Argent Fist weapon choices [Archive] - Wizards Community

Argent Fist weapon choices [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rjsilverthorn
12-16-07, 08:45 PM So I'm considering taking my Paladin into the Argent Fist prestige class, (Faiths of Eberron) and I'm trying to decide what my best weapon choice would be. I'm going to take the decisive strike variant over flurry of blows, since you can use DS while wearing armor.

Since my feats are limited I'm trying to find the best weapon to use that doesn't require taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency or a feat that lets you use a normal weapon as a monk weapon.

Any opinions?
Kreistor2
12-17-07, 03:21 AM They're all crud. The best you can pick is a 1D6 something or other. You get better damage out of an unarmed strike. You don't lose monk unarmed strike damage in heavier armour.
rjsilverthorn
12-17-07, 06:54 AM They're all crud. The best you can pick is a 1D6 something or other. You get better damage out of an unarmed strike. You don't lose monk unarmed strike damage in heavier armour.

Well that was largely my take, but occasionally I've seen people mention weapons I wasn't familiar with, so I was hoping there was something decent out there I was missing.

Unarmed was always an option, but it seemed a bit out of character for what is essentially still a Paladin class.
Kreistor2
12-18-07, 10:18 PM Not as far as I know. If you did unarmed strike damage with monk weapons (another system does this, but in DnD you don't), then it would make sense to worry about weapons. But the absurd difference between monk unarmed and their weapons pretty much dooms the weapons. Monk weapons can be good for tripping or disarming, but for beating people up, you just want a foot in their face.
clayball
12-25-07, 06:19 PM There is nothing wrong with an argent fist using his unarmed strike. It is a requirement for the prestisge class and the idea of a fully armoured paladin beating somebody up with his bare hands is kind of funny.
rjsilverthorn
12-25-07, 07:26 PM I know there is nothing wrong with it, it just wasn't the plan I really had for the character. She is currently carrying a katana during her paladin levels, but she hasn't taken EWP or WF for it yet, so she isn't committed to it in any way.
Edymnion
12-26-07, 02:21 PM A monk carrying weapons does have an advantage, actually.
It makes it *MUCH* easier to bypass damage reduction if you can carry slashing/piercing weapons to go along with your bludgeoning hands and feet, not to mention things like special materials.

But they tend to be niche weapons, usable in certain situations, not all the time.
aelryinth
12-26-07, 03:23 PM So I'm considering taking my Paladin into the Argent Fist prestige class, (Faiths of Eberron) and I'm trying to decide what my best weapon choice would be. I'm going to take the decisive strike variant over flurry of blows, since you can use DS while wearing armor.

Since my feats are limited I'm trying to find the best weapon to use that doesn't require taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency or a feat that lets you use a normal weapon as a monk weapon.

Any opinions?

DS subs for flurry of blows as an alternate class ability. Where does it say you can use it while in armor? basically you'd just put in DS where it says 'flurry' in any restrictions...and that includes the no armor thing. You'd have to have a very permissive DM to get away with the 'wear armor' logic, as both abilities are designed to give you a different chance to increase your damage. DS is NOT designed to let you up your damage while wearing armor.

===Aelryinth
rjsilverthorn
12-26-07, 04:01 PM I'm basing it on the fact that every other monk ability that requires the monk to be unarmored states so explicitly in the description. Flurry of Blows starts "When unarmored". Nothing in the Decisive Strike entry in the PHB2 says that it only works while unarmored and there is nothing in the PHB2 errata indicating otherwise.

As for my character specifically, my DM interprets it the same way, and thats really all it takes.
LunarWolfPrime
01-17-08, 01:25 PM About the whole weapon vs unarmed damage deal was their not a weapon some kama that was part of set that showed up in the item conpendium that allowed you to add your unarmed damage to it. Their is also a shifter feat called savage or beastley fist that allows you to add your natural atk damage to your unarmed dmage and you grap checks. I am personaly concidering playing one my self. I wonder if you could make th kamas out of shiftsilver?:D (this is my material of choice ok:P )
rjsilverthorn
01-17-08, 02:30 PM About the whole weapon vs unarmed damage deal was their not a weapon some kama that was part of set that showed up in the item conpendium that allowed you to add your unarmed damage to it. Their is also a shifter feat called savage or beastley fist that allows you to add your natural atk damage to your unarmed dmage and you grap checks. I am personaly concidering playing one my self. I wonder if you could make th kamas out of shiftsilver?:D (this is my material of choice ok:P )

There is a Kama from a set in the Magic Item Compendium that deals your unarmed damage. Away from my books at the moment so the best I can recall is that its got Scorpion in the name ;).

Currently I'm working with my DM on modifying the Argent Fist, since we aren't actually playing in Eberron, just using the Eberron rules. I gave up the damage against outsiders and lycanthropes (she's a paladin of Pelor so focusing on the undead seemed thematically correct) and changed the Cold Iron Ki Strike to Good. Going to try and convince him to let me pick a single weapon when I enter the class to treat as a special monk weapon. That or getting one of the feats that lets you flurry with a specific weapon as a bonus feat.
LunarWolfPrime
01-18-08, 04:14 PM You might be refering to unorthidox flurry feat.
kelvinaw273
01-19-08, 12:47 PM A monk carrying weapons does have an advantage, actually.
It makes it *MUCH* easier to bypass damage reduction if you can carry slashing/piercing weapons to go along with your bludgeoning hands and feet, not to mention things like special materials.

But they tend to be niche weapons, usable in certain situations, not all the time.

Versatile Unarmed Strike feat allows you to deal bludgeoning, slashing or piercing damage with unarmed strikes.

My advice is take the cash from those heavy weapons and armor and invest in an Amulet of Mighty Fists enchanted the way you want it, the only weapon you want to hang onto is your longbow - for which you can take Zen Archery.
rjsilverthorn
01-19-08, 02:02 PM Versatile Unarmed Strike feat allows you to deal bludgeoning, slashing or piercing damage with unarmed strikes.

My advice is take the cash from those heavy weapons and armor and invest in an Amulet of Mighty Fists enchanted the way you want it, the only weapon you want to hang onto is your longbow - for which you can take Zen Archery.

Well in my case, it wasn't about overcoming the damage reduction, it was the flavor of playing a monk/paladin hybrid that had me looking at a weapon. Versatile unarmed strike is a help, but it doesn't answer all types of DR and given the limited number of feats a monk has, I can see why some people might want a different option.

As for the amulet, its not a bad option but it does take up the neck slot which might otherwise be spent on something else.
LunarWolfPrime
01-19-08, 05:18 PM why doesn't some one make a martial art fighting style for silver flame monks only?
kelvinaw273
01-20-08, 09:37 AM There are lots of Eberron feats that allow a monk to use various weapons as Monk weapons so that they can Flurry with them, and you could adapt the weapon from the Magic Item Compendium to a different form so you could, say, take Whirling Steel Strike and use it with added monk damage to a special longsword. Or invent a feat and run it by your DM to use your Katana that way ...
LunarWolfPrime
01-20-08, 03:07 PM Is thish what you are looking for:

Unorthodox Flurry

You are trained in a monastic tradition that uses nontraditional weapons.

Prerequisite: Flurry of blows ability.
Benefit: Choose one light weapon. You become proficient with that weapon and can use it as a special monk weapon. You can use your unarmed base attack when striking with it, including your more favorable number of attacks per round.You can also make a flurry of blows attack with this weapon. (You cannot choose a light exotic weapon unless you already have proficiency with that weapon.)
Normal: Without this feat, monks only gain these benefits with specific weapons: the kama, siangham, or nunchaku.

If you ever have feat probs look here
http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml

or Crystal Keep

I hope this helps you out man.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rjsilverthorn 12-16-07, 08:45 PM	So I'm considering taking my Paladin into the Argent Fist prestige class, (Faiths of Eberron) and I'm trying to decide what my best weapon choice would be. I'm going to take the decisive strike variant over flurry of blows, since you can use DS while wearing armor. Since my feats are limited I'm trying to find the best weapon to use that doesn't require taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency or a feat that lets you use a normal weapon as a monk weapon. Any opinions?
Kreistor2 12-17-07, 03:21 AM	They're all crud. The best you can pick is a 1D6 something or other. You get better damage out of an unarmed strike. You don't lose monk unarmed strike damage in heavier armour.
rjsilverthorn 12-17-07, 06:54 AM	They're all crud. The best you can pick is a 1D6 something or other. You get better damage out of an unarmed strike. You don't lose monk unarmed strike damage in heavier armour. Well that was largely my take, but occasionally I've seen people mention weapons I wasn't familiar with, so I was hoping there was something decent out there I was missing. Unarmed was always an option, but it seemed a bit out of character for what is essentially still a Paladin class.
Kreistor2 12-18-07, 10:18 PM	Not as far as I know. If you did unarmed strike damage with monk weapons (another system does this, but in DnD you don't), then it would make sense to worry about weapons. But the absurd difference between monk unarmed and their weapons pretty much dooms the weapons. Monk weapons can be good for tripping or disarming, but for beating people up, you just want a foot in their face.
clayball 12-25-07, 06:19 PM	There is nothing wrong with an argent fist using his unarmed strike. It is a requirement for the prestisge class and the idea of a fully armoured paladin beating somebody up with his bare hands is kind of funny.
rjsilverthorn 12-25-07, 07:26 PM	I know there is nothing wrong with it, it just wasn't the plan I really had for the character. She is currently carrying a katana during her paladin levels, but she hasn't taken EWP or WF for it yet, so she isn't committed to it in any way.
Edymnion 12-26-07, 02:21 PM	A monk carrying weapons does have an advantage, actually. It makes it MUCH easier to bypass damage reduction if you can carry slashing/piercing weapons to go along with your bludgeoning hands and feet, not to mention things like special materials. But they tend to be niche weapons, usable in certain situations, not all the time.
aelryinth 12-26-07, 03:23 PM	So I'm considering taking my Paladin into the Argent Fist prestige class, (Faiths of Eberron) and I'm trying to decide what my best weapon choice would be. I'm going to take the decisive strike variant over flurry of blows, since you can use DS while wearing armor. Since my feats are limited I'm trying to find the best weapon to use that doesn't require taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency or a feat that lets you use a normal weapon as a monk weapon. Any opinions? DS subs for flurry of blows as an alternate class ability. Where does it say you can use it while in armor? basically you'd just put in DS where it says 'flurry' in any restrictions...and that includes the no armor thing. You'd have to have a very permissive DM to get away with the 'wear armor' logic, as both abilities are designed to give you a different chance to increase your damage. DS is NOT designed to let you up your damage while wearing armor. ===Aelryinth
rjsilverthorn 12-26-07, 04:01 PM	I'm basing it on the fact that every other monk ability that requires the monk to be unarmored states so explicitly in the description. Flurry of Blows starts "When unarmored". Nothing in the Decisive Strike entry in the PHB2 says that it only works while unarmored and there is nothing in the PHB2 errata indicating otherwise. As for my character specifically, my DM interprets it the same way, and thats really all it takes.
LunarWolfPrime 01-17-08, 01:25 PM	About the whole weapon vs unarmed damage deal was their not a weapon some kama that was part of set that showed up in the item conpendium that allowed you to add your unarmed damage to it. Their is also a shifter feat called savage or beastley fist that allows you to add your natural atk damage to your unarmed dmage and you grap checks. I am personaly concidering playing one my self. I wonder if you could make th kamas out of shiftsilver?:D (this is my material of choice ok:P )
rjsilverthorn 01-17-08, 02:30 PM	About the whole weapon vs unarmed damage deal was their not a weapon some kama that was part of set that showed up in the item conpendium that allowed you to add your unarmed damage to it. Their is also a shifter feat called savage or beastley fist that allows you to add your natural atk damage to your unarmed dmage and you grap checks. I am personaly concidering playing one my self. I wonder if you could make th kamas out of shiftsilver?:D (this is my material of choice ok:P ) There is a Kama from a set in the Magic Item Compendium that deals your unarmed damage. Away from my books at the moment so the best I can recall is that its got Scorpion in the name ;). Currently I'm working with my DM on modifying the Argent Fist, since we aren't actually playing in Eberron, just using the Eberron rules. I gave up the damage against outsiders and lycanthropes (she's a paladin of Pelor so focusing on the undead seemed thematically correct) and changed the Cold Iron Ki Strike to Good. Going to try and convince him to let me pick a single weapon when I enter the class to treat as a special monk weapon. That or getting one of the feats that lets you flurry with a specific weapon as a bonus feat.
LunarWolfPrime 01-18-08, 04:14 PM	You might be refering to unorthidox flurry feat.
kelvinaw273 01-19-08, 12:47 PM	A monk carrying weapons does have an advantage, actually. It makes it MUCH easier to bypass damage reduction if you can carry slashing/piercing weapons to go along with your bludgeoning hands and feet, not to mention things like special materials. But they tend to be niche weapons, usable in certain situations, not all the time. Versatile Unarmed Strike feat allows you to deal bludgeoning, slashing or piercing damage with unarmed strikes. My advice is take the cash from those heavy weapons and armor and invest in an Amulet of Mighty Fists enchanted the way you want it, the only weapon you want to hang onto is your longbow - for which you can take Zen Archery.
rjsilverthorn 01-19-08, 02:02 PM	Versatile Unarmed Strike feat allows you to deal bludgeoning, slashing or piercing damage with unarmed strikes. My advice is take the cash from those heavy weapons and armor and invest in an Amulet of Mighty Fists enchanted the way you want it, the only weapon you want to hang onto is your longbow - for which you can take Zen Archery. Well in my case, it wasn't about overcoming the damage reduction, it was the flavor of playing a monk/paladin hybrid that had me looking at a weapon. Versatile unarmed strike is a help, but it doesn't answer all types of DR and given the limited number of feats a monk has, I can see why some people might want a different option. As for the amulet, its not a bad option but it does take up the neck slot which might otherwise be spent on something else.
LunarWolfPrime 01-19-08, 05:18 PM	why doesn't some one make a martial art fighting style for silver flame monks only?
kelvinaw273 01-20-08, 09:37 AM	There are lots of Eberron feats that allow a monk to use various weapons as Monk weapons so that they can Flurry with them, and you could adapt the weapon from the Magic Item Compendium to a different form so you could, say, take Whirling Steel Strike and use it with added monk damage to a special longsword. Or invent a feat and run it by your DM to use your Katana that way ...
LunarWolfPrime 01-20-08, 03:07 PM	Is thish what you are looking for: Unorthodox Flurry You are trained in a monastic tradition that uses nontraditional weapons. Prerequisite: Flurry of blows ability. Benefit: Choose one light weapon. You become proficient with that weapon and can use it as a special monk weapon. You can use your unarmed base attack when striking with it, including your more favorable number of attacks per round.You can also make a flurry of blows attack with this weapon. (You cannot choose a light exotic weapon unless you already have proficiency with that weapon.) Normal: Without this feat, monks only gain these benefits with specific weapons: the kama, siangham, or nunchaku. If you ever have feat probs look here http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml or Crystal Keep I hope this helps you out man.