vampire mind-flayer [Archive] - Wizards Community

vampire mind-flayer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
heirodule
02-01-08, 02:41 PM Should a vampire mind flayer have DR silver AND byeshk, or silver OR byesk? Or two different DRs? (so a merely magical iron weapon has 15 taken off, and a silver one has 5 and byeshk has 10)
Nundahl
02-01-08, 04:00 PM Well, technically adding a Byeshk DR would be a houserule to begin with, not all Aberrations in Eberron have it, that said, its not a bad rule, I myself use it.

Now, DR does not stack, you use your best DR for a given scenario, if bypassed it falls to the next down the line. For example, DR 10/Silver or DR 5/Byeshk if I used a Byeshk weapon he'd user his DR 10/Silver, should I switch to silver he'd have his DR 5/Byeshk. If I'm using neither, he only gets his best, which is DR 10/Silver. This is true for any combination of DR's. Always assume the best one is in play that is not bypassed by the damage type. All others are backup.
naturax
02-01-08, 05:09 PM Well, technically adding a Byeshk DR would be a houserule to begin with, not all Aberrations in Eberron have it, that said, its not a bad rule, I myself use it.

In the back of the ECS it says you should change all the DR of aberrations to byeshk in Eberron, so it isn't a house rule.
Nundahl
02-01-08, 05:20 PM In the back of the ECS it says you should change all the DR of aberrations to byeshk in Eberron, so it isn't a house rule.

!

My apologies. The rest still stands.
Kreistor2
02-01-08, 06:32 PM Vampires retain all the special qualities of the base creature, so a vampire mind-flayer should retain both DR's; however...

The Vampire template is technnically only allowed to be applied to a humanoid or monstrous humanoid, and few of those have metallic DR. The base vampire would never (or at least very rarely) have two metallic DR's.

DR 10/silver and 10/byeshk becomes 10/-, since it is impossible to have two metal qualities on the same weapon. When sanity checking your encounter, you must keep that in mind. DR is a problem that can be overcome, if the party is smart enough to prepare for it, and so it is normally just a delay tactic for the monster, but with two metallics, it can never be overcome (since all the methods I know that add metal qualities actually replace previous metal qualities, so they don't stack). An unavoidable DR coupled with Fast Healing, immunity to crits, SR, immunity or resistance to many energy types, and the temp HP from applying negative levels via slam attacks (10THP/slam) can create an unstoppable monster for many parties of a technically capable EL. Remember that the EL-CR guidelines are just guidelines, and just because a particular monster has a CR equal to your party's EL, that doesn't mean it is automatically an appropriate fight for your party. Check the monster AC vs. meleer/ranged attack rolls, subtract the DR from their average damage, and determine if their average damage/round is high enough vs. Fast Healing to kill the vampire in a reasonable number of rounds.

And dont' forget that a PC that takes negative levels equal to their level dies immediately. A L5 PC will die in three slams from a vampire (2 -ve levels/slam), so the party has to be able to kill the vampire in a few rounds, or PC's will start dying.
vegetalss4
02-09-08, 02:08 PM DR 10/silver and 10/byeshk becomes 10/-, since it is impossible to have two metal qualities on the same weapon.
actuly not there are a few ways to gain two matel qualities on one attack, you could as an exsample use a shadow striking weapon from tome of magic an there are two feats in races of eberron that when used togetther will make an warforged's slam attack count as both cold iron and silver
Ohtar Turinson
02-11-08, 10:41 AM Vampires retain all the special qualities of the base creature, so a vampire mind-flayer should retain both DR's; however...

The Vampire template is technnically only allowed to be applied to a humanoid or monstrous humanoid, and few of those have metallic DR. The base vampire would never (or at least very rarely) have two metallic DR's.

There's a specific creature for a vampiric illithid, in Lords of Madness p. 160. It's not the normal templated approach, since they don't function the same way that most of the vampires do- the description points out that they are more like wights than normal vampires.

Anyway, I would argue that they don't have both DR 10/magic&silver and DR 5/byeshk (I just checked the ECS, and it isn't DR 10/Byeshk). Since a vampiric illithid is something very specific and (presumably) has to be made specially post-mortem, I would give it DR 10/magic&silver if it was animated by normal necromanctic energy- dying in a manifest zone to Mabar, strange experiments by the Emerald Claw, whatever.

If it was intentionally made by the Daelkyr mucking with things, then I would make Byeshk replace silver maybe.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
heirodule 02-01-08, 02:41 PM	Should a vampire mind flayer have DR silver AND byeshk, or silver OR byesk? Or two different DRs? (so a merely magical iron weapon has 15 taken off, and a silver one has 5 and byeshk has 10)
Nundahl 02-01-08, 04:00 PM	Well, technically adding a Byeshk DR would be a houserule to begin with, not all Aberrations in Eberron have it, that said, its not a bad rule, I myself use it. Now, DR does not stack, you use your best DR for a given scenario, if bypassed it falls to the next down the line. For example, DR 10/Silver or DR 5/Byeshk if I used a Byeshk weapon he'd user his DR 10/Silver, should I switch to silver he'd have his DR 5/Byeshk. If I'm using neither, he only gets his best, which is DR 10/Silver. This is true for any combination of DR's. Always assume the best one is in play that is not bypassed by the damage type. All others are backup.
naturax 02-01-08, 05:09 PM	Well, technically adding a Byeshk DR would be a houserule to begin with, not all Aberrations in Eberron have it, that said, its not a bad rule, I myself use it. In the back of the ECS it says you should change all the DR of aberrations to byeshk in Eberron, so it isn't a house rule.
Nundahl 02-01-08, 05:20 PM	In the back of the ECS it says you should change all the DR of aberrations to byeshk in Eberron, so it isn't a house rule. ! My apologies. The rest still stands.
Kreistor2 02-01-08, 06:32 PM	Vampires retain all the special qualities of the base creature, so a vampire mind-flayer should retain both DR's; however... The Vampire template is technnically only allowed to be applied to a humanoid or monstrous humanoid, and few of those have metallic DR. The base vampire would never (or at least very rarely) have two metallic DR's. DR 10/silver and 10/byeshk becomes 10/-, since it is impossible to have two metal qualities on the same weapon. When sanity checking your encounter, you must keep that in mind. DR is a problem that can be overcome, if the party is smart enough to prepare for it, and so it is normally just a delay tactic for the monster, but with two metallics, it can never be overcome (since all the methods I know that add metal qualities actually replace previous metal qualities, so they don't stack). An unavoidable DR coupled with Fast Healing, immunity to crits, SR, immunity or resistance to many energy types, and the temp HP from applying negative levels via slam attacks (10THP/slam) can create an unstoppable monster for many parties of a technically capable EL. Remember that the EL-CR guidelines are just guidelines, and just because a particular monster has a CR equal to your party's EL, that doesn't mean it is automatically an appropriate fight for your party. Check the monster AC vs. meleer/ranged attack rolls, subtract the DR from their average damage, and determine if their average damage/round is high enough vs. Fast Healing to kill the vampire in a reasonable number of rounds. And dont' forget that a PC that takes negative levels equal to their level dies immediately. A L5 PC will die in three slams from a vampire (2 -ve levels/slam), so the party has to be able to kill the vampire in a few rounds, or PC's will start dying.
vegetalss4 02-09-08, 02:08 PM	DR 10/silver and 10/byeshk becomes 10/-, since it is impossible to have two metal qualities on the same weapon. actuly not there are a few ways to gain two matel qualities on one attack, you could as an exsample use a shadow striking weapon from tome of magic an there are two feats in races of eberron that when used togetther will make an warforged's slam attack count as both cold iron and silver
Ohtar Turinson 02-11-08, 10:41 AM	Vampires retain all the special qualities of the base creature, so a vampire mind-flayer should retain both DR's; however... The Vampire template is technnically only allowed to be applied to a humanoid or monstrous humanoid, and few of those have metallic DR. The base vampire would never (or at least very rarely) have two metallic DR's. There's a specific creature for a vampiric illithid, in Lords of Madness p. 160. It's not the normal templated approach, since they don't function the same way that most of the vampires do- the description points out that they are more like wights than normal vampires. Anyway, I would argue that they don't have both DR 10/magic&silver and DR 5/byeshk (I just checked the ECS, and it isn't DR 10/Byeshk). Since a vampiric illithid is something very specific and (presumably) has to be made specially post-mortem, I would give it DR 10/magic&silver if it was animated by normal necromanctic energy- dying in a manifest zone to Mabar, strange experiments by the Emerald Claw, whatever. If it was intentionally made by the Daelkyr mucking with things, then I would make Byeshk replace silver maybe.