Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shiftkitty 01-24-08, 03:54 PM	This situation started innocent enough. The warforged character speaks in a monotone voice. I think I read that monotone is the normal voice for the warforged, anyway. The player uses it to wonderful RP effect. His character hums while he's working or thinking. It's something he's seen other races do, and he enjoys it, so he hums... monotonously. It drives the other PCs up the walls (their players find it funny and try to identify the songs), and one, the warforged's closest thing to a 'best friend' finally snapped and screamed at him to learn another note before he strangled him. This led to a discussion over whether or not the warforged are monotone, and whether or not they could manifest any kind of artisitic talent. I said 'yes' and 'yes'. The first because many communications signals, such as morse code, are used quite effectively without subtle nuances in intonation. Thus, as military equipment, changes in vocal tone would be an unnecessary luxury, and probably only very special orders would have gotten that 'option'. The second one I said 'yes' to, but with the qualifier that they could only mimic existing styles. 'Art' requires that intangible quality known as 'soul', and I don't think the warforged have souls. So, what do you think? Is the PC 'War Story' the next "Eberron Idol"? Or am I wrong all the way 'round?
skrap-san 01-24-08, 04:55 PM	In the warforged part of the races of Eberron you will find that warforged arts and crafts has increased in popularity in places like Sharn and other major cities. We are here talking about things they make to keep themselves occupied. I just thought that it would add to the discussion at hand. Now personally I would say it depends on what you describe as art. In the old days in Europe, around the middle ages, an artist was a craftsman on the same line as a carpenter or blacksmith. Now on the warforged can advance as bards. Just thought I'd mention it. This gives them a deep and profound understanding of arts. But we could still be talking about a mimicry of something the warforged has already heard. Personally I have not taken a stance to weather or not a warforged has a soul. But I still feel that as a sentient being with likes and dislikes the warforged would be able to create unique artworks. After all it was Newton who said, "I only seem big because I have been standing on the shoulders of giants." Meaning we combine what already exists with something of ourselves to create something new. And as a sentient being, I don't see why warforged should not be able to do the same.
nights_the_necromancer 01-29-08, 03:52 PM	i dont see why not with enough practice and a new type of voice box the warforged should be able to form other noises then the one he was created with after all some warforged pick up scrap wood and whittle it into appealing shapes
JulesCARV 01-29-08, 05:08 PM	Hmm... warforged take a -1 to all perform checks thanks to their charisma penalty, of course, and their hearing isn't as accute as a human's (-1 to listen checks) thanks to their wisdom penalty, which might make them less likely to appreciate the subtleties of music, but besides that, I think that they could engage in arts, including singing, okay. I don't see why they'd have to be monotone -- House Cannith didn't (and couldn't) micromanage what exact features warforged have, so whether speaking like an ordinary human and not talking in monotone is a "luxury" or not, they could have ended up with it anyway. Their military mindset might give their music a bit of a martial tone. Maybe they'd be good at national anthems, marching band music, and the like.
Shiftkitty 01-29-08, 09:18 PM	Okay, maybe I'll let him develop his art. After all, the PC does have the Craft skill of Weaponsmith. Maybe he'll develop a signature style for the weapons he makes or repairs. As for his singing, I'll probably let War Story find a destroyed warforged. Useless. Just parts. Either he or his buddies might salvage the voice box, especially if any of them recognize it as a higher-end model. Not likely for the drow, but War Story might notice "Holy mother of machinery! It's a GG-88 Tonemaster!" Yeah, hanging out with War Story is like hanging out with a Buick that referes to you and your friends as "meat constructs".:D
Tordak 01-30-08, 09:36 AM	Altough Warforged are constructed, their coming to life is operated by a magical process not understood (or not very well understood). Whatever magic animate the warforged, give them sentience and senses can very well give them the ability to learn the subtility of the ability to communicate (through speech or music), including tone variation. If you're the DM it is entierly up to you to make the assomption as to whether or not the are monotone, and if they can learn this. My opinion is they should be able to, as they are able to learn many other things. Magic works in unknown ways, especially when it come to creating 'living construct'. Also a hint of this possibility is the fact that nothing seems to prevent them from becoming bards, which would certainly require the ability to understand and use music and tone variation through one's voice.
Captain_Kobold 01-30-08, 10:23 AM	The monotone would not be a function of the warforged's voice apparatus, but of its emotions and need/lack to express them. Anything capable of replicating a human voice would be capable of speaking in more than a monotone: conveying emotions is more a matter of timed emphasis than technical ability.The Warforged might have less tonal range than a human, but this will not be a limiting factor in normal speech. As soldiers, warforged were probably trained to speak in a monotone, so as to convey orders and reports more clearly. Now that many no longer follow the same path, they are probably starting to pick up habits of speech from the people around them so as to fit in better. They may start by putting emphasis in all the wrong places, but they can refine this. Not all warforged may do this, but they are probably all capable of it. As to artistic talent, it is known that warforged art has a small, but fervent following, mostly in Breland, but also in other nations. The degree of true creativity seems to be less than that of humans, but it seems to exist. Also, I know that it has been repeated ad nauseam, but it bears repeating again: Warforged are not robots or mechanical constructs. They emerge whole from the creation forges as individual beings with different capabilities. A warforged could no more replace his voice box with that of a dead warforged, than a human could tear out his own throat and replace it with a chunk of flesh from the thoat of a corpse. The existence of a warforged component to expand the vocal capabilities of a warforged could explain what you had in mind. It may have been designed for a bard and allow the warforged to replicate music and other sounds as opposed to simply his voice. This would also explain why it had not degraded away with the rest of the warforged's bady after death.
Paradox-of-Life 01-30-08, 02:59 PM	stuff Also, I know that it has been repeated ad nauseam, but it bears repeating again: Warforged are not robots or mechanical constructs. They emerge whole from the creation forges as individual beings with different capabilities. A warforged could no more replace his voice box with that of a dead warforged, than a human could tear out his own throat and replace it with a chunk of flesh from the thoat of a corpse. The existence of a warforged component to expand the vocal capabilities of a warforged could explain what you had in mind. It may have been designed for a bard and allow the warforged to replicate music and other sounds as opposed to simply his voice. This would also explain why it had not degraded away with the rest of the warforged's bady after death. Actually, a human could. It just requires more surgery then it would for a warforged, considering all that cumbersome blood and frail tissue. I don't think they are saying anything along this line: 'Forged Rogue: *sneak attacks other warforged* HAHA, DUDE, I GOT YOUR HEART, LOL! Other 'Forged: HEY, GIVE THAT BACK! *critical strikes 'Forged Rogue* LOL, what now, I got your face! 'Forged Rogue: S***! Trade? It just makes sense that Warforged can change their parts and have a much easier time at it because they do not have frail parts. Their arm comes off, its still metal and wood. Its not going to deteriorate at the speed of flesh at all. If people had that kind of sinew quality, don't you think we would be doing that as well?
Shiftkitty 01-30-08, 03:43 PM	That's what I was thinking, that it would be sort of similar to an organ transplant. (Of course, my husband pointed out that War Story might actually be horrified at the idea of salvaging a part from a dead warforged. I know that some have some grasp of spirituality, so depending on how the player takes War Story, he might consider it blasphemous. I got to create the backstory for the character. I don't know if it will help me sort out the situation regarding his voice box. Maybe it got damaged? War Story is an older model. Like my truck, he's strong, built to work, but is lacking in aesthetics. He looks pretty much like the basic warforged in the ECS Races section, except that he recently got the set of choppers to his jaw that gives him a nasty bite attack. He was present for many, many major battles and great historical events, but not necessarily in the thick of things. In fact, he was usually out on the fringes*. He has all the tendencies to become a Reforged because of his fascination with people-watching and his attempts to become something more than just an observer. (He learned to pay attention to the small details during the war, when he was often asked for reports.) After the war, he sought employment ("a post", he calls it) any place there were a lot of people. He finally signed on at a tavern in Sharn, working in the back where he listened to all of the employee gossip about each other and about the customers. Eventually, three drow from Xen'drik (the other PCs) looking for a particular location, one of the many that War Story had been to during the war. He took his leave of his job to lead them to their destination, all the distance keeping them entertained (read: :bored: bored) with tales of obscurity and trivia about a war none of the drow had any interest in. Almost every conversation with him starts out "That reminds of back in the war, when..." I figure that maybe his voice got damaged during the war, but probably not during any actual fighting. "I wasn't looking where I was going when this ogre carrying an armful of polearms spun around and tagged me in the throat. You know, that reminds me of back in the war, when..." I doubt he'll be able to get it fixed any time soon. He followed his comrades to Xen'drik where, after seeing his skill with weaponsmithing, the tribe decided he could stick around. I don't think they have any means of fixing his voice box. *I got this idea from my father's WW2 war stories, specifically the one from 1945. He was on board the USS Missouri and didn't know why everyone was in their dress whites, or why some general was sitting at a table talking to some Japanese guys, or why everybody was so excited. He didn't learn until the 1950's that it was the official surrender of the Japanese.
kelvinaw273 01-31-08, 09:15 AM	The Kalashtar are fascinated by the warforged, wondering how they got souls as there was clearly no intent in the Canith forges to grant them such, to paraphrase Races of Eberron. Hence, warforged have souls, and produce art. As for talking in monotones, I would assume that they have the capacity to achieve a full range of human vocalization, but not all learn how to do so. Prolonged contact among humans leads to them learning to express themselves more clearly and the humans around them learning to interpret the way they do so.