Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tvar1 07-06-07, 02:23 PM	I'm kind of curious why feats like Talenta Warrior in Races of Eberron says that you get to "treat the Talenta sharrash, the Talenta tangat, and the Talenta boomerang as martial weapons." The prereqs for this particular feat are "Halfling, region of origin Talenta Plains". If you meet those pereqs, you already treat those weapons as martial weapons, per the ECS page 120: "A wielder native to the region mentiond in a weapon's name treats that weapon as a martial weapon..." In fact, it seems that by RAW any character (even non-Halflings) from Talenta can use those weapons as though they were martial (but I guess most DMs would rule that that is simply an oversight in the rules, and would limit it to the appropriate race from the appropriate region). What's the deal here? I know these feats give other nice benifits (like +1 damage, and ability to use Weapon Focus, etc, among all the weapons), but why the repetition? Including the first part of the feat makes it seem like they are implying that if you don't take this feat, the weapons are still exotic for you! Is anyone else confused/annoyed by this, or am I just being picky? EDIT: Replaced "****" with "picky"... Heh.
korcheck 07-06-07, 03:20 PM	I'll have to look into this and get back to you but it sounds right or rather wrong on the feat issue.
Shady314 07-06-07, 03:39 PM	Because many authors don't bother to check their source material? RoE isn't actually an Eberron book so the feat SHOULD be for those halflings in other worlds not born in the Talenta Plains or where the Plains even exists. If being from the Plains is a pre-req someone just didn't read the ECS very closely.
tvar1 07-06-07, 03:58 PM	Because many authors don't bother to check their source material? RoE isn't actually an Eberron book so the feat SHOULD be for those halflings in other worlds not born in the Talenta Plains or where the Plains even exists. If being from the Plains is a pre-req someone just didn't read the ECS very closely. You're right RoE isn't technically an Eberron book. Which just means that making feats in that book require that you be from a region in the Eberron setting that much more broken. Good catch! :)
Symar 07-06-07, 04:06 PM	I think there's a feat in Complete Warrior that's just as stupid, it lets you treat racial specifical exotic weapons as martial weapons as long as you are that race, but I was under the impression that those races treated them as martial to begin with. I figure it's just an oversight on that part of the rules. The rest of the feat you mentioned is alright, though, isn't it?
tvar1 07-06-07, 04:14 PM	So, the way I have always played (previous to Eberron, which I will be running soon, which is why I'm concerned about it) it is that only the racial proficiencies actually spelled out in the PHB are allowed. Which includes, AFAIK, only these: Dwarves (with waraxes and urgoshes) and Gnomes (with hooked hammers). So that feat from CW (which I don't use, myself) might help in the case of the Orc Double-axe, or something. But yeah, mostly pointless.
Ovin Gilgim 07-06-07, 04:52 PM	I agree that the first sentence in the Talenta Warrior feat (et. al.) seems redundant but that the rest of the description seems fine. As pointed out, probably due to RoE not being specifically an Eberron book. I always played that as long as the weapon title included the race, it could be considered a martial weapon by a member of that race. This (I imagine) would allow some variety in weapons used by different races. For example, considering the differences in their physical and societal make-up, why wouldn't the dwarves develop and train with a different style of axe or spear (see Dwarven double spear in RoS)? Eberron tends to blur the racial lines for more national or House-oriented beliefs, but it still allows for some variation in the common equipment throughout. As long as any new weapons aren't too unbalanced in their effects, I personally love having unique weapons and equipment for different races. In Eberron, I allow martial proficiencies to cover even exotic weapons if the character could have been exposed and trained in its use (i.e. an abandoned orphan raised by a tribe of Talenta halflings).
Loki5654 07-06-07, 05:09 PM	Aren't the regional proficiencies in the ECS optional? I'm AFB, so I can't check the wording.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-06-07, 05:27 PM	I think there's a feat in Complete Warrior that's just as stupid, it lets you treat racial specifical exotic weapons as martial weapons as long as you are that race, but I was under the impression that those races treated them as martial to begin with. I figure it's just an oversight on that part of the rules. The rest of the feat you mentioned is alright, though, isn't it? The ones in CompWar cover weapons that aren't normally auto items for the associated races. Most are new items in the CW. Example, Elves. Elves, as a base race, get no exotic weapons as martial weapons. The elven double bow, thin blade, and a couple others, are exotic weapons that are associated with elves, but not automatically martial weapons for them.
Hellcow 07-06-07, 05:29 PM	It's intentional redundancy. Yes, because if you're from Valenar or the Talenta Plains, you already have those base benefits. But it doesn't hurt to restate them, since if you meet the prerequisites, you DO have them. Meanwhile, the major benefits of those feats are: Adding the results of an action point roll to both attack and damage. Allowing the effects of Improved Critical and similar feats to apply to all weapons in the weapon group. A unqiue bonus for each feat based on the fighting style of that region. Treating the exotic weapons as martial isn't intended to be an important benefit of the feat: it is simply repetition of the existing rules, in case Dms or players haven't noticed the existing rules.
tvar1 07-06-07, 07:45 PM	Thanks Keith! Well, that explains it. :) It was just so confusing to see redundancy in D&D rules since usually they are too vague rather than too verbose... ;)
Bluebrush 07-07-07, 01:42 PM	As another option, you could drop the "Region of Origin" requirement for the feat. This would allow, say, a half-orc Tharashk Mercenary from Breland to travel to his family's homeland to learn the traditions and fighting styles his family is rooted in. Similarly, a Khorvaire elf who felt a deep spiritual calling and joined the Valenar could learn their ways and weapon styles. As always, go by what kind of fluff you like your feats to be surrounded by.
gensuke626 07-08-07, 06:55 PM	I always saw Talenta Warrior and the Valenar equivalent from PGtE as having the Exotic/Martial weapon bits in the event that a DM rules that you don't get regional proficientcies. Also, though RoE isn't a "Core Eberron Book" by most people's reckoning, I think that it generally provides a little more insight into the various races of Eberron. I liked it.
Cifer 07-09-07, 09:21 AM	As another option, you could drop the "Region of Origin" requirement for the feat. If someone lives somewhere for an extended period of time, I'd consider simply changing (or enhancing) their Region of Origin to match.
Nived 07-09-07, 12:00 PM	As Keith said Talenta halflings already treat those weapons as martial, it's in the "Region of Origin" section of the Eberron Campaign Setting.