Eternal Wands Overpriced? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Eternal Wands Overpriced? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Drachasor
05-26-07, 04:08 AM I don't play Eberron, but I do play D&D. Maybe there's something great for Artificers in Eternal Wands somewhere, but in general they seem really expensive given what they do.

They cost more than a normal wand, basically you pay for 56 charges. This might seem like a great deal for "infinite" casting, but the limitation of 2 uses per day seem extraordinarily stifling. An Eternal Wand of Cure Light Wounds, for instance, is pretty awful for an adventuring party, imho. By the time you have used 56 charges worth of CLW, you will have gained multiple levels. By that point the EW of CLW is not really healing a significant amount. You also don't have the ability to burn extra charges in emergencies (as you can with a wand of CLW).

Overall it seems very expensive given what you get out of it. If I am correct, by the guidelines in the DMG, a 5/day wand of CLW should cost as much as a wand of CLW. Now, these are just guidelines and can be woefully off (e.g. use-activated true strike), but in this case it seems about spot-on. Am I missing something here?

-Drachasor
retillin
05-26-07, 10:41 AM Dont think of Eternal Wands like you would regular ones. They have an important part in the campain setting. It helps to explain why there are so many minor magic items. It allows the NPC class "Magewright" to creat magic items that require a spell found in an Eternal Wand. (the magewright has a very very small spell selection) That being said, Eternal Wands of such things as Find Traps, or Idenitfy or most of the non-combat low level spells could be very very useful. Infact most games I DM players fall all over themselves to buy such wands as to open up more attack spells for the quests. (It really helps a sorcerer to over come the low amount of spells known)
Vharuck
05-26-07, 02:29 PM I don't play Eberron, but I do play D&D. Maybe there's something great for Artificers in Eternal Wands somewhere, but in general they seem really expensive given what they do.

They cost more than a normal wand, basically you pay for 56 charges. This might seem like a great deal for "infinite" casting, but the limitation of 2 uses per day seem extraordinarily stifling. An Eternal Wand of Cure Light Wounds, for instance, is pretty awful for an adventuring party, imho. By the time you have used 56 charges worth of CLW, you will have gained multiple levels. By that point the EW of CLW is not really healing a significant amount. You also don't have the ability to burn extra charges in emergencies (as you can with a wand of CLW).

Overall it seems very expensive given what you get out of it. If I am correct, by the guidelines in the DMG, a 5/day wand of CLW should cost as much as a wand of CLW. Now, these are just guidelines and can be woefully off (e.g. use-activated true strike), but in this case it seems about spot-on. Am I missing something here?

-Drachasor

50 charges is a normal wand, not 56.

And sometimes you'll need a certain spell no matter how high of level you are. In these cases, eternal wands are great for those spells (which end up being utility spells you don't need many times a day anyways).

Here's a list of good eternal wand spells:
Knock
Identify
Endure Elements
Unseen Servant
Drachasor
05-26-07, 09:01 PM 50 charges is a normal wand, not 56.

And sometimes you'll need a certain spell no matter how high of level you are. In these cases, eternal wands are great for those spells (which end up being utility spells you don't need many times a day anyways).

Here's a list of good eternal wand spells:
Knock
Identify
Endure Elements
Unseen Servant

Why not just get a normal wand of one of these things? There might be days you are going to need more than 2 castings, but an Eternal Wand stops you. On the other hand, you are unlikely to ever need these effects much so 50 charges might well be enough for your entire adventuring career. That said, Scrolls are probably going to be more effective in these cases, given the relative rarity of the need for such utility spells (a wand is probably just too expensive to justify).

Identify can make sense, but only because the Eternal Wand apparently is much, much, much cheaper than the normal wand (no need to pay the material component cost ever at least according to the MIC write-up).

And I said 56 charges because an Eternal Wand costs as much as a 56 charge wand.

Anyhoo, how would a wand that was 5 charges/day and cost as much as a normal wand be overpowered? I don't think it would be, even though it would be flat-out better than an Eternal Wand (except for Identify and other costly spells that eternal wands seem to get around).

If you want to think of it a different way, if Eternal Wands cost about 1/3 as much*, would that be overpowered? I don't see how. I am not saying the basic concept isn't good, I am saying the price seems too much.

-Drachasor

*After taking into account extra cost for costly components, of course.

PS. I had meant to put this in the magic forum...drat.
retillin
05-26-07, 09:49 PM Like I said before, if you want a wand of fireball then it's not what you are looking for. But something that you only use a few times a day then it is good. And dont forget, it was set up to help explain why low level magic is so easy to come by on Eberron.
Roland the Crownbreaker
05-26-07, 09:54 PM In the game I play in, an eternal wand of Cure Moderate Wounds eventually made an appearance at the table. It got used on a constant basis, and ended up being worth every copper.

The way I see it (based on my own experience, yours may be different) is that only first level wands tend to be burned through. The cost involved with higher level wands tend to make players use them only when they absolutely have to. Many casters I have seen played still have the first wand and scroll they aquired all the way to the end of the campaign. Players tend to use "renewable resources" (spells per day) up competely before dipping into limited one. (items with charges) I have even seen some players use spells that are a poor fit for the situation rather than a scroll or a charge from a wand, even if it provides the perfect spell needed. Merely the fact that an eternal wand gets new uses at the start of the day places it into the category of things that often see use, rather than things that seldom see any.
RogueElement
05-26-07, 10:22 PM Here is the real power of an Eternal Wand + Artificer: If you are a 5th level Artificer, you have the Metamagic Item infusion. Take the Persistent Spell feat and use it on all kinds of Eternal Wands such as:

Wraithstrike
Swift Fly, Invisibility, etc
Protection from Evil -- if you're a warforged, this is the best way to protect yourself from clerics with the Artifice domain.
daota
05-28-07, 12:40 AM An eternal wand does not depreciate from use. If you buy a lvl 1 CL 1 eternal wand of cure light wounds for 840gp, use it 28 times, and sell it back for half price (still 420gp) you have paid 15gp per charge. That is the same per-charge cost as a normal wand of CLW. Any uses beyond 28 times represent a cost savings over the standard wand.
Dragom
05-28-07, 12:00 PM And it makes for an interesting addition to a Wand Holster.

Like a bag of holding but it carries about 12 wands and the one you want is allways the one on top? Allowing you to actually draw them as a move action (or part of a move action) as opposed to rummaging in your pack as a full round action for it?

What I like wands? And yes I know what Freud would say.

Anyway, Some people do have a serious hang up about using an expendable source of magic. Resorting to a standard wand or scroll can give the impression that you've resorted to reaching into your pocket and your going to fight by throwing your gold at your foes. It too me a long time to come to terms and just realize that's what their for.

I was 12 and the fact that everytime I used my wand it made that great treasure less sepecial made me kind of sad. So I didn't, So I forgot about it, So my DM had to remind me about my wand of Cure Light wounds with 32 charges when the party was bleeding to death.

As such a combat spell in an Eternal Wand can be used atleast once a day by the most cautious and conservative player with absolute impunity.

And it lets a Bard cast Fireball.

And it lets a Wizard cast Cure Serious Wounds

And it lets a Sorcerer cast different spells in a day.

And it lets an Artificer cast spells without it costing him money.

And as a wand it can be used without provoking attacks of opportunity, making it a lot simpler for combat touch spells and very close effects like a burning hands or colour spray.

And it's perfect to fit an Extended Protection from Arrows by a 6th level caster, (12 hours, 60 hp limit) without using up those coveted 3rd level spell slots.

Actually same for the other 1/hour per level protection spells.
gelalshawr
05-28-07, 03:01 PM Anyway, Some people do have a serious hang up about using an expendable source of magic. Resorting to a standard wand or scroll can give the impression that you've resorted to reaching into your pocket and your going to fight by throwing your gold at your foes. It too me a long time to come to terms and just realize that's what their for.

Hey, my Kender used GP's as hoopak ammo all the time
DBlizzard
05-28-07, 07:46 PM Overall it seems very expensive given what you get out of it. If I am correct, by the guidelines in the DMG, a 5/day wand of CLW should cost as much as a wand of CLW.

Remember that the ECS mentions that Eternal Wands of Magic Missile were very common. That's because they allowed magewrights, the most common arcane class in Eberron, to use the magic missile spell. It'.s not on their spell list,.

I imagine the most common adventurer Eternal Wand is the Wand of Cure * Wounds. That way you give some healing ability to a wizard, sorcerer, etc.

Since it's traditional to adjust such things based on power level, but they are somewhat customizable, I imagine they went towards making it more expensive.
Sarlax
05-30-07, 10:26 AM The disconnect occurs because Eternal Wands may be suboptimal for adventurers but perfect for NPCs.

An adventurer will appreciate a Wand of CLW more than an Eternal Wand of CLW because the normal wand can deliver its healing much faster. Even a first-level party, after one fight, needs more than 2 applications of CLW.

Even for those unusual utility spells a regular wand is probably a better idea for an adventurer. Think of a PC: with about 13 encounters per character level, he'll have maybe 20-30 adventurers over his entire career. How many times will he have a good reason to use Magic Mouth?

A good example for when an eternal wand is better might be a spell like Enlarge Person. An eternal wand can be good for this effect because it will be used regularly, perhaps multiple times per day (to buff the party's face-hitters) and the PCs will definitely have enough fights to justify the purchase.

An eternal wand pays for itself (compared to a normal wand) only when you have used it more than 50 times. Before then, the price per use is cheaper for a regular wand. This means that if you want a charged item for an effect you can see needing occasionally, the wand is usually a better choice - unless you know that your PC will actually need to use more than 50 times.

It's all different for NPCs. Most NPCs don't adventure. They have jobs. A guy in a fantasy world with a regular job will usually want the eternal wand. If my job is, say, building security, I'd much rather have an Eternal Wand of Magic Mouth or Explosive Runes than a regular wand, since I use those spells every single day. In this case, the Eternal Wand pays for itself in just a few weeks.
Cifer
05-30-07, 04:37 PM An eternal wand pays for itself (compared to a normal wand) only when you have used it more than 50 times. Before then, the price per use is cheaper for a regular wand. This means that if you want a charged item for an effect you can see needing occasionally, the wand is usually a better choice - unless you know that your PC will actually need to use more than 50 times.
Not quite. As daota pointed out, as long as you use the thing 28 times, you make a plus when selling it.
Sarlax
05-30-07, 05:28 PM Not quite. As daota pointed out, as long as you use the thing 28 times, you make a plus when selling it.
That's shouldn't be a factor in something's market price, or should all other gear consequently be bumped up in price if it can be resold? You don't actually take a profit any more that you profit when you sell a +1 longsword you've used in dozens of battles. Anyhow, if you do sell it, that just demonstrates that you can't get enough utility out of it to justify its purchase.
Cifer
05-31-07, 11:01 AM You don't actually take a profit any more that you profit when you sell a +1 longsword you've used in dozens of battles.
On the other hand side, you do profit less from selling a wand you've already used. And yes, selling stuff when it has become useless sounds perfectly fine to me unless you're nostalgic about your good old sword you got at first level and slew the leader of the goblins with.

So, selling stuff merely demonstrates that it isn't useful anymore, not that it never was. Or was the first car you ever drove useless?
PEBKAC
06-04-07, 02:30 PM Unless I missed something somewhere, while it is true that any arcane caster can use an Eternal Wand, it can only hold Sorcerer/Wizard spells. Thus no Cure spells.
Sarlax
06-04-07, 05:28 PM Unless I missed something somewhere, while it is true that any arcane caster can use an Eternal Wand, it can only hold Sorcerer/Wizard spells. Thus no Cure spells.
ECS 265. Arcane spells. It's not limited to a specific class list.
Dragom
06-04-07, 09:26 PM Thus no Cure spells.

It's not limited to a specific class list.

Any Arcane spell in the hands of any Arcane caster, read the Bard list.
Drachasor
06-05-07, 08:20 PM I don't see much commentary on the 5/day comparison I made.

Is replacing an Eternal Wand with a 5 charges/day 'normal' Wand overpowered? I don't see how it is.

I mean, what have people proposed here? 11k spent on spent on a 5th caster level extended Protection from Arrows 2/day item? That's something you'd expect to see around 13th level. By then normal arrows and missile attacks aren't that common. 50 hit points prevented also isn't that big a deal. Is it nice? Sure and it CAN be useful, but a lot of days it isn't going to ever come up. A huge price to pay considering that.

Cure Light Wounds for wizards? CLW won't do much by the time you can get the eternal wand. There are better items out there too (Belt of Healing). Might as well get something that does more or get a regular wand for the cleric (who can use 10+ charges if it is needed to keep other players alive between battles). Again, even if you only have 1 combat per day, it will still take 27 or so days before that Eternal Wand pays for itself, and that's about 2 and a half levels! So it constantly becomes less and less important during its tenure.

Again, my question isn't whether it is EVER useful. Rather, it is whether its price is justified given the other options. A secondary concern of mine is whether a 5 charges/day wand (for the same price as a normal wand) makes sense or not as a "fix" for the Eternal Wand.

-Drachasor
Dragom
06-05-07, 08:56 PM I mean, what have people proposed here? 11k spent on spent on a 5th caster level extended Protection from Arrows 2/day item? That's something you'd expect to see around 13th level. By then normal arrows and missile attacks aren't that common. 50 hit points prevented also isn't that big a deal. Is it nice? Sure and it CAN be useful, but a lot of days it isn't going to ever come up. A huge price to pay considering that.

Depends how often you fight giants. They really don't use +1 rocks.

Cure Light Wounds for wizards? CLW won't do much by the time you can get the eternal wand. There are better items out there too (Belt of Healing). Might as well get something that does more or get a regular wand for the cleric (who can use 10+ charges if it is needed to keep other players alive between battles). Again, even if you only have 1 combat per day, it will still take 27 or so days before that Eternal Wand pays for itself, and that's about 2 and a half levels! So it constantly becomes less and less important during its tenure.

Everything in D&D becomes less and less important during it's tenure. It's the failure of the wand to bleed GP value as it goes along that is important to note.

And at levels 3-4 CLW is still quite a strong spell.

And the price of the Eternal wand is equal to a normal wand + the extra for being able to be used by any arcane caster.

Again, my question isn't whether it is EVER useful. Rather, it is whether its price is justified given the other options. A secondary concern of mine is whether a 5 charges/day wand (for the same price as a normal wand) makes sense or not as a "fix" for the Eternal Wand.

-Drachasor

If you feel the need for a fix take a long hard look at 3 (50% improvment) before you jump to 5 (250% improvement).
tui
06-12-07, 10:50 PM Cure Light Wounds for wizards? CLW won't do much by the time you can get the eternal wand.
An instant stabilization when someone drops below 0 hp can be pretty valuable. Especially if the target is your party cleric.
The_wizard_Tim
06-13-07, 06:55 AM my problem with these wands is that in the fluff they say eternal wands allowed magewrights to fight as other spell casters in the end of the last war.
Cifer
06-13-07, 08:53 AM my problem with these wands is that in the fluff they say eternal wands allowed magewrights to fight as other spell casters in the end of the last war.
Meh. Load a magewrigth with an eternal wand of fireball, move him in under cover, let him blast away and move him out. Against low level opponents, that thing becomes outright mean, even when you've only got two shots per day.
Logos7
06-13-07, 02:13 PM I think the extra price is for letting any arcane user activate, wizard can't use cure light voila the wizard can (Without Significant Skill Investment, or other ways around the spell list requirement) , magewright can't use fireball voila madewright can use fireball

lots of people compare it to CLW and it looses out on the comparison because CLW Wand is the most cost effective of the cure wands. outside of that limited example they become worth the price
The White Sorcerer
06-13-07, 03:49 PM Meh. Load a magewrigth with an eternal wand of fireball, move him in under cover, let him blast away and move him out. Against low level opponents, that thing becomes outright mean, even when you've only got two shots per day.

The best part is that magewrights are significantly more expendable than wizards.
Cifer
06-14-07, 09:41 AM The best part is that magewrights are significantly more expendable than wizards.
The even better part is that your troops can easily recover the schema in case the wright falls prey to some sniper attack while it's usually possible to break it before it falls into enemy hands.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drachasor 05-26-07, 04:08 AM	I don't play Eberron, but I do play D&D. Maybe there's something great for Artificers in Eternal Wands somewhere, but in general they seem really expensive given what they do. They cost more than a normal wand, basically you pay for 56 charges. This might seem like a great deal for "infinite" casting, but the limitation of 2 uses per day seem extraordinarily stifling. An Eternal Wand of Cure Light Wounds, for instance, is pretty awful for an adventuring party, imho. By the time you have used 56 charges worth of CLW, you will have gained multiple levels. By that point the EW of CLW is not really healing a significant amount. You also don't have the ability to burn extra charges in emergencies (as you can with a wand of CLW). Overall it seems very expensive given what you get out of it. If I am correct, by the guidelines in the DMG, a 5/day wand of CLW should cost as much as a wand of CLW. Now, these are just guidelines and can be woefully off (e.g. use-activated true strike), but in this case it seems about spot-on. Am I missing something here? -Drachasor
retillin 05-26-07, 10:41 AM	Dont think of Eternal Wands like you would regular ones. They have an important part in the campain setting. It helps to explain why there are so many minor magic items. It allows the NPC class "Magewright" to creat magic items that require a spell found in an Eternal Wand. (the magewright has a very very small spell selection) That being said, Eternal Wands of such things as Find Traps, or Idenitfy or most of the non-combat low level spells could be very very useful. Infact most games I DM players fall all over themselves to buy such wands as to open up more attack spells for the quests. (It really helps a sorcerer to over come the low amount of spells known)
Vharuck 05-26-07, 02:29 PM	I don't play Eberron, but I do play D&D. Maybe there's something great for Artificers in Eternal Wands somewhere, but in general they seem really expensive given what they do. They cost more than a normal wand, basically you pay for 56 charges. This might seem like a great deal for "infinite" casting, but the limitation of 2 uses per day seem extraordinarily stifling. An Eternal Wand of Cure Light Wounds, for instance, is pretty awful for an adventuring party, imho. By the time you have used 56 charges worth of CLW, you will have gained multiple levels. By that point the EW of CLW is not really healing a significant amount. You also don't have the ability to burn extra charges in emergencies (as you can with a wand of CLW). Overall it seems very expensive given what you get out of it. If I am correct, by the guidelines in the DMG, a 5/day wand of CLW should cost as much as a wand of CLW. Now, these are just guidelines and can be woefully off (e.g. use-activated true strike), but in this case it seems about spot-on. Am I missing something here? -Drachasor 50 charges is a normal wand, not 56. And sometimes you'll need a certain spell no matter how high of level you are. In these cases, eternal wands are great for those spells (which end up being utility spells you don't need many times a day anyways). Here's a list of good eternal wand spells: Knock Identify Endure Elements Unseen Servant
Drachasor 05-26-07, 09:01 PM	50 charges is a normal wand, not 56. And sometimes you'll need a certain spell no matter how high of level you are. In these cases, eternal wands are great for those spells (which end up being utility spells you don't need many times a day anyways). Here's a list of good eternal wand spells: Knock Identify Endure Elements Unseen Servant Why not just get a normal wand of one of these things? There might be days you are going to need more than 2 castings, but an Eternal Wand stops you. On the other hand, you are unlikely to ever need these effects much so 50 charges might well be enough for your entire adventuring career. That said, Scrolls are probably going to be more effective in these cases, given the relative rarity of the need for such utility spells (a wand is probably just too expensive to justify). Identify can make sense, but only because the Eternal Wand apparently is much, much, much cheaper than the normal wand (no need to pay the material component cost ever at least according to the MIC write-up). And I said 56 charges because an Eternal Wand costs as much as a 56 charge wand. Anyhoo, how would a wand that was 5 charges/day and cost as much as a normal wand be overpowered? I don't think it would be, even though it would be flat-out better than an Eternal Wand (except for Identify and other costly spells that eternal wands seem to get around). If you want to think of it a different way, if Eternal Wands cost about 1/3 as much, would that be overpowered? I don't see how. I am not saying the basic concept isn't good, I am saying the price seems too much. -Drachasor After taking into account extra cost for costly components, of course. PS. I had meant to put this in the magic forum...drat.
retillin 05-26-07, 09:49 PM	Like I said before, if you want a wand of fireball then it's not what you are looking for. But something that you only use a few times a day then it is good. And dont forget, it was set up to help explain why low level magic is so easy to come by on Eberron.
Roland the Crownbreaker 05-26-07, 09:54 PM	In the game I play in, an eternal wand of Cure Moderate Wounds eventually made an appearance at the table. It got used on a constant basis, and ended up being worth every copper. The way I see it (based on my own experience, yours may be different) is that only first level wands tend to be burned through. The cost involved with higher level wands tend to make players use them only when they absolutely have to. Many casters I have seen played still have the first wand and scroll they aquired all the way to the end of the campaign. Players tend to use "renewable resources" (spells per day) up competely before dipping into limited one. (items with charges) I have even seen some players use spells that are a poor fit for the situation rather than a scroll or a charge from a wand, even if it provides the perfect spell needed. Merely the fact that an eternal wand gets new uses at the start of the day places it into the category of things that often see use, rather than things that seldom see any.
RogueElement 05-26-07, 10:22 PM	Here is the real power of an Eternal Wand + Artificer: If you are a 5th level Artificer, you have the Metamagic Item infusion. Take the Persistent Spell feat and use it on all kinds of Eternal Wands such as: Wraithstrike Swift Fly, Invisibility, etc Protection from Evil -- if you're a warforged, this is the best way to protect yourself from clerics with the Artifice domain.
daota 05-28-07, 12:40 AM	An eternal wand does not depreciate from use. If you buy a lvl 1 CL 1 eternal wand of cure light wounds for 840gp, use it 28 times, and sell it back for half price (still 420gp) you have paid 15gp per charge. That is the same per-charge cost as a normal wand of CLW. Any uses beyond 28 times represent a cost savings over the standard wand.
Dragom 05-28-07, 12:00 PM	And it makes for an interesting addition to a Wand Holster. Like a bag of holding but it carries about 12 wands and the one you want is allways the one on top? Allowing you to actually draw them as a move action (or part of a move action) as opposed to rummaging in your pack as a full round action for it? What I like wands? And yes I know what Freud would say. Anyway, Some people do have a serious hang up about using an expendable source of magic. Resorting to a standard wand or scroll can give the impression that you've resorted to reaching into your pocket and your going to fight by throwing your gold at your foes. It too me a long time to come to terms and just realize that's what their for. I was 12 and the fact that everytime I used my wand it made that great treasure less sepecial made me kind of sad. So I didn't, So I forgot about it, So my DM had to remind me about my wand of Cure Light wounds with 32 charges when the party was bleeding to death. As such a combat spell in an Eternal Wand can be used atleast once a day by the most cautious and conservative player with absolute impunity. And it lets a Bard cast Fireball. And it lets a Wizard cast Cure Serious Wounds And it lets a Sorcerer cast different spells in a day. And it lets an Artificer cast spells without it costing him money. And as a wand it can be used without provoking attacks of opportunity, making it a lot simpler for combat touch spells and very close effects like a burning hands or colour spray. And it's perfect to fit an Extended Protection from Arrows by a 6th level caster, (12 hours, 60 hp limit) without using up those coveted 3rd level spell slots. Actually same for the other 1/hour per level protection spells.
gelalshawr 05-28-07, 03:01 PM	Anyway, Some people do have a serious hang up about using an expendable source of magic. Resorting to a standard wand or scroll can give the impression that you've resorted to reaching into your pocket and your going to fight by throwing your gold at your foes. It too me a long time to come to terms and just realize that's what their for. Hey, my Kender used GP's as hoopak ammo all the time
DBlizzard 05-28-07, 07:46 PM	Overall it seems very expensive given what you get out of it. If I am correct, by the guidelines in the DMG, a 5/day wand of CLW should cost as much as a wand of CLW. Remember that the ECS mentions that Eternal Wands of Magic Missile were very common. That's because they allowed magewrights, the most common arcane class in Eberron, to use the magic missile spell. It'.s not on their spell list,. I imagine the most common adventurer Eternal Wand is the Wand of Cure * Wounds. That way you give some healing ability to a wizard, sorcerer, etc. Since it's traditional to adjust such things based on power level, but they are somewhat customizable, I imagine they went towards making it more expensive.
Sarlax 05-30-07, 10:26 AM	The disconnect occurs because Eternal Wands may be suboptimal for adventurers but perfect for NPCs. An adventurer will appreciate a Wand of CLW more than an Eternal Wand of CLW because the normal wand can deliver its healing much faster. Even a first-level party, after one fight, needs more than 2 applications of CLW. Even for those unusual utility spells a regular wand is probably a better idea for an adventurer. Think of a PC: with about 13 encounters per character level, he'll have maybe 20-30 adventurers over his entire career. How many times will he have a good reason to use Magic Mouth? A good example for when an eternal wand is better might be a spell like Enlarge Person. An eternal wand can be good for this effect because it will be used regularly, perhaps multiple times per day (to buff the party's face-hitters) and the PCs will definitely have enough fights to justify the purchase. An eternal wand pays for itself (compared to a normal wand) only when you have used it more than 50 times. Before then, the price per use is cheaper for a regular wand. This means that if you want a charged item for an effect you can see needing occasionally, the wand is usually a better choice - unless you know that your PC will actually need to use more than 50 times. It's all different for NPCs. Most NPCs don't adventure. They have jobs. A guy in a fantasy world with a regular job will usually want the eternal wand. If my job is, say, building security, I'd much rather have an Eternal Wand of Magic Mouth or Explosive Runes than a regular wand, since I use those spells every single day. In this case, the Eternal Wand pays for itself in just a few weeks.
Cifer 05-30-07, 04:37 PM	An eternal wand pays for itself (compared to a normal wand) only when you have used it more than 50 times. Before then, the price per use is cheaper for a regular wand. This means that if you want a charged item for an effect you can see needing occasionally, the wand is usually a better choice - unless you know that your PC will actually need to use more than 50 times. Not quite. As daota pointed out, as long as you use the thing 28 times, you make a plus when selling it.
Sarlax 05-30-07, 05:28 PM	Not quite. As daota pointed out, as long as you use the thing 28 times, you make a plus when selling it. That's shouldn't be a factor in something's market price, or should all other gear consequently be bumped up in price if it can be resold? You don't actually take a profit any more that you profit when you sell a +1 longsword you've used in dozens of battles. Anyhow, if you do sell it, that just demonstrates that you can't get enough utility out of it to justify its purchase.
Cifer 05-31-07, 11:01 AM	You don't actually take a profit any more that you profit when you sell a +1 longsword you've used in dozens of battles. On the other hand side, you do profit less from selling a wand you've already used. And yes, selling stuff when it has become useless sounds perfectly fine to me unless you're nostalgic about your good old sword you got at first level and slew the leader of the goblins with. So, selling stuff merely demonstrates that it isn't useful anymore, not that it never was. Or was the first car you ever drove useless?
PEBKAC 06-04-07, 02:30 PM	Unless I missed something somewhere, while it is true that any arcane caster can use an Eternal Wand, it can only hold Sorcerer/Wizard spells. Thus no Cure spells.
Sarlax 06-04-07, 05:28 PM	Unless I missed something somewhere, while it is true that any arcane caster can use an Eternal Wand, it can only hold Sorcerer/Wizard spells. Thus no Cure spells. ECS 265. Arcane spells. It's not limited to a specific class list.
Dragom 06-04-07, 09:26 PM	Thus no Cure spells. It's not limited to a specific class list. Any Arcane spell in the hands of any Arcane caster, read the Bard list.
Drachasor 06-05-07, 08:20 PM	I don't see much commentary on the 5/day comparison I made. Is replacing an Eternal Wand with a 5 charges/day 'normal' Wand overpowered? I don't see how it is. I mean, what have people proposed here? 11k spent on spent on a 5th caster level extended Protection from Arrows 2/day item? That's something you'd expect to see around 13th level. By then normal arrows and missile attacks aren't that common. 50 hit points prevented also isn't that big a deal. Is it nice? Sure and it CAN be useful, but a lot of days it isn't going to ever come up. A huge price to pay considering that. Cure Light Wounds for wizards? CLW won't do much by the time you can get the eternal wand. There are better items out there too (Belt of Healing). Might as well get something that does more or get a regular wand for the cleric (who can use 10+ charges if it is needed to keep other players alive between battles). Again, even if you only have 1 combat per day, it will still take 27 or so days before that Eternal Wand pays for itself, and that's about 2 and a half levels! So it constantly becomes less and less important during its tenure. Again, my question isn't whether it is EVER useful. Rather, it is whether its price is justified given the other options. A secondary concern of mine is whether a 5 charges/day wand (for the same price as a normal wand) makes sense or not as a "fix" for the Eternal Wand. -Drachasor
Dragom 06-05-07, 08:56 PM	I mean, what have people proposed here? 11k spent on spent on a 5th caster level extended Protection from Arrows 2/day item? That's something you'd expect to see around 13th level. By then normal arrows and missile attacks aren't that common. 50 hit points prevented also isn't that big a deal. Is it nice? Sure and it CAN be useful, but a lot of days it isn't going to ever come up. A huge price to pay considering that. Depends how often you fight giants. They really don't use +1 rocks. Cure Light Wounds for wizards? CLW won't do much by the time you can get the eternal wand. There are better items out there too (Belt of Healing). Might as well get something that does more or get a regular wand for the cleric (who can use 10+ charges if it is needed to keep other players alive between battles). Again, even if you only have 1 combat per day, it will still take 27 or so days before that Eternal Wand pays for itself, and that's about 2 and a half levels! So it constantly becomes less and less important during its tenure. Everything in D&D becomes less and less important during it's tenure. It's the failure of the wand to bleed GP value as it goes along that is important to note. And at levels 3-4 CLW is still quite a strong spell. And the price of the Eternal wand is equal to a normal wand + the extra for being able to be used by any arcane caster. Again, my question isn't whether it is EVER useful. Rather, it is whether its price is justified given the other options. A secondary concern of mine is whether a 5 charges/day wand (for the same price as a normal wand) makes sense or not as a "fix" for the Eternal Wand. -Drachasor If you feel the need for a fix take a long hard look at 3 (50% improvment) before you jump to 5 (250% improvement).
tui 06-12-07, 10:50 PM	Cure Light Wounds for wizards? CLW won't do much by the time you can get the eternal wand. An instant stabilization when someone drops below 0 hp can be pretty valuable. Especially if the target is your party cleric.
The_wizard_Tim 06-13-07, 06:55 AM	my problem with these wands is that in the fluff they say eternal wands allowed magewrights to fight as other spell casters in the end of the last war.
Cifer 06-13-07, 08:53 AM	my problem with these wands is that in the fluff they say eternal wands allowed magewrights to fight as other spell casters in the end of the last war. Meh. Load a magewrigth with an eternal wand of fireball, move him in under cover, let him blast away and move him out. Against low level opponents, that thing becomes outright mean, even when you've only got two shots per day.
Logos7 06-13-07, 02:13 PM	I think the extra price is for letting any arcane user activate, wizard can't use cure light voila the wizard can (Without Significant Skill Investment, or other ways around the spell list requirement) , magewright can't use fireball voila madewright can use fireball lots of people compare it to CLW and it looses out on the comparison because CLW Wand is the most cost effective of the cure wands. outside of that limited example they become worth the price
The White Sorcerer 06-13-07, 03:49 PM	Meh. Load a magewrigth with an eternal wand of fireball, move him in under cover, let him blast away and move him out. Against low level opponents, that thing becomes outright mean, even when you've only got two shots per day. The best part is that magewrights are significantly more expendable than wizards.
Cifer 06-14-07, 09:41 AM	The best part is that magewrights are significantly more expendable than wizards. The even better part is that your troops can easily recover the schema in case the wright falls prey to some sniper attack while it's usually possible to break it before it falls into enemy hands.