Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jeebus2010 09-24-07, 11:52 PM	I'm thinking of home brewing a Wf sub-race that can switch parts of it's body for other based on it's need. body parts will be treated as treasure. and will provide an ability bonus/penalty based on which part (ie legs are +2 dex/- 2 Con flexable but a bit on the fragile side)
urklore 09-25-07, 01:19 AM	Interesting concept. Can you send me your notes and data?
Vharuck 09-25-07, 09:04 AM	Why not make it a body feat? Have it allow them not only to switch limb parts, but also normal armored body types. The balancing factor would be that they have to buy the parts.
Bossemeyer 09-25-07, 10:06 AM	Yes, a Feat would follow the theme with WF, like the "psionic" sub race being a feat... the Interchangeable would be too... but if you think about it warforge already have a interchangeable system... Bigger fist, Sword, Crossbow... Centaur Legs, Wings... i wouldn't find it so bad to say give a Face Item that gives a Bit... Hands that give claws or boots that give them more animal like feet for running and jumping... i guess what i am saying is that if you can make a Bag of Holding Embedded Components for a Warforge and Call him Bender (i want to play this concept so bad)... why make a new Sub race for a race that is already Far more versatile then any of then race (except maybe a changeling with the right class/PrC)
Jeebus2010 09-25-07, 11:39 AM	Interesting concept. Can you send me your notes and data? could but i don`t have any notes/data but I'll be updating the concept on here with specifics now that there's been interest shown. lets see Arms: +2 str slightly larger and more cumbersome then the standard set maybe a -2 Dex or a hit penalty and possibly count as large for the perpus of unarmed damage and slam attack? Legs: +2 Dex and +10 Movement,- 2 str, or Con (players choice) built for those times when agility and speed are needed more then anything else Torso: requires asistance much like plate but give an extra +2 Con, it`s heavier and more solid then the standard torso i`m thinking maybe a -2 dex penalty to keep things balanced? thats the perpous of the penalties by the way to keep a bit of balance and flavor, a fast WF isn't gunna be as tough as a bigger one or something i dunno this is still in concept any input is welcome
Jeebus2010 09-25-07, 02:10 PM	more for the inter-changeable parts! agiant their to be treated as treasure along the lines of weapons /armor (cuz they can have enchanments lke armor and i think u could infuse their fists with somthing) but anyways for the arms i thoght up in my last post for being larger they would not stack with a battle fist for the size increase (Huge fists? i don`t think so not on a medium WF he'd fall over) you can as well find/make spiked variants as well as body parts that give different bonuses/penalties, i`m not making anything solid it`s all customizable (thats how rpg's are going these days, to customize anything possible :P)
TiwazTyrsfist 09-25-07, 02:49 PM	So, I kind of feel that this would be redundant. Just create new warforged components. Advanced components could easily replace/subsume existing body parts to increase power in this manner. In short, rather than create a new subrace of warforged and say, These guys can use these interchangeable parts, I would simply create the parts and say, These are new Warforged Components, Any warforged can embed or attack them and use them. Here's an example, just off the top of my head. Spring loaded legs. Embedded component, Legs and feet. This replaces the warforged's normal legs and feet. Many of the tendons and cords are replaces with powerful springs. System: The spring loading grants faster movement and pushing with the legs, increasing land speed by +10, dex by +2, and granting a +8 unamed bonus to jump checks. However, since the legs lack much of the normal support in warforged legs, the legs are weaker. Treat the warforged's strength as 4 less for determining carrying capacity, and carrying a heavy load over stresses the legs, causing the warforged to collapse. It is unable to stand or walk while carrying a heavy load.
Jeebus2010 09-25-07, 03:05 PM	So, I kind of feel that this would be redundant. Just create new warforged components. Advanced components could easily replace/subsume existing body parts to increase power in this manner. In short, rather than create a new subrace of warforged and say, These guys can use these interchangeable parts, I would simply create the parts and say, These are new Warforged Components, Any warforged can embed or attack them and use them. Here's an example, just off the top of my head. Spring loaded legs. Embedded component, Legs and feet. This replaces the warforged's normal legs and feet. Many of the tendons and cords are replaces with powerful springs. System: The spring loading grants faster movement and pushing with the legs, increasing land speed by +10, dex by +2, and granting a +8 unamed bonus to jump checks. However, since the legs lack much of the normal support in warforged legs, the legs are weaker. Treat the warforged's strength as 4 less for determining carrying capacity, and carrying a heavy load over stresses the legs, causing the warforged to collapse. It is unable to stand or walk while carrying a heavy load. awsome! i'll include this idea later when i update agian (i`m on a library computer so i'm not seieng the whole page ) but definatly a great idea using that logic u can take a hand and design it for climbing ; +5,10 or higher depeding on how much it'd be worth and stuff and WF artifcers would get a bonus to the craft checkls required to make new components for warforged (not necesarily magical for skill bonuses and stuff, like the sping loaded legs) so lets see an arm that makes things easier to life with hmm... hydrolics maybe? so a +2 to strength (related) CHECKS (not score ? easier for the mondane to deal with)?
TiwazTyrsfist 09-26-07, 11:45 AM	Well, Also, they should probably be magic items. Like the legs I made? Probably require Craft Wonderous Item, Expedious retreat, and Cat's Grace to craft. So, basically make them just like magic items, but allow some out of normal powers. Here's another idea. Grip Hands Embeded components (Both Hands) These replace the warforged's normal hands. The plams of the hands and inner surfaces of the fingers are covered with tiny angled spines. These spines provide enhanced grip an allow them to both hold onto walls and items more firmly. System: Grants the warforged a climb speed equal to one half it's normal ground speed, and a +8 to climb checks. Also grants a +4 to resist disarm attemps. Creation: Craft Wonderous Item, Spider Climb.
Edymnion 09-27-07, 06:44 PM	Interchangable parts, I wouldn't, because of one little detail. Warforged are not robots. They are living beings, and just because they have metal parts on their bodies does not mean they can just dissassemble themselves whenever they want. They are just like humans, if you cut their arm off, it dies. No amount of bolting a new one on is going to fix that. You could make them grafts, that require expertise and magic to to affix, and that have the standard penalties, but then it would work on WF the same way it would work on a human. For that matter, I don't think you can do interchangable parts even on pure constructs. So, while it could make for some cool stuff, I would personally avoid it because it pushes the WF back down the robot path again, and away from the fact that they are living beings.
LoneStranger 09-28-07, 01:56 AM	I have to agree, everything that's suggested as taking off pieces of a character can be done through components that snap over the feet or arms or whatever.
Jeebus2010 10-01-07, 01:03 AM	no their not robots but they are technically constructs, so they aren't born their made (yes they still are with the LoB, and d'cannith) so it's possible to imagen that a few warforged were built to adapt to any situation and to modify components to body parts just involves a little more work and a bit more money. i'm not suggesting it'd be better then our standard WF but these Warforged would be a "sub race" so to speak. so it's kinda agianst the grain for alota folks but as i said in my first post its a house rule/table rule everyones entitle to their opinion and this is mine so folks if u agree with me don't let the thread die ;)
deathbane 10-01-07, 02:18 AM	Warforged can actually grow and lose parts(reforged and juggernaught). How are you going to explain to your players that a creature that can grow things can just take parts off and put them back on. If a warforged can do it then a person should be able to do it.
Edymnion 10-01-07, 08:59 AM	Warforged can actually grow and lose parts(reforged and juggernaught). How are you going to explain to your players that a creature that can grow things can just take parts off and put them back on. If a warforged can do it then a person should be able to do it.Yes, it makes about as much sense as saying there's a subrace of humans that can take their own arms off and stick somebody else's arms on. WF are not just constructs, they're living constructs. It is the living part that animates them. They're just as much living organic components as they are inert material animated by magic. Make these as WF components, and you'll be fine. But saying they can detatch their own body parts is just going too far in the robot direction, IMO.
Jeebus2010 10-01-07, 03:49 PM	the whole idea behind the "sub-race" was that they were built for adapability, your regualr warforged has a set of static statistics (bonuses to con and penalties to wis and cha), this "build" so to speak will have stats based on what it is equipped with. it will stat with the basic immunities and weaknesses (that all WF have) but it won`t have any ability bonuses or penalties. at level one you could choose to have the same abilities as a regualr wf or you could go down a differnt route, you could have parts that increase yoru int and wis but apply a penalty to a physical stat
deathbane 10-01-07, 04:23 PM	the whole idea behind the "sub-race" was that they were built for adapability, your regualr warforged has a set of static statistics (bonuses to con and penalties to wis and cha), this "build" so to speak will have stats based on what it is equipped with. it will stat with the basic immunities and weaknesses (that all WF have) but it won`t have any ability bonuses or penalties. at level one you could choose to have the same abilities as a regualr wf or you could go down a differnt route, you could have parts that increase yoru int and wis but apply a penalty to a physical stat They are constructs, but you can't just take parts off. If people find a warforged that has parts that don't deteriorate when removed they will probably kill him and sell the metal. The warforged parts are kept alive only as long as they are attached to the body, so unless you make another rules that bypasses that it won't work. I doubt you will find anyone who understands that warforged are living creatures to agree with you.
LoneStranger 10-01-07, 07:38 PM	the whole idea behind the "sub-race" was that they were built for adapability, your regualr warforged has a set of static statistics (bonuses to con and penalties to wis and cha), this "build" so to speak will have stats based on what it is equipped with. it will stat with the basic immunities and weaknesses (that all WF have) but it won`t have any ability bonuses or penalties. at level one you could choose to have the same abilities as a regualr wf or you could go down a differnt route, you could have parts that increase yoru int and wis but apply a penalty to a physical stat After hearing this I'm pretty sure this wouldn't work too well, the reason I say that is there's potentially no mechanic to prevent this sub-race from having a pretty good level adjustment but not having it applied to them. The player could start them off normally but has the ability to give the character an LA of 3, 4, 5, or more by use of the parts but is still just the LA of the sub-race itself. Now I can hear the rebuttal now "but other characters boost themselves up pretty far and no one worries about a level adjustment for them". The problem with that argument is other races put magic items on and get boosts from them. They can wear a belt, get armor that provides effects, have a ring that boosts a stat etc. With the idea here you're swapping out an arm or a leg or a noticable part of the torso. I'm going to have to say this won't work unless I see some notes that this concept has been playtested intently to avoid breaking any power curve.
Kreistor2 10-01-07, 09:10 PM	It's a logical progression of the warforged component concept. Considering a warforged can "grow" spikes at will (which oddly a human cannot do), it's really hard for me to say this is not within any kind of conceptual limit of the magic-tech involved.
deathbane 10-01-07, 09:24 PM	It's a logical progression of the warforged component concept. Considering a warforged can "grow" spikes at will (which oddly a human cannot do), it's really hard for me to say this is not within any kind of conceptual limit of the magic-tech involved. That concept is based on adding weapons, not taking living body parts off. Humans can turn into half-dragons with the right PRC, so the only thing stopping humans from getting spikes is someone making a PrC that allows them to so it.
Kreistor2 10-01-07, 10:18 PM	That concept is based on adding weapons, not taking living body parts off. Humans can turn into half-dragons with the right PRC, so the only thing stopping humans from getting spikes is someone making a PrC that allows them to so it. And how about grafts, then? CHop off a hand and put on a graft. New hand, new abilities. They even make warforged grafts. Isn't this just a warforged graft for a warforged?
deathbane 10-01-07, 11:13 PM	And how about grafts, then? CHop off a hand and put on a graft. New hand, new abilities. They even make warforged grafts. Isn't this just a warforged graft for a warforged? Once a graft of any type whether it is warforged, elemental, or undead is attached to a person it can't just be taken off which is what the OP is trying to do. after searching for the book with wf grafts I don't anything about a book with warforged grafts, but I am sure you can't put it on and take it off just like the other grafts. If he wants to give away free grafts that is one thing, but to say a living being can pull off arms and legs at their leisure is not how they work. I am assuming he is the DM so the final choice is his, and it seems he came here to test the idea, but most people understand that WF are alive, and that when you remove WF parts they deteriorate, so they kills his idea unless he house rules that situation.
Kreistor2 10-02-07, 12:16 AM	Once a graft of any type whether it is warforged, elemental, or undead is attached to a person it can't just be taken off which is what the OP is trying to do. So? It can be chopped off above the current graft site. Regen can restore the original part, then it can be chopped off for a new graft. Painful and masochistic, but it can be done. after searching for the book with wf grafts Faiths of Eberron. I don't anything about a book with warforged grafts, but I am sure you can't put it on and take it off just like the other grafts. If he wants to give away free grafts that is one thing, but to say a living being can pull off arms and legs at their leisure is not how they work. I wasn't. My point was that replacing a limb with a part has a precedent. I am assuming he is the DM so the final choice is his, and it seems he came here to test the idea, but most people understand that WF are alive, and that when you remove WF parts they deteriorate, so they kills his idea unless he house rules that situation. Well, the construct grafting rules disagree with you. All construct grafts coem from a warforged host creature. The removed parts become the graft on the new host. Pg 156. Top of second column, in bold. Starts with "All grafts come from...". A removed warforged body part survives for 7 days before it can no longer be grafted.
deathbane 10-02-07, 01:36 AM	So? It can be chopped off above the current graft site. Regen can restore the original part, then it can be chopped off for a new graft. Painful and masochistic, but it can be done. LOL. That is extreme and I don't think the character is going to go through that. Faiths of Eberron. I don't have that book. I wasn't. My point was that replacing a limb with a part has a precedent. It does have a precedent. I cant argue with that. Well, the construct grafting rules disagree with you. All construct grafts coem from a warforged host creature. The removed parts become the graft on the new host. Pg 156. Top of second column, in bold. Starts with "All grafts come from...". A removed warforged body part survives for 7 days before it can no longer be grafted. I am pretty sure the deterioration is the reason for the 7 day limit, and the problem of switching the parts in and out like a scope for a rifle(just an example) is still not solved. I am sure the part that was taken form a WF donor can't be put back without magic intervention. If he can do that then there is no reason why a PC can't get elf arms added to a human to be quicker, or orc arms to be stronger. There is no difference.
LoneStranger 10-02-07, 02:30 AM	It's a logical progression of the warforged component concept. Considering a warforged can "grow" spikes at will (which oddly a human cannot do), it's really hard for me to say this is not within any kind of conceptual limit of the magic-tech involved. Not entirely, just as warforged can become more resistant to damage and other races have other ways they improve, it's all through feats or magic items or spells or something you can point to and nullify (depending on situation). However the concepts presented here allow a character to effectively re-stat himself as he sees fit. Going into a fight, well time to put on the strength and dexterity parts. Going into a social situation, time for the charisma and intelligence items. And so on and so forth. Most other characters can make some adjustments but not that many.
Edymnion 10-02-07, 12:32 PM	So? It can be chopped off above the current graft site. Regen can restore the original part, then it can be chopped off for a new graft. Painful and masochistic, but it can be done.It also stands to mention that there are penalties you take for having a graft attached. Like loss of mobility or hitpoints. Nothing says those penalties go away after you take the graft off (actually, in most cases, you can't remove the graft without killing the creature its attached to in the first place). So, if you wanna take 4 points of hitpoint drain every time you do this, then go for it. But remember you're also having to pay for these things, and each new graft is going to cost you gold/influence/whatever. And, finally, we are now talking about grafts that *ANYBODY* can use. Not just warforged. I wasn't. My point was that replacing a limb with a part has a precedent.Replacing, yes. Interchangable parts you just whip on and off like a pair of shoes, no. Things like grafts and the Arm of Nyr become part of the character, and don't really count as items anymore. But here, this should be the nail in the coffin that kills this idea. If its an item, and not part of the creature, then it is vulnerable to Dispel Magic and Anti-Magic Fields. Which means any half-way intelligent spellcaster (IE, most of them), are simply going to do a targetted dispel at your interchangable legs, which will supress the magic and make you fall on your butt helpless for what, 1d4 rounds? Only way to avoid that is to have it be part of the creature, and if its part of the creature, you cannot remove it without doing damage to said creature, and requiring Regeneration to put it back on. Basically, there's nothing a WF can do along this route that a human could not also do.
Kreistor2 10-02-07, 03:01 PM	But here, this should be the nail in the coffin that kills this idea. And who made you, or anyone else here, the Guardian of Eberron? Why does this idea need a nail in its coffin in the first place? Is the game not going to be fun for him? Is your own game going to be less fun because he's playing this way? No one and you're not. It doesn't: it doesn't threaten anyone. No, it will be fun, and his fun is all that matters to him. And finally, no: you can choose to ignore what someone else wants to do thousands of miles away and it will never hurt you. No one here knows how the magic-tech of Eberron actually works: that is one of those undescribed things that we can all define to suit the purposes of our own story plots. None of you are experts on magic, just rules and fluff. Fluff is made to be altered (especially in Eberron), and rules don't prevent the creation of any race a DM wants to invent. There is, quite literally, absolutely nothing that prevents the OP from doing what he wants to. And it is still Eberron. And, finally, we are now talking about grafts that *ANYBODY* can use. Not just warforged. Such things are only precedent setting. He isn't creating the race to work off of those exact rules, and he doesn't have to. He is extending current magic-tech to a new level of understanding. If its an item, and not part of the creature, then it is vulnerable to Dispel Magic and Anti-Magic Fields. Which means any half-way intelligent spellcaster (IE, most of them), are simply going to do a targetted dispel at your interchangable legs, which will supress the magic and make you fall on your butt helpless for what, 1d4 rounds? Not if he chooses to extend the normal Grafting rules. That makes it no less vulnerable than any graft. Basically, there's nothing a WF can do along this route that a human could not also do. So? He's creating a new race. What a human can do is irrelevant, if he so chooses. However the concepts presented here allow a character to effectively re-stat himself as he sees fit. Going into a fight, well time to put on the strength and dexterity parts. Going into a social situation, time for the charisma and intelligence items. And so on and so forth. Most other characters can make some adjustments but not that many. How many and what he can do is just a matter of game balance. Other systems have included these concepts and been fine -- sepcifically Champions/Hero System, but other Superhero systems as well. How much this kind of flexibility costs can be judged. Your problem with this is that you assume the character should have a total stat in each configuration that is equivalent to other characters. That's an incorrect assumption -- such flexibility does need to come with a cost. If you want me to go into it, I can. The explanation is long and boring, though.
Jeebus2010 10-02-07, 04:38 PM	And who made you, or anyone else here, the Guardian of Eberron? Why does this idea need a nail in its coffin in the first place? Is the game not going to be fun for him? Is your own game going to be less fun because he's playing this way? No one and you're not. It doesn't: it doesn't threaten anyone. No, it will be fun, and his fun is all that matters to him. And finally, no: you can choose to ignore what someone else wants to do thousands of miles away and it will never hurt you. No one here knows how the magic-tech of Eberron actually works: that is one of those undescribed things that we can all define to suit the purposes of our own story plots. None of you are experts on magic, just rules and fluff. Fluff is made to be altered (especially in Eberron), and rules don't prevent the creation of any race a DM wants to invent. There is, quite literally, absolutely nothing that prevents the OP from doing what he wants to. And it is still Eberron. Such things are only precedent setting. He isn't creating the race to work off of those exact rules, and he doesn't have to. He is extending current magic-tech to a new level of understanding. Not if he chooses to extend the normal Grafting rules. That makes it no less vulnerable than any graft. So? He's creating a new race. What a human can do is irrelevant, if he so chooses. How many and what he can do is just a matter of game balance. Other systems have included these concepts and been fine -- sepcifically Champions/Hero System, but other Superhero systems as well. How much this kind of flexibility costs can be judged. Your problem with this is that you assume the character should have a total stat in each configuration that is equivalent to other characters. That's an incorrect assumption -- such flexibility does need to come with a cost. If you want me to go into it, I can. The explanation is long and boring, though. finally!! someone who`s not arguing that it's wrong!! lol
Jeebus2010 10-02-07, 04:46 PM	now if all the ney sayers are done telling me that im gunna ruin their game... i'd like to ask anyone who has positive input such as ideas for parts and don`t worry about being silly ;) this is all for FUN, ya knwo what playing dnd is suposed to be? that being said i'd like to ask for help on this i'm thinking of something for flying maybe they designed a warforged airforce in the last war :P what you thing? legs of flying? and your not alowed to go on for 12 posts about how flawed the system i`m working on is lol
deathbane 10-02-07, 07:11 PM	And who made you, or anyone else here, the Guardian of Eberron? Why does this idea need a nail in its coffin in the first place? Is the game not going to be fun for him? Is your own game going to be less fun because he's playing this way? No one and you're not. It doesn't: it doesn't threaten anyone. No, it will be fun, and his fun is all that matters to him. And finally, no: you can choose to ignore what someone else wants to do thousands of miles away and it will never hurt you. No one here knows how the magic-tech of Eberron actually works: that is one of those undescribed things that we can all define to suit the purposes of our own story plots. None of you are experts on magic, just rules and fluff. Fluff is made to be altered (especially in Eberron), and rules don't prevent the creation of any race a DM wants to invent. There is, quite literally, absolutely nothing that prevents the OP from doing what he wants to. And it is still Eberron. Such things are only precedent setting. He isn't creating the race to work off of those exact rules, and he doesn't have to. He is extending current magic-tech to a new level of understanding. Not if he chooses to extend the normal Grafting rules. That makes it no less vulnerable than any graft. So? He's creating a new race. What a human can do is irrelevant, if he so chooses. How many and what he can do is just a matter of game balance. Other systems have included these concepts and been fine -- sepcifically Champions/Hero System, but other Superhero systems as well. How much this kind of flexibility costs can be judged. Your problem with this is that you assume the character should have a total stat in each configuration that is equivalent to other characters. That's an incorrect assumption -- such flexibility does need to come with a cost. If you want me to go into it, I can. The explanation is long and boring, though. First of all just because you dont understand how "magic-tech of Eberron" works that does not mean I don't. Second, when someone makes a post on the board it is assumed unless otherwise stated that game balance and mechanics are part of the equation, and his idea is overriding both. I did not see it otherwise stated so stop getting upset if that is what we are going by. If the OP says I don't care about balance and only want ideas then I am sure there are plenty of gamers who can give him reasonable, graft ideas. We understand that his game won't affect ours. Now that the OP has said i'd like to ask anyone who has positive input such as ideas for parts and don`t worry about being silly this is all for FUN, ya knwo what playing dnd is suposed to be?. We can help him. To the OP: What are the limits of the creations?
Jeebus2010 10-02-07, 09:11 PM	i'm not sure about limits im thinking a +2 ability bonus to the appropriate stat, and they can be damaged as armor (ie target of sunder/improved sunder) but i don't know about dispel/anti-magic as for balance i`m thinking that their slightly less durable then permanent parts like components so they would be treated like i dunno having 5 less hardness and hp then a regular component because their made of cheaper mat's (mass produced) and i guess anyone that can take a WF graft could use one of these to the same benefit ('cept it won`t detach :P ) so this could i guess be both a body feat and a sub-race (like psi-forged for example)
Kreistor2 10-03-07, 02:02 AM	First of all just because you dont understand how "magic-tech of Eberron" works that does not mean I don't. Remarkable achievement, considering it's all fluff, written by a dozen different people, and entirely inconsistent. (I liked earlier in this thread where you thought warforged pieces couldn't be used for anything. Clearly your understanding is perfect.) Second, when someone makes a post on the board it is assumed unless otherwise stated that game balance and mechanics are part of the equation, and his idea is overriding both. I did not see it otherwise stated so stop getting upset if that is what we are going by. If the OP says I don't care about balance and only want ideas then I am sure there are plenty of gamers who can give him reasonable, graft ideas. We understand that his game won't affect ours. Upset? Me? Never. I never get angry with people that shoot down other people's ideas.
deathbane 10-03-07, 05:58 AM	Remarkable achievement, considering it's all fluff, written by a dozen different people, and entirely inconsistent. (I liked earlier in this thread where you thought warforged pieces couldn't be used for anything. Clearly your understanding is perfect.) Upset? Me? Never. I never get angry with people that shoot down other people's ideas. The deterioration is not fluff. It is actually how they work. If you remove the part without applying some magic to preserve it that is what will happen. I thought I explained that when you made your 7 day comment but I guess you did not hear it. Another thing is when people post ideas they are looking for feedback, and like I said, NORMALLY, unless otherwise stated it is for reasons of balance, and game mechanics. I could just lie and say go with it, knowing it is unbalanced, but if that is the case then why would anyone even bother to come here if they will just get a yes man. If you were paying attention you would have noticed that once he said it was more of a fun issue than a balance issue I left the issue alone. That stuff in bold was stated last time. I figured you must not have gotten it so I made it easier to see.
deathbane 10-03-07, 06:05 AM	i'm not sure about limits im thinking a +2 ability bonus to the appropriate stat, and they can be damaged as armor (ie target of sunder/improved sunder) but i don't know about dispel/anti-magic as for balance i`m thinking that their slightly less durable then permanent parts like components so they would be treated like i dunno having 5 less hardness and hp then a regular component because their made of cheaper mat's (mass produced) and i guess anyone that can take a WF graft could use one of these to the same benefit ('cept it won`t detach :P ) so this could i guess be both a body feat and a sub-race (like psi-forged for example) Are you allowing targeted body parts for the sake of your creation. If so the hardness thing should be ok. I don't know exactly what you are looking for but I will throw one out to get a feel. +6 strength with a penalty of 2 to reflex saves. Fluff=The bulk of the arms makes the character a little off balance making it hard for him to move quickly. I know you said +2 but I just wanted to say how much power you would accept.
Jeebus2010 10-03-07, 09:49 AM	Are you allowing targeted body parts for the sake of your creation. If so the hardness thing should be ok. I don't know exactly what you are looking for but I will throw one out to get a feel. +6 strength with a penalty of 2 to reflex saves. Fluff=The bulk of the arms makes the character a little off balance making it hard for him to move quickly. I know you said +2 but I just wanted to say how much power you would accept. +6 is a little much for eberron maybe +4 tho it's possible to make a +6 but he`d basically have large size arms on a medium sized body :P i'm thinking with asistance (required) he could change his torso type (think of it like breast plates but different) so he'd be able to swap body feats (ie:mythral,adamantine,unarmored,densewo od,ect..)
Kreistor2 10-03-07, 10:16 AM	Another thing is when people post ideas they are looking for feedback, and like I said, NORMALLY, unless otherwise stated it is for reasons of balance, and game mechanics. And yet, when I read the OP's response once some of us established that there was nothing stopping him, his reaction towards the massive negative feedback, including yours, was that it was entirely unhelpful and insulting. You definitely gave him what he wanted, didn't you? Normally, people do not like getting shot down, no matter how much others dislike their idea. By going that route, you don't make friends, and you drive people away from this forum. Fortunately, this OP stuck with it.
Kreistor2 10-03-07, 10:24 AM	+6 is a little much for eberron maybe +4 tho it's possible to make a +6 but he`d basically have large size arms on a medium sized body :P i'm thinking with asistance (required) he could change his torso type (think of it like breast plates but different) so he'd be able to swap body feats (ie:mythral,adamantine,unarmored,densewo od,ect..) The easiest way to do all this is to cost all the items as a magic item that doesn't have a space limitation. All standard magic item rules would apply. You don't need to create a whole bunch of unique items, you can just take anything out of any magic item source, then double the cost since it is an item that doesn't have a space limitation. Since they don't take up space, the Warforged can still wear items over these. It maintains balance without worrying about player vs. player balance. Any human can do exactly the same thing (that is, create items that don't take space).
Jeebus2010 10-03-07, 10:35 AM	that works :) so basically standard magic item creation rules apply and make them so they don`t take up a slot .. makes sense :) and now for an item! :D lets see now.. got arms and legs and torsos covered.. what else is there? specific parts i guess like hands/feet? hands-maybe somthing designed to use a bow better? +1 attack/damage with a bow? and a +2 dex?
Kreistor2 10-03-07, 10:46 AM	Look up Bracers of Archery in the DMG. Lesser would come in at 10000GP without a slot.
Jeebus2010 10-03-07, 03:16 PM	Look up Bracers of Archery in the DMG. Lesser would come in at 10000GP without a slot. point. hmm..well the hands would be designed to enhance ranged abilities with a bow (long or short composite or other wise) how about the hands allow you to add your dex bonus to damage with a bow? it'll still stack with zen archery (unless zen lets u sub out dex for wis for attack only?) they would be useless for cross bows? anybody with any ideas for components can add them here too, because technically they are interchangeable too :P so if you have an idea for an air elemental battle fist add it or earth elemental legs , it don`t matter =-]
Kreistor2 10-03-07, 04:04 PM	Rock Boots for earth elemental bound legs. Magic of Eberron, pg. 119
Jeebus2010 10-03-07, 05:33 PM	Rock Boots for earth elemental bound legs. Magic of Eberron, pg. 119 good to know :) air legs then for a dex/speed boost?
deathbane 10-03-07, 09:37 PM	And yet, when I read the OP's response once some of us established that there was nothing stopping him, his reaction towards the massive negative feedback, including yours, was that it was entirely unhelpful and insulting. You definitely gave him what he wanted, didn't you? Normally, people do not like getting shot down, no matter how much others dislike their idea. By going that route, you don't make friends, and you drive people away from this forum. Fortunately, this OP stuck with it. Of course there is nothing stopping him. He is the DM. I gave him what he wanted according to the original post. I guess when someone comes here with an overpowered idea you will just say "it is ok give the wizard full BAB and D12 HD". I am not here to shoot anyone down or lie to them, which is what you want me to do. If it's overpowered I will tell them it is overpowered. If they don't care about that, and make it known, then I will ignore that, and just answer the question. If you want to lie and say it is ok, just to spare feelings go ahead, but most people make more friends by being honest, than by telling people what they want to hear. I wouldn't want a liar as my friend. If I come here post an idea, and most people who can accept the truth will agree, don't tell me my build is ok if it's not. Tell me my PrC has to many HD, or too much AC, and so on. The game is about fun, but when the party is smashed because Pun's little brother came to play nobody will be having fun. I know the OP's idea is not on that level, but I think you get my point, but then again since you seem to be saying it is better to just go with what people say, instead of telling them the truth maybe you don't. Another thing is this if you want to be a yes man go ahead, but don't be upset at others who won't do it. If someone knows that by coming here everyone will say yes, then why even bother to come here?
Jeebus2010 10-03-07, 09:59 PM	Ok folks after some time and consideration I've decided to tweak my original idea.(ok and alot flack that i could/should have possibly listened to) it'll be a Body Feat/ Sub-Race Grafted Warforged it will have the ability to attach/detach warforged grafts without the HP penalty, it`s still same concept just refined thats why i'm not starting a new thread. now those "parts" concived can they be Warforged Grafts? (i haven't read MoE (magic of eberron) cover to cover so i`m kinda in the dark) the attachment/detaching will be full round action that provokes an Attack of Opportunity
Kreistor2 10-03-07, 11:37 PM	Of course there is nothing stopping him. He is the DM. I gave him what he wanted according to the original post.[quote] Let's just check that, shall we? [QUOTE=Jeebus2010]I'm thinking of home brewing a Wf sub-race that can switch parts of it's body for other based on it's need. body parts will be treated as treasure. and will provide an ability bonus/penalty based on which part (ie legs are +2 dex/- 2 Con flexable but a bit on the fragile side) Let me see... nope, nope... hmm and nope. He doesn't actually make any request at all. He doesn't ask if this is allowed by the rules, so he wasn't asking about that. He actually says, "houserule," which means he knew it wasn't official. He doesn't ask what kind of fluff he'd need to allow it. Actually, he doesn't ask for anything whatsoever. I admit it's a strange post, but it certainly isn't asking if people think it is disallowed by the rules of the world. And he certainly isn't asking for a fluff-based analysis. So, no, I don't think you, or any of the naysayers, were responding to any actual request. In fact, he does say this in #12... so it's kinda agianst the grain for alota folks but as i said in my first post its a house rule/table rule everyones entitle to their opinion and this is mine so folks if u agree with me don't let the thread die In which he indicates he doesn't really care much for the negative posting. And this comment is before your first post, deathbane, which was #13, the next post after the above quote, with more than an hour between the posts. I dunno... maybe you're just unobservant. Another thing is this if you want to be a yes man go ahead, but don't be upset at others who won't do it. If someone knows that by coming here everyone will say yes, then why even bother to come here? Me, a "yes man"? Heheh... you might want to review with some people just how much of a "yes man" I am before walking that path. You can start with this recent thread... http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=913015 I think you'll find I don't fear telling anyone their inventions are full of holes. Including half-fiend bovines...
Jeebus2010 10-04-07, 09:59 AM	Back to my original idea, well not so much my origanal idea as i`m asking for ideas from all of you! :P i've run outa idea's at the moment so anyone with fresh ideas feel free to post
Edymnion 10-04-07, 09:00 PM	now if all the ney sayers are done telling me that im gunna ruin their game... i'd like to ask anyone who has positive input such as ideas for parts and don`t worry about being silly ;) this is all for FUN, ya knwo what playing dnd is suposed to be?So PEACH does not apply to this thread, gotcha.
Kreistor2 10-04-07, 11:08 PM	So PEACH does not apply to this thread, gotcha. PEACH happened. He preferred positive feedback to negative, like 100% of the human population on this world. You're surprised?
Edymnion 10-06-07, 03:24 PM	PEACH happened. He preferred positive feedback to negative, like 100% of the human population on this world. You're surprised?No, when you specify "I don't want any feedback that doesn't say you like my idea", you are no longer asking for an honest opinion or critique. He got PEACH, he didn't like PEACH, he said he didn't want any more PEACH.
Kreistor2 10-07-07, 04:56 AM	No, when you specify "I don't want any feedback that doesn't say you like my idea", you are no longer asking for an honest opinion or critique. So all posters need to live by your rules on these matters? Who died and made you lord of these forums? There are a lot of people that think PEACH is a nice fruit. The OP never used the term, in the first place: you did. He got PEACH, he didn't like PEACH, he said he didn't want any more PEACH. No, he didn't like your criticism. That is his right. Your first post was fine: that was honest criticism. You made your point, and he rejected it. And he said this: it's kinda agianst the grain for alota folks but as i said in my first post its a house rule/table rule Your next response (post #14) to the OP was not criticism. He clearly understood your analysis in the first post and rejected it. You turn to a fluff argument (some personal interpretation of what "living" means), when he has already rejected fluff because he is knowingly declaring it a houserule. You were being argumentative, and were no longer criticizing honestly. You were trying to win a debate. What is PEACH for except to stop debates on meaningless topics in threads intended to gather information and ideas for an OP? You broke PEACH, Edy, not the OP.
Jeebus2010 10-07-07, 11:26 PM	So all posters need to live by your rules on these matters? Who died and made you lord of these forums? There are a lot of people that think PEACH is a nice fruit. The OP never used the term, in the first place: you did. No, he didn't like your criticism. That is his right. Your first post was fine: that was honest criticism. You made your point, and he rejected it. And he said this: Your next response (post #14) to the OP was not criticism. He clearly understood your analysis in the first post and rejected it. You turn to a fluff argument (some personal interpretation of what "living" means), when he has already rejected fluff because he is knowingly declaring it a houserule. You were being argumentative, and were no longer criticizing honestly. You were trying to win a debate. What is PEACH for except to stop debates on meaningless topics in threads intended to gather information and ideas for an OP? You broke PEACH, Edy, not the OP. he did seem kinda focused on killing the idea, a friend of mine told me he dosen`t like the way it works , said i should go with a graft swapping race/feat if he gave advise on that instead of saying "yea you can`t do this" he'd get a warmer welcome now if the person from post 2 is still around i'd be happy to colaberate on this with some one. but enough of aruging agianst it, it`s a house/table rule i only intend to balance for mechanics fluff don`t matter to me i'll make my own :P