Armbow proficiency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Armbow proficiency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheKeyofE
05-28-07, 01:02 AM Does the Armbow (ECS, pg 268) require Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Light Repeating Crossbow) to use? It doesn't explicitly say, but I would guess that it does. HOWEVER, the Armblade right above it specifically states that the wielder needs EWP (Bastard Sword) to use it, which causes confusion in my mind. If they both need EWP, why does one say it and the other does not?

Any ideas? Is this clarified somewhere and I just missed it?
tallric_kruush
05-28-07, 01:40 PM Does the Armbow (ECS, pg 268) require Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Light Repeating Crossbow) to use? It doesn't explicitly say, but I would guess that it does. HOWEVER, the Armblade right above it specifically states that the wielder needs EWP (Bastard Sword) to use it, which causes confusion in my mind. If they both need EWP, why does one say it and the other does not?

Any ideas? Is this clarified somewhere and I just missed it?

The Armblade needs EWP (bastard sword) because it essentially is a bastard sword. Were it a standard b-sword, one could wield it two-handed without the EWP feat. Since that isn't an option here, the feat is required. (Unless you want to take a -4 penalty to attack).

I would say the EWP (repeating light crossbow) feat makes sense for the Armbow. Afterall, the same character couldn't pick up the non-component version and use it proficiently. Perhaps the feat requirement was just overlooked in the ECS entry.

The other possibility is that the component functions as a repeating crossbow, but is simpler to use (much like a standard crossbow) since it loads with no effort on the PC's part. In this case, Weapon Proficiency (light crossbow) would do the trick. This is the way I'd go if the choice were mine. The character's paying 20,000 gp to get the repeating effect. (The only reason the handheld repeating crossbow takes an EWP feat is to balance the clear advantage it has over the standard version. It shouldn't be that much more difficult to use in the real world.)

So, you can go either way. I'd require proficiency with the light crossbow, but a case can be made for EWP.
MageWeasel
05-28-07, 02:35 PM And actually, the only advantages an Armbow has over the standard light repeater is that you don't have to spend full round actions to reload the magazine after 5 shots. However, unlike the repeater, it requires a standard action to fire, which means most can shoot it only once per round.

It's because of this limitation that I don't require EWP. But, I also have a better version that can fire multiple shots in a round for which EWP is required.
TheKeyofE
05-28-07, 06:22 PM The other possibility is that the component functions as a repeating crossbow, but is simpler to use (much like a standard crossbow) since it loads with no effort on the PC's part. In this case, Weapon Proficiency (light crossbow) would do the trick. This is the way I'd go if the choice were mine. The character's paying 20,000 gp to get the repeating effect.

This makes sense. A normal +2 Repeating Crossbow would only cost 8,500-ish, so the extra 11,500 gp pays for your proficiency, and the fact that it reloads automatically. I'll check with my DM, but this is probably the ruling we'll use. Thanks for your input.
tallric_kruush
05-28-07, 09:10 PM This makes sense. A normal +2 Repeating Crossbow would only cost 8,500-ish, so the extra 11,500 gp pays for your proficiency, and the fact that it reloads automatically. I'll check with my DM, but this is probably the ruling we'll use. Thanks for your input.

Glad I could help.:tiphat:
kentonblack
05-28-07, 10:59 PM This makes sense. A normal +2 Repeating Crossbow would only cost 8,500-ish, so the extra 11,500 gp pays for your proficiency, and the fact that it reloads automatically. I'll check with my DM, but this is probably the ruling we'll use. Thanks for your input.

dont forget about that arrow making ability. thats pretty nice for 10k!
RogueElement
05-28-07, 11:34 PM Since we're on the subject, why does a repeating crossbow require an exotic weapon proficiency anyways? Doesn't it seem like the repeating crossbow would require less proficiency? It seems to me that a repeating crossbow should be part of the Martial Weapons or maybe even the Simple Weapons group. Same with the hand crossbow.
keropie
05-28-07, 11:49 PM It's quite simple.... if it's better than a simple weapon, it's a martial weapon. If it's better than a martial weapon, it's an exotic weapon. There's actually a formula somewhere involving things like the number of hands, rate of fire (for ranged weapons), crit multiplier, and crit range. But essentially the classification of Simple vs. Martial vs. Exotic is a balance issue, even though most Exotic weapons are questionably good at best.
tallric_kruush
05-29-07, 05:53 PM Since we're on the subject, why does a repeating crossbow require an exotic weapon proficiency anyways? Doesn't it seem like the repeating crossbow would require less proficiency? It seems to me that a repeating crossbow should be part of the Martial Weapons or maybe even the Simple Weapons group. Same with the hand crossbow.

As keriopie said, it's a game-balance issue. Yes, the repeating crossbow is just as easy, likely easier, to use than a regular crossbow. That said, no one would ever use the standard crossbow with the better alternative readily available. Clearly, the designers thought that the repeating crossbow was a little too good to be a simple or martial weapon.
Runepriest
06-01-07, 09:21 PM There's actually a formula somewhere involving things like the number of hands, rate of fire (for ranged weapons), crit multiplier, and crit range.

Check Edymion's sig. Weapon Balance guide.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheKeyofE 05-28-07, 01:02 AM	Does the Armbow (ECS, pg 268) require Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Light Repeating Crossbow) to use? It doesn't explicitly say, but I would guess that it does. HOWEVER, the Armblade right above it specifically states that the wielder needs EWP (Bastard Sword) to use it, which causes confusion in my mind. If they both need EWP, why does one say it and the other does not? Any ideas? Is this clarified somewhere and I just missed it?
tallric_kruush 05-28-07, 01:40 PM	Does the Armbow (ECS, pg 268) require Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Light Repeating Crossbow) to use? It doesn't explicitly say, but I would guess that it does. HOWEVER, the Armblade right above it specifically states that the wielder needs EWP (Bastard Sword) to use it, which causes confusion in my mind. If they both need EWP, why does one say it and the other does not? Any ideas? Is this clarified somewhere and I just missed it? The Armblade needs EWP (bastard sword) because it essentially is a bastard sword. Were it a standard b-sword, one could wield it two-handed without the EWP feat. Since that isn't an option here, the feat is required. (Unless you want to take a -4 penalty to attack). I would say the EWP (repeating light crossbow) feat makes sense for the Armbow. Afterall, the same character couldn't pick up the non-component version and use it proficiently. Perhaps the feat requirement was just overlooked in the ECS entry. The other possibility is that the component functions as a repeating crossbow, but is simpler to use (much like a standard crossbow) since it loads with no effort on the PC's part. In this case, Weapon Proficiency (light crossbow) would do the trick. This is the way I'd go if the choice were mine. The character's paying 20,000 gp to get the repeating effect. (The only reason the handheld repeating crossbow takes an EWP feat is to balance the clear advantage it has over the standard version. It shouldn't be that much more difficult to use in the real world.) So, you can go either way. I'd require proficiency with the light crossbow, but a case can be made for EWP.
MageWeasel 05-28-07, 02:35 PM	And actually, the only advantages an Armbow has over the standard light repeater is that you don't have to spend full round actions to reload the magazine after 5 shots. However, unlike the repeater, it requires a standard action to fire, which means most can shoot it only once per round. It's because of this limitation that I don't require EWP. But, I also have a better version that can fire multiple shots in a round for which EWP is required.
TheKeyofE 05-28-07, 06:22 PM	The other possibility is that the component functions as a repeating crossbow, but is simpler to use (much like a standard crossbow) since it loads with no effort on the PC's part. In this case, Weapon Proficiency (light crossbow) would do the trick. This is the way I'd go if the choice were mine. The character's paying 20,000 gp to get the repeating effect. This makes sense. A normal +2 Repeating Crossbow would only cost 8,500-ish, so the extra 11,500 gp pays for your proficiency, and the fact that it reloads automatically. I'll check with my DM, but this is probably the ruling we'll use. Thanks for your input.
tallric_kruush 05-28-07, 09:10 PM	This makes sense. A normal +2 Repeating Crossbow would only cost 8,500-ish, so the extra 11,500 gp pays for your proficiency, and the fact that it reloads automatically. I'll check with my DM, but this is probably the ruling we'll use. Thanks for your input. Glad I could help.:tiphat:
kentonblack 05-28-07, 10:59 PM	This makes sense. A normal +2 Repeating Crossbow would only cost 8,500-ish, so the extra 11,500 gp pays for your proficiency, and the fact that it reloads automatically. I'll check with my DM, but this is probably the ruling we'll use. Thanks for your input. dont forget about that arrow making ability. thats pretty nice for 10k!
RogueElement 05-28-07, 11:34 PM	Since we're on the subject, why does a repeating crossbow require an exotic weapon proficiency anyways? Doesn't it seem like the repeating crossbow would require less proficiency? It seems to me that a repeating crossbow should be part of the Martial Weapons or maybe even the Simple Weapons group. Same with the hand crossbow.
keropie 05-28-07, 11:49 PM	It's quite simple.... if it's better than a simple weapon, it's a martial weapon. If it's better than a martial weapon, it's an exotic weapon. There's actually a formula somewhere involving things like the number of hands, rate of fire (for ranged weapons), crit multiplier, and crit range. But essentially the classification of Simple vs. Martial vs. Exotic is a balance issue, even though most Exotic weapons are questionably good at best.
tallric_kruush 05-29-07, 05:53 PM	Since we're on the subject, why does a repeating crossbow require an exotic weapon proficiency anyways? Doesn't it seem like the repeating crossbow would require less proficiency? It seems to me that a repeating crossbow should be part of the Martial Weapons or maybe even the Simple Weapons group. Same with the hand crossbow. As keriopie said, it's a game-balance issue. Yes, the repeating crossbow is just as easy, likely easier, to use than a regular crossbow. That said, no one would ever use the standard crossbow with the better alternative readily available. Clearly, the designers thought that the repeating crossbow was a little too good to be a simple or martial weapon.
Runepriest 06-01-07, 09:21 PM	There's actually a formula somewhere involving things like the number of hands, rate of fire (for ranged weapons), crit multiplier, and crit range. Check Edymion's sig. Weapon Balance guide.