Warforged Creation Policy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warforged Creation Policy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Khan the Destroyer
03-30-08, 09:37 PM Hey everyone! I've been milling over this question for some time now and figured you guys might have some interesting stuff to add. I've wanted to play a warforged in Eberron for quite some time now, and now that a friend of mine has moved to the city, we may get a game going.

I've thought of various backgrounds and such, but I keep coming back to the founding of a warforged nation. My character doesn't actually have to do it (I obviously don't know how his story will pan out), but I'd like to be instrumental in some way. Whether or not it happens... who knows?

But it got me thinking... assuming the warforged could forge a nation, and get a Creation Forge, what sort of policy would be set for the creation of new warforged? Certainly there would have to be some sort of agreement between the nations (again, assuming the warforged had a nation and the others were willing to acknowledge it and allow the Creation Forge).

Assuming that it could even happen, how would the warforged determine who could create a new warforged, and when? Since the warforged do not die of old age, how would they deal with an overpopulation?

I guess... what would be some ramifications of the warforged wanting to create new warforged?

Thanks for pondering,
Khan
skrap-san
03-31-08, 01:54 AM Since the warforged do not die of old age, how would they deal with an overpopulation?

Actually we don't know that for a fact, there have been a long and healthy discussion about that, and if warforged feel pain of any kind.

What we do know about warforged and ageing,is that we don't know anything, and that it is all up to the DM.

I guess... what would be some ramifications of the warforged wanting to create new warforged?

There is three things to take into consideration here:
1) The treaty of Thronehold decleares that no one can create any more warforged on the continent of Khorvaire. In Xen'dirk or Sarlona? Sure, but not Khorvaire.

2) Where would they create the nation? Everywhere but in the mournlands they would have to start a war to get their own land. Are they ready for that?

3) What would house Cannith say? Warforged were the most profitable thing they have ever created, I'm convinced that they would under no circumstances allow for someone to know their creation secrets, and make a profit that should by right have been theirs.

I know its no answers, but I like to think of them as clarifying questions. So I hope it helps.
Syltorian
03-31-08, 10:25 AM [B]1) The treaty of Thronehold decleares that no one can create any more warforged on the continent of Khorvaire. In Xen'dirk or Sarlona? Sure, but not Khorvaire.

Would it be forbidden in Droaam, the Shadow Marches and the Demon Wastes? None of these places are signatories to Thronehold, and the Accords would hold no sway there. And given that Cyre was not allowed to sign either, the Mournland is outside of the treaty too.

As for the ramifications... I don't think is a problem in the short term. Especially if you get rid of the fleshies, Lords-of-Blades-style, there is a long way to go before there is any over-population. Besides, the problems of overpopulation are less acute for warforged than for living creatures: you don't need food, water, or sanitation. You can tear down all the forests and destroy nature; warforged do not rely on fresh air or anything of the kind. You still need space, of course, but Khorvaire is large.
glug
03-31-08, 02:43 PM I think the treaty extends further than it's written. For example, we don't have House Cannith pumping out millions of warforged in Stormreach, trying to sell them to the highest bidding nation to start up the war again, do we?

The treaty extends to all Khorvaire, because the rest of the nations would certainly band up and put a stop to any significant and overt violation, whether it be in Droaam or Stormreach. They would have to. There's a reason all of the nations were buying up warforged and using them in the war.

I think if your warforged character has such lofty goals, he should consider starting smaller. Found a warforged city. If you can do that, consider some kind of treaty for small sovereign warforged lands within an existing nation, or go carve that land out yourself from one of the less-civilized (ie: non-treaty) nations, and make sure you've worked up your political allies within Khorvaire before doing it.

And then, maybe 50 years after you've established some small nation there, start thinking about approaching the idea of creating more warforged in your nation, via house Cannith, with the blessing and oversight of the treatied nations. Otherwise, you'll get squished.
skrap-san
03-31-08, 02:59 PM A good place to do all this could be the shadow marches. No one has claimed it as a land (I think house Tharashk would like to do it if they could find a way). Rich on resources such as Eberron shards, the harsh environment don't really affect the forged ones. You could "hire" yourself out as miners etc to gain influence. And it is remote enough so that the "inland" people would spend a long time figuring out if you had a creation forge or not.
Syltorian
03-31-08, 03:36 PM I think the treaty extends further than it's written. For example, we don't have House Cannith pumping out millions of warforged in Stormreach, trying to sell them to the highest bidding nation to start up the war again, do we?

That's a valid point, but there may be another reason (one that this is not mutually exclusive without your point): it could be that the Treaty not only forbids the creation of warforged within its territory, but also the buying of warforged. In that situation, Cannith could mass-produce warforged in Stormreach all they wanted, but nobody would be able to buy them except for a few rich people in Stormreach itself. Commercially, such an enterprise would be doomed other than for creating prototypes to get a head start on the next war.

Of course, the nations could simply decide to boycott Cannith if they find out about this... or worse, support a rival faction from the one that engages in warforged sciences (most likely, Cannith South).

The treaty extends to all Khorvaire, because the rest of the nations would certainly band up and put a stop to any significant and overt violation, whether it be in Droaam or Stormreach. They would have to. There's a reason all of the nations were buying up warforged and using them in the war.

Again a valid point, but there are various breaches of the Treaty which the nations do not react to. Darguun still practices slavery. The Valenar happily invade the Talenta Plains on a regular basis, even if their government officially dissociates itself from this. Both Thrane and Karrnath have found ways around the treaty, in as far as warforged freedom is concerned, which are not actually breaches but come close. Of course, none of is a significant threat to stability or a dangerous advantage to any nation (rather than a violation of the Treaty) that could provide the incentive for the nations to band together, so your point still stands.

I think if your warforged character has such lofty goals, he should consider starting smaller. Found a warforged city. If you can do that, consider some kind of treaty for small sovereign warforged lands within an existing nation, or go carve that land out yourself from one of the less-civilized (ie: non-treaty) nations, and make sure you've worked up your political allies within Khorvaire before doing it.

And then, maybe 50 years after you've established some small nation there, start thinking about approaching the idea of creating more warforged in your nation, via house Cannith, with the blessing and oversight of the treatied nations. Otherwise, you'll get squished.

This is all very good advice.
AvenKnight
03-31-08, 06:17 PM being logical robots , in a sense, they would never overpopulate themselves. they would stay with the logical answer and only create what was necessary to survive.

they would have an army and the arms build would be stationed at a barracks.

they would have the leaders stationed at the capital building.

they would have an embassy and warforge build to moderate the nations treaty's.

and warforge to harvest crops and other substances required for trading with other nations.
Khan the Destroyer
03-31-08, 09:32 PM Great comments and advice everyone!
Actually we don't know that for a fact, there have been a long and healthy discussion about that, and if warforged feel pain of any kind.

What we do know about warforged and ageing,is that we don't know anything, and that it is all up to the DM.
Ahhh... I see. I had thought that perhaps a warforged of notable works relating to the advancement of the race would have the opportunity to forge a new warforged as he drew closer to death. This may still be an idea if they do indeed perish of old age.
3) What would house Cannith say? Warforged were the most profitable thing they have ever created, I'm convinced that they would under no circumstances allow for someone to know their creation secrets, and make a profit that should by right have been theirs.
Well, I am not assuming that the warforged would create more warforged for profit, but to continue their race. Cannith no longer really has a claim on warforged, but I agree there may likely be an uneasiness about it.

While we're on the topic... are Cannith dragonmarked needed to operate the forges? If so, this would mean that the Cannith house would need to be on board.
Especially if you get rid of the fleshies, Lords-of-Blades-style, there is a long way to go before there is any over-population. Besides, the problems of overpopulation are less acute for warforged than for living creatures: you don't need food, water, or sanitation. You can tear down all the forests and destroy nature; warforged do not rely on fresh air or anything of the kind. You still need space, of course, but Khorvaire is large.
Agreed. When I mentioned overpopulation, I meant in the sense that warforged may not naturally die. I doubt the other nations and races would want the warforged just simply popping out new warforged willy-nilly. They may suspect an imminent attack. There would have to be some way to ensure that the warforged population would not boom, otherwise I doubt it could be considered a possibility.

I think if your warforged character has such lofty goals, he should consider starting smaller. Found a warforged city. If you can do that, consider some kind of treaty for small sovereign warforged lands within an existing nation, or go carve that land out yourself from one of the less-civilized (ie: non-treaty) nations, and make sure you've worked up your political allies within Khorvaire before doing it.

And then, maybe 50 years after you've established some small nation there, start thinking about approaching the idea of creating more warforged in your nation, via house Cannith, with the blessing and oversight of the treatied nations. Otherwise, you'll get squished.
Agreed. Good advice :).
A good place to do all this could be the shadow marches. No one has claimed it as a land (I think house Tharashk would like to do it if they could find a way). Rich on resources such as Eberron shards, the harsh environment don't really affect the forged ones. You could "hire" yourself out as miners etc to gain influence. And it is remote enough so that the "inland" people would spend a long time figuring out if you had a creation forge or not.
What do the druids think of warforged? Do they find them unnatural? The location seems sound but for the potential enemies that live there.
wraithstrike
03-31-08, 10:54 PM Hey everyone! I've been milling over this question for some time now and figured you guys might have some interesting stuff to add. I've wanted to play a warforged in Eberron for quite some time now, and now that a friend of mine has moved to the city, we may get a game going.

I've thought of various backgrounds and such, but I keep coming back to the founding of a warforged nation. My character doesn't actually have to do it (I obviously don't know how his story will pan out), but I'd like to be instrumental in some way. Whether or not it happens... who knows?

But it got me thinking... assuming the warforged could forge a nation, and get a Creation Forge, what sort of policy would be set for the creation of new warforged? Certainly there would have to be some sort of agreement between the nations (again, assuming the warforged had a nation and the others were willing to acknowledge it and allow the Creation Forge).

Assuming that it could even happen, how would the warforged determine who could create a new warforged, and when? Since the warforged do not die of old age, how would they deal with an overpopulation?

I guess... what would be some ramifications of the warforged wanting to create new warforged?

Thanks for pondering,
Khan

You could just be like the lord of blades and the rest of house Cannith and do what you want without permission, just make sure your forge is hard to find, and as for the effect on that rest of the world it depends on whether you let them remain free or use this as slaves/an army. If you free them you should give them some skills first so they are not just walking pieces of metal and wood.
The Fireballed Mage
04-01-08, 12:11 AM being logical robots , in a sense, they would never overpopulate themselves. they would stay with the logical answer and only create what was necessary to survive.

Sorry, but your information is incorrect. Warforged are not logical robots. They no more follow the principles of logic than the fleshies.

But, they are soldiers trained from 'birth' to be fighting machines. Because of this focus on fighting and nothing else, they are generally emotionally stunted and unused to expressing themselves. But they do feel emotion, can suffer from irrationality and other failing of the character. They can rush to judgment, they can make bad decisions, they can even willingly ignore evidence that does not conform to their own world view.

Once given the opportunity to 'procreate', warforged might see this a proof that they are indeed a true 'race' and rush to create children of their own. This could drive a horrendous population explosion and a desperate drive for new resources so the nation can build new 'children'.

A human might invade your nation because, "I need your crops to feed my starving children."

A warforged in such a situation might invade your nation because, "I need your forests, your metal, and your stone to build my children."

Warforged are not robots in a fantasy setting. They are human-like souls placed in bodies of metal, wood, and stone. They have all the emotional range of the fleshy races... their only lack is experience in expressing themselves.
skrap-san
04-01-08, 04:08 PM While we're on the topic... are Cannith dragonmarked needed to operate the forges? If so, this would mean that the Cannith house would need to be on board.

I think you have to have the mark of making to use the forges with success. Yes the lord of blades is rumoured to have acquired a forge, but the same rumours state that he only produce flawed warforged. Sadly I don't remember where I heard the rumour, it might just be from the boards, but it's still a good rumour to play with.

What do the druids think of warforged? Do they find them unnatural? The location seems sound but for the potential enemies that live there.
I think the druids would be suspicious, but if the warforged did take pains to live alongside the harsh environment and not trying to summon dark powers of destruction they would accept it, most likely not overly thrilled either, but on a general scale acceptance would be there. Except for the fanatics that see all magic as unnatural.
Syltorian
04-02-08, 08:45 AM What do the druids think of warforged? Do they find them unnatural? The location seems sound but for the potential enemies that live there.

I had completely forgotten this existed until I checked up something else... but you'd get a great (and official) overview by the Hellcow himself in this Dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20051024a).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khan the Destroyer 03-30-08, 09:37 PM	Hey everyone! I've been milling over this question for some time now and figured you guys might have some interesting stuff to add. I've wanted to play a warforged in Eberron for quite some time now, and now that a friend of mine has moved to the city, we may get a game going. I've thought of various backgrounds and such, but I keep coming back to the founding of a warforged nation. My character doesn't actually have to do it (I obviously don't know how his story will pan out), but I'd like to be instrumental in some way. Whether or not it happens... who knows? But it got me thinking... assuming the warforged could forge a nation, and get a Creation Forge, what sort of policy would be set for the creation of new warforged? Certainly there would have to be some sort of agreement between the nations (again, assuming the warforged had a nation and the others were willing to acknowledge it and allow the Creation Forge). Assuming that it could even happen, how would the warforged determine who could create a new warforged, and when? Since the warforged do not die of old age, how would they deal with an overpopulation? I guess... what would be some ramifications of the warforged wanting to create new warforged? Thanks for pondering, Khan
skrap-san 03-31-08, 01:54 AM	Since the warforged do not die of old age, how would they deal with an overpopulation? Actually we don't know that for a fact, there have been a long and healthy discussion about that, and if warforged feel pain of any kind. What we do know about warforged and ageing,is that we don't know anything, and that it is all up to the DM. I guess... what would be some ramifications of the warforged wanting to create new warforged? There is three things to take into consideration here: 1) The treaty of Thronehold decleares that no one can create any more warforged on the continent of Khorvaire. In Xen'dirk or Sarlona? Sure, but not Khorvaire. 2) Where would they create the nation? Everywhere but in the mournlands they would have to start a war to get their own land. Are they ready for that? 3) What would house Cannith say? Warforged were the most profitable thing they have ever created, I'm convinced that they would under no circumstances allow for someone to know their creation secrets, and make a profit that should by right have been theirs. I know its no answers, but I like to think of them as clarifying questions. So I hope it helps.
Syltorian 03-31-08, 10:25 AM	[B]1) The treaty of Thronehold decleares that no one can create any more warforged on the continent of Khorvaire. In Xen'dirk or Sarlona? Sure, but not Khorvaire. Would it be forbidden in Droaam, the Shadow Marches and the Demon Wastes? None of these places are signatories to Thronehold, and the Accords would hold no sway there. And given that Cyre was not allowed to sign either, the Mournland is outside of the treaty too. As for the ramifications... I don't think is a problem in the short term. Especially if you get rid of the fleshies, Lords-of-Blades-style, there is a long way to go before there is any over-population. Besides, the problems of overpopulation are less acute for warforged than for living creatures: you don't need food, water, or sanitation. You can tear down all the forests and destroy nature; warforged do not rely on fresh air or anything of the kind. You still need space, of course, but Khorvaire is large.
glug 03-31-08, 02:43 PM	I think the treaty extends further than it's written. For example, we don't have House Cannith pumping out millions of warforged in Stormreach, trying to sell them to the highest bidding nation to start up the war again, do we? The treaty extends to all Khorvaire, because the rest of the nations would certainly band up and put a stop to any significant and overt violation, whether it be in Droaam or Stormreach. They would have to. There's a reason all of the nations were buying up warforged and using them in the war. I think if your warforged character has such lofty goals, he should consider starting smaller. Found a warforged city. If you can do that, consider some kind of treaty for small sovereign warforged lands within an existing nation, or go carve that land out yourself from one of the less-civilized (ie: non-treaty) nations, and make sure you've worked up your political allies within Khorvaire before doing it. And then, maybe 50 years after you've established some small nation there, start thinking about approaching the idea of creating more warforged in your nation, via house Cannith, with the blessing and oversight of the treatied nations. Otherwise, you'll get squished.
skrap-san 03-31-08, 02:59 PM	A good place to do all this could be the shadow marches. No one has claimed it as a land (I think house Tharashk would like to do it if they could find a way). Rich on resources such as Eberron shards, the harsh environment don't really affect the forged ones. You could "hire" yourself out as miners etc to gain influence. And it is remote enough so that the "inland" people would spend a long time figuring out if you had a creation forge or not.
Syltorian 03-31-08, 03:36 PM	I think the treaty extends further than it's written. For example, we don't have House Cannith pumping out millions of warforged in Stormreach, trying to sell them to the highest bidding nation to start up the war again, do we? That's a valid point, but there may be another reason (one that this is not mutually exclusive without your point): it could be that the Treaty not only forbids the creation of warforged within its territory, but also the buying of warforged. In that situation, Cannith could mass-produce warforged in Stormreach all they wanted, but nobody would be able to buy them except for a few rich people in Stormreach itself. Commercially, such an enterprise would be doomed other than for creating prototypes to get a head start on the next war. Of course, the nations could simply decide to boycott Cannith if they find out about this... or worse, support a rival faction from the one that engages in warforged sciences (most likely, Cannith South). The treaty extends to all Khorvaire, because the rest of the nations would certainly band up and put a stop to any significant and overt violation, whether it be in Droaam or Stormreach. They would have to. There's a reason all of the nations were buying up warforged and using them in the war. Again a valid point, but there are various breaches of the Treaty which the nations do not react to. Darguun still practices slavery. The Valenar happily invade the Talenta Plains on a regular basis, even if their government officially dissociates itself from this. Both Thrane and Karrnath have found ways around the treaty, in as far as warforged freedom is concerned, which are not actually breaches but come close. Of course, none of is a significant threat to stability or a dangerous advantage to any nation (rather than a violation of the Treaty) that could provide the incentive for the nations to band together, so your point still stands. I think if your warforged character has such lofty goals, he should consider starting smaller. Found a warforged city. If you can do that, consider some kind of treaty for small sovereign warforged lands within an existing nation, or go carve that land out yourself from one of the less-civilized (ie: non-treaty) nations, and make sure you've worked up your political allies within Khorvaire before doing it. And then, maybe 50 years after you've established some small nation there, start thinking about approaching the idea of creating more warforged in your nation, via house Cannith, with the blessing and oversight of the treatied nations. Otherwise, you'll get squished. This is all very good advice.
AvenKnight 03-31-08, 06:17 PM	being logical robots , in a sense, they would never overpopulate themselves. they would stay with the logical answer and only create what was necessary to survive. they would have an army and the arms build would be stationed at a barracks. they would have the leaders stationed at the capital building. they would have an embassy and warforge build to moderate the nations treaty's. and warforge to harvest crops and other substances required for trading with other nations.
Khan the Destroyer 03-31-08, 09:32 PM	Great comments and advice everyone! Actually we don't know that for a fact, there have been a long and healthy discussion about that, and if warforged feel pain of any kind. What we do know about warforged and ageing,is that we don't know anything, and that it is all up to the DM. Ahhh... I see. I had thought that perhaps a warforged of notable works relating to the advancement of the race would have the opportunity to forge a new warforged as he drew closer to death. This may still be an idea if they do indeed perish of old age. 3) What would house Cannith say? Warforged were the most profitable thing they have ever created, I'm convinced that they would under no circumstances allow for someone to know their creation secrets, and make a profit that should by right have been theirs. Well, I am not assuming that the warforged would create more warforged for profit, but to continue their race. Cannith no longer really has a claim on warforged, but I agree there may likely be an uneasiness about it. While we're on the topic... are Cannith dragonmarked needed to operate the forges? If so, this would mean that the Cannith house would need to be on board. Especially if you get rid of the fleshies, Lords-of-Blades-style, there is a long way to go before there is any over-population. Besides, the problems of overpopulation are less acute for warforged than for living creatures: you don't need food, water, or sanitation. You can tear down all the forests and destroy nature; warforged do not rely on fresh air or anything of the kind. You still need space, of course, but Khorvaire is large. Agreed. When I mentioned overpopulation, I meant in the sense that warforged may not naturally die. I doubt the other nations and races would want the warforged just simply popping out new warforged willy-nilly. They may suspect an imminent attack. There would have to be some way to ensure that the warforged population would not boom, otherwise I doubt it could be considered a possibility. I think if your warforged character has such lofty goals, he should consider starting smaller. Found a warforged city. If you can do that, consider some kind of treaty for small sovereign warforged lands within an existing nation, or go carve that land out yourself from one of the less-civilized (ie: non-treaty) nations, and make sure you've worked up your political allies within Khorvaire before doing it. And then, maybe 50 years after you've established some small nation there, start thinking about approaching the idea of creating more warforged in your nation, via house Cannith, with the blessing and oversight of the treatied nations. Otherwise, you'll get squished. Agreed. Good advice :). A good place to do all this could be the shadow marches. No one has claimed it as a land (I think house Tharashk would like to do it if they could find a way). Rich on resources such as Eberron shards, the harsh environment don't really affect the forged ones. You could "hire" yourself out as miners etc to gain influence. And it is remote enough so that the "inland" people would spend a long time figuring out if you had a creation forge or not. What do the druids think of warforged? Do they find them unnatural? The location seems sound but for the potential enemies that live there.
wraithstrike 03-31-08, 10:54 PM	Hey everyone! I've been milling over this question for some time now and figured you guys might have some interesting stuff to add. I've wanted to play a warforged in Eberron for quite some time now, and now that a friend of mine has moved to the city, we may get a game going. I've thought of various backgrounds and such, but I keep coming back to the founding of a warforged nation. My character doesn't actually have to do it (I obviously don't know how his story will pan out), but I'd like to be instrumental in some way. Whether or not it happens... who knows? But it got me thinking... assuming the warforged could forge a nation, and get a Creation Forge, what sort of policy would be set for the creation of new warforged? Certainly there would have to be some sort of agreement between the nations (again, assuming the warforged had a nation and the others were willing to acknowledge it and allow the Creation Forge). Assuming that it could even happen, how would the warforged determine who could create a new warforged, and when? Since the warforged do not die of old age, how would they deal with an overpopulation? I guess... what would be some ramifications of the warforged wanting to create new warforged? Thanks for pondering, Khan You could just be like the lord of blades and the rest of house Cannith and do what you want without permission, just make sure your forge is hard to find, and as for the effect on that rest of the world it depends on whether you let them remain free or use this as slaves/an army. If you free them you should give them some skills first so they are not just walking pieces of metal and wood.
The Fireballed Mage 04-01-08, 12:11 AM	being logical robots , in a sense, they would never overpopulate themselves. they would stay with the logical answer and only create what was necessary to survive. Sorry, but your information is incorrect. Warforged are not logical robots. They no more follow the principles of logic than the fleshies. But, they are soldiers trained from 'birth' to be fighting machines. Because of this focus on fighting and nothing else, they are generally emotionally stunted and unused to expressing themselves. But they do feel emotion, can suffer from irrationality and other failing of the character. They can rush to judgment, they can make bad decisions, they can even willingly ignore evidence that does not conform to their own world view. Once given the opportunity to 'procreate', warforged might see this a proof that they are indeed a true 'race' and rush to create children of their own. This could drive a horrendous population explosion and a desperate drive for new resources so the nation can build new 'children'. A human might invade your nation because, "I need your crops to feed my starving children." A warforged in such a situation might invade your nation because, "I need your forests, your metal, and your stone to build my children." Warforged are not robots in a fantasy setting. They are human-like souls placed in bodies of metal, wood, and stone. They have all the emotional range of the fleshy races... their only lack is experience in expressing themselves.
skrap-san 04-01-08, 04:08 PM	While we're on the topic... are Cannith dragonmarked needed to operate the forges? If so, this would mean that the Cannith house would need to be on board. I think you have to have the mark of making to use the forges with success. Yes the lord of blades is rumoured to have acquired a forge, but the same rumours state that he only produce flawed warforged. Sadly I don't remember where I heard the rumour, it might just be from the boards, but it's still a good rumour to play with. What do the druids think of warforged? Do they find them unnatural? The location seems sound but for the potential enemies that live there. I think the druids would be suspicious, but if the warforged did take pains to live alongside the harsh environment and not trying to summon dark powers of destruction they would accept it, most likely not overly thrilled either, but on a general scale acceptance would be there. Except for the fanatics that see all magic as unnatural.
Syltorian 04-02-08, 08:45 AM	What do the druids think of warforged? Do they find them unnatural? The location seems sound but for the potential enemies that live there. I had completely forgotten this existed until I checked up something else... but you'd get a great (and official) overview by the Hellcow himself in this Dragonshard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20051024a).