Post/Author/DateTime	Post
naturax 02-03-08, 12:42 AM	I've always sort of just wrote changelings out of the Eberron games that I run because I have a hard time believing that if people knew that their lovers/neighbours/constables could be changelings at any given time, society would break down. But at the same time, I have a neat idea for an all-changeling game that I want to run. So I need to reconcile my idea that if changelings did exist, they would be obligated to keep their true nature a secret in order to survive with the realization that if doppelgangers were faced with this problem in the first place however long ago, where did changelings come from in the first place? Why would a smart doppelganger breed, knowing that the offspring would give them away? If this idea is addressed in any sourcebook, please point it out to me. Otherwise, it would be convenient for me to have both changelings and doppelgangers working for the Tyrants in Sharn so that I can run this campaign, but this question is really bugging me. I'd be grateful for any thoughts you have on the matter. Thanks!
skrap-san 02-03-08, 01:32 AM	Why did people from the upper classes fall in love with people from lower social layers? Why did Romeo marry Juliet? Its a stupid thing to marry the daughter of the family that you are in war with. In short, emotions and urges i would guess. And as we know they are fairly random things from time to time, but I would still believe that changelings and doppelgangers have them too not just us humans and elves etc.
ratslinky 02-03-08, 06:15 AM	1. The reason society doesn't breakdown because a changeling might be your neighbor is the same reason society doesn't breakdown because your neighbor might be a serial killer. People just try not to think about it. Besides if society can go on when spells like Alter Self, Polymorph and Disguise Self exist changeling probably won't make that much difference. 2. A doppleganger might take male form while breeding or they might go to a secluded spot in the country before bearing children. Apart from that you might want to check out Races of Eberron if one of your friend has it. In fact the section on Passers might be of particular interest to you. Hope that helps.
Syltorian 02-03-08, 06:35 AM	I've always sort of just wrote changelings out of the Eberron games that I run because I have a hard time believing that if people knew that their lovers/neighbours/constables could be changelings at any given time, society would break down. Not necessarily. Do not underestimate the force of habit: people have lived for generations with changelings in their midst. If it was revealed all of a sudden that these creatures walk around, there would be chaos; but as it is, people grew up in a world where changelings are known. Thus they probably do not think too much about it. People have this habit of getting on with their lives even in the presence of reasonable threats. In London, they still take the underground even though there were terrorist attacks made against it. Around Naples, they live near a still active volcano with the ruins of previous cities right next to them. But these problems are ignored in everyday life. Yes, there is a potential danger, as there is a potential danger in Eberron that your loved one has been replaced by a changeling... but the same as you don't/can't stop taking the Tube or don't/can't move away from the volcano, people in Eberron don't/can't worry about changelings all that much.That is not to say that you would trust a them, but only the really paranoid would triple-check every evening whether their spouse is still who he/she claims to be . Besides: Changelings are a minor problem. Sure, there might be a new dimension to the crime of identity theft. But lovers and neighbours could be any other kind of thing: a mage under the effect of the first-level spell disguise self, for example, or a Phiarlan elf, anyone with a headband of disguise, and so forth. Changelings are rare, and most live fairly normal lives They have little interest in impersonating your neighbour, unless the neighbour has always been a changeling from day one. They simply want to get on with their own lives without engaging in risky subterfuge and impersonating. And for those who are paranoid enough to worry, there is the Recognise Imposter feat (ECS). Why would a smart doppelganger breed, knowing that the offspring would give them away? As skrap-san said, because they are in love, perhaps? The heart has its reasons which reason does not know, as they say. Besides, the first changelings did perhaps not know that the offspring could give them away, and by the time they caught on - could be late, if they do not have a firm community to relay the news - the changelings were already a true-breeding race. There may have been a plan behind the creation of the changeling race, assuming they knew what would happen. Perhaps the Traveller asked it of them. Perhaps the doppelgaenger race is dwindling, and they needed to propagate, even if that meant diluting the blood. Perhaps it was a plan to infiltrate humans/humanoids even better. Perhaps the prophecy required it, and they themselves saw that, or were driven to it by the dragons. Also, it might have been inevitable at the time. If you are impersonating someone in deep cover, you may not have the choice to deny your partner their wishes. So not 'breeding' could give you away too, but 9 month earlier. Those 9 months could see the completion of your mission; what happens afterwards may not matter. And then there is simply lust, as opposed to love. Have you seen Excalibur, and Uther Pendragon's seduction of Ygrene? Simply get in for one night, and don't care about the aftermath. So, the real husband returns from battle or his business trip abroad, and finds that his wife has borne him a strange offspring. He might cast the child out, and it might die or be found by peasants or even the doppelgaenger, and be brought up that way. He might try to hide the dishonour. He might blame the fey to have 'replaced' his real child (as in the RL folklore significance of 'changeling'), if he does not know what a doppelgaenger is and what their offspring looks like. He might even forgive his wife if he knows the truth, because she was not intentionally unfaithful, and as a good person he might not want to cast out or smother the baby. Finally, there are accidents, pure and simply. Unplanned pregnancies do happen. You also need to ask the question why the doppelgaenger or changeling would care if he is given away. He can simply adopt a different form, give up his previous (now blown) cover, and nobody will be much the wiser.
naturax 02-03-08, 09:43 AM	Thanks for the replies. What this all comes down to is that I'm trying to set the stage for an all-changeling game. Is it cooler for the PCs if they are part of a secret cabal that has been working out of Sharn for generations and people don't even know that they exist? Or is it more practical to say that everyone knows about changelings, but only sees them extremely rarely because they are so unpopular? The plot of the game is going to revolve around a member of the Tyrants who discovers the faith of the Silver Flame and comes back to Sharn from a few years of Templar training in Thrane to expose all of the changelings. He's going to use the convention that knights and paladins of the Silver Flame are allowed "do battle with inhuman forces of darkness as it is necessary to protect the people of Khorvaire", and of course walk around in his true form all the time because he's reformed, and generally be the antagonist. In order to pull this off properly, I really want to understand the role that changelings have, their relationship to doppelgangers, how the Tyrants operate, etc. I hope everyone can see where I'm coming from.
Gurv 02-03-08, 03:40 PM	There are 40 creatures listed in Sharn: City of Towers as "Impersonators". Changelings are minor compared to the trouble most of them would cause. The most likely origin for changelings would have to be doppelgangers who posed as lovers and impregnated humanoid women. Given the tendency doppelgangers have for choice of religion, this gives whole new meaning to "Beware the gifts of the Traveler." When the first changelings were born due to these situations, what could you do? No doubt many of them were destroyed, but some were protected and raise. That's why changelings exist. Over time, they bred true. As others have said, people tend to ignore problems they can't avoid. They adjust to them, minimize the impact and risk, and then they move on. The people of Eberron don't forget that their friends could be changelings. They just hope they're not, the same way I hope none of my friends are terrorists. For you, I would say that it is most practical to say that everyone knows about changelings. They know about illusion magic, right? Werewolves? Demonic possession? So a few changelings aren't going to topple society. But that doesn't mean that they know about the Tyrants, or the level of infiltration that the Tyrants have accomplished. I mean, they know that every once in a while a changeling pretends to be someone he shouldn't and causes trouble. But believing that the changelings have a spy in every business, every government, and on every street corner? That would be paranoid, like believing that everyone with a turban is also strapped with explosives.
skrap-san 02-03-08, 03:43 PM	I can see where you are coming from, and i can most certainly see that its a really cool idea. So please tell more about it as you start getting things nailed down.
naturax 02-03-08, 04:31 PM	As others have said, people tend to ignore problems they can't avoid. They adjust to them, minimize the impact and risk, and then they move on. The people of Eberron don't forget that their friends could be changelings. They just hope they're not.. Yeah, I'm starting to think that I should just accept that changelings are known about and realize that the collective peoples of Eberron are going to react differently than I might. *grins* It's easy to forget, at least it was for me, that there's a lot of weird stuff that goes on that people in a fantasy setting sort of just have to accept, so once I wrap my head around that mentality I think I'll be comfortable enough to move forward with this campaign. I can see where you are coming from, and i can most certainly see that its a really cool idea. So please tell more about it as you start getting things nailed down. I'm glad that it appeals to you! All I've got so far in addition to what I mentioned above is this: Changelings are being hunted down and captured by the Church who is sending them back to Thrane to be studied and reformed, since the church has convinced Breland that they are a greater evil that the church is specially equipped to deal with. I think to change the mentality of the people of Sharn from "oh, yeah, changelings are scary but that could never happen to me" to "by the host we've got a huge problem to deal with" there'd have to be a big exposure, such as say, revealing that Councilor Kilk is a doppelganger. Once that cat is out of the bag, so to speak, I think the atmosphere of fear and paranoia that I want to establish for the game should follow naturally.
naturax 02-03-08, 11:39 PM	So no one here thinks that governments might resort to regular screenings via divination magic? Or branding known changelings with an arcane mark?
skrap-san 02-04-08, 02:10 AM	Depends, I will have a hard time seeing it done in certain nations, like Breland they are just to big lovers of personal freedom. But in Thrane and Karrnath I would not even lift an eyebrow if they started doing it. Thrane would say they were in league with the demons or something, while Karrnath could have said that the last war was sett in motion by the changelings and doppelgangers. But then maybe some of that propaganda leaks over to the other nations like Breland, and even though the government wont do anything yet, the people on the streets would start complaining and demand it pretty soon. Just some thoughts at least, hope it might help.
naturax 02-04-08, 08:00 AM	A hundred years of war just went by. People might have been pretty concerned that whole time about spies and such. Even though changelings might be a relatively minor problem compared to some of the other stuff out there, it's also pretty easy to deal with. Disguise self and Hat of Disguise can both be detected with detect magic, correct? So if you don't have a quick and easy solution like that to make sure your general is your general, well, I'm asking for everyone's opinion on what would happen. Or even better, a friend of mine sent me his ideas: I have decided that all of the old kingdoms, thrane, aundair, kharinath, breland have laws stating the if a changeling is discovered he must pay for his own mark of justice spell, usually though some sort of forced act, most commonly by ratting out other members of the changeling community, otherwise, it’s off to the gallows. Once the money is raised, often after years of forced labour, the changing receives the following mark. - you may not impersonate humans who exist, or who have existed. -you may not use your changing abilities to decide or mislead others. -when setting up residence you must notify all in your community that you are a converted changing. -you may not ever, under any circumstances, attempt to remove this mark. Penalty if broken : loss of all supernatural abilities. Surface of skin permanently changed to a checkerboard pattern. An alternative is: -You may only use your changeling abilities when ordered -You will obey all commands from officers of ______ - you will never , though action or inaction, allow these officers to come to harm -you cannot end your own life, unless doing so is required in the previous two laws. -you cannot attempt to remove this mark Penalty if broken : , insanity, resulting in a “strobing“ skin coloration. This is how changelings are maintained, with both a mark of justice, and an arcane mark. Both of which allow caters to scry upon them with ease, and to keep track of all changelings routinely. If the scrys are unsuccessful, they know the changling has gone wild, and can search for him accordingly, hopefully before he has remove curse cast upon him.
Hellcow 02-05-08, 12:19 AM	I think to change the mentality of the people of Sharn from "oh, yeah, changelings are scary but that could never happen to me" to "by the host we've got a huge problem to deal with" there'd have to be a big exposure, such as say, revealing that Councilor Kilk is a doppelganger. Once that cat is out of the bag, so to speak, I think the atmosphere of fear and paranoia that I want to establish for the game should follow naturally. I'm not going to weigh in on the general issue - It's all about what's right for your campaign - but I do want to point out that it's public knowledge that Councilor Kilk is a changeling; he wears his true face when he attends council meetings. With that said... He's actually MULTIPLE changelings; it's a shared identity. However, this sort of shared or heirloom identity is a common practice among the changelings of Dragoneyes, and I wouldn't expect someone familiar with Lower Tavick's Landing to be that surprised by it; the point is that as a changeling community that has existed for some time, they have developed their own unique customs and concepts of personal identity. It's hard for many humans to wrap their brain around the idea of trading an identity like you might change your armor, but that's the deal here. Each of the changelings who shares the role of Kilk is trusted within Dragoneyes, and the constituency who supports him wouldn't be too surprised by this. Of course, you said "doppelganger" instead of "changeling"; doppelgangers might make people more nervous, given that they are telepathic and have superior shapechanging abilities. In any case, the point is that Kilk's constituency knows what he is. He may creep out the other councilors, but that's part of the point. Also, bear in mind that in nations that have long had significant populations of changelings (in Breland, one out of every 25 people is a changeling), their skills are actually recognized and used. Changelings may make good rogues, but they also make great actors, spies, body doubles, and as Sharn shows, prostitutes. If you brand all your changelings with arcane marks, then it's harder to have your OWN corps of changeling spies. (There's actually another thread which included a long list of possible legal professions for changelings.) Depends, I will have a hard time seeing it done in certain nations, like Breland they are just to big lovers of personal freedom. Which is why you see the numbers you do. Look to the population numbers in the Five Nations. In Breland, changelings make up 4% of the population - 1 of every 25 people. In my opinion, this results in a more cosmopolitan attitude towards changelings, and more open communities of changelings within large cities... which, in turn, draws changelings from other nations to migrate to Breland. Thus, you will have more changelings operating in both legal and illegal professions, a greater use of changelings as spies and undercover police, and the like. People from Brelish cities aren't shocked by changelings; stop by Dragoneyes and they're everywhere. In Aundair, changelings make up 2% of the population. Here, my thought is that they have their communities, but are more likely to be closeted. Personally, I'm put in mind of Big Love. There may be a few communities of changelings, largely keeping to themselves to avoid the suspicion of others; it's not a crime to be a changeling, any more than it's a crime to be a medusa. Those who live in the cities would generally keep their true nature hidden, forming support networks, revealing themselves to trusted neighbors and friends. In some areas, a discovered changeling might be driven out; in others, they'd be more concerned with the changeling's history as a member of the community than his race. And in a few cosmopolitan areas there'd be changelings who didn't hide. But nothing on the level of Dragoneyes in Sharn. Meanwhile, in Thrane and Karrnath, changelings don't make up a statistically significant percentage of the population - they fall into the "other" category (3% for Thrane, 4% for Karrnath, but including MANY races). Combined with the national character of these nations, that's likely to reflect suspicion and fear among most of the populace, and a greater likelihood of preemptive measures to prevent a changeling from criminal acts or severe punishments for identity theft (just as the Code of Kaius takes a harder line on most crimes than the Code of Galifar). So in these nations, you're more likely to get changelings as isolated births as opposed to full communities - and those isolated changelings may want to move to Breland, if they can. This in turn also means that these nations are less likely to have changeling spies... and is one more reason they distrust the Brelish. What sort of immoral nation would allow changeling brothels to exist in its proudest city? So consider where the changeling is from. Some people will fear him; others will judge him by his actions and recognize the value of his talents.
OctaviusIII 02-05-08, 12:46 AM	About the demographics of it: there are roughly as many changlings in Khorvaire as there are Minnesotans in the US. In Breland, they are a bit less of the population than are Anglicans in the US.
naturax 02-05-08, 10:33 AM	In any case, the point is that Kilk's constituency knows what he is. He may creep out the other councilors, but that's part of the point. Also, bear in mind that in nations that have long had significant populations of changelings (in Breland, one out of every 25 people is a changeling), their skills are actually recognized and used. Changelings may make good rogues, but they also make great actors, spies, body doubles, and as Sharn shows, prostitutes. If you brand all your changelings with arcane marks, then it's harder to have your OWN corps of changeling spies. (There's actually another thread which included a long list of possible legal professions for changelings.) I had no idea that Kilk walked around like a changeling, so I'm really glad you pointed that out to me. I was disappointed that there wasn't a description of him so I said that he was a skinny, twitchy human. I also didn't realize that there were so many changelings in Breland. I can guess what life would be like with artifice and magic, but I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around what life would be like having so many changelings around. If they are that commonplace and just understood to be a facet of society (at least in Sharn) then having someone turn around and claim that changelings are "inhuman forces of darkness" is going to be difficult, or at least take a drastic event. Perhaps a drastic event that could be staged...
skrap-san 02-05-08, 12:20 PM	a really nasty thing that could would spur the world into Changeling hating is if king Boranel was killed of by a changeling that then stole his identity. Or kidnapped if you don't want to kill him of.
Hellcow 02-05-08, 12:32 PM	I had no idea that Kilk walked around like a changeling, so I'm really glad you pointed that out to me. I was disappointed that there wasn't a description of him... Yes, the decription is unclear. The only real clue is that "Kilk" is a traditional changeling name - one syllable, no surname. The humor of it is that what you get with Kilk is multiple changelings disguising themselves as a changeling - so even though he looks like a changeling, he's not necessarily what he seems to be. I also didn't realize that there were so many changelings in Breland. I can guess what life would be like with artifice and magic, but I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around what life would be like having so many changelings around. The thing to bear in mind is that, at least in Breland, they don't HAVE to hide. A lone changeling living in Thrane will have a different childhood and a different attitude towards his own powers than one living in Dragoneyes and trying to earn an honest living as a innkeeper or blacksmith. On the other hand, you have the professional clown or street performer, who may use his gift in amusing ways; the actor who can play any role, but enjoys wearing his true face between parts; the artist who uses his own skin as a canvas; and so on. To me, this is what makes the changelings interesting - to say that if you had a community of changelings that doesn't have to hide (something you'd mainly find in Breland or the Lhazaar Principalities), what sort of customs would they develop? How would they view physical identity? What kinds of art could they create? Nonetheless, you're dealing with over 6,000 changelings in Sharn, and many of them are going to be commoners pursuing everyday professions; a changeling has to eat too, and if every changeling was an identity-stealing thief, they'd have been hunted down and dealt with. The fact that they are around - and have their own recognized community and representative on the council - shows that they are capable of living peacefully alongside humans. Beyond this, don't forget the limitations of the changeling ability. Unlike the doppelganger, they can't manufacture clothing and they can't read minds - both of which limit their ability to steal your identity at the drop of a hat. In that, the changeling is actually at a disadvantage in comparison to someone wearing a hat of disguise or a sorcerer with disguise self, either of which could mimic your clothing instantly. And that's the key: This isn't our world. ANYONE could be a 1st-level sorcerer, after all; not only could they have disguise self, they could have the power to use burning hands (with the potential to kill multple commoners with a wave of a hand) or charm person (mind control!). Are you going to do something to preemptively identify sorcerers and prevent them from casting spells? As it stands, the Code of Galifar has laws addressing the abuse of magic and, for that matter, theft of identity through use of changeling ability or magic. But you're still innocent until you actually commit a crime. Perhaps a drastic event that could be staged... Absolutely. Furthermore, everything I've said is based on what the books say about Sharn. The needs of your campaign should ALWAYS come first. If you prefer to have Kilk conceal his true nature to allow for a shocking exposure, do it! If you want there to only be a thousand changelings in all of Breland, go for it. As it stands, Breland is the safest haven for changelings in the Five Nations - but none of that matters if you want to take the story in a different direction.
naturax 02-05-08, 01:09 PM	... everything I've said is based on what the books say about Sharn. The needs of your campaign should ALWAYS come first. If you prefer to have Kilk conceal his true nature to allow for a shocking exposure, do it! If you want there to only be a thousand changelings in all of Breland, go for it. As it stands, Breland is the safest haven for changelings in the Five Nations - but none of that matters if you want to take the story in a different direction. I really appreciate you taking the time to elaborate on the ideas as presented in the books, as this does help me figure out what I want to do. So thanks. I'm trying to figure out which extreme would provide the most exciting atmosphere for a group of PC changelings working for the Tyrants. If changelings are that commonplace in Sharn and something extremely dramatic happens to make them feared, then an allegory with the United States today becomes very strong. If on the other hand changelings are utterly unheard of because doppelgangers keep their very existence a secret and they are plotting to replace all of Eberron (I like to incorporate ideas from the Guide to Doppelgangers because there is so much good stuff there) then having them be exposed should provoke a different kind of response from the populous and create a different set of political ramifications. It will absolutely come down to which would make for a better story arc, so I continue to welcome everyone's ideas one way or the other. Which would you rather play in?
Zadmar 02-08-08, 11:53 AM	My concern with changelings is a combination of two factors. The first is scale: 4% of 3700000 = 148000 changelings in Breland alone. The second is the difficulty involved in revealing them. As Naturax pointed out, detect magic will reveal Disguise Self or a Hat of Disguise - and it's only a level 0 spell, available to bards, clerics, druids, sorcerers, wizards, artifacers and magewrights. It doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility that a group of cityguards might have a level 1 magewright among them who can cast detect magic - but how often will you bump into a cityguard capable of casting the level 5-7 True Seeing required to reveal a changeling? Furthermore, the Disguise Self spell only lasts 10 minutes per level, which simply isn't long enough to fool people long-term. You could use it for a snatch-and-grab, or to slip past some guards, but unless you only leave your house for 10 minutes per day your neighbours are unlikely to get suspicious. The Hat of Disguise provides a more permanent option, but 1800gp is far beyond the price range of most citizens, and once again it only takes some guy with a level 0 spell to reveal that you're disguising yourself. There are plenty of other creatures with the ability to shapechange, but they're sufficiently rare that it's not a major issue. That strange old guy who lives at the end of the street is unlikely to be a dragon or an ogre mage, after all - but with 24 other people living on your street, statistically it's very likely that one of them is a changeling. In my campaign, changelings find it very difficult to duplicate an existing person. Most will create a preferred form (or forms) and stick with it, perhaps creating new identities when needed, but very few can copy another person with sufficient skill to fool people up close. Furthermore, nobody really knows how many changelings there are - I've never specified how many (other than "fewer than are listed in the book"), as I tend to assume that most changelings live most of their lives in one form.
Hellcow 02-08-08, 01:05 PM	In my campaign, changelings find it very difficult to duplicate an existing person... very few can copy another person with sufficient skill to fool people up close. This isn't just your campaign; this is simple fact. Bear in mind that the changeling ability is a simple +10 to Disguise skill, and doesn't provide clothing, supporting props, or a doppelganger or rakshasa's mind-reading ability. The typical changeling is a 1st-level commoner, just like the typical human... so at best, 2 ranks in the disguise skill, and assuming the non-elite array, no more than a +1 modifier from Charisma. And if the changeling DOES put 4 skill points into Disguise, he's taking them away from Craft or Profession, which he'll need to earn a living - so most probably wont. So the typical changeling is likely just sitting on the +10 modifier from the ability itself. Disguising as a member of a different race is an immediate -2. Age category or gender each drop an additional -2, but let's assume those are avoided. Familiarity can drop a check by up to -10. And by the SRD, "usually an individual makes a Spot check to see through your disguise immediately upon meeting you and every hour thereafter." So even assuming that the person you meet doesn't know the subject of your disguise well, but just recognizes him on sight (-4) and that all you're doing is a different race (-2)... you're basing everything on a +4 modifier, and they'll be checking every hour. That's not going to hold up. On the other hand, if you're disguised as someone they've never met - because you're someone who doesn't actually exist - all you've got is the racial penalty. A changeling 2nd-level expert or rogue who can put ranks into Disguise and Bluff can really fool people - but when you've got tens of thousands of changelings in Breland, they aren't all rogues. I tend to assume that most changelings live most of their lives in one form. Don't forget that changelings do assume their natural form when they are unconscious, including when they sleep... among other things, this will make it very difficult for a changeling to live with a member of another race without revealing his true nature. In a place like Thrane or Karrnath, I certainly expect changelings to be undercover. However, in places like Breland or the Lhazaar Principalities, you have true changeling communities, where multiple generations of changelings have grown up among others of their kind and where they don't have to hide who they are. For these changelings, what interests me is the ways they WOULD use their shapechanging. They don't have to use it to deceive, and in fact, those who do would potentially pose a threat to the community by bringing down the wrath of the non-changelings. So what are both the legal uses of the power, and more than that, the artistic and cultural uses of it? This is one of the points of Kilk - that the changelings of Dragoneyes don't think of identity in the same way that we do, and that a name and a face are to them as we think of a set of clothes. It's not a question of impersonating a non-changeling; it's a matter of crafting an original identity, and then perhaps sharing it with a friend or child. To them, "Kilk" is a uniform you wear when doing Council activities. Mind you, those who take on the role of Kilk in the council WOULD be experts - after all, it's a job that also calls for Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Knowledge Local, and other skills. So it is difficult for the other councilors to tell that there's more than one Kilk. If you're dealing with an actual community of hundreds of settled changelings, most likely they won't all be thieves and con artists. They may have trouble escaping the stereotype, but they'll still be commoners and craftsmen. The question then comes: if a changeling doesn't have to use his power to hide, what does he use it for? If you COULD change your shape, would you just ignore the power simply because you aren't trying to deceive people? Or would you find other uses? That's the sort of question that interests me, and that makes a visit to Dragoneyes really interesting. So again, per the book, changelings are virtually unknown (yet still there, most likely) in most of Khorvaire. In Aundair people know they're around, but they're rarely seen in their true form... though you may still have a few small communities; remember, just because they make up 2% of the national population DOESN'T mean that they make up 2% of the population of every community, as they could be concentrated into a few areas. And in Breland and Lhazaar, you do have changeling communities and neighborhoods, places where they can wear their true faces and develop their own customs. Again, this doesn't mean that every Brelish changeling WILL be open about his true nature, or that he won't use his powers for crime or to deceive - simply that if he doesn't want to live that sort of life, there are places he can go where he doesn't have to.
Zadmar 02-08-08, 07:13 PM	Don't forget that changelings do assume their natural form when they are unconscious, including when they sleep... among other things, this will make it very difficult for a changeling to live with a member of another race without revealing his true nature. Interesting, I wasn't aware of that...I thought it was only when they died that they reverted back to their original shape. That could certainly be a huge problem for changelings who are trying to maintain a long-term identity - passing out after too much ale? Getting knocked unconscious in a work-related accident, or during a mugging? Being forced to spend a couple of nights in the local jail for a minor crime? A changeling could be rendered unconscious (and thus be exposed) at any time by any number of factors outside of their control, and would have to take great care to avoid detection if they didn't want to have to move on every so often. I can see I'm going to have to make them much more secretive than I'd originally thought.
Hellcow 02-09-08, 11:25 AM	For me, there's two main issues. The first is that changelings aren't monsters. They don't even have the innate telepathy of the doppelganger, something which IMO is going to produce a culture and psychology quite different from the human mindset (and, of course, my take on that is in The Complete Guide to Doppelgangers). Changelings aren't innately driven to decieve, despite having the natural ability to do so; the manner in which they use their power will be determined by the environment they're raised in. A changeling whose parents are hunted and reviled will have to learn to hide. While a changeling who grows up in an open community and is discouraged from using his powers for criminal activities is less likely to do so. Every human has the potential to be a pickpocket or a con artist, and some have a natural gift for it - yet not all of those people turn to crime. So as I said, I see a big difference between the changeling of Korth and the changeling of Sharn. The second is to consider the many ways in which the world is different from ours. It's true, anyone you meet could be a changeling - though again, the average changeling commoner isn't going to have the skill to fool most people for long. But in Eberron, you're also living in a world where any warforged can mortally wound the average commoner with a single punch, where shifters can grow deadly claws or teeth, where kalashtar could be reading your mind, and where anyone COULD be a sorcerer or warlock capable of incinerating you with a snap of his fingers. There's a LOT of things to fear in the world. Changelings are one of them - but they're far from the only one. So it's all a question of how far you go with the fear... and what things people choose to fear. Again, I'm not trying to change the way anyone uses changelings in their game; as Kreistor2 says below, that's one of the principles of Eberron. But in saying that 4% of the population of Breland are changelings, our original intent was that the changelings of Breland are less secretive than those of other nations. The typical Brelish changeling commoner isn't going to use his ability to pretend to be your brother, because among other things, he probably couldn't pull it off. But he may change his skin color to match his clothing. He may change his hair color and length the way you might change a hat. He may have a cousin - a rogue - who does use his abilities for criminal activities, and this reinforces the negative stereotypes about the race. But as it stands, most of the changelings of Tavick's Landing want the same things out of life as anyone else. But again, that's the thought process behind the population numbers as they exist; if you don't like 'em, change 'em.
Kreistor2 02-09-08, 11:49 AM	I've always sort of just wrote changelings out of the Eberron games that I run because I have a hard time believing that if people knew that their lovers/neighbours/constables could be changelings at any given time, society would break down. And the great thing about Eberron is that you don't need to include them. Just write them out, and run the world the way you are most comfortable. It's not like there's a shortage of shape changing enemies. You can replace any changlings in modules with Rogues with high disguise skill, Rakshasa, dragons, dopplegangers, sorcerers with alter self, etc. That's one of my pet peeves about Eberron -- too many shapechangers. With so many people capable of pretending to be someone else, there woudl be enormous market pressure to provide detection systems to reveal these fakers. But, no, the world continues oblivious to the fact everyone and his brother can be spies and assassins. And it's not like the ability to counter shapechangers is hard or expensive. Detect Shapechanger is just a 2nd level spell, so any item designed around that is hardly expensive to a government or business that measures income in hundreds of thousands or millions of GP. A few detection goggles for security employees saves many, many times the value of the items. Magic items are expensive for PC's. They're nothing for businesses and government.
kelvinaw273 02-09-08, 12:21 PM	How's this for an off-beat idea? Changelings have been infiltrating with and breeding with members of other races for millennia. The idea is that they will hide, and slowly replace other races step by step, bit by bit, mainly through the 'becommers' faction. A changeling party of becomers (perhaps not realizing each other are changelings), uncover the ancient plot, and realize that to save the other races from eventual extinction they must overthrow the hatchers of the plot ... they follow clues and at each stage find the plot is further advanced than they thought. Eventually they find the lair of the dopplegangers who hatched the plot ... to find they were overthrown centuries ago, by a group of becomer changelings ... only it no longer matters: the plot has already succeded, and everyone in the world is now a changeling acting out the role of a member of another race, not realising that the people they hide from are also changelings, acting out their own roles ...
naturax 02-09-08, 06:13 PM	And the great thing about Eberron is that you don't need to include them. Just write them out, and run the world the way you are most comfortable. That's precisely what I've been doing in my personal interpretation of Eberron thus far for the games I'm running, but I just had an idea for an all-changeling game, so I want to change my continuity to accommodate them in a way that I am comfortable with.
Millenia 02-09-08, 08:17 PM	Also note that even though changelings exist and some people would be concerned about crimes they may commit, Bob the baker isn't going to worry about someone pretending to be his wife. After all, what would a changeling gain by pretending to be his wife? Free meat, and a bit of cash. If anything, only the rich and powerful are going to be -really- concerned about changelings. Then again, that's just what I think. >>a
Shady314 02-18-08, 06:39 AM	but how often will you bump into a cityguard capable of casting the level 5-7 True Seeing required to reveal a changeling? Discern Shapechanger Divination Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Wu Jen 3 Components: V, S, M Spell Resistance: No Source: Complete Arcane Publisher: Wizards of the Coast It's bounced around in a number of publications besides Complete Arcane. Third level while rare is easier to get a hold of than True Seeing. Everyone also seems to be forgetting Nystul's Magical Aura is a simple and effective way to beat detect magic. In the SRD it's just called Magic Aura. Lvl 1 spell. Suddenly a hat of disguise and similar aren't so easily foiled. Then there are the magical ways to compel someone to tell the truth most people arrested are going to face. Then there are the regular humans with a disguise kit that can do this. Sure they'd have to have a lot of skill but so do changelings to fool any close friends into buying the impersonation. Then there's the simple non-magical ways of catching impersonators. Assuming they don't have any sort of telepathy. Passwords, signatures, questioning them about personal issues/matters. "I look just like Bob so please give me all the money in my account no questions" asked isn't really going to fly. As for the city guard well if you commit a crime right in front of them and they arrest you your disguise isn't going to help much. As for using it to frame someone it's probably going to be pretty easy to prove your innocence and guards will be wary of this fact. Their ability sounds a lot kewler than it really is. It's really more of a novelty. If I were a DnD commoner I'm just not seeing where my fear should come from. I'd be way more worried about the warforged built for war and killing people that can crush my head with his hand and appears to be mentally unstable. The plethora of monstrous forces in the world. Criminals who may or may not be changelings. Magical beasts. Mundane beasts. The Last War starting again. And you want me to worry about the guy that can look like me? What is he going to steal my life so he can work all day on the farm or something?
AlHazred 02-18-08, 10:10 AM	To paraphrase Star Wars Episode IV, "The ability to change form is insignificant next to to power that caused the Mourning."
davethebrave371 02-23-08, 01:41 PM	In Breland, changelings make up 4% of the population...In Aundair, changelings make up 2% of the population...Meanwhile, in Thrane and Karrnath, changelings don't make up a statistically significant percentage of the population - they fall into the "other" category (3% for Thrane, 4% for Karrnath, but including MANY races). In line with this, I have lots of Cyran refugees being changelings, and have put, in my mind at least, Cyre as having had maybe up to 10% of pop being changelings pre-Mourning. Changelings make incredible performance artists, and Cyre was very art-centric, but aside from that, it makes for a recent history reason as well as a deep-seated cultural reason for a changeling to favour the rogue class and rogue-like activities. I think a good 75% of changelings my group has met have been from Cyre. Two changeling PCs that have been in the group at one time (one dead, one who has abandoned the party for loftier things with the Gatekeepers) have been from an all-changeling community in Droaam and the deep Eldeen, respectively. But for the most part, unless the changeling they're meeting is from a particular org, they are generally from Cyre or what is now Valenar/Darguun (example, the Dark Lantern changeling is probably Brelish and the EC footsoldier is likely a Karrn changeling).