the 55% by 55% you get your true failure rate of 30%. You can allso do an all or nothing trick by doing all your spells on one scroll. No there ar no actual rules for or against this this. So you can do it all in one day and feel free to blow an action point on both rolls.
RogueElement 02-18-07, 12:16 AM	Is there a masterwork tool for UMD? If not, could you use a masterwork quill/ink set for the UMD checks when scribing a scroll?
Ryoden_Anariavas 02-18-07, 01:03 AM	I'm pretty sure you don't have to pay for any of the spell components because the Artificer is only emulating the spell effect, not casting them, in order to create the magic item. Hence, the Artificer is the guy to see for scrolls of Identify, Wish, Resurrection, etc. Does anyone have a link for errata on this, because it doesnt say anything about having to pay for the spell components in the Eberron book? Edy, can you add that to the Artificer FAQ? (whatever the answer may be) The artificer (unfourtunatly) needs to supply the material component cost when he is making any item. The UMD is only to "fake" the ability to cast the spell. All other requirements apply to the creation of any item. Time, Xp, 1/2 Base Cost, and any expensive material component is needed as usual. Otherwise imagine the savings on a wand of stoneskin:$$: :$$: :$$: :$$:
Dragom 02-19-07, 03:02 AM	Eep, Artisan bonus is for activating items not making them +6 bonus then, 14/20 = 70% and 70% x 70% = 49% Failure = 1% Average Savings Action point x2 perhaps +6 bonus +3.5, 10.5/20 = 52.5% and 52.5% x 52.5% = 27.6% Failure = 22.4% Average Savings Without Skill Focus (UMD) or Magical affinity or a Charisma Bonus or a good affiliation at an organization known for it's Magical Workshops, (like House Cannith or The Twelve or the Arcane Congress) It may be a better use of your time to buy your scrolls. Maybe you should stick to Alchemy for the first level? Acid is a DC:15 and Alchemsts fire is DC:20 and the GP costs are 1/3 to start with.
ChimericalWolf 02-19-07, 06:59 PM	I'm pretty sure you don't have to pay for any of the spell components because the Artificer is only emulating the spell effect, not casting them, in order to create the magic item. Hence, the Artificer is the guy to see for scrolls of Identify, Wish, Resurrection, etc. Does anyone have a link for errata on this, because it doesnt say anything about having to pay for the spell components in the Eberron book? Edy, can you add that to the Artificer FAQ? (whatever the answer may be) Uh, regular magic creation says you need to pay for the material components, and it doesn't say anywhere in artificer that you don't, so....you still need to pay them. It's like the Warforged. Unless something specifically says otherwise, treat them the same as everyone else. And the FAQ is for Frequently Asked Questions. This would be the first time I've ever seen confusion on the issue, so it's not really a Frequently Asked Question.
RogueElement 02-19-07, 07:44 PM	Uh, regular magic creation says you need to pay for the material components, and it doesn't say anywhere in artificer that you don't, so....you still need to pay them. It's like the Warforged. Unless something specifically says otherwise, treat them the same as everyone else. And the FAQ is for Frequently Asked Questions. This would be the first time I've ever seen confusion on the issue, so it's not really a Frequently Asked Question. I meant Frequently ANSWERED Questions. :D Just kidding. Everyone seems to be answering it the same way though, but does anyone have a page number or errata or sage advice? Not that I don't believe you guys...
ChimericalWolf 02-19-07, 08:40 PM	Eh, like I said, this is the first time I've ever seen this issue come up, so I don't think you'll have much luck.
Cifer 02-19-07, 08:58 PM	Hold portal Comprehend languages Detect Secret doors Tensers floating Disk Disguise self Nystuls magic Aura Erase Reduce person Endure elements Hide from animals Hide from undead Pass without trace Speak with animals Death Watch Remove Fear Nice list. I'm so stealing that.
Nightshade 02-20-07, 07:19 PM	Nice list. I'm so stealing that. Definitely add Cure Light Wounds and Shillelagh to it. My artificer has a carrying capacity issue and so my weapon of choice was the club due to its light weight of 3 lbs. But how I perked up upon reading the Shillelagh spell. :lightbulb :evillaugh
Cifer 02-20-07, 07:52 PM	Definitely add Cure Light Wounds and Shillelagh to it. Cure Light would be IMO too mainstream for this list, whose purpose was to give all the "You cast what? Noone in their right mind has a spell that does that prepared..." spells. Shillelagh is one of those always or never spells: Either you use it all the time (when you are carrying a club/quarterstaff) or you never do (when you don't), but in the latter case, I wouldn't see quite as much use in having it... in a situation when you don't have your regular weapon, you quite probably also lack your arsenal of scrolls and other items.
thebestideaieverhad 02-20-07, 09:56 PM	make 100 spiked chains... if you use the rules literally it only takes about 5 minutes to make each one, 5gp and .2xp... so making 100 is pretty much a cash cow... you just gotta find a venture capitalist who could be convinced that this is "the next big thing"... but hey, that's what sharn is for!
Dragom 02-21-07, 01:57 AM	Cifer, I concure, thebestideaIeverhad, ??? 8 gold, 3 silver, 3 copper, no XP, and 5 days asumming he maxed out his craft (weaponsmith) at 1st level. And a DC:18 check...
scrollreader 02-21-07, 11:39 AM	IIRC, you can get to Lesser Restoration through the Paladin list. It's a good value, and nice to have one or two in the bank for ability damage, etc. Depending on how your DM interprets the artificer's ability to make scrolls, you can also sneak some impressive spells out by using things like blackguard, assassin, and other variant spell lists.
Dragom 02-21-07, 11:46 AM	You have to remember that Paladins are half casters, their lesser restoration is a 25 x level 1 spell x caster 2 = 50gp Scroll. Raising the DC a point, as well as doubling the cost of the scroll. And you need to find a DM that's deaf and blind before you start exploiting PRC spell lists for your artificer.
Merin 02-21-07, 03:24 PM	Skill Enhancement Infusion duration is only 10 min/level. I noticed, that a lot of people suggested it for creating scrolls/items to help on the UMD check. Creating Scrolls/items take 8 hours/day. So, how can this infusion help with creating anything? Or am I missing some sort of errata or ruling? Like, as long as the skill is started during its duration, it applies to that check. I have always wondered why the infusion would not work with Craft skills, since they too take a day for a roll to occur.
Cifer 02-21-07, 06:11 PM	So, how can this infusion help with creating anything? Or am I missing some sort of errata or ruling? Like, as long as the skill is started during its duration, it applies to that check. Major can of worms there... last time it lead to a pretty nasty flamewar. Many people (myself included) think that although making the item takes the whole day, the UMD check is made at a specific point of time, which would suggest that you can enhance this check at exactly this time. To use an analogy: If you were assembling a car (=building an item), there is exactly one time where you put on the wheels (=emulate the neccessary spell) - you are busy the whole day with tasks, but the wheels are installed at a certain point of time, at which you can open a book called "How do I install wheels?" and do it step by step by the book (=benefit from the infusion). I have always wondered why the infusion would not work with Craft skills, since they too take a day for a roll to occur. That is actually the reason why I suggest putting Magecraft on the infusion list. Sorry? The artisan spell is not on the list of the magical artisan? Doesn't really make sense to me.
RogueElement 02-21-07, 08:54 PM	That is actually the reason why I suggest putting Magecraft on the infusion list. Sorry? The artisan spell is not on the list of the magical artisan? Doesn't really make sense to me. I just can't agree with you enough on that, it just blew my mind when I noticed that Magecraft was missing from the Artificer infusion list and none of the errata pages added it.
jonci 02-22-07, 12:06 AM	I recently started an Artificer. The first thing I did was make scrolls. I didn't want my craft reserve to be wasted, and really at level 1 that is what it is for. Since I picked Skill Focus (UMD) and Extraordinary Artisan, it was a little easier and less costly to do it. With my +1 CHA modifier, 4 ranks in UMD, and +3 from Skill Focus, I have +8 UMD modifier. I made 12 attempts and succeeded at 7 of them. May have done better if I had though of using Skill Enhancement. I need to ask my DM about that one. I aimed for effecency, so I made a couple CLW, repair light damage, color spray, couple of shield, and a true strike (for the final boss after I bane my weapon, hehehe). My concept is basically a melee oriented Artificer, so defense and healing were my aims. (Repair light damage because two warforged in the party, too) I may aim for more utility spells later when I have more gold to spend.
Ryoden_Anariavas 02-22-07, 09:42 AM	Major can of worms there... last time it lead to a pretty nasty flamewar. Many people (myself included) think that although making the item takes the whole day, the UMD check is made at a specific point of time, which would suggest that you can enhance this check at exactly this time. To use an analogy: If you were assembling a car (=building an item), there is exactly one time where you put on the wheels (=emulate the neccessary spell) - you are busy the whole day with tasks, but the wheels are installed at a certain point of time, at which you can open a book called "How do I install wheels?" and do it step by step by the book (=benefit from the infusion). I agree with you on this fully, especialy with the "last dich effort" roll That is actually the reason why I suggest putting Magecraft on the infusion list. Sorry? The artisan spell is not on the list of the magical artisan? Doesn't really make sense to me. I am not so sure about this one though. The Infusions are esentialy spells that can only be cast on items and magecraft is cast on yourself if I am not mistaken. Maybe if you modified the infusion to be casts on the tools you are using? though that brings up the question of what tools do you use to create magical items and can they therefore be made masterwork? also remember you are not making a Craft check you are making a UMD check so the spell wouldnt help you anyway.
DMsDelight 02-22-07, 11:00 AM	I don't think it was answered, but someone asked it...I don't think there IS a masterwork tool for Use Magic Device, as no "tools" are involved.
Cifer 02-22-07, 04:51 PM	I am not so sure about this one though. The Infusions are esentialy spells that can only be cast on items and magecraft is cast on yourself if I am not mistaken. Maybe if you modified the infusion to be casts on the tools you are using? You might want to check the spell - its focus is the tool you are using. In that regard, it's not different from e.g. the [animal]'s [quality] line - while an artificer of course infuses a belt to contain bull's strength, the fact remains that the infusion affects the wearer and can be dispelled by aiming a dispel on the wearer. I don't think it was answered, but someone asked it...I don't think there IS a masterwork tool for Use Magic Device, as no "tools" are involved. RAW, there aren't. However, there is precedence for using tools for skills other than crafts, so making up e.g. the Dummy's Guide Of Faking ("How to become an elf capable of casting Longstrider in ten easy steps") isn't too far a stretch, if the DM allows it. also remember you are not making a Craft check you are making a UMD check so the spell wouldnt help you anyway. That was clear - the discussion only referred to the fact that Magecraft definitely should be on the infusion list.
Elderich 02-26-07, 12:02 PM	RAW, there aren't.Yes there are. PHB says one may have a masterwork tool for ANY skill. +2 for the skill. 50 GP Regarding magical item creation. Emulate whatever version of the spell has no material component. Oh, and Identify is on the art list, so never make a scroll of that. And the ECS FAQ has the information of what material components an artificer needs.
ChimericalWolf 02-26-07, 04:20 PM	Yes there are. PHB says one may have a masterwork tool for ANY skill. +2 for the skill. 50 GP Tool, Masterwork: This well-made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items used toward the same skill check do not stack. Note the (if any). This means that it is up to the DM if there is a tool you can make that has UMD, or any skill, as a "related check". On a side note, your post comes across as very harsh in tone. If this is not what you intend, you may wish to use slightly less confrontational language.
cbradshaw007 02-26-07, 08:03 PM	And the ECS FAQ has the information of what material components an artificer needs. Actually Check out the Main 3.5 FAQ that was just released. It states that an artificer ignores all M/DF and F/DF.
Dragom 02-26-07, 09:19 PM	Actually Check out the Main 3.5 FAQ that was just released. It states that an artificer ignores all M/DF and F/DF. For his Infusions, yes. for his crafting, no. Though they really should rethink that one. Lousy sloppy mechanics.
sag3 02-27-07, 04:18 AM	The UMD check to make an item is to emuate a spell being cast. Do NOT forget you can always have someone who can cast the spell rather than making that UMD check. So with a caster friend you can have 100% success rate using your craft reserve for making the scrolls and their spell slot for casting the spell. You can also higher NPCs to cast spells from the PHB for first level spell 10gp X 1 (caster level) making your scroll cost 22.5 GP.
Elderich 02-27-07, 03:45 PM	Actually Check out the Main 3.5 FAQ that was just released. It states that an artificer ignores all M/DF and F/DF.That was noted in this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=708213). You should probably use the rules in the ECS errata.
cbradshaw007 02-28-07, 01:20 PM	So the ECS errata states that an artificer uses arcane focus and arcane material components. The Latest Main FAQ says that an artificer doesn't use divine or arcane focuse or material components. Depending on who you talk to, the book and the errata are the rules. FAQ is an opinion above those rules. I have t say I think the FAQ sounds better not just because I play an artificer, but the ECS errata directly states an artificer is using neither arcane or divine magic. Best way to look at it, show your DM the options and let them decide.
Elderich 02-28-07, 02:01 PM	We need to read this closly. An artificer never requires a divine focus to imbue an item with an infusion. In cases where an infusion duplicates a spell that requires either a material component or a divine focus, or requires either an arcane focus or a divine focus, the artificer uses the arcane material component or arcane focus.So if a spell has a requirement for EITHER a Divine Focus or an Arcane Material Component OR EITHER a Divine Focus or an Arcane Focus THEN, and only then, does the artificers use the Arcane Focus/Material. So no pearl for Identify. It might be easier to read if it was like this An artificer never requires a divine focus to imbue an item with an infusion. In cases where an infusion duplicates a spell that requires either [a material component or a divine focus], or requires either [an arcane focus or a divine focus], the artificer uses the arcane material component or arcane focus.
Nightshade 02-28-07, 02:23 PM	We need to read this closly. So if a spell has a requirement for EITHER a Divine Focus or an Arcane Material Component OR EITHER a Divine Focus or an Arcane Focus THEN, and only then, does the artificers use the Arcane Focus/Material. So no pearl for Identify. It might be easier to read if it was like this An artificer never requires a divine focus to imbue an item with an infusion. In cases where an infusion duplicates a spell that requires either [a material component or a divine focus], or requires either [an arcane focus or a divine focus], the artificer uses the arcane material component or arcane focus. I believe you have read this incorrectly. The way it reads requires Material components. It should read, in cases where an infusion requires a material component or a divine focus, it requires the arcane material component. In cases where it requires either an arcane focus or divine focus, it requires only an arcane focus. It may be arguable, but this is trying to say that Artificers are subject to Arcane material components but not divine foci. And if you read the Infusion, Identify, under the Infusion section, it reads see Identify in the PhB under spells. Another indicator that it is identical to the arcane spell and thus requires the material component listed. This passage is addressing the nomenclature M/DF and F/DF. That is why the sentence reads strangely. It is saying that the arcane material components and arcane foci are required but Divine Foci are not. This is especially true when read in the context of the first sentence: "An artificer never requires a divine focus to imbue an item with an infusion."
Edymnion 02-28-07, 08:04 PM	Um, people, stop and think for a minute. Infusions *MUST* be cast into either an object, or a construct. If they're doing something that requires a focus, then they are infusing the spell into the focus. If they require a material component, they are infusing the spell into the component, which is burned out when the spell is released. The very nature of the Artificer is such that they should use components.
Elderich 03-01-07, 03:38 PM	I believe you have read this incorrectly.I do not understand your post. I think you are reading the 3.5 FAQ. This is a suspect source as it has already been wrong regarding artificers. The thread I linked to pointed out the conflict.
Nightshade 03-01-07, 04:17 PM	I do not understand your post. I think you are reading the 3.5 FAQ. This is a suspect source as it has already been wrong regarding artificers. The thread I linked to pointed out the conflict. No, I am not using the FAQ. I don't use them. They are often wrong. I was just addressing what you said about Identify not needing a Pearl and your reading of that passage. I believe that the passage states the opposite - that Material Arcane Components and arcane material foci are necessary. So: An artificer never requires a divine focus to imbue an item with an infusion. In cases where an infusion duplicates a spell that requires either [a material component or a divine focus], or requires either [an arcane focus or a divine focus], the artificer uses the arcane material component or arcane focus. Ok, by reading the first sentence, we know that the sentence that follows addresses an issue that might come up because of the first sentence. So, we know that divine foci [DF] are out. But what about when it says M/DF and AF/DF in the spell description? Are M out also? Are AF out also? The second sentence in the passage addresses that by saying: No, they are not out. You would use the M listed in the case of M/DF, and the AF listed in the case of AF/DF. So, using your prior formulation of the passage: An artificer never requires a divine focus to imbue an item with an infusion. In cases where an infusion duplicates a spell that requires either [(description 1) a material component or a divine focus], or requires either [(description 2) an arcane focus or a divine focus], the artificer uses the arcane material component (in the case of description 1) or arcane focus (in the case of description 2). It's not a very well crafted sentence and it should have been broken up. But it states that Artificer's are always required to use Material Components and Arcane Foci while stating that Divine Foci are not/never required. The passage itself does not address when the spell description merely states M or AF, leaving out the DF. It is only addressing M/DF and AF/DF. If it states M or AF, then you follow the description of the spell or Infusion.
Elderich 03-02-07, 01:20 PM	This is a bit complicated, so stay with me and call me out if it is unclear. Assume we are trying to say we want to select all spells with "Components: M/DF" We might write, what I will call (S)entence #(1) S1) "In cases where an infusion duplicates a spell that requires either a material component or a divine focus." Does this S1 make it clear we only mean "M/DF?" It might be translated as meaning "Components: M" OR "Components: DF" How would one write a sentence that makes clear we only want "M/DF?" Perhaps "In cases where an infusion duplicates a spell that requires BOTH a material component or a divine focus?" Seems odd no? It is my contention that S1 was meant to mean only "M/DF." I think the FAQ was clarifying that when the ECS says "In cases where an infusion duplicates a spell that requires either a material component or a divine focus, or requires either an arcane focus or a divine focus, the artificer uses the arcane material component or arcane focus," the ECS meant "If and only if a spell has "M/DF" OR "AF/DF" the artificer uses the "M" or "AF" This is why the FAQ changed only the first entry regarding artificers. So I think the FAQ and the ECS actually agree. I thought they contradicted before your post made me look at BOTH the ECS errata and the FAQ again carefully.
androkguz 03-04-07, 09:43 PM	Why are we talking so much about infusions? An artificer doesn't use infusions to emulate spells. And an Artificer must pay material components to create scrolls because that's the rule for creating scrolls. By the way, remember that a 1st level artificer can create scrolls of 2nd level Druid/Cleric/Wizard spells. They would cost 6 or 3 reserve points if I'm not wrong and the DC to create them is only 2 more. A scroll of Spider Clib sounds like fun to me.
Dragom 03-05-07, 01:56 AM	Well the tangent is primarily acceptable as in the case in point we have a 1st level artificer with a total of +4 UMD. Rounds out to a 64% failure chance with crafting 1st level scrolls and a 81% failure chance with second level scrolls. At second level it Will make sense for him to make 1st level scrolls as they will be cheaper then buying them. (42% with synergy from spellcraft) But not potions though. Even at third his chance of failing a 1st level potion will be 49% and perhaps not the best use of a full day of down time. (Half the price + 1 day + fail half the time = paying full price and wasting a day) 1st level potions and second level scrolls are best left till 4th when he has a 42% failure rate on both. All in all I do agree that Skill Focus (UMD) or even a +2 mod in charisma stop being relevent when you hit 13th level, they are kind of important if you want to craft in the first few levels without spending action points. As such the question is answered. In this case not all that much. (I did a bunch of tables in microsoft works, but don't know how to put them up...)
sag3 03-06-07, 06:34 AM	Dont forget to hire an NPC to cast the spell you need to create the item. Then you meet all the pre requisits for crafting said item. For 10 GP you can have an NPC cast a first level spell as per PHB. When scribing a scroll the saving is hardly worth it making scroll costs 12.5 gp + casting spell of 10 Gp = 22.5 saving of 2.5 GP for a days work. Not all that great but it does spend the craft reserve and over your gold at first level this can add up. How ever brewing a potion: 25gp + 10 Gp = 35 GP 100% success rate because your not making UMD checks to emulate the spell. Saving 15 GP for a days work. Also a first level artificer can scribe a second level spell at a first level caster. For a total of 75 (components) + spell caster hireling 60 (second level spell) coming out with a saving of 15 Gp over buying it (not that you can probably get one to buy). With no UMD check and 100% success.
ChimericalWolf 03-06-07, 07:01 AM	And that's if you pay an NPC. A little down-time with your caster-buddy in the party makes things cheap and 100%.
Elderich 03-06-07, 01:48 PM	Um, people, stop and think for a minute. Infusions *MUST* be cast into either an object, or a construct. If they're doing something that requires a focus, then they are infusing the spell into the focus. If they require a material component, they are infusing the spell into the component, which is burned out when the spell is released. The very nature of the Artificer is such that they should use components.I would point out that this is not always true. Artificers can cast "natural weapon augmentation". The target is a creature IICR.
Dragom 03-06-07, 08:28 PM	I would point out that this is not always true. Artificers can cast "natural weapon augmentation". The target is a creature IICR. The target in the spell description may be the creature, and it might be the creature if it is a construct, But in general the target is first a collar or handkerchief then the creature in question.
Elderich 03-07-07, 01:28 PM	"in general" is not "MUST"
ChimericalWolf 03-07-07, 02:05 PM	I would point out that this is not always true. Artificers can cast "natural weapon augmentation". The target is a creature IICR. According to the book, it is always true. The Natural Weapon Augmentation would always be infused on either a Construct or item.
Dragom 03-07-07, 08:29 PM	Anyway, Wizards seam either confused or confusing on this topic. The weapon augmentation Infusions have material components (some costly) despite being infusions and only apearing on the Artificers list. (ECS 117) And use of any material components (or at least the payment of) and/or presence of focuses are required to craft items. (DMG 283) I'm prepared to ignore the Faq and the Errata until they stop talking crazy. If you can convince your DM otherwise, go for it.
Elderich 03-09-07, 02:05 PM	According to the book, it is always true. The Natural Weapon Augmentation would always be infused on either a Construct or item.Have you actually read the infusion?
Cifer 03-09-07, 03:27 PM	Have you actually read the infusion? I did just now, and it doesn't say anything to the contrary, meaning that you would infuse the spices and ointments and then sprinkle them over the talon in question.
Elderich 03-09-07, 07:01 PM	I did just now, and it doesn't say anything to the contrary, meaning that you would infuse the spices and ointments and then sprinkle them over the talon in question.so could an unwilling recipient scrape it off?
RogueElement 03-09-07, 11:28 PM	I would think that the infusion effect would have already taken effect, like a poison. Just a guess though.
Elderich 03-13-07, 05:00 PM	I would think that the infusion effect would have already taken effect, like a poison. Just a guess though.so the infusion effect does not STAY in the infused ointment? If I infuse a belt with "Bull's Strength, and the effected takes it off they loose it, correct? Does this also apply to the ointment?
Dragom 03-13-07, 08:23 PM	You ask an excellent question. If you cast bull strength on a belt a person is wearing, and the person removes the belt, does he loose the benefit of the infusion? But the description of the Infusion ability is making temporary magic items. There for the Oil can be washed away, the belt removed and the effect nullified. Thogh washing away oil is kind of tricky without soap.
RogueElement 03-13-07, 08:30 PM	It's more of a Natural Weapon Augmentation Leave-In Conditioner.
Cifer 03-13-07, 08:33 PM	If I infuse a belt with "Bull's Strength, and the effected takes it off they loose it, correct? Does this also apply to the ointment? Incorrect. The "targets items and constructs" is fluff - ruleswise, the infusion is still applied to a person, which is why it can't be negated by taking off the item, why it can't be applied to an item which is then handed around so everyone has their two minutes of bull's strength and why it can be dispelled as a normal spell cast on a person and not suppressed like a regular magic item. Thus, the interpretation IMO most consistent with both rules and fluff would be that one infuses the item, which then transfers over to the person using it, making the item irrelevant thereafter.
Elderich 03-14-07, 03:57 PM	Incorrect. The "targets items and constructs" is fluff - ruleswise, the infusion is still applied to a person, which is why it can't be negated by taking off the item, why it can't be applied to an item which is then handed around so everyone has their two minutes of bull's strength and why it can be dispelled as a normal spell cast on a person and not suppressed like a regular magic item. Thus, the interpretation IMO most consistent with both rules and fluff would be that one infuses the item, which then transfers over to the person using it, making the item irrelevant thereafter.what text backs up this interpretation?
Dragom 03-14-07, 05:53 PM	This is D&D, there is no text backing up any real spell mechanics.
Cifer 03-14-07, 11:49 PM	what text backs up this interpretation? It's backed up by the fact that the artificer infusions work just as the equivalent spells do - same casting time, same range, same target. Ruleswise, a bull's strength cannot target a belt, but has to be cast/infused on a creature.
Elderich 03-15-07, 02:17 PM	It's backed up by the fact that the artificer infusions work just as the equivalent spells do - same casting time, same range, same target. Ruleswise, a bull's strength cannot target a belt, but has to be cast/infused on a creature.Except the class "infusion" casting ability explicitly says it must effect an object, no? An artificer’s infusions can only be imbued into an item or a construct (including warforged). He can not, for example, simply imbue an ally with bull’s strength. He must instead imbue that ability into an item his ally is wearing. The item then functions as a belt of giant strength for the duration of the infusion. He can, however, imbue bull’s strength directly on a construct or a character with the living construct subtype, and infusions such as repair light damage and iron construct function only when imbued on such characters.So I think you need more support for your suggestion?
Hopeless 03-15-07, 05:46 PM	Does anyone have good ideas for using up the Artificer's 1st level Craft Reserve? It's not a big deal but I'd hate to let the 20 xp go to waste. All I can think of doing is making 20 Identify scrolls, but I'm not sure I'll have 250 gp at the end of 1st level. If the rest of the party does not have UMD, is there anything you can make for your party? Check out the craft rules in the unearthed arcana where the reserve not only can be used to replace xp but also the monetary side. It does give a limit of half the price though but my thought is that you give a player the option of using the reserve to allow them to select any 10 1st level spells as scroll-like items with the remaining 10 craft points removing the cost in gold of making them BUT only at FIRST level since by the time they would normally have the money to use those points they're already at 2nd level. Check out page 138 in the Complete Arcane for alternative scrolls such as gemstones, incendiaries and macrame (using weaves of complex knots) and for potions using food, tiles, wafers and even skulls for potions. I see artificer's as technologists whose skill in this area allows them to use any item as Use Magic Device is their forte however their true capability is that they can make items that simulate magic in that it can be compared to as such BUT just as artificer's need to make Use Magic Device to use items made by other classes so do they need to make such a check to use any item made by an artificer. Weapons, armour and the like can be used by anyone who know what it can do HOWEVER as for artificer's using their own constructions I believe they don't need to make Use Magic Device on their own stuff however how you view this is how it will develop. Let us know what you think and especially how you reolve this particular query. Cheers and take care!
Hopeless 03-15-07, 05:50 PM	Except the class "infusion" casting ability explicitly says it must effect an object, no? So I think you need more support for your suggestion? I assumed the question was about Craft Reserve and not Infusions which is the artificer's way of casting spells. I consider it simply a generic method of developing their skills with extra infusions available as they get more experienced however there's nothing to say a dm allows one of those scrolls be one that holds a new infusion though although i doubt they would be that willing to use a new infusion before adding it to their reportoire... Kind of reminds me of my halfling sorceror having developed it as a multiclass character even giving a reason why she had to multiclass and gave a way out if problems arose (and it did when the character was the only arcane spellcaster!) and then was told she had to buy scrolls to learn new spells!
Kensan_Oni 03-15-07, 05:57 PM	This was my character from the 1st level character creation contest this year. This is what he spent his initial money on. He started off with a couple of scrolls, which I think were a neat selection of choices to make. Junkheap (Alignment: NG) 1st Lvl Warforged Artificer STR 10 BAB +0 Melee +0 Ranged +1 DEX 13 HP's 6 CON 10 Saves: Fort +2 Reflex +1 Will +2 INT 14 Action Points 5 WIS 10 Craft Points 15 CHR 14 AC 19 (10+8+1) Class Abilities: Artificer Knowledge, Artisian Bonus, Disable Traps, Item Creation, Scribe Scroll Skills: Use Magic Device 4+2+(2)=6(8) Search 4+2+0=6 Disable Device 4+1+0=5 Appraise 4+2+0=6 Open Locks 4+1+0=5 Knowledge Arcana 4+2+0=6 Feat: Adamantine Body Languages: Common Equipment: Scroll of Expeditious Retreat, Scroll of Obscuring Mist, Scroll of Tenser's Floating Disk, Scroll of Alarm, Theives'Tools, Light Crossbow, 20 Bolts, Backpack, Bullseye Lantern, 1 flask of Oil Infusions 3/0/0/0/0/0 Money: 4 gps 9 sps