Warforged + Fast Healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warforged + Fast Healing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kaladon7779
04-02-07, 08:04 AM ok there's a spell called Vigor from the healing domain and when cast it gives the person effect of Fast Healing 2, does the 50% penalty effect on this spell also? if so could you please explain how it effects it?
Nundahl
04-02-07, 10:21 AM Well, to begin, I think you're a bit confused with your source.

The Healing Domain contains no such spell. Vigor does exist in Spell Compendium and Complete Divine I understand with what little research I've just done on the spell, but not having the spell in front of me doesn't allow me to give an absolute yes or no answer.

However, that being said I can tell you everything you need to know. Assuming you're asking if 'forged are effected by the lack of healing ability, well, it comes down to the school. If Vigor falls under Conjuration [Healing], then yes. If not, no. Simple as that.

Check your material, see what it says.

-Nundahl
Kaladon7779
04-02-07, 11:56 AM Vigor(CDiv p186)(DR324 p103)+
<Conj(heal), VS, 1StdAct, Touch, 10rnd + 1rnd per
level (max 25rnds total)>
– Touched living creature gains Fast Healing 2.
DarkWarriorKarg
04-02-07, 12:25 PM Vigor(CDiv p186)(DR324 p103)+
<Conj(heal), VS, 1StdAct, Touch, 10rnd + 1rnd per
level (max 25rnds total)>
– Touched living creature gains Fast Healing 2.

Strictly? For a warforged, same duration, Fast healing 1
goblin_pride
04-02-07, 04:50 PM Doesn't fast healing increase the speed at which you heal? Since warforged don't heal at all, I would think that increasing the speed of their healing would be completely and thoroughly pointless.

You don't heal naturally to begin with, but now you don't heal even faster.
DarkWarriorKarg
04-02-07, 05:44 PM Doesn't fast healing increase the speed at which you heal? Since warforged don't heal at all, I would think that increasing the speed of their healing would be completely and thoroughly pointless.

You don't heal naturally to begin with, but now you don't heal even faster.

Not really... other wise some undead would not be able to have it (vampires, for instance).

Besides, the spell grants fast healing, which is not normal healing.
Elvenshae
04-03-07, 05:16 PM ok there's a spell called Vigor from the healing domain and when cast it gives the person effect of Fast Healing 2, does the 50% penalty effect on this spell also? if so could you please explain how it effects it?

Strictly, Vigor is a spell from the Conjuration (Healing) school which does not heal any damage. It confers a special ability. As such, it's no different from a spell which grants blindsight or scent.

Therefore, normal warforged's partial immunity to healing doesn't affect it.
UnderworldLord
04-03-07, 06:14 PM I'd go with darkwarriorkarg on this one. Its conjuration [healing], grants the special ability to heal over time. Plus, its the least rules lawyer'd way to use it, and let it still work. To answer Goblin_Pride's way of looking at it, it increases the speed at which they heal from 0 (none at all) to fast healing 1.
Elderich
04-05-07, 01:45 PM Strictly, Vigor is a spell from the Conjuration (Healing) school which does not heal any damage. It confers a special ability. As such, it's no different from a spell which grants blindsight or scent.

Therefore, normal warforged's partial immunity to healing doesn't affect it.Interesting...

However the granted special ability does heal, and come from a spell in the heal subschool, thus it seems to meet the requirements of the restriction.

Now I am AFB ATM, so an examination of the language if the restriction would be in order.
Geregald
04-30-07, 12:55 PM Strictly? For a warforged, same duration, Fast healing 1

Agreeing with DWK here for the following reasons:

1) Fast Healing is not the same as natural healing, which all characters (minus constructs, living constructs, and some undead) have. "Healing" refers to natural hitpoint recovery for rest, whereas "Fast Healing" is a magically conferred ability.

2) "Healing" from rest presumably relies on a metabolism and the reconstruction of cells. Yes I know, using scientific explanations in D&D or Eberron is hazardous, but this is derived from the RAW for all other races & monsters: Those that would have a metabolism, immune systems, etc heal naturally whereas those without do not. "Fast Healing" magically restores a number of hitpoints equal to the respective spell/number; this is not an enhancement to normal "Healing," it is a separate effect.

3) Spells that grant "Fast Healing" are labelled with the [Healing] subschool, subjecting them to the limitation on natural healing unless, of course the Warforged has 3 levels of Reforged PrC, removing this limitation.

-Geregald
BlackTiger
05-01-07, 08:52 PM I'm inclined to agree that it halves the rate of fast healing, which is all fine and good for Vigor. But the real question is.... What about Lesser Vigor, and Fast Healing 1?
Geregald
05-02-07, 12:25 AM I'm inclined to agree that it halves the rate of fast healing, which is all fine and good for Vigor. But the real question is.... What about Lesser Vigor, and Fast Healing 1?

Well...

** Halving Lesser Vigor would put it at 0.5
** Rounding down would cause No Effect
** Rounding up would cause it to have the same effect as Vigor
** Rounding up would mean there's never a reason to use a higher-level spellslot for Vigor on a Warforged
** Therefore, rounding up makes Lesser Vigor overpowered on a warforged, since a lower-level spell retains the function of a higher-level spell

SOLUTION:
** Make Lesser Vigor heal the Warforged for 1hp every-other turn, as if it were actually affected by Fast Healing 1/2.

Voila.

-Geregald
Arcane Guyver
05-02-07, 12:50 AM The way I read it, it looks like Goblin Pride's got this one right. The vigor spells really should have no effect on warforged, without some houseruling. Other creatures with Fast Healing have it built-in as specific exceptions.
Grumgarr
05-02-07, 09:29 AM Vigor grants the Fast Healing ability (which no ECL-0 PC race gets) and has no relationship with the affected creature's 'natural' rate of healing, so I wouldn't deny it to Warforged.

It's a Conjuration (Healing) effect, so yes, it ought to be half as effective as normal, but I don't see any reason to deny Warforged some benefit. They're difficult enough to heal as it is.

I'd allow Lesser Vigor to heal 1 per 2 rounds (rather than just plain round down to 0).
Arcane Guyver
05-02-07, 12:20 PM Meh, I remembered the rule wrong. It FUNCTIONS like natural healing, but isn't reliant upon natural healing. Therefore anyone can gain the benefit of fast healing, as long as they aren't dying (or have stabilized without help).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kaladon7779 04-02-07, 08:04 AM	ok there's a spell called Vigor from the healing domain and when cast it gives the person effect of Fast Healing 2, does the 50% penalty effect on this spell also? if so could you please explain how it effects it?
Nundahl 04-02-07, 10:21 AM	Well, to begin, I think you're a bit confused with your source. The Healing Domain contains no such spell. Vigor does exist in Spell Compendium and Complete Divine I understand with what little research I've just done on the spell, but not having the spell in front of me doesn't allow me to give an absolute yes or no answer. However, that being said I can tell you everything you need to know. Assuming you're asking if 'forged are effected by the lack of healing ability, well, it comes down to the school. If Vigor falls under Conjuration [Healing], then yes. If not, no. Simple as that. Check your material, see what it says. -Nundahl
Kaladon7779 04-02-07, 11:56 AM	Vigor(CDiv p186)(DR324 p103)+ <Conj(heal), VS, 1StdAct, Touch, 10rnd + 1rnd per level (max 25rnds total)> – Touched living creature gains Fast Healing 2.
DarkWarriorKarg 04-02-07, 12:25 PM	Vigor(CDiv p186)(DR324 p103)+ <Conj(heal), VS, 1StdAct, Touch, 10rnd + 1rnd per level (max 25rnds total)> – Touched living creature gains Fast Healing 2. Strictly? For a warforged, same duration, Fast healing 1
goblin_pride 04-02-07, 04:50 PM	Doesn't fast healing increase the speed at which you heal? Since warforged don't heal at all, I would think that increasing the speed of their healing would be completely and thoroughly pointless. You don't heal naturally to begin with, but now you don't heal even faster.
DarkWarriorKarg 04-02-07, 05:44 PM	Doesn't fast healing increase the speed at which you heal? Since warforged don't heal at all, I would think that increasing the speed of their healing would be completely and thoroughly pointless. You don't heal naturally to begin with, but now you don't heal even faster. Not really... other wise some undead would not be able to have it (vampires, for instance). Besides, the spell grants fast healing, which is not normal healing.
Elvenshae 04-03-07, 05:16 PM	ok there's a spell called Vigor from the healing domain and when cast it gives the person effect of Fast Healing 2, does the 50% penalty effect on this spell also? if so could you please explain how it effects it? Strictly, Vigor is a spell from the Conjuration (Healing) school which does not heal any damage. It confers a special ability. As such, it's no different from a spell which grants blindsight or scent. Therefore, normal warforged's partial immunity to healing doesn't affect it.
UnderworldLord 04-03-07, 06:14 PM	I'd go with darkwarriorkarg on this one. Its conjuration [healing], grants the special ability to heal over time. Plus, its the least rules lawyer'd way to use it, and let it still work. To answer Goblin_Pride's way of looking at it, it increases the speed at which they heal from 0 (none at all) to fast healing 1.
Elderich 04-05-07, 01:45 PM	Strictly, Vigor is a spell from the Conjuration (Healing) school which does not heal any damage. It confers a special ability. As such, it's no different from a spell which grants blindsight or scent. Therefore, normal warforged's partial immunity to healing doesn't affect it.Interesting... However the granted special ability does heal, and come from a spell in the heal subschool, thus it seems to meet the requirements of the restriction. Now I am AFB ATM, so an examination of the language if the restriction would be in order.
Geregald 04-30-07, 12:55 PM	Strictly? For a warforged, same duration, Fast healing 1 Agreeing with DWK here for the following reasons: 1) Fast Healing is not the same as natural healing, which all characters (minus constructs, living constructs, and some undead) have. "Healing" refers to natural hitpoint recovery for rest, whereas "Fast Healing" is a magically conferred ability. 2) "Healing" from rest presumably relies on a metabolism and the reconstruction of cells. Yes I know, using scientific explanations in D&D or Eberron is hazardous, but this is derived from the RAW for all other races & monsters: Those that would have a metabolism, immune systems, etc heal naturally whereas those without do not. "Fast Healing" magically restores a number of hitpoints equal to the respective spell/number; this is not an enhancement to normal "Healing," it is a separate effect. 3) Spells that grant "Fast Healing" are labelled with the [Healing] subschool, subjecting them to the limitation on natural healing unless, of course the Warforged has 3 levels of Reforged PrC, removing this limitation. -Geregald
BlackTiger 05-01-07, 08:52 PM	I'm inclined to agree that it halves the rate of fast healing, which is all fine and good for Vigor. But the real question is.... What about Lesser Vigor, and Fast Healing 1?
Geregald 05-02-07, 12:25 AM	I'm inclined to agree that it halves the rate of fast healing, which is all fine and good for Vigor. But the real question is.... What about Lesser Vigor, and Fast Healing 1? Well... Halving Lesser Vigor would put it at 0.5 Rounding down would cause No Effect Rounding up would cause it to have the same effect as Vigor Rounding up would mean there's never a reason to use a higher-level spellslot for Vigor on a Warforged Therefore, rounding up makes Lesser Vigor overpowered on a warforged, since a lower-level spell retains the function of a higher-level spell SOLUTION: Make Lesser Vigor heal the Warforged for 1hp every-other turn, as if it were actually affected by Fast Healing 1/2. Voila. -Geregald
Arcane Guyver 05-02-07, 12:50 AM	The way I read it, it looks like Goblin Pride's got this one right. The vigor spells really should have no effect on warforged, without some houseruling. Other creatures with Fast Healing have it built-in as specific exceptions.
Grumgarr 05-02-07, 09:29 AM	Vigor grants the Fast Healing ability (which no ECL-0 PC race gets) and has no relationship with the affected creature's 'natural' rate of healing, so I wouldn't deny it to Warforged. It's a Conjuration (Healing) effect, so yes, it ought to be half as effective as normal, but I don't see any reason to deny Warforged some benefit. They're difficult enough to heal as it is. I'd allow Lesser Vigor to heal 1 per 2 rounds (rather than just plain round down to 0).
Arcane Guyver 05-02-07, 12:20 PM	Meh, I remembered the rule wrong. It FUNCTIONS like natural healing, but isn't reliant upon natural healing. Therefore anyone can gain the benefit of fast healing, as long as they aren't dying (or have stabilized without help).