Wand creation costs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Wand creation costs [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AwkwardMap
03-29-07, 04:48 PM Listed under Creating Magic Items in the SRD and in the DMG under Summary of Magic Item Creation Costs the "base price" for wands is listed at 375 x spell level x caster level. What I'm wondering is why I always see base price ("market price") wands priced at 750 x spell level x caster level.

Is it due to some sort of misprint? Am I not understanding magical item creation?

You pay 1/2 the base price in gp, 1/25 the base price in xp, and it takes the base price 1/1000 to determine the amount of days it takes to craft a magical item, right?

An interesting side note to this: d20srd.org lists base price for wands at 750 x spell level x caster level. :confused:

Oh... this is listed here because I'm going to be playing an artificer.
Cifer
03-29-07, 05:33 PM Well, you've already found out:
There's the market or base price, which is 750*etc, which is what you have to pay for the wand if you buy it. And then there's the price for its creation, which is 750*etc/2=375*etc.
AwkwardMap
03-29-07, 05:45 PM I should have been more specific. I always see 750 x spell level x caster level posted on forums as the base price of wands, not the DMG, nor the SRD. That was my point.

What am I missing, here?
Cifer
03-29-07, 06:51 PM To quote the Artificer's Guide:
The proper formula for calculating the values are:

750 x Caster Level x Effective Spell Level (including any built in metamagic levels!) = Base/Market Price.

1/2 of Base/Market Price is YOUR COST.
1/25 of Base Market Price is YOUR XP COST. Yes, that 200k Item really does take 8000 xp to make!
1/1000 is the TIME IN DAYS to make the item. Yes, a 200K item does take 7 months!

Also, you can simply look into the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wands.htm) - look up the pricing of a wand of magic missile at level 1. It's 750 gp. Of course the section on creating magic items gives you 350 gp, as the money you have to spend to make one.
AwkwardMap
03-29-07, 10:53 PM From what I've read, though, it seems that 375 x sp level x cl is the correct formula. I realize this means that wands are not made at 1/2 price, but instead 1/4 price of what they're sold for.

Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp and 1/25 of the base price in XP. For many items, the market price equals the base price.

And then, we look under wands and see this entry:
Base Price
375 x level of spell x level of caster

This of course leads me to think: well... if wands' base price is "375 x level of spell x level of caster" then you would take half again of that to determine your cost. This I believe is evidenced by the column one previous to the Base Price.

Magical Supplies Cost
1/2 x 375 x level of spell x level of caster

This in my book seems to imply that is the actual cost to the creator of the item. The final nail in the coffin, though, for me is the note next to the Base Price column heading. If we look to the bottom of the table we see this printed there:

4 A character creating an item pays 1/25 the base price in experience points.

At this point they're telling you to take 1/25 of the Base Price as listed. Which equates Base Price to market price, since you're taking 1/25 of it to derive your exp cost.

This is all leading to my point: I think wand creation cost is 375 x spell level x caster level. Cost is 1/2 of that, exp 1/25th, and days to craft 1/1000th as normal.
AwkwardMap
03-30-07, 03:33 PM :bump:
Cifer
03-30-07, 10:04 PM What are you bumping for? I've given you evidence of what standard wands cost, you chose to ignore it in favor of other information (which I'd personally call a typo). There won't be much more coming out of this thread, except maybe a link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) to the SRD, which again supports my numbers.
AwkwardMap
03-30-07, 10:22 PM I was looking for something a little more official?

What you have chosen to cite is not the SRD, in fact. Listed under the SRD we have what wand creation is cited to be: check the actual SRD hosted on the Wizards site (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35).

While I do like d20srd.org, to my knowledge it is still not considered to replace the rules as they are presented in the DMG and SRD. It is for this reason that I ask.

If you could provide some official information regarding this, I'd be appreciative.
Cifer
03-30-07, 11:31 PM The problem is that the rules in the DMG and the SRD given by you are internally inconsistent: It gives the base price as 375*CL*spell level, but breaks this rule with the pricings given for the example wands (as I said, 750 for level 1 magic missile).

My personal suspicion is that the pricings initially were written as in the d20srd, but then someone looked into the example wand table, found some 375 gp wands and mistook them for first level ones, upon which he changed the "mistaken" creation table.
AwkwardMap
03-31-07, 12:24 AM I noted that you would be making wands at 1/4 of their "market" price in the first post I made. I realize this.

The point is this: under the wand creation table the costs are what they are. You are unable to cite sources to dispute this (perhaps except the section under creating Wondrous Items that tells you that wondrous items are 750 x level of spell x level of caster for a 50 charge, spell trigger item, though really shouldn't wand creation costs override that?).

Any other ideas as to why this is?

After looking over the section further, it's most likely a problem with the table. I sent an email off to CustServ.
goblin_pride
03-31-07, 06:34 PM The point is this: under the wand creation table the costs are what they are. You are unable to cite sources to dispute this (perhaps except the section under creating Wondrous Items that tells you that wondrous items are 750 x level of spell x level of caster for a 50 charge, spell trigger item, though really shouldn't wand creation costs override that?).

That price on table 7-33 is for charged items that aren't wands. Wands are inherently cheaper to make, that's why wands have their own pricing scheme laid out elsewhere. A pair of workgloves with a Magecraft spell that has 50 charges would use table 7-33 prices, but a wand of Magecraft would use the wand price for a first level spell and therefore cost half as much to make.

It's understandable though that wonderous items would cost more, they're the stepping stone to creating wands in the evolution of magic items and therefore part of the learning process towards achieving the optimal storage abilities of a magic wand.
AwkwardMap
04-01-07, 05:37 PM The email I sent and the reply:

Customer (xxx xxx) 03/30/2007 09:16 PM
Listed under the SRD and DMG, I see the base price listed for wands to be 375 x level of spell x level of caster. The column to the left is "magical supplies cost", and is valued at 1/2 x 375 x level of spell x level of caster. I assume this is the cost to make the item, since this would hold true for creating magical arms and armor (1/2 base price = cost = magical supplies cost?). The note next to the column heading for base price indicates that you take 1/25th of that price to determine the experience cost.

I realize that this allows a wand maker to craft his wands at 1/4 market price, which in this case would mean that base price is not equal to market price.

Most assert that the base price of wands is 750 x level of spell x level of caster. However, looking at the table presented in the SRD and the DMG I'm lead to believe that this is not the case. That, in fact, the base price of wands is 375 x level of spell x level of caster.

My question is: is this correct? If not, please cite reasons why it is not.

Subject
Wand creation pricing discrepancies

Discussion Thread
Response (Support Agent) 04/01/2007 08:42 AM
xxxx,

Thank you for writing. Magic item creation can be tricky. While basic information and guidelines are given for crafting magic items at the end of Chapter 7 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide, the complexities of the craft are left largely unexplained. These guidelines for magic item creation are a good place to start, though there just aren’t rules for every possible permutation that can be thought up.

If you have an idea for a new magic item, you should discuss the matter with your Dungeon Master and work out the details. The Dungeon Master of your campaign is responsible for deciding if any given magic item is to be allowed in his/her game, as well as how best to apply the guidelines given in that section of the book. Keep in mind that these are not hard rules. The Dungeon Master understands their campaign better than anyone else and has the final say on which items should be allowed within the scope of their game.

Good Gaming!

Rob
Customer Service Representative
Wizards of the Coast
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST

Not much help in figuring out which is correct, eh?
Cifer
04-01-07, 05:55 PM Not much help in figuring out which is correct, eh?
Well, it nicely cements my opinion of customer service...
goblin_pride
04-01-07, 06:43 PM Well, it nicely cements my opinion of customer service...

That was a very deft handling of your thoughts, Cifer.
AwkwardMap
04-01-07, 07:19 PM So, what am I left to wonder?

Well, CustServ sort of dodged my question entirely. All I can do is imagine that wand creation costs are as they were intended, since they didn't tell me I was wrong. Or hey, maybe it's a case of "Hey, we got another question regarding magic item creation" "Send 'em the stock answer, the one that doesn't really say anything."

Hm. 375 x spell level x caster level for base price, I guess?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AwkwardMap 03-29-07, 04:48 PM	Listed under Creating Magic Items in the SRD and in the DMG under Summary of Magic Item Creation Costs the "base price" for wands is listed at 375 x spell level x caster level. What I'm wondering is why I always see base price ("market price") wands priced at 750 x spell level x caster level. Is it due to some sort of misprint? Am I not understanding magical item creation? You pay 1/2 the base price in gp, 1/25 the base price in xp, and it takes the base price 1/1000 to determine the amount of days it takes to craft a magical item, right? An interesting side note to this: d20srd.org lists base price for wands at 750 x spell level x caster level. :confused: Oh... this is listed here because I'm going to be playing an artificer.
Cifer 03-29-07, 05:33 PM	Well, you've already found out: There's the market or base price, which is 750etc, which is what you have to pay for the wand if you buy it. And then there's the price for its creation, which is 750etc/2=375*etc.
AwkwardMap 03-29-07, 05:45 PM	I should have been more specific. I always see 750 x spell level x caster level posted on forums as the base price of wands, not the DMG, nor the SRD. That was my point. What am I missing, here?
Cifer 03-29-07, 06:51 PM	To quote the Artificer's Guide: The proper formula for calculating the values are: 750 x Caster Level x Effective Spell Level (including any built in metamagic levels!) = Base/Market Price. 1/2 of Base/Market Price is YOUR COST. 1/25 of Base Market Price is YOUR XP COST. Yes, that 200k Item really does take 8000 xp to make! 1/1000 is the TIME IN DAYS to make the item. Yes, a 200K item does take 7 months! Also, you can simply look into the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wands.htm) - look up the pricing of a wand of magic missile at level 1. It's 750 gp. Of course the section on creating magic items gives you 350 gp, as the money you have to spend to make one.
AwkwardMap 03-29-07, 10:53 PM	From what I've read, though, it seems that 375 x sp level x cl is the correct formula. I realize this means that wands are not made at 1/2 price, but instead 1/4 price of what they're sold for. Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp and 1/25 of the base price in XP. For many items, the market price equals the base price. And then, we look under wands and see this entry: Base Price 375 x level of spell x level of caster This of course leads me to think: well... if wands' base price is "375 x level of spell x level of caster" then you would take half again of that to determine your cost. This I believe is evidenced by the column one previous to the Base Price. Magical Supplies Cost 1/2 x 375 x level of spell x level of caster This in my book seems to imply that is the actual cost to the creator of the item. The final nail in the coffin, though, for me is the note next to the Base Price column heading. If we look to the bottom of the table we see this printed there: 4 A character creating an item pays 1/25 the base price in experience points. At this point they're telling you to take 1/25 of the Base Price as listed. Which equates Base Price to market price, since you're taking 1/25 of it to derive your exp cost. This is all leading to my point: I think wand creation cost is 375 x spell level x caster level. Cost is 1/2 of that, exp 1/25th, and days to craft 1/1000th as normal.
AwkwardMap 03-30-07, 03:33 PM	:bump:
Cifer 03-30-07, 10:04 PM	What are you bumping for? I've given you evidence of what standard wands cost, you chose to ignore it in favor of other information (which I'd personally call a typo). There won't be much more coming out of this thread, except maybe a link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) to the SRD, which again supports my numbers.
AwkwardMap 03-30-07, 10:22 PM	I was looking for something a little more official? What you have chosen to cite is not the SRD, in fact. Listed under the SRD we have what wand creation is cited to be: check the actual SRD hosted on the Wizards site (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35). While I do like d20srd.org, to my knowledge it is still not considered to replace the rules as they are presented in the DMG and SRD. It is for this reason that I ask. If you could provide some official information regarding this, I'd be appreciative.
Cifer 03-30-07, 11:31 PM	The problem is that the rules in the DMG and the SRD given by you are internally inconsistent: It gives the base price as 375CLspell level, but breaks this rule with the pricings given for the example wands (as I said, 750 for level 1 magic missile). My personal suspicion is that the pricings initially were written as in the d20srd, but then someone looked into the example wand table, found some 375 gp wands and mistook them for first level ones, upon which he changed the "mistaken" creation table.
AwkwardMap 03-31-07, 12:24 AM	I noted that you would be making wands at 1/4 of their "market" price in the first post I made. I realize this. The point is this: under the wand creation table the costs are what they are. You are unable to cite sources to dispute this (perhaps except the section under creating Wondrous Items that tells you that wondrous items are 750 x level of spell x level of caster for a 50 charge, spell trigger item, though really shouldn't wand creation costs override that?). Any other ideas as to why this is? After looking over the section further, it's most likely a problem with the table. I sent an email off to CustServ.
goblin_pride 03-31-07, 06:34 PM	The point is this: under the wand creation table the costs are what they are. You are unable to cite sources to dispute this (perhaps except the section under creating Wondrous Items that tells you that wondrous items are 750 x level of spell x level of caster for a 50 charge, spell trigger item, though really shouldn't wand creation costs override that?). That price on table 7-33 is for charged items that aren't wands. Wands are inherently cheaper to make, that's why wands have their own pricing scheme laid out elsewhere. A pair of workgloves with a Magecraft spell that has 50 charges would use table 7-33 prices, but a wand of Magecraft would use the wand price for a first level spell and therefore cost half as much to make. It's understandable though that wonderous items would cost more, they're the stepping stone to creating wands in the evolution of magic items and therefore part of the learning process towards achieving the optimal storage abilities of a magic wand.
AwkwardMap 04-01-07, 05:37 PM	The email I sent and the reply: Customer (xxx xxx) 03/30/2007 09:16 PM Listed under the SRD and DMG, I see the base price listed for wands to be 375 x level of spell x level of caster. The column to the left is "magical supplies cost", and is valued at 1/2 x 375 x level of spell x level of caster. I assume this is the cost to make the item, since this would hold true for creating magical arms and armor (1/2 base price = cost = magical supplies cost?). The note next to the column heading for base price indicates that you take 1/25th of that price to determine the experience cost. I realize that this allows a wand maker to craft his wands at 1/4 market price, which in this case would mean that base price is not equal to market price. Most assert that the base price of wands is 750 x level of spell x level of caster. However, looking at the table presented in the SRD and the DMG I'm lead to believe that this is not the case. That, in fact, the base price of wands is 375 x level of spell x level of caster. My question is: is this correct? If not, please cite reasons why it is not. Subject Wand creation pricing discrepancies Discussion Thread Response (Support Agent) 04/01/2007 08:42 AM xxxx, Thank you for writing. Magic item creation can be tricky. While basic information and guidelines are given for crafting magic items at the end of Chapter 7 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide, the complexities of the craft are left largely unexplained. These guidelines for magic item creation are a good place to start, though there just aren’t rules for every possible permutation that can be thought up. If you have an idea for a new magic item, you should discuss the matter with your Dungeon Master and work out the details. The Dungeon Master of your campaign is responsible for deciding if any given magic item is to be allowed in his/her game, as well as how best to apply the guidelines given in that section of the book. Keep in mind that these are not hard rules. The Dungeon Master understands their campaign better than anyone else and has the final say on which items should be allowed within the scope of their game. Good Gaming! Rob Customer Service Representative Wizards of the Coast 1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada) 425-204-8069 (From all other countries) Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST Not much help in figuring out which is correct, eh?
Cifer 04-01-07, 05:55 PM	Not much help in figuring out which is correct, eh? Well, it nicely cements my opinion of customer service...
goblin_pride 04-01-07, 06:43 PM	Well, it nicely cements my opinion of customer service... That was a very deft handling of your thoughts, Cifer.
AwkwardMap 04-01-07, 07:19 PM	So, what am I left to wonder? Well, CustServ sort of dodged my question entirely. All I can do is imagine that wand creation costs are as they were intended, since they didn't tell me I was wrong. Or hey, maybe it's a case of "Hey, we got another question regarding magic item creation" "Send 'em the stock answer, the one that doesn't really say anything." Hm. 375 x spell level x caster level for base price, I guess?