Warforged Houserules...broken? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warforged Houserules...broken? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheNatealator
06-20-07, 11:17 PM So my DM is starting a new campaign and is letting me play a Warforged Artificer with some proposed alterations (It's a mostly core/shipwrecked campaign). Does this seem fair? (They're called Golumns now).

Instead of Composite Plating (no feats required, this is what every golumn gets, and the Body feats (adamantine, mithral) are not allowed):
DR 5/piercing or bludgeoning
receives +2 piercing damage
+1 AC (enchantable)
can wear armor if specifically made for it
0% ASF
Hardness 1

There are 2 other kinds of golumns, too, and the type of DR and damage succeptibility gets shuffled around, and they don't get the +1 AC, so I'm definitely being this kind.

He also decided to change the repair mechanic. Other Craft skills don't work. I'm not sure if it's equivalent to the way it is in the ECS, but I also doubt I'll need to use it being an artificer and all.

Craft (Golumnmaking): Trained (Int)

Class skills for Wizard, Artificer

Golumns (pronounced Gulooms) were invented 200 years ago by two brothers: an aritificer and a wizard. A golumn has a far advantage over its cousin, the Gollum, in that it is far cheaper to produce. Golumns run on Eco, and when first created can do little more than move. The real business of Golumncraft is in programming Goulums. A goulumn cannot process actions. If you told a golumn fresh off the presses to sweep a floor, it would look at you and say “CANT” The Golumncraft skill can be used as a handle animal skill to teach a Golumn a trick, with modifications depending on the quality of golumn. This skill can only be used to create a golumn if you have the Craft Construct feat.
Golumncraft lets you repair Golumns as if you had the Craft Construct feat. You can repair 2 hp/hour work, with a DC 25 you can repair at 5 hp/hour work. Because golumns are cheaper to produce, it costs 5gp/hitPoint repaired. A DC 10 + number of hit points repaired reduces the cost to 1 gp, and if this check is beaten by 10 or more the cost is negated.
While a golumn is being repaired, it takes a -4 to all checks, is flat footed, and takes a temporary -5 to its own hit points. This cannot reduce its hit points below 1.

Finally, he has banned Wand Sheath. I know he can do whatever he wants, but is there a way I can convince him to let me cast from a wand as if quick-draw'ed, even in a zone of silence? It's not that big a deal, I think I can convince him to let me have the sheath, but I'd still be affected by the zone of silence...

So, please reply if you think this is fair/unfair or have suggestions of what should change (more/less DR, something else to sub for composite plating), and most importantly, why, because I need to convince my DM of whatever changes to his world I would like him to make.
Alex_
06-21-07, 10:58 PM I don't know what the DM is doing, but the new options replacing composite armor and the benefits he put in its place are very unbalanced. DR5 vs slashing weapons is pretty powerful, as is a bonus to piercing damage, AND Hardness (which is DR against most stuff), and 0% arcane spell failure for FREE at first level?

No, not balanced at all.

I would need a full statblock on the "Golumns" to make any further comments. Are theystill considered Living Constructs? Do they have Int scores? Did they change any of the racial traits?

As far as Quick Drawing a wand, I believe this is possible if the casting time of the spell in the wand is one standard action or less. A zone of silence shouldn't matter since you don't need to be able to speak to use a wand.

Given how radical and unbalanced their changes were, I question their experience with/understanding of the game. I would advise you to advise them to just stick with the published rules. They can change the name, the flavor, the history, etc, but just leave modifying the mechanics out of it.
The White Sorcerer
06-21-07, 11:50 PM a bonus to piercing damage

It's a bonus from piercing damage, so they take an additional 2 points of damage from piercing weapons. At least that's how I read it.
TheNatealator
06-22-07, 12:29 AM Right, bonus from piercing damage.

Everything not mentioned is "as Warforged". And he has no prior experience with Eberron, and not much more with Core Rules. We're playing right now in a chat room, and my DR hasn't entered into things, although I am making use of the free armor slot by having studded leather (AC stacks, because it's natural armor). It hasn't entered into play yet, because the first guy we faced had a short sword (piercing damage), so I took a 5' step back, cast Weapon Augmentation with an AP, next round stepped up, rolled 17+4 for attack, then 8+3+5+5 for damage. (Now we seem to be fighting someone invisible because one of our characters was stupid and raced into a suspicious room).

I agree, it's very unbalancing in my favor, and I'd rather not outshine the rest of the party. Is there any way to work with his system, or should I convince him to go back to ECS rules? If so, what can I do to increase my AC at 1st level without taking a feat?
Cifer
06-22-07, 11:18 AM If so, what can I do to increase my AC at 1st level without taking a feat?
Use a shield, same as everyone else. Otherwise, I'd really suggest using a body feat - it's basically the most important feat you can have at first level.
Alex_
06-22-07, 04:45 PM Right, bonus from piercing damage.

And he has no prior experience with Eberron, and not much more with Core Rules.

If you're not familiar with the rules, then don't mess with them. Only start making up your own houserules, especially if you want to really redefine stuff mechanically, once you've played the game for a while and understand from experience how they can impact the game.

We're playing right now in a chat room, and my DR hasn't entered into things, although I am making use of the free armor slot by having studded leather (AC stacks, because it's natural armor).

Warforged can't wear armor. The material on their body takes up the space that would otherwise be occupied by armor/robes, and does NOT count as natural armor.

This would be another problem. Your body is echantable, and if you wear Leather armor, that can be enchanted to. So it's like you're wearing 2 sets of armor.

I agree, it's very unbalancing in my favor, and I'd rather not outshine the rest of the party. Is there any way to work with his system, or should I convince him to go back to ECS rules? If so, what can I do to increase my AC at 1st level without taking a feat?

Convince him to go back to the ECS. Not only because you don't want your character to be unbalanced, but unbalancing stuff can really throw off the game for everyone. Encounters that the DM wanted to be fun and challenging become laughably easy, throwing plans awry. Stuff that was supposed to be easy results in total party wipes. Rules that you make up and never right down, or constantly forget, means lots of flipping around for references, which can slow stuff down.

And a D&D game is often slow enough already, and goes even more slowly when you're playing over the internet.
ArcTan
06-22-07, 05:22 PM Just as an aside, "Gollum" is the creepy schizophrenic mutant hobbit from Tolkien. "Golems" are the robot-like constructs. It's important not to get them mixed up, or else terrible misunderstandings could arise. (The end of the book would've gone very differently if Gollum had been a Huge monster with DR 15/adamantine.)

Also, I agree with everyone who says that going crazy inventing new ideas is a terrible way to start playing the game if you're not familiar with the rules.
OgreBane99
06-22-07, 05:27 PM As far as Quick Drawing a wand, I believe this is possible if the casting time of the spell in the wand is one standard action or less. A zone of silence shouldn't matter since you don't need to be able to speak to use a wand.
Ummmm... aren't wands command activated, hence needing to speak to activate them?

The most unbalanced thing I think (besides the unusual mechanics of DR and hardness) is having "enchantable natural armor" and being able to wear normal armor. Extremely unfair.
Alex_
06-22-07, 07:37 PM Wands are spell trigger activated, not command activated. But my mistake, as trigger items DO require you to speak. You have to be able to cast the spell in the item, and must be able to speak one word aloud to activae it.

So nevermind, no wands in a cone of silence.
gensuke626
06-22-07, 08:24 PM Unless the "Golumn" has a wand sheath....:rolleyes:
Alex_
06-22-07, 08:33 PM Unless the "Golumn" has a wand sheath....:rolleyes:

The DM banned those. The player was looking for alternate options.
gensuke626
06-22-07, 08:56 PM The DM banned those. The player was looking for alternate options.

Eep! That'll teach me to post without getting some Soda and meat into my system.

I can't say much more then. I just don't understand why this guy's DM would do all these things...
AkumaDaimyo
06-23-07, 06:00 AM I think this DM has no idea how Warforged really work at all.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheNatealator 06-20-07, 11:17 PM	So my DM is starting a new campaign and is letting me play a Warforged Artificer with some proposed alterations (It's a mostly core/shipwrecked campaign). Does this seem fair? (They're called Golumns now). Instead of Composite Plating (no feats required, this is what every golumn gets, and the Body feats (adamantine, mithral) are not allowed): DR 5/piercing or bludgeoning receives +2 piercing damage +1 AC (enchantable) can wear armor if specifically made for it 0% ASF Hardness 1 There are 2 other kinds of golumns, too, and the type of DR and damage succeptibility gets shuffled around, and they don't get the +1 AC, so I'm definitely being this kind. He also decided to change the repair mechanic. Other Craft skills don't work. I'm not sure if it's equivalent to the way it is in the ECS, but I also doubt I'll need to use it being an artificer and all. Craft (Golumnmaking): Trained (Int) Class skills for Wizard, Artificer Golumns (pronounced Gulooms) were invented 200 years ago by two brothers: an aritificer and a wizard. A golumn has a far advantage over its cousin, the Gollum, in that it is far cheaper to produce. Golumns run on Eco, and when first created can do little more than move. The real business of Golumncraft is in programming Goulums. A goulumn cannot process actions. If you told a golumn fresh off the presses to sweep a floor, it would look at you and say “CANT” The Golumncraft skill can be used as a handle animal skill to teach a Golumn a trick, with modifications depending on the quality of golumn. This skill can only be used to create a golumn if you have the Craft Construct feat. Golumncraft lets you repair Golumns as if you had the Craft Construct feat. You can repair 2 hp/hour work, with a DC 25 you can repair at 5 hp/hour work. Because golumns are cheaper to produce, it costs 5gp/hitPoint repaired. A DC 10 + number of hit points repaired reduces the cost to 1 gp, and if this check is beaten by 10 or more the cost is negated. While a golumn is being repaired, it takes a -4 to all checks, is flat footed, and takes a temporary -5 to its own hit points. This cannot reduce its hit points below 1. Finally, he has banned Wand Sheath. I know he can do whatever he wants, but is there a way I can convince him to let me cast from a wand as if quick-draw'ed, even in a zone of silence? It's not that big a deal, I think I can convince him to let me have the sheath, but I'd still be affected by the zone of silence... So, please reply if you think this is fair/unfair or have suggestions of what should change (more/less DR, something else to sub for composite plating), and most importantly, why, because I need to convince my DM of whatever changes to his world I would like him to make.
Alex_ 06-21-07, 10:58 PM	I don't know what the DM is doing, but the new options replacing composite armor and the benefits he put in its place are very unbalanced. DR5 vs slashing weapons is pretty powerful, as is a bonus to piercing damage, AND Hardness (which is DR against most stuff), and 0% arcane spell failure for FREE at first level? No, not balanced at all. I would need a full statblock on the "Golumns" to make any further comments. Are theystill considered Living Constructs? Do they have Int scores? Did they change any of the racial traits? As far as Quick Drawing a wand, I believe this is possible if the casting time of the spell in the wand is one standard action or less. A zone of silence shouldn't matter since you don't need to be able to speak to use a wand. Given how radical and unbalanced their changes were, I question their experience with/understanding of the game. I would advise you to advise them to just stick with the published rules. They can change the name, the flavor, the history, etc, but just leave modifying the mechanics out of it.
The White Sorcerer 06-21-07, 11:50 PM	a bonus to piercing damage It's a bonus from piercing damage, so they take an additional 2 points of damage from piercing weapons. At least that's how I read it.
TheNatealator 06-22-07, 12:29 AM	Right, bonus from piercing damage. Everything not mentioned is "as Warforged". And he has no prior experience with Eberron, and not much more with Core Rules. We're playing right now in a chat room, and my DR hasn't entered into things, although I am making use of the free armor slot by having studded leather (AC stacks, because it's natural armor). It hasn't entered into play yet, because the first guy we faced had a short sword (piercing damage), so I took a 5' step back, cast Weapon Augmentation with an AP, next round stepped up, rolled 17+4 for attack, then 8+3+5+5 for damage. (Now we seem to be fighting someone invisible because one of our characters was stupid and raced into a suspicious room). I agree, it's very unbalancing in my favor, and I'd rather not outshine the rest of the party. Is there any way to work with his system, or should I convince him to go back to ECS rules? If so, what can I do to increase my AC at 1st level without taking a feat?
Cifer 06-22-07, 11:18 AM	If so, what can I do to increase my AC at 1st level without taking a feat? Use a shield, same as everyone else. Otherwise, I'd really suggest using a body feat - it's basically the most important feat you can have at first level.
Alex_ 06-22-07, 04:45 PM	Right, bonus from piercing damage. And he has no prior experience with Eberron, and not much more with Core Rules. If you're not familiar with the rules, then don't mess with them. Only start making up your own houserules, especially if you want to really redefine stuff mechanically, once you've played the game for a while and understand from experience how they can impact the game. We're playing right now in a chat room, and my DR hasn't entered into things, although I am making use of the free armor slot by having studded leather (AC stacks, because it's natural armor). Warforged can't wear armor. The material on their body takes up the space that would otherwise be occupied by armor/robes, and does NOT count as natural armor. This would be another problem. Your body is echantable, and if you wear Leather armor, that can be enchanted to. So it's like you're wearing 2 sets of armor. I agree, it's very unbalancing in my favor, and I'd rather not outshine the rest of the party. Is there any way to work with his system, or should I convince him to go back to ECS rules? If so, what can I do to increase my AC at 1st level without taking a feat? Convince him to go back to the ECS. Not only because you don't want your character to be unbalanced, but unbalancing stuff can really throw off the game for everyone. Encounters that the DM wanted to be fun and challenging become laughably easy, throwing plans awry. Stuff that was supposed to be easy results in total party wipes. Rules that you make up and never right down, or constantly forget, means lots of flipping around for references, which can slow stuff down. And a D&D game is often slow enough already, and goes even more slowly when you're playing over the internet.
ArcTan 06-22-07, 05:22 PM	Just as an aside, "Gollum" is the creepy schizophrenic mutant hobbit from Tolkien. "Golems" are the robot-like constructs. It's important not to get them mixed up, or else terrible misunderstandings could arise. (The end of the book would've gone very differently if Gollum had been a Huge monster with DR 15/adamantine.) Also, I agree with everyone who says that going crazy inventing new ideas is a terrible way to start playing the game if you're not familiar with the rules.
OgreBane99 06-22-07, 05:27 PM	As far as Quick Drawing a wand, I believe this is possible if the casting time of the spell in the wand is one standard action or less. A zone of silence shouldn't matter since you don't need to be able to speak to use a wand. Ummmm... aren't wands command activated, hence needing to speak to activate them? The most unbalanced thing I think (besides the unusual mechanics of DR and hardness) is having "enchantable natural armor" and being able to wear normal armor. Extremely unfair.
Alex_ 06-22-07, 07:37 PM	Wands are spell trigger activated, not command activated. But my mistake, as trigger items DO require you to speak. You have to be able to cast the spell in the item, and must be able to speak one word aloud to activae it. So nevermind, no wands in a cone of silence.
gensuke626 06-22-07, 08:24 PM	Unless the "Golumn" has a wand sheath....:rolleyes:
Alex_ 06-22-07, 08:33 PM	Unless the "Golumn" has a wand sheath....:rolleyes: The DM banned those. The player was looking for alternate options.
gensuke626 06-22-07, 08:56 PM	The DM banned those. The player was looking for alternate options. Eep! That'll teach me to post without getting some Soda and meat into my system. I can't say much more then. I just don't understand why this guy's DM would do all these things...
AkumaDaimyo 06-23-07, 06:00 AM	I think this DM has no idea how Warforged really work at all.