Post/Author/DateTime	Post
warforged51092 09-13-07, 07:45 PM	Just for curiositie's sake, is a warforged sorcerer or warlock possible? I mean, sorcerers have some draconic blood in them and warlocks are descended from fiends. p.s. if a warforged to the favored soul class would the wings be organic (actual feathers/leathery skin membrane) or construct-like (wooden or metal).
warforged51092 09-13-07, 07:45 PM	I apologize for the poor spelling.
LoneStranger 09-13-07, 07:55 PM	Actually you only misspelled curiousity so that's not bad at all. As far as being able to take those classes from my understanding those are mainly suggestions as to how that happens, not hard and fast rules. Of course there's nothing to keep you from including something in the character history mentioning experiments being done with dragon's blood and etc. Just make sure your DM knows what you're planning to do so there would be fewer surprises.
Moosh Nailo 09-13-07, 08:00 PM	They are most definitely possible! Just as possible as a human renegade mastermaker, or a gnome fighter. Remember the most important warforged rule; -Unless otherwise stated in the description, treat warforged just like you would anyone else. The dragon's blood for sorcerers, and fiend-powered warlocks are just flavour. You should feel free to change them up in any way you see fit. Even before the warforged showed up, people have been thinking up alternate sources of power for both of those classes. Celestial, the Far Realm, Fey, anything. I remember reading a description on the boards of someone designing a warforged warlock with a fiend's essence captured within it, or one that was built as a mobile turret for war, fresh from the forge (they just ignored fiendish references in the fluff text). None of that changes the crunch in the least. Enjoy
Rechan 09-13-07, 08:34 PM	Given that in Eberron, Dragons aren't humping everything six ways from sideways, sorcerers would be rarer. Or there would just be more things that cause sorcerers. Fey ancestry. Exposure to manifest zones. Exposure to Khyber radiation/Rajah imprisoned site. Making "Pacts" with magical creatures like fiends, fey, or outsiders of another plane. The same goes for warlocks; Complete Arcane even suggests, in the background info for Warlocks, that their powers could come from Fey or elemental sources. In the game I run, there's a warlock PC whose powers spring from her aberrant mark. In a game I played in, we had a kitsune sorcerer (one of the Oriental Adventures races that escapes me who could change shapes and were inherently fey). With the talk of Tieflings in 4th edition, Keith suggested that Tieflings in Eberron may not come from Fiend/human relations, but children who are merely born in manifest zones/when the planes are in alignment with the Material. So you have tieflings tied to Shavarath who are warlike, tieflings tied to Fernia who are pyros, and tiefs tied to Mabar who are scheming and sinister.
Edymnion 09-13-07, 08:54 PM	Just for curiositie's sake, is a warforged sorcerer or warlock possible? I mean, sorcerers have some draconic blood in them and warlocks are descended from fiends.Show me where those are in the prereqs to take the class. Those are just suggested flavor options, they are no more prereqs than "You must have been in a thieve's guild for 5 years" is a prereq for being a Rogue.
warforged51092 09-13-07, 09:03 PM	Thank you all very much. HaHa warforged with an eldritch blast :D
Salla 09-14-07, 10:19 PM	a kitsune sorcerer (one of the Oriental Adventures races that escapes me who could change shapes and were inherently fey). It's a fox hengeyokai, and they aren't fey, they're Humanoid (Shapechanger) type.
Kid SixXx 09-19-07, 07:18 AM	It's a fox hengeyokai, and they aren't fey, they're Humanoid (Shapechanger) type. Yep, the "fey" in the older OA campaign were the Spirit Folk
OctaviusIII 09-21-07, 04:26 PM	Thank you all very much. HaHa warforged with an eldritch blast :D Oh I've played a warforged with an eldritch blast. He was awesome. How? My earlier warforged fighter/kensai got crushed, but he "had a destiny" and his spirit was shunted into the body of a warforged that was birthed just as the fighter died. Dark powers wanted to corrupt him, but the spirit of the coatl that chose me intervened, causing me to be good rather than evil. So, I'm demon-touched.
eehamburg 09-21-07, 04:45 PM	Given that in Eberron, Dragons aren't humping everything six ways from sideways, sorcerers would be rarer. Or there would just be more things that cause sorcerers. Fey ancestry. Exposure to manifest zones. Exposure to Khyber radiation/Rajah imprisoned site. Making "Pacts" with magical creatures like fiends, fey, or outsiders of another plane. The same goes for warlocks; Complete Arcane even suggests, in the background info for Warlocks, that their powers could come from Fey or elemental sources. Isn't it possible that sorcerors and warlocks gain their abilities from naturally being able to tap into magic (as in it being innate) as opposed to praying for it or preparing spells for it?
Rechan 09-22-07, 09:45 PM	Isn't it possible that sorcerors and warlocks gain their abilities from naturally being able to tap into magic (as in it being innate) as opposed to praying for it or preparing spells for it? Define what you mean for "Naturally tapping into". As in, tapping into magic Inside themselves, or tapping into magic Outside of themselves? I basically see Arcane magic users like funnels or lightning rods. There's Power Out There that they draw in, then use the power to the desired effect. Sorcerers could be doing it out of instinct and then general practice, rather than a wizard's well-founded method and established technique. Which doesn't differ much from Clerics being channelers of magic either, but I think for them, it's more colored by their Beliefs than anything. It really differentiates from psionics, which I consider 'power From the Self" rather than "Power from outside, used inside".
Vharuck 09-25-07, 09:01 AM	Yeah, arcane power permeates the world. Wizards harness and manipulate it to their wills by learning its properties then creating formulae (spells in a spellbook) which they can use. They're analogous to modern chemists who use scientific laws and theories (spells) to make chemical X (arcane power) into chemical Y (arcane effect desired). This is why they use Intelligence to cast. Sorcerers utilize the same arcane power wizards do. It's the power intrinsic to the world around them. However, wizards simply exploit arcane laws to indirectly act out their will. Sorcerers simply exert their will on the world. Sorcerers are analogous to orators who use their personalities to cause a crowd (arcane power) to perform actions (spells). This is why they use Charisma to cast. Then again, that's my opinion and personal take.
eehamburg 09-25-07, 10:09 AM	Not a bad opinion or take on it. I always felt that magic should be handled like this: wizards: practice and technique to get magic sorcerors: exerts will to get magic clerics: prays to get magic druids: communes with nature to get magic psionics: creates the magic from within
ZeroSD 09-26-07, 10:17 PM	I could easily see a Warforged Warlock/Sorcerer being a glitchy creation- perhaps made of an experiment or accident, she was imbuded with too much magic at creation, or another plane crossed over Eberron at the moment of creation and the 'forged gained an odd connection to it she could draw power off of.
R4za 10-05-07, 01:29 PM	Hmm, even taking the flavor in full regard, it should be possible. The warlock's easy, really. Warlocks flavour is a 'bargain' power, a gift from fey or deamons or other magical species, either granted to the character directly or passed on by ancestry. A warlock warforged could be, I dunno, an experimental warforged build with elemental binding involved, or one where the creators attempted to bind a deamon like they would an elemental. Sorcerer's a bit more difficult. In eberon, sorcerers seem to be more about the three creator dragons and the draconic legacy than about the dragon species as it exists, and if we accept that flavor as true it, it would be easy to imaginable that a creature that cannot gain a dragonmark or possess blood from one that can cannot be a sorcerer. Still, creativity goes a long way. Any use of dragonshard magic in their creation, for example, would make a perfect excuse.
Edymnion 10-06-07, 03:31 PM	Sorcerer's a bit more difficult. In eberon, sorcerers seem to be more about the three creator dragons and the draconic legacy than about the dragon species as it exists, and if we accept that flavor as true it, it would be easy to imaginable that a creature that cannot gain a dragonmark or possess blood from one that can cannot be a sorcerer. Still, creativity goes a long way. Any use of dragonshard magic in their creation, for example, would make a perfect excuse.I'd definately be opposed to that, as you just ruled that no non-phb race can ever be a sorcerer. I also wouldn't require any "dragonshards used in the creation" thing, as I generally don't like the idea of "just throw some extra stuff in there and you get whatever kind of warforged you want", mainly because Cannith wasn't supposed to have that level of fine control over the process. Warforged are innately magical beings, they wouldn't exist without magic. Its not really that strange, IMO, to just say that a Warforged Sorcerer is capable of tapping into the power that animates it in the same way a Human Psion taps into the power of their mind. Its something that all WF/Humans have, and that with the proper training an mindset any WF/Human could develop.
LoneStranger 10-07-07, 01:49 AM	I think ZeroSD's idea is pretty good actually. The Warforged had too much magic dumped into him at the time of creation which became the ability to cast spells whichever way you'd wind up doing (wizard, cleric, etc.). It's certainly as good a story idea as any of them out there, and better than some as I see it.
18DELTA 10-08-07, 12:43 AM	This is a very interesting discussion. Very interesting indeed.:cool:
Salla 10-08-07, 11:42 AM	I also wouldn't require any "dragonshards used in the creation" thing, as I generally don't like the idea of "just throw some extra stuff in there and you get whatever kind of warforged you want", mainly because Cannith wasn't supposed to have that level of fine control over the process. It wouldn't necessarily be a controlled process. More of an experimental, "Let's stick this thing in there and see what happens." It worked for Dr. Frankenstein. Sort of.
JulesCARV 10-08-07, 01:34 PM	Warlock "What went wrong this time?" the slim, mithral-clad warforged said. The adamantine warforged was a foot taller and probably twice the weight of its interrogator, but nonetheless seemed obsequeous and ashamed: "when we ran the creation forge... it worked, physically. The new warforged was physically well-formed -- a mithral-bodied warforged. Yet..." "Yet?" "Yet it was mad, and wielded strange powers. As soon as it awoke, when I explained to it that it would serve the Lord of Blades, it said it would serve no one but itself. It was... angry, violent, irrational." "Yes?" "When I refused to let it leave, sent a blast of magic energy at me; it wounded me. Then it said, 'do you know what I am? I am no mere collection of parts assembled by some broken down, half-understood bit of eldritch machinery. Some say the gods have abandoned this land, but the Shadow knows better, and has chosen me to be the bearer of his gifts. Now let me leave.' Maybe it wasn't exactly that, but it was something like that. The Shadow -- some sort of fleshy superstition, right?" "Indeed." "I couldn't contain it. It escaped. I'm sorry." The slim, mithral warforged paused contemplatively. "It is strange how among those warforged who come from our forged most perfectly formed in body tend toward the greatest madness in their minds. It makes me wonder whether perhaps their is some nefarious force -- something that guides their bodies to integrity in spite of the poor operation of our forge and their minds to madness. Well, the Lord of Blades will be pleased with neither of us. We'd better get to work divining that rogue warforged's location."
R4za 10-08-07, 10:13 PM	I'd definately be opposed to that, as you just ruled that no non-phb race can ever be a sorcerer. I also wouldn't require any "dragonshards used in the creation" thing, as I generally don't like the idea of "just throw some extra stuff in there and you get whatever kind of warforged you want", mainly because Cannith wasn't supposed to have that level of fine control over the process. Warforged are innately magical beings, they wouldn't exist without magic. Its not really that strange, IMO, to just say that a Warforged Sorcerer is capable of tapping into the power that animates it in the same way a Human Psion taps into the power of their mind. Its something that all WF/Humans have, and that with the proper training an mindset any WF/Human could develop. Mmm, I'm not at all suggestion DM rulings against non-dragonmarked sorcerers, just providing a background option to explain it for the player. I also posed the condition 'If we assume this flavor as exclusively true', which needs not be done at all (and in fact is adviced against by the books). We're not talking about 'requiring' anything, just optional flavor. Your "It's some abstract potential all humans and WF have" idea is optional flavor as well, practical for the sake of simplicity and player freedom, but ultimately boring because it doesn't actually say or explain anything at all. If it can be improved upon without hindering players' ability to play their prefered characters, then I'd say that's a good thing.
Edymnion 10-09-07, 01:14 PM	Mmm, I'm not at all suggestion DM rulings against non-dragonmarked sorcerers, just providing a background option to explain it for the player.I'm going based off of this:if we accept that flavor as true it, it would be easy to imaginable that a creature that cannot gain a dragonmark or possess blood from one that can cannot be a sorcerer.Which, to me, basically says "If we say thats true, only PHB races or creatures descended from PHB races can be sorcerers." Which is why I don't like that idea, I like leaving that option open for any NPC I like, without worrying about his race or the odds of him having the right ancestor or not.