Warforged & Psionic Healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warforged & Psionic Healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aidan Milvus
09-05-07, 02:29 PM Ok, I know there's Psionic Repair Damage for healing constructs, but I was wondering how other psionic healing works with Warforged. We just started a campaign, it's not eberron, but the dm is using warforged, so I figured this question would best be asked here.

I'm playing an ardent with the life Mantle. I have Touch of Healing, a 1st lvl Psychometabolism (healing) power that uses positive energy to heal 2 hp's per level and powerpoint used. Now, we're also using the psionics are different (if that makes any difference to your opinions) and we know that arcane repair spells work normally, while divine cure spells only heal half as much. The warforged specifies that spells of the healing subschool only work half as well for warforged. Should this apply to the healing subdiscipline as well?

I'm on the fence with this one. on the one hand, while it does use positive energy, which to me says its just like a cure spell, and it is of the healing Sub-whatever (discipline in this case, while cure is school) that makes me think that it should apply to the halving.

But since "psionics are different" and it is technically not of the healing sub"school" this is specified, it makes me think that the power might not be halved.

Our dm already ruled that that particular power will be halved as well, but I'm curious as to what you guys think.
Anguish2
09-08-07, 02:47 PM Tricky, but I'd agree with the DM. I think the intention of the healing rules for warforged are to underscore and illustrate that warforged are different. They're just not made of the same stuff that elves and orcs are. While some things like a dragon shaman's healing aura (grants fast healing) should work properly on warforged (despite what the sage says), those are for specific reasons.

I think it's fairly clear the intent is that any spell/power that is explicitly (healing) works at half efficacy. There isn't conjuration(healing) when talking about psionics, and what the ardent has is the equivalent.
TiwazTyrsfist
09-08-07, 05:15 PM So, my personal feeling is that ANY HP restorative power (Other than Repair spells) should work at half power on warforged.

However, based on the rulings on A> Goodberry, and B> Crusader powers from ToB, I would say that the general consensus is that RAW psionic healing works fully, since it's not a spell like ability that cures HP, or a spell from the Conjuration(Healing) sub-school.
Alex_
09-08-07, 07:31 PM RAW, no Psionics cannot heal them for full HP.

The ECS says, "...supernatural abilities that cure hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect to a warforged." Psionic powers are supernatural, and as such, would heal for half value just like healing magic, or most any non-mundane form of healing (pact magic, shadow magic, etc) unlike otherwise noted like the Paladin's Lay on Hands ability.

Considering how involved Psionics were in the Eberron setting from the beginning, I doubt there was an accidental oversight regarding how their powers would interact with Eberron's new races (one of which is naturally Psionic).
LoneStranger
09-09-07, 02:33 AM Yeah I am inclined to agree that psi healing is only half as effective as well.

It's effectively the same type of energy as healing spells just applied in a different way, so it would still not affect the rock part of the body.

Ah well, there are always repair spells and abilities to fall back on.
TiwazTyrsfist
09-09-07, 06:24 AM Ah, right. Supernatural, not spell-like. This is what happens when I don't get the book to check. What Alex said.
Alex_
09-09-07, 11:30 AM Ah, right. Supernatural, not spell-like. This is what happens when I don't get the book to check. What Alex said.

Psionics are considered spell-like abilities as well.

"Telepathy, mental combat and psychic powers—psionics is a catchall word that describes special mental abilities possessed by various creatures. These are spell-like abilities that a creature generates from the power of its mind alone—no other outside magical force or ritual is needed. Each psionic creature’s description contains details on its psionic abilities." -SRD

Actually, I forgot that that Supernatural is a classification of powers in D&D, covering such abilities as the Monk's Wholeness of Body Class feature.

Either way,the general idea is that unless you use Construct related spells, Craft, Heal (not that it'd help much in most situations), Repair, or abilities otherwise listed, that Warforged only benefit from halved HP restoration.
Aidan Milvus
09-09-07, 05:52 PM RAW, no Psionics cannot heal them for full HP.

The ECS says, "...supernatural abilities that cure hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect to a warforged."

...

Considering how involved Psionics were in the Eberron setting from the beginning, I doubt there was an accidental oversight regarding how their powers would interact with Eberron's new races (one of which is naturally Psionic).

Psionics are considered spell-like abilities as well.

"Telepathy, mental combat and psychic powers—psionics is a catchall word that describes special mental abilities possessed by various creatures. These are spell-like abilities that a creature generates from the power of its mind alone—no other outside magical force or ritual is needed. Each psionic creature’s description contains details on its psionic abilities." -SRD

Ok... So The ECS says that Spells of the Healing subschool and supernatural abilities that heal hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect. As Alex pointed out, Psionics are spell-like abilites, not supernatural abilties nor spells of the healing subdomain, so from your own sources, you're saying exactly opposite of what you've proven. If Psionics are considered spell-like abilities, then they are NOT supernatural abilities, so they should provide full healing to warforged.

And I agree, they did not specify psionics as NOT affecting warforged normally, so RAW, they should affect them fully. Powers like empathic transfer and touch of healing should RAW affect them normally.

Unless someone else can show where the SRD says that psionics are supernatural they should affect warforged normally...
Alex_
09-09-07, 10:48 PM Ok... So The ECS says that Spells of the Healing subschool and supernatural abilities that heal hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect. As Alex pointed out, Psionics are spell-like abilites, not supernatural abilties nor spells of the healing subdomain, so from your own sources, you're saying exactly opposite of what you've proven. If Psionics are considered spell-like abilities, then they are NOT supernatural abilities, so they should provide full healing to warforged.

And I agree, they did not specify psionics as NOT affecting warforged normally, so RAW, they should affect them fully. Powers like empathic transfer and touch of healing should RAW affect them normally.

Unless someone else can show where the SRD says that psionics are supernatural they should affect warforged normally...

Howeever, Psionics still count as spell-like abilities, which, for all intents and purposes use the same rules as spells. Furthermore, in the default rules, Psionics and Magic effects are treated as pretty much equiveant. SR applies against Psionic powers, Dispel Psionics can remove Magical effects and vice versa. Also, the Psionic spells that heal have the [Healing] subtype just like Arcane/Divine spells.

Dragonmarks are also Spell-Like abilities, but that doesn't mean that Halflings with the Mark of Healing can heal Warforged for the full amount. Same for Warlock Invocations and Artificer Infusions.
Aidan Milvus
09-10-07, 05:02 AM And if you read my original post, you'd see that my dm is using the "psionics are different" option.

And again, the warforged trait specifies healing subSCHOOL while psionics don't have subschools, they have subDISCIPLINES... I know, I know, it's all semantics, but spell-like abilities are not spells. It might be true in the spirit of the rules, but you have to admit that RAW psionics SHOULD heal for full.
Alex_
09-10-07, 11:06 AM And if you read my original post, you'd see that my dm is using the "psionics are different" option.

However, Psionics are still spell-like abilities. However if you rule that neither is it a Spell-Like abilitiy, or that Psionic spell-like abilities are different, then it becomes a houserule, since neither the EPH or the ECS were written under the assumption that you would playing Eberron using those particular rule variants.

I know, I know, it's all semantics, but spell-like abilities are not spells.

They are treated as such, however. Dragonmark abilities are spell-like abilities and not "spells", but those that heal don't work fully on Warforged either.

It might be true in the spirit of the rules, but you have to admit that RAW psionics SHOULD heal for full.

Only if Spell-like abilities aren't treated as spells, but they are, unless otherwise noted.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aidan Milvus 09-05-07, 02:29 PM	Ok, I know there's Psionic Repair Damage for healing constructs, but I was wondering how other psionic healing works with Warforged. We just started a campaign, it's not eberron, but the dm is using warforged, so I figured this question would best be asked here. I'm playing an ardent with the life Mantle. I have Touch of Healing, a 1st lvl Psychometabolism (healing) power that uses positive energy to heal 2 hp's per level and powerpoint used. Now, we're also using the psionics are different (if that makes any difference to your opinions) and we know that arcane repair spells work normally, while divine cure spells only heal half as much. The warforged specifies that spells of the healing subschool only work half as well for warforged. Should this apply to the healing subdiscipline as well? I'm on the fence with this one. on the one hand, while it does use positive energy, which to me says its just like a cure spell, and it is of the healing Sub-whatever (discipline in this case, while cure is school) that makes me think that it should apply to the halving. But since "psionics are different" and it is technically not of the healing sub"school" this is specified, it makes me think that the power might not be halved. Our dm already ruled that that particular power will be halved as well, but I'm curious as to what you guys think.
Anguish2 09-08-07, 02:47 PM	Tricky, but I'd agree with the DM. I think the intention of the healing rules for warforged are to underscore and illustrate that warforged are different. They're just not made of the same stuff that elves and orcs are. While some things like a dragon shaman's healing aura (grants fast healing) should work properly on warforged (despite what the sage says), those are for specific reasons. I think it's fairly clear the intent is that any spell/power that is explicitly (healing) works at half efficacy. There isn't conjuration(healing) when talking about psionics, and what the ardent has is the equivalent.
TiwazTyrsfist 09-08-07, 05:15 PM	So, my personal feeling is that ANY HP restorative power (Other than Repair spells) should work at half power on warforged. However, based on the rulings on A> Goodberry, and B> Crusader powers from ToB, I would say that the general consensus is that RAW psionic healing works fully, since it's not a spell like ability that cures HP, or a spell from the Conjuration(Healing) sub-school.
Alex_ 09-08-07, 07:31 PM	RAW, no Psionics cannot heal them for full HP. The ECS says, "...supernatural abilities that cure hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect to a warforged." Psionic powers are supernatural, and as such, would heal for half value just like healing magic, or most any non-mundane form of healing (pact magic, shadow magic, etc) unlike otherwise noted like the Paladin's Lay on Hands ability. Considering how involved Psionics were in the Eberron setting from the beginning, I doubt there was an accidental oversight regarding how their powers would interact with Eberron's new races (one of which is naturally Psionic).
LoneStranger 09-09-07, 02:33 AM	Yeah I am inclined to agree that psi healing is only half as effective as well. It's effectively the same type of energy as healing spells just applied in a different way, so it would still not affect the rock part of the body. Ah well, there are always repair spells and abilities to fall back on.
TiwazTyrsfist 09-09-07, 06:24 AM	Ah, right. Supernatural, not spell-like. This is what happens when I don't get the book to check. What Alex said.
Alex_ 09-09-07, 11:30 AM	Ah, right. Supernatural, not spell-like. This is what happens when I don't get the book to check. What Alex said. Psionics are considered spell-like abilities as well. "Telepathy, mental combat and psychic powers—psionics is a catchall word that describes special mental abilities possessed by various creatures. These are spell-like abilities that a creature generates from the power of its mind alone—no other outside magical force or ritual is needed. Each psionic creature’s description contains details on its psionic abilities." -SRD Actually, I forgot that that Supernatural is a classification of powers in D&D, covering such abilities as the Monk's Wholeness of Body Class feature. Either way,the general idea is that unless you use Construct related spells, Craft, Heal (not that it'd help much in most situations), Repair, or abilities otherwise listed, that Warforged only benefit from halved HP restoration.
Aidan Milvus 09-09-07, 05:52 PM	RAW, no Psionics cannot heal them for full HP. The ECS says, "...supernatural abilities that cure hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect to a warforged." ... Considering how involved Psionics were in the Eberron setting from the beginning, I doubt there was an accidental oversight regarding how their powers would interact with Eberron's new races (one of which is naturally Psionic). Psionics are considered spell-like abilities as well. "Telepathy, mental combat and psychic powers—psionics is a catchall word that describes special mental abilities possessed by various creatures. These are spell-like abilities that a creature generates from the power of its mind alone—no other outside magical force or ritual is needed. Each psionic creature’s description contains details on its psionic abilities." -SRD Ok... So The ECS says that Spells of the Healing subschool and supernatural abilities that heal hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect. As Alex pointed out, Psionics are spell-like abilites, not supernatural abilties nor spells of the healing subdomain, so from your own sources, you're saying exactly opposite of what you've proven. If Psionics are considered spell-like abilities, then they are NOT supernatural abilities, so they should provide full healing to warforged. And I agree, they did not specify psionics as NOT affecting warforged normally, so RAW, they should affect them fully. Powers like empathic transfer and touch of healing should RAW affect them normally. Unless someone else can show where the SRD says that psionics are supernatural they should affect warforged normally...
Alex_ 09-09-07, 10:48 PM	Ok... So The ECS says that Spells of the Healing subschool and supernatural abilities that heal hit point damage or ability damage provide only half their normal effect. As Alex pointed out, Psionics are spell-like abilites, not supernatural abilties nor spells of the healing subdomain, so from your own sources, you're saying exactly opposite of what you've proven. If Psionics are considered spell-like abilities, then they are NOT supernatural abilities, so they should provide full healing to warforged. And I agree, they did not specify psionics as NOT affecting warforged normally, so RAW, they should affect them fully. Powers like empathic transfer and touch of healing should RAW affect them normally. Unless someone else can show where the SRD says that psionics are supernatural they should affect warforged normally... Howeever, Psionics still count as spell-like abilities, which, for all intents and purposes use the same rules as spells. Furthermore, in the default rules, Psionics and Magic effects are treated as pretty much equiveant. SR applies against Psionic powers, Dispel Psionics can remove Magical effects and vice versa. Also, the Psionic spells that heal have the [Healing] subtype just like Arcane/Divine spells. Dragonmarks are also Spell-Like abilities, but that doesn't mean that Halflings with the Mark of Healing can heal Warforged for the full amount. Same for Warlock Invocations and Artificer Infusions.
Aidan Milvus 09-10-07, 05:02 AM	And if you read my original post, you'd see that my dm is using the "psionics are different" option. And again, the warforged trait specifies healing subSCHOOL while psionics don't have subschools, they have subDISCIPLINES... I know, I know, it's all semantics, but spell-like abilities are not spells. It might be true in the spirit of the rules, but you have to admit that RAW psionics SHOULD heal for full.
Alex_ 09-10-07, 11:06 AM	And if you read my original post, you'd see that my dm is using the "psionics are different" option. However, Psionics are still spell-like abilities. However if you rule that neither is it a Spell-Like abilitiy, or that Psionic spell-like abilities are different, then it becomes a houserule, since neither the EPH or the ECS were written under the assumption that you would playing Eberron using those particular rule variants. I know, I know, it's all semantics, but spell-like abilities are not spells. They are treated as such, however. Dragonmark abilities are spell-like abilities and not "spells", but those that heal don't work fully on Warforged either. It might be true in the spirit of the rules, but you have to admit that RAW psionics SHOULD heal for full. Only if Spell-like abilities aren't treated as spells, but they are, unless otherwise noted.