Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thebestideaieverhad 02-19-07, 09:55 PM	It's high time someone devoted a thread purely to the study of the best weapon in all of D&D: the spiked chain. Monks seem like the sweetest chain-wielders to me, but without monastic training, the dreams of wielding a spiked chain to its full potential is drowned out with unarmed attacks. But with the introduction of Monastic Training, the monks could now multi-class as fighter and easily become master of the spiked chain to rule the battles. Anyone else feel the same? Or care to argue with me? :eek:
Subtle Knife 02-19-07, 10:05 PM	Usually, it comes down to initiative; in a recent battle I planned between a chain master and our party, he definitely had the tactical advantage - until he rolled last in initiative, and was beaten to a soft gooey mass. Oh and incidentally, pwnage is not a word. SK
UnderworldLord 02-19-07, 10:14 PM	Shouldn't this be on the CharOp boards?
Deus_Proelii 02-19-07, 11:03 PM	i think this point has been debated before on the standard and CO boards. the consensus was that the spiked chain is pwnage at lower levels, but at higher levels when monsters are more likely to be non-humanoids, Huge or bigger, or just plain immune to trip attacks (like Dragons), the spiked chain loses a lot of its potency. Still, I think there are good ways to keep it useful. Primarily, having a friendly arcane spellcaster to cast Enlarge and Polymorph you into bigger forms. :D
Alex_ 02-19-07, 11:18 PM	It's high time someone devoted a thread purely to the study of the best weapon in all of D&D: the spiked chain. Monks seem like the sweetest chain-wielders to me, but without monastic training, the dreams of wielding a spiked chain to its full potential is drowned out with unarmed attacks. But with the introduction of Monastic Training, the monks could now multi-class as fighter and easily become master of the spiked chain to rule the battles. Anyone else feel the same? Or care to argue with me? :eek: In Eberron, spiked chains are essentially a product of the Dhakaani Goblins. So they'll probably have to balance out the increase in power with their association of Goblins, which are not the most popular race in Eberron. I believe there's a quote in one of the Eberron books where someone is not allowed to carried their spiked chain with them on the grounds that it's a "filthy Goblin weapon." It's almost like a non-Valenar Elf walking around with a double scimitar or encountering a Drow while you're carrying a Drow boomerang.
goblin_pride 02-19-07, 11:53 PM	I believe there's a quote in one of the Eberron books where someone is not allowed to carried their spiked chain with them on the grounds that it's a "filthy Goblin weapon." Yeah, remember that, those filthy hobgobs and bugbears wielding a length of spiky chain. You just might not want to call it a "filthy goblin weapon" or they might crack your skull trying to get your eyes to see they aren't three feet tall.
Alex_ 02-19-07, 11:58 PM	I was actually thinking more along the lines of smaller Goblins of the Silent Knives clans using spiked chains launched from the shadows to wrap around the limbs of a hapless victim before quickly dragging them away out of sight.
goblin_pride 02-20-07, 12:20 AM	I was actually thinking more along the lines of smaller Goblins of the Silent Knives clans using spiked chains launched from the shadows to wrap around the limbs of a hapless victim before quickly dragging them away out of sight. Dragging them out of sight? There's an image, a three foot tall fellow dragging a much larger opponent all wrapped in chain away. I suppose that would make sense though, it could give them a decisive advantage but why not the knives they're named for?
UnderworldLord 02-20-07, 12:30 AM	You're stereo typing? You? Honestly Goblin_Pride, of all people to stereotype a goblinoid. I am dissapointed. :D :D JK of course.
Nived 02-20-07, 01:32 AM	As the Darguun Mauler feat suggests goblins have a cultural facination with all chain weapons. Spiked Chains, Heavy and light flails, and yes the dire flail. Combat expertise and improved trip are probably badges of honor amongst them. This also leads me to a side rant on how I think an insane goblin invented the dire flail after coming in contact with a daelkyr... but that's another topic altogether.
goblin_pride 02-20-07, 03:41 AM	As the Darguun Mauler feat suggests goblins have a cultural facination with all chain weapons. Spiked Chains, Heavy and light flails, and yes the dire flail. Combat expertise and improved trip are probably badges of honor amongst them. First, that should read goblinoids, not just goblins. My own personal take on it would be that the bugbears would be the primary chain weapon users with Hobgoblin and goblin chain-masters being rather uncommon by comparison. Chain weapons are terribly lethal and very hard to master so the ability to use them would carry a bit more status, drawing bugbears to study them as more a cultural norm. As the glory-hounds of the battlefield and the empire, the bugbears would naturally be drawn to the most prestigeous weapon of the goblinoid arsenal*. *And my writer's block just broke, expect to see a posting on the prestige of chain weapons in the No Love thread within a day or two.
Cabral 02-20-07, 08:16 AM	Actually, I prefer the chain form oriental Adventures: Choose each round whether to wield it as a double or reach weapon. :] For either version, I think a great combo is Psychic warrior (with expansion & dimension slide) or possibly a Eldritch Knight/Wu Jen (for Supersize!).
yrogerg 02-20-07, 08:25 AM	Actually, I prefer the chain form oriental Adventures: Choose each round whether to wield it as a double or reach weapon. :] For either version, I think a great combo is Psychic warrior (with expansion & dimension slide) or possibly a Eldritch Knight/Wu Jen (for Supersize!). For bonus points, make it a Half-Giant or Goliath, and wield a Gargantuan Spiked Chain. True, you don't benefit from the extra reach, but it's pretty cool.
Nived 02-20-07, 11:03 AM	First, that should read goblinoids, not just goblins. My own personal take on it would be that the bugbears would be the primary chain weapon users with Hobgoblin and goblin chain-masters being rather uncommon by comparison. Chain weapons are terribly lethal and very hard to master so the ability to use them would carry a bit more status, drawing bugbears to study them as more a cultural norm. As the glory-hounds of the battlefield and the empire, the bugbears would naturally be drawn to the most prestigeous weapon of the goblinoid arsenal*. Hey it was nearly 3 am forgive me I used the generic term goblin whne I ment goblinoid. However I disagree with you on the bugbear thing. Several reasons. First from a purely mechanical stance it would be more difficult for a bugbear to get the feats to master the spiked chain. Consider. 3HD +1 LA starts out 4th level character. Lets say this custom Bugbear chooses the feats Exotic Weapon Prof and Combat expertise. Then it goes into fighter (not a typical choice for a bugbear, whom are typically rogues or barbarians according to PGtE, RoE, and Dragonshards) 1st level of fighter he takes improved trip, 2nd level of fighter he takes dargun mauler. So now he's a 6th level character with 5 HD to be considered a 'master' with the weapon. Compared to a hob who starts as a fighter with a +1 LA 1st level takes CE and ImpT, second takes EWP Spiked Chain, third Darguun Mauler. His current ECL is 4. Same as a base Bugbear. Hobgoblins have the more martial tradition, are considered the weapons masters while Bugbears are more often berzerkers. The Heirs of Dhakaan Dragonshard even suggests changing Dhakanni Bugbears favored class to barbarian, and according to the Eberron Campaign setting the Marguul bugbears are even less diciplined. I'm not saying that a bugbear COULDN'T be a chain master, just saying they would not be the typical chain master. More often I believe they'd be focusing on the Power Attack feat tree and two handed weapons... like the EBS says. Besides this is supported by the Strike Force Dhakaan dragonshard.
goblin_pride 02-20-07, 11:49 AM	However I disagree with you on the bugbear thing. Several reasons. First from a purely mechanical stance it would be more difficult for a bugbear to get the feats to master the spiked chain. Sorry, I suppose I should've qualified my statement with a bit of the demographic I've been working from on my goblinoids. At a ratio of 5:2:1/2 for gob:hob:bug, the percentage of chain masters seems higher among the bugbears simply because there aren't nearly as many bugbears.
Roland the Crownbreaker 02-20-07, 04:58 PM	The berserker thing makes me think that a bugbear would take levels in barbarian and use the heavy flail. It has a chain, therefore he says he is a chain master. Go ahead, tell him he isn't.
UnderworldLord 02-20-07, 11:10 PM	I see the hobgoblins in their traditional role being chain masters [or perhaps the dire flail?], and the bug bears, yes, using heavy flails. Goblins might use light flails or spiked chains, but thats just my opinion.
Wymarc 02-21-07, 03:05 PM	10 foot ceiling - have fun with that chain :)
UnderworldLord 02-21-07, 03:39 PM	Have ya seen the Chain Master style PrC? I forget what book its in, but it was a wonderful PrC...
thebestideaieverhad 02-21-07, 05:18 PM	o rly, ive been making my own PrC from scratch to try and capture the all-chain style that i would like to play. I'll probably make a thread for a rough version of it, or put it on this thread within a day or so. It's largely based on the character Chainer, from the MtG book "Chainer's Torment" way back in the Odyssey cycle. That guy was about as sweet as a fictional character comes.
thebestideaieverhad 02-21-07, 05:21 PM	10 foot ceiling - have fun with that chain :) yeah definitely limited in some respects... in fact from the picture in the PHB, i really don't even understand how someone would wield it. I don't get what the 3 circles within the length of the chain are for, seems like you would only need one at most. But idk, maybe someone else can explain it to me.
UnderworldLord 02-21-07, 05:30 PM	The way I see it, you use it almost like a short lasso, but you hit the opponent with it, not rope them. Hold with two hands, spin, swing, pull back. Might be more like a whip in the respect of the swing area. As a side note, has anyone here ever actually picked up a normal chain and tried using it for a weapon? Its no wonder the spiked chain is an exotic weapon!
Edymnion 02-21-07, 06:22 PM	in fact from the picture in the PHB, i really don't even understand how someone would wield it.You don't. The picture in the PHB is the stupidest thing in the entire book. Ignore it. Blast it, I can't find that picture of the two vampires now. One was female dual weilding kamas, one was male with a spiked chain, and it looked the way its supposed to.
UnderworldLord 02-21-07, 06:25 PM	Ooh! I know the one your talking about! One minute while I find it! EDIT: Didn't find it yet, but found one also good: Complete warrior, page 111
Edymnion 02-21-07, 06:48 PM	Ooh! I know the one your talking about! One minute while I find it! EDIT: Didn't find it yet, but found one also good: Complete warrior, page 111Here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75468.jpg Its not bad, certainly better than the PHB version, but its still unweildy. The spiked links of chain go all the way down, including where you hold it. The vampire one was good because it showed the chain as being normal chain in the middle, it only had spikes on the "business ends" of the chain, along with a spiked weight.
mightyix 02-21-07, 07:33 PM	Swordchucks yo! They're better than a spiked chain. But still not as awesome as chainsawchucks. :P
Cabral 02-21-07, 07:40 PM	Blast it, I can't find that picture of the two vampires now. One was female dual weilding kamas, one was male with a spiked chain, and it looked the way its supposed to. That would be this pic (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG251.jpg) from the Monster Manual 3.5 :D
Edymnion 02-21-07, 08:30 PM	That would be this pic (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG251.jpg) from the Monster Manual 3.5 :DYes! Victory cookies for Cabral! :cookie: :cookie: THAT is a spiked chain!
thebestideaieverhad 02-21-07, 08:34 PM	YES!!! CLARITY!!! it makes much more sense without the 3 metal rings in it.... thanks a lot for linking that pic! I never noticed that anything in the MM wielded a chain before now.
UnderworldLord 02-21-07, 08:53 PM	No cookie for my other half decent picture? :weep:
Tiro 02-21-07, 09:36 PM	Cookies are a precious commodity. They cannot simply be given out for second rate pictures.
thebestideaieverhad 02-22-07, 06:52 AM	hahaha agreed. That vampire pic inspired me yesterday to page through all the core books looking for main chain wielding goodness..... sadly, there was nothing of note.:confused:
UnderworldLord 02-22-07, 10:49 AM	Which leads me to another question: I haven't seen one yet, but I'm blind as a bat when it comes to something right in front of my face. Is there an actual tactial feat for using a spiked chain?
Cabral 02-24-07, 01:18 AM	I also like the Shadar-Kai Pic form the Fiend Folio (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50110.jpg). But I think that's mostly because of the actual Shadar-Kai. In realtively close quarters (Ie, 10' cielings), I think a spiked chain is fine as a weapon. I think the way to wield one is constant motion with the chains between strikes (something like nunchucks). To attack lunge forward, letting the chain extend to it's full reach and snap it back. Kind of like Mortal Combat's Scorpion. Now, whipping it over your head while ducking is just ... uhm ... suicidal.
Tetsubo 02-25-07, 02:25 AM	That would be this pic (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG251.jpg) from the Monster Manual 3.5 :D Except that the Spiked Chain in that picture STILL has links with spikes on them. Right where the user would need to put their hands. This might work for an undead vampire but mere mortals are going to end up with bloody rags for hands... I love chain weapons. I think they are a great idea. The Spiked Chain is not how to do them however. It is pure, munchkin cheese. Example: Spiked Chains are Piercing weapons. Which means they can be used underwater. Think about that for a minute. Picture it in your head. A swinging, rotating chain... underwater... any weapon that violates basic real world mechanics in such a manner has no place in the rules...
Tetsubo 02-25-07, 02:27 AM	I also like the Shadar-Kai Pic form the Fiend Folio (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50110.jpg). But I think that's mostly because of the actual Shadar-Kai. In realtively close quarters (Ie, 10' cielings), I think a spiked chain is fine as a weapon. I think the way to wield one is constant motion with the chains between strikes (something like nunchucks). To attack lunge forward, letting the chain extend to it's full reach and snap it back. Kind of like Mortal Combat's Scorpion. Now, whipping it over your head while ducking is just ... uhm ... suicidal. This picture actually makes some sense. I might consider it a Bladed Chain rather than a Spiked Chain... I am still opposed to the Spike Chain mechanically though...
Cabral 02-25-07, 06:54 PM	I am still opposed to the Spike Chain mechanically though... Whenever it's illustrated, it's usually depicted as a double weapon rather than a reach weapon ...
Nived 02-26-07, 11:17 AM	I am still opposed to the Spike Chain mechanically though... The weird bladed ball chain thing from Kill Bill is a better representation of the weapon than that abomination in the PHB that WotC seems to force its illistrators to use whenever it's pictured.
UnderworldLord 02-26-07, 11:32 AM	I always thought of the spiked chain just being an average chain with a couple of links on the end spiked. You pick it up, whirl it diagonally and carefully, whipping it towards the target and back, like a combination maneuver for a lasso and a whip.
Edymnion 02-26-07, 12:36 PM	Except that the Spiked Chain in that picture STILL has links with spikes on them. Right where the user would need to put their hands. This might work for an undead vampire but mere mortals are going to end up with bloody rags for hands...No it doesn't, look closer. It has spikes on either end, and some spikes in the middle, but the rest of the chain is smooth and spike free. You'd fight with it by holding it at the 1/3 and 2/3 positions for close combat, and let go of one end and swing it around for the reach. To go back to close combat, you just catch the smooth section as it whips back around, and use the momentum from that head to send it arcing back at your target.
Elderich 02-26-07, 01:00 PM	I note the Kusari-Gama in the 3.5 DMG. This was errataed in the 3.0 DMG to the same weapon in OA, but that errata never made it into the 3.5 DMG, and was never errataed again. So all spiked chains bow before the mighty Kusari-Gama in the DMG.
Melvin the Mediocre 03-08-07, 11:38 AM	I note the Kusari-Gama in the 3.5 DMG. This was errataed in the 3.0 DMG to the same weapon in OA, but that errata never made it into the 3.5 DMG, and was never errataed again. So all spiked chains bow before the mighty Kusari-Gama in the DMG. I've never heard of it. Is it in the srd? My DMG went home with a player last week, so I won't have access to it for quite a while.
Cabral 03-08-07, 08:14 PM	It doesn't appear to be in the 3.5 SRD. If I'm reading the 3.0 SRD correctly, it's 3.0 stats were: Exotic Large (medium pre-errata) 10 gp reach or (and?) double weapon that deals 1d6/1d4 S/B damage (depending on how it's used). I'm guessing in the 3.5 de-erratafied version is again a reach weapon that can be dual wielded for lots of attacks with reach (if using a pair). :)
UnderworldLord 03-08-07, 08:26 PM	Well, its basiclly a Kama with a chain on it that you twirl to make trip/disarm type attacks. The idea is that you can throw the chain for reach OR use both simultaneously without reach. At least thats my understanding of it from watching Ninja Turtles :) .
Edymnion 03-08-07, 09:35 PM	Well, its basiclly a Kama with a chain on it that you twirl to make trip/disarm type attacks. The idea is that you can throw the chain for reach OR use both simultaneously without reach. At least thats my understanding of it from watching Ninja Turtles :) .Or for a more modern "mainstream" example, Sango's brother Kohaku uses a Kusari-Gama as his signature weapon.
UnderworldLord 03-09-07, 07:09 PM	Actually, you see them more in the more recent series of it, as used by Karai and the Foot Clan. I can't honestly say I recall them from the old series at all, though its possible they were used there as well. And you blaspheme to call Ninja Turtles non-modern, nor mainstream! *holds up holy turtle shell symbol*
ChristopherGroves 03-10-07, 09:44 AM	So it's not the Drow Scorpion Chain? Really the "best" weapons are things like the Elven Thinblade, Valenar Dual Scimitar and natural attacks. Oh and angry gnomes. Wicked weapons.
Roland the Crownbreaker 03-10-07, 07:56 PM	Oh and angry gnomes. Wicked weapons. I always thought they made better missile weapons when they were scared.
Edymnion 03-11-07, 02:29 PM	Actually, you see them more in the more recent series of it, as used by Karai and the Foot Clan. I can't honestly say I recall them from the old series at all, though its possible they were used there as well. And you blaspheme to call Ninja Turtles non-modern, nor mainstream! *holds up holy turtle shell symbol*I'm sorry, but "Ninja Turtles" = 80's cartoon. All this new one has done is redrawn and reaired the old 80's stuff with minor changes (like making Shredder and Krang into the same person).
Cabral 03-11-07, 06:17 PM	(like making Shredder and Krang into the same person). Oh god. I'm glad I have not witnessed this blasphemy of which you speak ... ... btw, I still have some of the old Eastman and Laird TMNT graphic novels (if they were called graphic novels back then). Now that's some good stuff. Not the watered down 80s cartoon (which I also liked)...
UnderworldLord 03-12-07, 12:29 AM	Granted I admittedly prefer the eighties cartoon, it did last into the nineties. Alot of the old material has been drastically changed. But I have to admit, some of it I did like.
Edymnion 03-12-07, 08:30 AM	Oh god. I'm glad I have not witnessed this blasphemy of which you speak ...Yeah, they ended the first season with Leonardo cutting off Shreddar's head, "killing" him. Which was actually pretty damned cool considering the target audience. Then later they wussed out and made him Krang by saying he was an Utron the whole time, with the brain in his stomach and the rest of the body being an android frame. Weak. Should have just let Leonardo off him and be done with it.
goblin_pride 03-12-07, 08:38 AM	Should have just let Leonardo off him and be done with it. Some people in the entertainment industry get a bit squeemish when it comes to that whole death thing. Not that their little storyline change alters anything, Leonardo apparently fully intended to kill and that little bit of information wouldn't change with the alteration to the story. Heroes don't kill, they capture, remember that, kiddies. You'll never see anything in a mainstream medium that presents a hero in an unbecoming light in that regard.
UnderworldLord 03-12-07, 09:59 PM	See, the biggest thing I have a problem with isn't the Utroms, though I admit they were kinda annoying, just like the Triceratons new incarnation was... though the species itself I liked, and am thinking of attempting to adapt them to D&D. I'm considering using base on the Blackscale Lizardfolk, or maybe those elephant people, and dropping them in Talenta. What I really didn't like was that Bishop fellow. And now that ya'll have me discussing things more, I kinda wish I could find the seasons for it on DVD...
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 03-12-07, 10:31 PM	So it's not the Drow Scorpion Chain? Really the "best" weapons are things like the Elven Thinblade, Valenar Dual Scimitar and natural attacks. Oh and angry gnomes. Wicked weapons. I played an angry gnome with natural weapons... though this was in forgotten realms. How does that rate? :D
Romulus LoneWolf 03-14-07, 11:37 PM	See, the biggest thing I have a problem with isn't the Utroms, though I admit they were kinda annoying, just like the Triceratons new incarnation was... though the species itself I liked, and am thinking of attempting to adapt them to D&D. I'm considering using base on the Blackscale Lizardfolk, or maybe those elephant people, and dropping them in Talenta. What I really didn't like was that Bishop fellow. And now that ya'll have me discussing things more, I kinda wish I could find the seasons for it on DVD... For the Triceratons, if you have Dragon #292, they have 3.0 stats for the old Saurial races of Forgotten Realms; the Bladebacks, Finheads, Flyers and Hornheads. As for the new TMNT cartoon, I considered it by far superior to the old toon, which really hasn't aged well. And I speak as someone who was raised on it as a kid. The new show especially wins points by making Raphael a badass, Michaelango a Comic Book Geek, making Shredder genuinely threatening, and sticking to the original Eastman and Laird references whenever possible. ...And then they ruined it by not airing Season 5 (which the executives at 4kids considered "too violent") and instead created "TMNT: Fast Forward", which takes a step backwards to kiddification.. Bah. ...But I think the original topic involved Spiked Chains or some such nonsense...
goblin_pride 03-15-07, 12:40 AM	...But I think the original topic involved Spiked Chains or some such nonsense... I think you might be right.
korcheck 04-06-07, 05:46 PM	for the three rings on the chain think of it like this you may hold on to one or two at a time depending on what it is you are going to do. to make it a duel weilded weapon you would hold on to the two end rings swinging the ends like a flail (think of a jump rope backwards) (these rings may also be used as fist weapons in close quarters) you can follow up with a reach attack which happens by releasing one ring sort of like you do with a hand sling, when you retracked it you bring it around your back and the center ring moves to the center of your back catching the other ring in your oppisite hand follow this up by swinging back to the front of your body as another attack. There is also a more difficult attack in which you make a modified reach attack holding the center ring but this leaves you open to AoO's. these are only the "easy manuevers" that can be acomplished so you can imagine why this would ba an exotic weapon. P.S. I saw this in some old kung fu flicks I am not an expert so take this how you want to.
shadowsofwhite 04-09-07, 02:10 PM	The three rings is a suicidal addition to a chain if you were to use it as a weapon, due to that it leaves a bit of slack on your end of the chain to flail around and castrate you (having a loose end of chain on your side is obviously stupid, lest you are a true master of the weapon). I, as a DM, have made rule that the spiked chain is a bludgeoning AND piercing weapon, preventing it from use abuse below the waters' surface. In addition, I have also made use of the Chain Lash from SS, upping its damage to 2d4, as it should be in association with the spiked chain. I believe I am going to drop the idea of the spiked chain overall and allow nothing but the Chain Lash, allowing for the weight to be swapped out with a hook or similarly wicked implement. Otherwise, you could weild a 1d6 chain with no weight implements. For some of you who are giving "advice" on fighting tactics and techniques with the chain, I advise you specific people never use the chain as a weapon for you are lively to render yourself incapacitated. If a chain weighed less, it would be used closer to a whip, but its weight restricts its use in such a manner, though its malleability allows its whip-like use in tight spaces (not exactly a place a chainer would want to be in the first place).
Nived 04-09-07, 02:47 PM	I don't have any weapon training whatsoever, and I can't speak to realism.... but heck I decided to search youtube for chain weapon demonstrations, and it makes me further believe that the Spiked Chain as presented in the Player's Handbook is an unusable suicide chain. But I can tell you that if I saw Bugbears or Hobgoblins doing this stuff I would need a change of pants. Nice nine section chain (whip chain) demo. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u71cCjfS7S0) Another one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSt_6cUHLYU&mode=related&search=) This one gets points for doing it in the rain. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jhYvAwISKs) I can't find anything even remotely resembling the spiked chain as presented in the Players Handbook.
korcheck 04-09-07, 03:08 PM	The three rings is a suicidal addition to a chain if you were to use it as a weapon, due to that it leaves a bit of slack on your end of the chain to flail around and castrate you (having a loose end of chain on your side is obviously stupid, lest you are a true master of the weapon). I, as a DM, have made rule that the spiked chain is a bludgeoning AND piercing weapon, preventing it from use abuse below the waters' surface. In addition, I have also made use of the Chain Lash from SS, upping its damage to 2d4, as it should be in association with the spiked chain. I believe I am going to drop the idea of the spiked chain overall and allow nothing but the Chain Lash, allowing for the weight to be swapped out with a hook or similarly wicked implement. Otherwise, you could weild a 1d6 chain with no weight implements. For some of you who are giving "advice" on fighting tactics and techniques with the chain, I advise you specific people never use the chain as a weapon for you are lively to render yourself incapacitated. If a chain weighed less, it would be used closer to a whip, but its weight restricts its use in such a manner, though its malleability allows its whip-like use in tight spaces (not exactly a place a chainer would want to be in the first place). who said anything about giving advise what I stated is how I remember it from a movie thus realism is out the freakin window right after the flying poodles (UHF). Also FYI, if this is a FANTASY game then realism should be taken at face value I agree in real life you may well castrate yourself playing with half the damn weapons in the books i.e. any of the double weapons but it sounds cool on paper. :D
shadowsofwhite 04-13-07, 02:24 PM	I bring realism into the equasion because many players (myself included) like to image their characters acting out the battles in which they participate.
korcheck 04-13-07, 04:34 PM	I bring realism into the equasion because many players (myself included) like to image their characters acting out the battles in which they participate. Good point.
Forgivance 04-20-07, 12:53 PM	Original poster said spiked chain good... I say Improved Sunder is better... I was running a game, and the group was in a vast underground complex of ancient hobgoblin make. A portion was a natural cavern that dwarfed the three story stout buildings crafted inside of it, and throughout was an odd glow from fungus. Anyhow, the players turned a corner to a cornugun (horned devil) with a level of Soul Eater using a number of grimlocks (they just wandered in and lived there for a few years) for his soul sucking experiments...much long story shorter, than fighter/cleric in the group charges the devil, takes a bit of chain across the face, than gripping his long sword with 2-hands, he sunders the chain....SNAP!...how dissappointing. Anyhow, I feel it's an ok weapon, but dedication to one thing makes it easier for people to exploit it as a weakness.
shadowsofwhite 04-23-07, 01:59 AM	You must take into account that the devil either didn't have, or didn't make use of Improved Disarm. A horned devil with a spiked chain would most definitely be able to disarm nearly any opponent he chooses that has a disarmable weapon. Even better, the devil didn't have, or didn't make use of Improved trip! that's a nasty one.