Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Forged_Fury 05-10-07, 08:46 AM	So I've recently thought about playing a Talenta halfling barbarian with a clawfoot for a mount. The character will invest fairly heavily into mount controlling skills and Mounted Combat related feats. I think the character would be pretty fun to play and could be tactically sound at the early-to-mid low levels given the clawfoot's fairly impressive full attack routine. My problem comes at the mid to higher levels. First, I'm not planning on taking any levels in Druid, Ranger, or Paladin. As a result, I can't really improve the clawfoot much. The ECS example has something like 13 HP. The halfling and his clawfoot will have a strong emotional bond. As a result, I don't think it would make sense RP-wise for him to flippantly replace his mount with a new one every time one died (Plus there are the logistical issues of locating a new mount). What can I do to try and improve my mount's survivability? I've looked through the books for ideas and only have a few. First, the mount will be a House Vidalis Magebred clawfoot. Beyond that, barding, and the Mounted Combat feat, I can't think of much. Any ideas? -FF
UnderworldLord 05-10-07, 09:55 AM	A handy cleric (artificer) can improve the life span of any party member. Mounts included! On a more serious note, I've found that when attempting to provide life expectancy expanding abilities you end up spending more gold on the (other thing) than yourself, and thus both you and the (mount/homunc/familiar/etc) will become subpar.
Dragoloth 05-10-07, 09:58 AM	Check with your DM if he will allow your mount to increase in hd as you level up. In a campaign I was in there was a gnome knight with a pit bull mount and our DM allowed this. It wasn't gamebreaking and saved his mount more than once.
Syltorian 05-10-07, 10:09 AM	Either what Dragoloth said... or consider going with the Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat. If you have enough feat slots free...
DarkWarriorKarg 05-10-07, 02:04 PM	Take the leadership feat... Then convine your dm that the followers are CR1 mini-dinosaurs.:D Chibisaurs!
Kinger 05-10-07, 07:04 PM	While it may not be game-breaking to just give the mount some more hit dice, it IS contrary to the rules. You don't get something for nothing, after all. Your halfling's favorite raptor is just a raptor, not a devoted raptor companion who grows with you (which would require a class feature like Animal Companion, or perhaps the above feat mentioned, Animal Cohort). I'd have to say Animal Cohort is the best option for you, really. One other thing you could do is have your raptor Awakened. It's no longer a mundane animal, but you can still ride it (provided it still lets you). And, now that it's intelligent, it can gain class levels. Clawfoot Barbarian? Yes please! Something else to consider is that if your character loves his clawfoot as much as you imply, he likely wouldn't want to take the creature on such risky escapades. It's just not trained for such things, and love it as he does, he's not capable of training it to be. So, I would leave your favorite raptor at home (or at the tavern, or wherever), and go out on expeditions (or whatever) on the Magebred Swordtooth Titan of Doom you bought from Vadalis. There's the old rustbucket you've had a million years in your garage and still drive on Sundays, and then there's the brand-new APC you take with you to war.
Dragom 05-10-07, 08:48 PM	You could find the finest claw foot in the plains... a 6 HD beast with that comes with a full two extra feats then the standard one. Forcing you to buy or find and train the creature possibly as a story point, Beyond that you could find a fully advanced 10 HD Glidewing. Pretty beefy and it can fly.
Forged_Fury 05-10-07, 09:44 PM	Thanks for the ideas. I had considered pretty much all of them, but was unaware of the Wild Cohort feat. Thanks for the link! And yes, the thought of a 6HD Awakened Clawfoot Barbarian/Rogue did cross my mind. I just looked at the spell description for Awaken and I think the Wild Cohort feat would probably be incompatible, at least by the rules as intended. Thanks again! -Forged_Fury
Phalo 05-10-07, 11:08 PM	you could get a bigger dino there is a forum somewhere in here that has a whole bunch of dinos stated out
The Fireballed Mage 05-10-07, 11:18 PM	Ask the DM to consider a rules change. Ask politely if your mount could have 1/2 of your hp as 'phantom hp' that are only used against Area of Effect attacks. That way the mount will not get any stronger as you go up in levels, but will be more survivable against spells directed mostly at your character. Your Mounted Combat feat will be used to keep it alive when in melee range. As for being fun: I'm playing a halfling barbarian 5/bard 4 mounted on a fastieth and have the whole Mounted Combat tree right up through Spirited Charge. Lance + Spirited Charge + 50ft movement rate + my own inspire courage + barbarian rage + power attack = some sweet damage delt out to DM creatures.
Splendide 05-10-07, 11:35 PM	The other option is to play an Awakened clawfoot and have a halfling druid as your cohort. Why yes, I have played an Awakened clawfoot. A swordsage. With Tiger's Claw maneuvers. And an obscene Jump skill. It wasn't OP at all. Honest.
Cifer 05-12-07, 08:10 PM	@TFB The problem with that is that the mount doesn't need the HP against Area Effects only. Mounts are just too obvious targets - take them down and the enemy loses access to entire feat chains. A similar thing happens with weapons, although those at least have hardness and gain HP from being enchanted. Mounts need real HP. Oh, and you might want to get your fluffy little dinosaur some barding.
WolfHati 05-15-07, 03:59 AM	You could also get a magebred clawfoot, though such a thing might be rare. Maybe if you had House connections or something. I also am for the idea of getting an advance HD clawfoot, or of having your clawfoot gain HD with levels. Maybe you'd have to pay for training or good care for it to balance it out. Though I think some reward is due if you *do* take good care of your mount and it comes with you on enough adventures where it deserves more hit dice. Druids and such can just get new pets if they lose theirs in battle, so it's not really taking too much away from them, since you have to take real good care of your dino to take advantage of that.
Highfather 05-25-07, 12:29 AM	just switch out a class feature to gain the paladin mount ability for your mount. Its possible... Ive seen it done
ChristopherGroves 05-25-07, 09:33 AM	Not to be a pest, but it sounds like you want the abilities of the Beastmaster, Ranger, Outrider, etc. classes without taking those classes. Have you considered actually taking a class or PRC that does advance a companion?
Forged_Fury 05-26-07, 08:50 AM	I had thought about Outrider, but I really didn't want to take a PRC just to acquire a mount that won't fall over dead the second a 5th Level Wizard steps on to the field. Anyway, although the rules probably reflect "game reality", they are rather un-fun concerning mounts. Once you hit about 6th level, you might as well give up on them unless you have a class or PRC that specifically gives mount associated benefits. A few 3rd Level AoE or Line spells and you can kiss the horses goodbye. It's "realistic", but just not much fun in my opinion. I like the Wild Cohort Feat the best though. It's the least resource intensive way of acquiring a survivable mount, IMO. -FF
Kreistor2 05-26-07, 10:04 AM	At some point, you'll need to replace the mount. If the campaign gets to the point where your mount becomes an easy kill, then a bigger mount becomes necessary. Given the game mechanics, it isn't really feasible to expect a single mount to take you through a lot of levels. That's why paladin mounts and druid companions grow with them.
gelalshawr 05-26-07, 12:42 PM	I had thought about Outrider, but I really didn't want to take a PRC just to acquire a mount that won't fall over dead the second a 5th Level Wizard steps on to the field. Anyway, although the rules probably reflect "game reality", they are rather un-fun concerning mounts. Once you hit about 6th level, you might as well give up on them unless you have a class or PRC that specifically gives mount associated benefits. A few 3rd Level AoE or Line spells and you can kiss the horses goodbye. It's "realistic", but just not much fun in my opinion. I like the Wild Cohort Feat the best though. It's the least resource intensive way of acquiring a survivable mount, IMO. -FF The point is, if you're building your character to be a mounted fighter, then there should be no problem with taking classes or PrC's that give bonuses to said mounts. If you're not playing a character that is based on fighting from horseback (or dinoback as the case may be) then you're not going to be going up against the 5th level wizard from the back of your mount.
tallric_kruush 05-26-07, 01:12 PM	Wild Cohort seems as must. Really, so does a PrC focused on Mounted Combat, for all the reasons others have already listed. The "Collar of Healing" on p.89 of Magic Item Compendium is a very useful item for someone with an animal friend. I'd allow a character with the Wild Cohort feat to benefit from it.
Forged_Fury 05-26-07, 08:30 PM	The point is, if you're building your character to be a mounted fighter, then there should be no problem with taking classes or PrC's that give bonuses to said mounts. If you're not playing a character that is based on fighting from horseback (or dinoback as the case may be) then you're not going to be going up against the 5th level wizard from the back of your mount. The problem here is really crunch vs. fluff. Per fluff, many Talenta halflings have a bond with their dinosaur mounts and ride them into battle. Per crunch, there is really not much of a way to keep one of these things alive at low-mid levels without investing in several feats or PRCs. I'm not building my character to be a mounted combat specailist, but rather a Talenta barbarian who has the typical affinity with a dinosaur mount and fights from combat. Honestly, the only feat I am looking at taking from a Mounted Combat perspective is probably... Mounted Combat, and that's only to keep my clawfoot alive. I may look at it later to see if Spirited Charge, Trample, or any of the others are worth it, but right now, that's about it. I guess I can just suspend the notion of how important these dino mounts are to the Talenta, otherwise why would they ride them into battle considering how fragile many of them are? Additionally, considering the supposedly lowish power level of the game, there can't be that many Outriders, Mid-Level Rangers, or Beastmasters running around out there. Anyway, thanks to all, I think the Wild Cohort feat is really the best option here. Low resource requirement and it gets me what I'm looking for. -FF
Edymnion 05-26-07, 08:40 PM	Another approach is to reduce the threat to the mount. Custom craft it some barding that uses Shield Other (I think thats the right spell, the one that lets you take half the damage someone else takes) to redirect damage away from your low hitdice mount and onto your high hitdice character.
Cifer 05-27-07, 06:37 AM	The problem here is really crunch vs. fluff. Actually, it isn't. Remember, Eberron NPCs are low-level - they've got hit points that mean they are severely outclassed by their mounts. The only ones who break that scheme are the PCs who can take Leadership, Wild Companion and/or PrCs.
Kinger 05-27-07, 01:42 PM	Actually, it isn't. Remember, Eberron NPCs are low-level - they've got hit points that mean they are severely outclassed by their mounts. The only ones who break that scheme are the PCs who can take Leadership, Wild Companion and/or PrCs. A very good point. The average Talenta Barbarian (say, level 1-3) is not going to outshine his mount hp-wise by any real amount.
Forged_Fury 05-27-07, 05:13 PM	Actually, it isn't. Remember, Eberron NPCs are low-level - they've got hit points that mean they are severely outclassed by their mounts. The only ones who break that scheme are the PCs who can take Leadership, Wild Companion and/or PrCs. Sure, but I'm not really talking about NPCs here. I'm talking about PCs who want to follow the fluff of the Talenta Halfling tribes without taking a PRC or a number of feats just to keep their mounts alive. As it stands, any talenta halfling PC that wants to "go along with the fluff" and have a dino mount, even if it isn't so good in combat (such as a Fastieth), is required to take PRCs and Feats in order for their dino to not become a kabob at an early level. That just doesn't add to the fun level for me. Wild Cohort it is. -F
Forged_Fury 05-27-07, 05:21 PM	A very good point. The average Talenta Barbarian (say, level 1-3) is not going to outshine his mount hp-wise by any real amount. An average Talenta Barbarian will only have 1 less hit point at 1st Level than a Clawfoot mount. That's without a Con bonus, which would be really ill-planned for a barbarian to not have one. Anyway, I have no problem with the NPC fodder and their dino mounts being fragile, that's what they are supposed to do. It's the near-impossibility for a PC to keep a mount alive at higher levels without having to invest in feats, PRCs, etc. Even if the mount isn't a huge added value in combat. Anyway, the Wild Cohort feat basically explains that it was designed for this exact purpose. Works for me. -FF
Tanvalis 05-27-07, 05:28 PM	The Wild Cohort feat is definatly what you're looking for. In addition to that since you are playing a barbarian I seriously suggest the feat that allows your companion to rage with you when you do, I believe it's in the same article... Also, the mounted feat tree is awesome when it comes to this. I played a Talenta Barbarian/Scout with a Clawfoot Wild Cohort... it was grand!
Cifer 05-28-07, 05:33 AM	Sure, but I'm not really talking about NPCs here. I'm talking about PCs who want to follow the fluff of the Talenta Halfling tribes without taking a PRC or a number of feats just to keep their mounts alive. As it stands, any talenta halfling PC that wants to "go along with the fluff" and have a dino mount, even if it isn't so good in combat (such as a Fastieth), is required to take PRCs and Feats in order for their dino to not become a kabob at an early level. On the other hand side, every Zil artificer who wants to go along with the gnomish tradition of binding elementals has to take the Bind Elemental feat and every Valenar who wants to be a tough raider can't be a single-class wizard. That's kinda the point. An average Talenta Barbarian will only have 1 less hit point at 1st Level than a Clawfoot mount. That's without a Con bonus, which would be really ill-planned for a barbarian to not have one. For the average Talenta Barbarian, you are correct. However, he almost doesn't exist - most inhabitants of the plains are not barbarians, but warriors, guys with an NPC class who don't even get full HP for first level! Barbarians already are champions of their tribes. Oh, and while they are called barbarians, I believe it was said that rangers are more numerous.
Forged_Fury 05-28-07, 08:10 AM	On the other hand side, every Zil artificer who wants to go along with the gnomish tradition of binding elementals has to take the Bind Elemental feat and every Valenar who wants to be a tough raider can't be a single-class wizard. That's kinda the point. Bind Elemental naturally results from following a magical tradition. A Zil Gnome Fighter is not going to have that. Valenar Elves trend toward Rangers and Fighters. Still, there is no reason (nor penalty) for being a single-class wizard. I really didn't see anything in the description of the Valenar that says they don't respect their own mages. But any talenta halfling could have a bond with a dinosaur. It doesn't appear to be limited or restricted by class. So, if my Talenta Wizard wants to ride a dinosaur, he can. According to Talenta traditions, he is supposed to develop a bond and feel companionship for this animal. Unfortunately, the animal is turned to toast by an errant fireball because the halfling didn't take a PRC. Why would any Talenta in their right mind pick up another mount if it too will be turned to barbeque at the next combat? All I am saying is that the Talenta Dinosaur tradition is an interesting addition to the game. It is unfortunate that only a few classes can really enjoy this aspect of the game in the lower middle levels and up. For the average Talenta Barbarian, you are correct. However, he almost doesn't exist - most inhabitants of the plains are not barbarians, but warriors, guys with an NPC class who don't even get full HP for first level! Barbarians already are champions of their tribes. Oh, and while they are called barbarians, I believe it was said that rangers are more numerous.My opinion was based on Kinger's comment of a Talenta Barbarian. Granted, the majority of NPCs on the plains are probably Warriors, but I'm not really talking about them. When specifically talking about a class, it's probably not a good idea to talk about a Barbarian that's really a Warrior, but we call it a Barbarian anyway. That's needlessly confusing. -FF
gelalshawr 05-28-07, 03:36 PM	FF you might also want to take a look at the Talenta Dinosaur Bond feat pg.75 of the PGtE sidebar Talenta Feats
Yami 05-30-07, 07:55 PM	So, what would the ECL of an awakened magebred clawfoot be?