Embedded vs. Attached Warforged Components. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Embedded vs. Attached Warforged Components. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dakkon75
03-27-07, 10:05 AM I tried doing a google search and couldn't find anything on it, so here goes. What is the main difference between the two. As I see it any magic item can be made to either attach or embed. If so with no restriction why even make attached components, as embedded components don't have to make saves. Is there a price difference, or a limit to the amount of embedded components? Please help me.

Dakkon75
UnderworldLord
03-27-07, 10:31 AM First, I'll simply direct you to ECS p268. It explains warforged components, how they take up item slots. Specific examples in the disk of energy resistance and wand sheath will show exactly how they do.

Where do you get that embedded components don't need saves? If in refence to destroyred warforged, EACH COMPONENT makes a save. Same page, second column.

As far as I can infer, the two are mechanically indifferent, only placed differently, as a wand sheath goes inside the forearm, while a battlefist goes over the hand.
dakkon75
03-27-07, 02:53 PM I seem to have not explained myself adequately. What I meant was an attached component can be targeted for sunder and can take damage on a failed save of 1, where as embedded components can only take damage if a warforged is destroyed. I see from the description what they're properties are, what I needed to know was; Is there any reason to make attached components since embedded components seem superior to them. The ECS doesn't explain the limitations on the amount of embedded components a warforged can have, if any, or a price difference, if any. I understand that they take up body slots as per magic item rules, but say for example; I have boots as a component that do haste 3/day, if I make them embedded they cannot be targeted or damaged on a roll of 1 on a failed saving throw, but if they are attached they can be. All in all both would cost the same according to the ECS but one of them would be superior as it has better protection as an item. Some would argue that attached components can be switched out but in the description it doesn't say that embedded components can't be switched out. That was what I was trying to ask in the previous post. I apologize for the lack of a clear question my only excuse is that it was early in the morning.:D

dakkon75
UnderworldLord
03-27-07, 04:39 PM Understandable, and apology well accepted. I do hope I didn't come across as rude. As far as I can tell, there is no price change. However, limitations to body slots are normally done, as per rules, unless you do hike up the price so that it will not take up a body slot.

That said, if you'll notice the difference in embedded/attached is that embedded means that they are embedded into the body, as opposed to attached on. So if your boots are attached to your feet, they are attached. But if it is a gem embedded into the bottom of the foot, they are embedded components. A bit of application of common sense lets you think out the difference.

Another note one might try to use would be the caption on page 125 of Magic of Eberron. It states "Psionic warforged components are attached to or embedded within a warforged character" (MoE, p125). Thats a bit of a fuzzy thing to take a ruling off of, but that is one example of intent.

I will try to search more books later, but hopefully someone will come up with something.
Belabras
03-27-07, 05:01 PM I believe the trade off for embedded components boils down to: You can't swap them out quickly and you can't give them to your fleshie friends to use at all.
UnderworldLord
03-27-07, 05:22 PM The thing is, unless they are a mastermaker or has the graft, your 'fleshy friends' shouldn't be using warforged components at all. And if they have the graft, they can use components for that area, if I understand it correctly, though my knowledge of grafts is most certainly top notch.

EDIT: Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any more components, beyond the ECS and MoE. I don't have SoS or SoX yet, so my best guess remains on that one component type is internal, while the other type is external.
Belabras
03-27-07, 06:25 PM Exactly. That's what I was trying to say. An embedded component is essentially a magic item that is usable only by warforged ('forged grafts and the Renegade Mastermaker aside that is).
UnderworldLord
03-27-07, 09:52 PM But a mighty arms graft would allow you to use a wand sheath, which is an embedded component, would it not? So really, embedded or attached makes no difference there.
Belabras
03-28-07, 12:22 AM Read the entry on Wand sheaths. There is one very big difference - once you have slotted a wand, you can't switch it out until that wand is out of charges.
acid_burn
03-28-07, 04:23 AM So a embeded a component you are stuck with it, attached you can change it out when ever your fell like it correct? I just want to make sure that is correct or not.
dakkon75
03-28-07, 08:07 AM Nowhere in the rules in ECS does it state that you cannot swap out embedded components.
Belabras
03-28-07, 11:56 AM Yes, you can swap out embedded components. The instance I was talking about is the Wand Sheath embedded component, which does not let you swap out wands until they are empty.
Kinger
03-29-07, 10:07 PM Here's how I see it.

Embedded components are effectively worn. An Amulet of Mighty Fists, when made into a Component, is Embedded. You can't sunder worn items, you can't sunder Embedded.

Attached components are effectively equiped. An Armblade is a weapon, hence it is attached. If you were to make an Armshield (or whatever), that'd be attached too. You can sunder equiped items (swords, wands, shields, whatever), so you can sunder Attached items (Armblades, Armbows).
UnderworldLord
03-30-07, 12:20 PM I think thats about the best way to think of it. Back to my side note on wand sheath: so what? That is only a problem if you stick in a wand that you won't be using often.
Belabras
03-30-07, 01:29 PM I think thats about the best way to think of it. Back to my side note on wand sheath: so what? That is only a problem if you stick in a wand that you won't be using often.

You asked what the difference was in that case. I pointed it out. That was all. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dakkon75 03-27-07, 10:05 AM	I tried doing a google search and couldn't find anything on it, so here goes. What is the main difference between the two. As I see it any magic item can be made to either attach or embed. If so with no restriction why even make attached components, as embedded components don't have to make saves. Is there a price difference, or a limit to the amount of embedded components? Please help me. Dakkon75
UnderworldLord 03-27-07, 10:31 AM	First, I'll simply direct you to ECS p268. It explains warforged components, how they take up item slots. Specific examples in the disk of energy resistance and wand sheath will show exactly how they do. Where do you get that embedded components don't need saves? If in refence to destroyred warforged, EACH COMPONENT makes a save. Same page, second column. As far as I can infer, the two are mechanically indifferent, only placed differently, as a wand sheath goes inside the forearm, while a battlefist goes over the hand.
dakkon75 03-27-07, 02:53 PM	I seem to have not explained myself adequately. What I meant was an attached component can be targeted for sunder and can take damage on a failed save of 1, where as embedded components can only take damage if a warforged is destroyed. I see from the description what they're properties are, what I needed to know was; Is there any reason to make attached components since embedded components seem superior to them. The ECS doesn't explain the limitations on the amount of embedded components a warforged can have, if any, or a price difference, if any. I understand that they take up body slots as per magic item rules, but say for example; I have boots as a component that do haste 3/day, if I make them embedded they cannot be targeted or damaged on a roll of 1 on a failed saving throw, but if they are attached they can be. All in all both would cost the same according to the ECS but one of them would be superior as it has better protection as an item. Some would argue that attached components can be switched out but in the description it doesn't say that embedded components can't be switched out. That was what I was trying to ask in the previous post. I apologize for the lack of a clear question my only excuse is that it was early in the morning.:D dakkon75
UnderworldLord 03-27-07, 04:39 PM	Understandable, and apology well accepted. I do hope I didn't come across as rude. As far as I can tell, there is no price change. However, limitations to body slots are normally done, as per rules, unless you do hike up the price so that it will not take up a body slot. That said, if you'll notice the difference in embedded/attached is that embedded means that they are embedded into the body, as opposed to attached on. So if your boots are attached to your feet, they are attached. But if it is a gem embedded into the bottom of the foot, they are embedded components. A bit of application of common sense lets you think out the difference. Another note one might try to use would be the caption on page 125 of Magic of Eberron. It states "Psionic warforged components are attached to or embedded within a warforged character" (MoE, p125). Thats a bit of a fuzzy thing to take a ruling off of, but that is one example of intent. I will try to search more books later, but hopefully someone will come up with something.
Belabras 03-27-07, 05:01 PM	I believe the trade off for embedded components boils down to: You can't swap them out quickly and you can't give them to your fleshie friends to use at all.
UnderworldLord 03-27-07, 05:22 PM	The thing is, unless they are a mastermaker or has the graft, your 'fleshy friends' shouldn't be using warforged components at all. And if they have the graft, they can use components for that area, if I understand it correctly, though my knowledge of grafts is most certainly top notch. EDIT: Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any more components, beyond the ECS and MoE. I don't have SoS or SoX yet, so my best guess remains on that one component type is internal, while the other type is external.
Belabras 03-27-07, 06:25 PM	Exactly. That's what I was trying to say. An embedded component is essentially a magic item that is usable only by warforged ('forged grafts and the Renegade Mastermaker aside that is).
UnderworldLord 03-27-07, 09:52 PM	But a mighty arms graft would allow you to use a wand sheath, which is an embedded component, would it not? So really, embedded or attached makes no difference there.
Belabras 03-28-07, 12:22 AM	Read the entry on Wand sheaths. There is one very big difference - once you have slotted a wand, you can't switch it out until that wand is out of charges.
acid_burn 03-28-07, 04:23 AM	So a embeded a component you are stuck with it, attached you can change it out when ever your fell like it correct? I just want to make sure that is correct or not.
dakkon75 03-28-07, 08:07 AM	Nowhere in the rules in ECS does it state that you cannot swap out embedded components.
Belabras 03-28-07, 11:56 AM	Yes, you can swap out embedded components. The instance I was talking about is the Wand Sheath embedded component, which does not let you swap out wands until they are empty.
Kinger 03-29-07, 10:07 PM	Here's how I see it. Embedded components are effectively worn. An Amulet of Mighty Fists, when made into a Component, is Embedded. You can't sunder worn items, you can't sunder Embedded. Attached components are effectively equiped. An Armblade is a weapon, hence it is attached. If you were to make an Armshield (or whatever), that'd be attached too. You can sunder equiped items (swords, wands, shields, whatever), so you can sunder Attached items (Armblades, Armbows).
UnderworldLord 03-30-07, 12:20 PM	I think thats about the best way to think of it. Back to my side note on wand sheath: so what? That is only a problem if you stick in a wand that you won't be using often.
Belabras 03-30-07, 01:29 PM	I think thats about the best way to think of it. Back to my side note on wand sheath: so what? That is only a problem if you stick in a wand that you won't be using often. You asked what the difference was in that case. I pointed it out. That was all. :)