Post/Author/DateTime	Post
evil_jester 06-02-07, 06:21 PM	a friend of mine wants to use a mech and seeing as eberron is high magic i thought of useing the forges the make warforged i want to see what other people here on the boards think about that idea.
mhacdebhandia 06-02-07, 06:30 PM	Eberron isn't really "high magic", it's more like "widespread, common magic". Powerful magical effects are still rare. That said, and knowing nothing about the specifics of The Vision of Escaflowne because I don't like anime, something like a modified warforged titan built to be controlled by a humanoid "driver" wouldn't be beyond the pale as an experimental project from the Last War. Since the creation forges were shut down by the Treaty of Thronehold, though, there would only be a limited number in existence and no more could be made now.
evil_jester 06-02-07, 06:47 PM	ok so it dosnt seem that far fechted then cuz thats the way i was going to do it by using the the warforged titan as the base for it.
Alex_ 06-02-07, 06:55 PM	Just don't let them dominate the setting. Make them something rare, just like Warforged Juggernauts, Slaughterstone Eviscerators, and other constructs and that shouldn't be much of a problem.
evil_jester 06-02-07, 07:16 PM	im just going to add a few and there go to cost a lot not sure how much yet but high enought that they wont be everywhere
Dragom 06-04-07, 02:46 AM	But please plan ahead and think of Balance. When does it run out of power? What can't the Pilot do while piloting? What skills or abilities must the Pilot have to use the Guymeliph. When the Guymeliph falls in battle does the Pilot hope out and keep going or has he already died as he shares wounds just as the Vagn and the Escaflowne did?
evil_jester 06-04-07, 03:08 AM	well i have dragon mech so i was going to use the mech rules in it for piloting the mech
Rerecros 06-04-07, 03:44 AM	The simplest method for mech suits in D&D is a suit of armor that grants enlarge person. This prettty much covers any Guymeliph. Escaflowne is something else though, the thing is like made out of bloody adamantine/mythal alloy (for D&D conversion purposes) the ability to turn into a dragon being one of it's abilities, and only a member of the royal bloodline can use it. This i wouldn't give to PCs.
evil_jester 06-04-07, 03:53 AM	thats what i was going to do for a feat make it a armor prof. and use the dragon mech book for making diffrent kinds. but using the creatsion forges makes sense right thats the main thing im more worried about.
Rerecros 06-04-07, 04:00 AM	Oh using creation forges, not really, Guymeliphs are big stupid constructs, unlike the chemically complex warforged, the forges aren't necressary, a wizard could build one in his spare time. Armored battle suits could easily fit into the last war.
evil_jester 06-04-07, 04:07 AM	oh ok i see what your saying i just thought you'd need the forges to make them and yes in the game im going to be running soon theres going to few at the beagin the as the 2nd war starts up the going to be so more.
AvonRekaes 06-04-07, 01:57 PM	The forges weren't just for making warforged. Cannith used them for other things. Also, requiring the forges in the mech's construction ensures that they're rare and not taking over the setting, as a wizard couldn't then "build one in his spare time".
Rerecros 06-04-07, 04:14 PM	Guymeliphs shouldn't be any harder to make then golems or sheild gaurdians, who have their own limiting factor, cost, which is partly why the warforgered were made. And maybe part of a dragon is needed to power these things. For that Escaflowne feel you one of your PCs should be part of the former cyrian nobility.
Darakhoranon 06-04-07, 05:00 PM	If I see any "draco-mechs" flying around and ruining my view at the sun-sets over the ocean south-east of Khorvaire, Iīll get REALLY annoyed (and hand over a few choice pieces of information about your would-be pilotīs private life to our "friends" in Zilargo!)... Seriously, though, Iīd go with the creation forges being necessary for those things - or maybe even better: only the creation forge in the Cannith HQ is capable of making them. Oh, right. Thatīs been done for since the Mourning... In other words: Only said creation forge could produce those "mechs". So now theyīre REALLY rare, nobody is really sure what they are capable of or that they didnīt have anything to do with the Mourning, everyone wants to get his/her/its hands on one (at the very least on one ONLY...), etc. At least a feat should be necessary to use one. Maybe even a 5-Lvl PrC "Mage-Titan Pilot" or something to realize the full potential of one... And if you really (really!) wanted to, you could always have the LoBster get the creation forge working well enough to build himself a brand new "mech" - should make for a climatic showdown.
evil_jester 06-04-07, 05:38 PM	ok so you guy do agree that the forges can make them good
Rerecros 06-05-07, 12:07 AM	I don't think so, except for those Zaibach Guymeliphs. There is no need to limit their number of common Guymeliphs, most Guymeliphs were just mechanized suits of armor, and would be quite common, but Escaflowne would more likely be created by some ancient half-forgotten way.
evil_jester 06-05-07, 01:49 AM	ok ive told my friend about the ideas of the forges making the Guymeliphs and i told him that they will be some what rare in game but will become more common later on
JiCi 06-05-07, 03:42 PM	Get your hands on D20 Future and use the rules for mechs, except you'll need to take out any firearms and plasma weapons. The Profession (pilot) skill could represent how the mechs could be driven. I believe there's a free document somewhere on Wizards site.
alder_zeal 06-09-07, 04:34 PM	I do not believe escflowne itself could be an available guymeloth. but al shazar's could be. or any other for that fact could be. guymeloths are nothing but extraordinary golems. Guymeloths all accpet for Escaflowne had not self control. Escaflowne could sense Vahn, through psionics. (Better detailed in the movie). The Dragon heart that he used to power Escaflowne could be thought of as eberron, siberys or khyber shard, or lastly the Shard core in races of eberron. In my Eberron, Golem Armor was a secret project devloped in cyre by cannith but the head of the project was not dragonmarked. He became "mad". Took his design prior to the day of mourning and left cyre. he live in q'barra. New Thorne is protected by golems "guymeloths". That is a small hook pc's may never see. For game mechcanics Bastion Press "Arms & Armor" revised for 3.5, has golem armor. This book is loaded with wepon and armor abilities an artificer's dream. THis book is very balanced. You can use the template for creating golems in the monster manual. Adamantine, Steel, Mithral are the suggested types most common would be steel. When giving pc's golem armor wait till 12 or so, anything before this overpowers them. Ecsaflowne is NOT idea for any pc. When repairing Escaflowne the clan who built it ask for millions just repair it. Escaflowne is EPIC. Mithral and Adamantine golems are EPIC too. at least the big ones are.
Edymnion 06-09-07, 05:21 PM	The forges weren't just for making warforged. Cannith used them for other things.Where did you read that? I don't remember ever seeing anywhere in any of the Eberron books that says the forges were used for anything but WF. People keep saying otherwise, but I've never seen an actual page referance.
alder_zeal 06-09-07, 11:11 PM	Edy dont get off track. but you are correct. Creation forges were only for wf. That said a creation forge could be used to create other types of sentient golems. but that is another discussion. side note i was like last post Edy.. thinks "NO. he is gioing to tare my post apart. looks hew dodged the bullet this time."
Edymnion 06-09-07, 11:26 PM	Edy dont get off track.Eh, I only remember it when somebody brings it up, and I'm finally calling somebody on it. But you're right, I should go make another thread for it. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=863367
AvonRekaes 06-11-07, 06:50 AM	I don't think the OP was looking to make Escaflowne EXACTLY. Also, the idea of making the mechs require a creation forge in creation is to make them rare ON PURPOSE. It's easier for a DM to swallow if he doesn't have to change the whole setting and figure out what countries used what if any mechs and how many models there are and if they're still in use etc. etc. etc. Just make them really rare, non-buildable, and you have really unique treasure for romps into the Mournland. No big change to the setting needed.
alder_zeal 06-11-07, 11:45 PM	The assumption that they are un-creatable with out a creation forge is hard to swallow. With proper feats of craft construst, craft magic arms & armor, & craft wondrous item. it is complete believable that an artificer with a lot of time on his hands could create this "Armor". The idea of using a creation forge implies to me that it has a soul, and can act with free will, without a pilot.
Sir Elton 06-12-07, 12:14 AM	Get your hands on D20 Future and use the rules for mechs. I suggest that you download d20 Mecha from the Guardians of Order website. D20 Future isn't a superior product to that one. I've made an extensive test of d20 Mecha, and they work well. Although the points could be a hassle.
evil_jester 06-12-07, 03:29 AM	i got Bastion Press "Arms & Armor" and dragon mech everything is going well with the mechs made if so that it could be made without the forge but they must have the blue prints to make them so its harder then "oh i can just make it"
Edymnion 06-13-07, 06:05 PM	The assumption that they are un-creatable with out a creation forge is hard to swallow. With proper feats of craft construst, craft magic arms & armor, & craft wondrous item. it is complete believable that an artificer with a lot of time on his hands could create this "Armor". The idea of using a creation forge implies to me that it has a soul, and can act with free will, without a pilot.Thats not the point. The point of the creation forges are that they made it EASIER to construct things like the Warforged. Its the differance between trying to make a suit of adamantine full plate by hand, and having an item that lets you cast Fabricate. Is it possible to make the plate the old fashioned way? Sure, it will just take you a major chunk of your life to accomplish. Same here. Its not saying that its completely impossible to do without one, its just that it is so difficult and time consuming as to not be worth the effort.
alder_zeal 06-13-07, 09:29 PM	evil_jester i got Bastion Press "Arms & Armor" and dragon mech everything is going well with the mechs made if so that it could be made without the forge but they must have the blue prints to make them so its harder then "oh i can just make it" Edymnion: Thats not the point. The point of the creation forges are that they made it EASIER to construct things like the Warforged. Its the differance between trying to make a suit of adamantine full plate by hand, and having an item that lets you cast Fabricate. Is it possible to make the plate the old fashioned way? Sure, it will just take you a major chunk of your life to accomplish. Same here. Its not saying that its completely impossible to do without one, its just that it is so difficult and time consuming as to not be worth the effort I agree with both of these posts. I feel however that usage of creation forge represents mass production. If that is what you want then fine. I just feel this is a campaign hook that is not wide spread. I feel unless creatively written Guymeloths/Mechs would only nuber in 100's nothing more, possibly even less. I am all for creation forges stream lining production. I am for using a blue print. In my original post i stated i use a basic idea of guymeloths in my eberron. I just think Anime, Video Games & Sci Fi utilized in Eberron should be done with care.
Lord_Madrigan 06-14-07, 02:52 AM	Heres my attempt at some lore for the Guymelefs of Escaflowne Escaflowne: The Escaflowne is a unique armor said to be crafted by Dragons and gifted to King Galifar I. there is little known about the armor other than only those of Galifar's bloodline may don the armor as it rejects all other's and is said to possess a great power. Escaflowne currently resides in thronehold waiting for the day when the heir of Galifar shall don it once again. Guymelefs: The Cannith built Guymelefs are a pale immitation armor modeled after The Escaflowne, they are however still deadly constructs. These kings of the battlefield although expensive where highly valued by army commanders durring the last war. Heavy production stopped with the advent of the sentient warforged being far more cost effective. Alseides Guymelefs: The Most powerful Guymelefs short of the Escaflowne The Alseides was commisioned by the Cyre army for there Elite units in hopes of turning the tide of the war in there favor. True terrors of the battlefield the Alseides could shoot streams of fire from either arm, cloak itself in a sheath of invisability and take flight. If cyre had managed to field several units with these armors there hopes may have come true, however as fate would have it only seven of these suits have ever been built and five of which where destroyed in the mourning as well as the means to create more of these terrors, of the last two of these armors one was given to the Throne wardens at Thronehold and the other is in the posession oF House Cannith south.
alder_zeal 06-14-07, 06:51 PM	Lord_Madrigan, that was the most thourgh and thoughtful response. kudos to you. What nation does Al Shazar swear allegiance to. What purpose do the Guymeloths serve now that the war is over. J/K about Al. I like how Cannith South has one. Old Merrix has his hands into every cookie jar. Just no characters touching cuts on their faces whining about how it hurts D'Landou
Lord_Madrigan 06-15-07, 01:02 AM	Lord_Madrigan, that was the most thourgh and thoughtful response. kudos to you. Thank you What nation does Al Shazar swear allegiance to. What purpose do the Guymeloths serve now that the war is over. J/K about Al. If he Exsisted Al Shazar might serve Either Aundair or Breland. The Guymelefs are still in use with the various nations their numbers aren't anywhere near what they were before the rise of the warforged. Go to any palace of the monarch's and you will find at least 6 as part of the palace guard. The rest are possesed by the forces of House Deneith and All of house Cannith's factions have a few on hand. You can still commision the construction of a Guymelef from house Cannith, I hope you have Deep pockets as they are expensive [aprox 40K GP give of take]. They are popular in Stormreach as anti giant infantry and even the Drow tend to think twice before taking one on. I like how Cannith South has one. Old Merrix has his hands into every cookie jar. Just no characters touching cuts on their faces whining about how it hurts D'Landou Of course Merrix would have one, he's looking into restoring Canniths ability to construct Alseides Guymelefs as he knows that Everyone will want these. The Lord of Blades is also looking into their construction as a warforged piloted Alseides would be a nightmare for any opposing army to encounter. D'Landou is currently in Dreadhold for war crimes. ;)
evil_jester 06-16-07, 01:34 AM	im very glad this thread has taken on a mind of its own. all these ideas are great and im going to try and use a lot of them
sooperspook 06-16-07, 08:05 AM	The assumption that they are un-creatable with out a creation forge is hard to swallow. With proper feats of craft construst, craft magic arms & armor, & craft wondrous item. it is complete believable that an artificer with a lot of time on his hands could create this "Armor". The idea of using a creation forge implies to me that it has a soul, and can act with free will, without a pilot. ZOMG! EVA's! :eek:
Lord_Madrigan 06-16-07, 07:02 PM	ZOMG! EVA's! :eek: Only if Cannith is stupid enough to reverse engineer a Daelkyr Construct. :eek: Oh wait, thats how the eva's came to be in the anime. :rolleyes:
TiwazTyrsfist 06-16-07, 08:43 PM	Heres my attempt at some lore for the Guymelefs of Escaflowne Escaflowne: The Escaflowne is a unique armor said to be crafted by Dragons and gifted to King Galifar I. there is little known about the armor other than only those of Galifar's bloodline may don the armor as it rejects all other's and is said to possess a great power. Escaflowne currently resides in thronehold waiting for the day when the heir of Galifar shall don it once again. Guymelefs: The Cannith built Guymelefs are a pale immitation armor modeled after The Escaflowne, they are however still deadly constructs. These kings of the battlefield although expensive where highly valued by army commanders durring the last war. Heavy production stopped with the advent of the sentient warforged being far more cost effective. Alseides Guymelefs: The Most powerful Guymelefs short of the Escaflowne The Alseides was commisioned by the Cyre army for there Elite units in hopes of turning the tide of the war in there favor. True terrors of the battlefield the Alseides could shoot streams of fire from either arm, cloak itself in a sheath of invisability and take flight. If cyre had managed to field several units with these armors there hopes may have come true, however as fate would have it only seven of these suits have ever been built and five of which where destroyed in the mourning as well as the means to create more of these terrors, of the last two of these armors one was given to the Throne wardens at Thronehold and the other is in the posession oF House Cannith south. Addition: The majority of guymelefs, being created by House Cannith, were in or arround Metrol in Cyre on the day of mourning. As such, they are mostly still lost in the Mournland. And many of those sighted in the Mournland are not quiescent...
turalisj 06-20-07, 07:15 AM	Bah, I'd rather see gundams. Who wants a fully constumized mecha-forged?! :w00t:
Archangel62 06-21-07, 08:16 AM	Some ideas: 1) Possibly use something similar to the royal family thing but with dragonmarks. Just as only Members of Orien can make the airships fly so it is with Cannith and their warmechs. Essentially you would need the dragonmark to make it function, this sort of thing could have been an experiment...not to mention a way to expand their power further. 2) Other idea might be requiring the character to be a spellcaster of some sort, this might mean that it siphons magical energy when you use it or something similar, I toyed with something like this in a campaign about a year and a half ago involving an artificer who found one of these things and often had to sacrifice infusions to make the thing work. 3) Use dragonshards as the power focus of it and use the rules from weapons of legacy for slot based legacy items and work from there.
turalisj 06-21-07, 02:46 PM	Or you can have the mechs be psionicly powered (by way of eberron dragonshards). The problem with this is you would need to import the shards from Sarlona. Basicly, the shards act as power relays. Power Points Mech Size 3 Large 5 Huge 7 Gargantuan 9 Collosal Magic weapons and armor can be bought at thier normal price (for thier size). Certain items can be made specificly for the mechs. These might include neural links (+1 insight to attack, +1 dodge to defence, +2 insight to damage), and other things...
evil_jester 06-23-07, 05:10 PM	i dont like the way psionics work in d&d that much but using the dragonmarks to use the mechs seem like that would be a really cool way to use the mechs
turalisj 06-23-07, 07:04 PM	You see, I don't like the way magic works in dnd. But that's just me. :P
Edymnion 06-30-07, 01:04 PM	Or you can have the mechs be psionicly powered (by way of eberron dragonshards). The problem with this is you would need to import the shards from Sarlona.Couple of problems there, actually. For one, Eberron shards enhance magic, not psionics. For another, there aren't any dragonshards, of any kind, in Sarlona.
Dirth 07-02-07, 01:02 PM	Hey I've been thinking of the same thing except that the Mecha are in Xen'dric and powered by Siber shards and an ancient giant tech built. Also included a Light saber like blade that deals out the same damage as a longsword of its size but is treated as a touch weapon. as far as Psionics intelegent magic items would fall under that catagory.
Lelander_the_L 07-02-07, 09:13 PM	To do that they would have to be in House Cannith since their the only one who have ever made the Warforged and they would probably have to become the new leader of House Cannith since they stopped making warforged. Or they could restart the Warforged program.....just a thought.....
turalisj 07-02-07, 09:21 PM	Didn't the giants also make the warforged?
Lelander_the_L 07-02-07, 09:22 PM	really? I hadn't heard that. Maybe I just need to shut my smartass mouth then
decembersfrost 07-02-07, 09:25 PM	Didn't the giants also make the warforged? No, not the giants. Instead it's widely speculated that the Quori may have created them before Cannith did.
Lelander_the_L 07-02-07, 09:33 PM	yes I do remember hearing that, but were getting off topic now. Perhaps if you had a large Humunculas (spelling?) you could ride it as a halfling A partly metal one like the Lord of Blades can make
SirPudding 07-08-07, 02:18 PM	I have an upcoming project about a gnome city that makes a unique form of iron golem with a hollow chest. A small pilot sits inside and give commands or moves the golem by manual controls. They are used for defense and mining and are more efficent in battle as they can change orders on the fly. The gnomish word for this type of golem is Guymelef! If your looking for rules on mech construction and combat check out Dragonmech. Though some of the mechs are to big to fit in Eberron they do have some cool contraptions powered by steam, clockwork, magic, necromancy and even human powered. Some might be forgotten prototypes of House Cannith that were scrapped as Warforged became more feasible.
hecknoshow 07-30-07, 01:00 PM	I put in mecha as the predecessor to the warforged. Created as a high power infantry(some are possibly equvilant to cavalry). They're rare now because of the warforged. A lesser version is still available to be used for labor (like a digger/JCB or forklift truck) but it's not usable in combat. All mecha has a manuverability rating that determins what it can and cant do. I created a prc for the that grants the mecha a few special abilities (very similar to the lyrandar airship captain prc in the explorers handbook)