Natural Attack Bonus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Natural Attack Bonus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arryn
06-06-07, 02:26 PM Ok, I know this has probably been hashed and re-hashed a dozen times, but the Search feature won't let you put things in quotes so a search of "Natural Attack Bonus" comes up with every thread with at least one of those words in it instead of focusing on posts that have all three... ok... rant over.

My Shifter Ranger is going to be getting a bite attack next level, I understand that the attack is at -5, but -5 from what? Base Attack Bonus? Base Attack Bonus -2? (Since the Ranger fights with two weapons.) I'm having trouble finding clarification on this and E-Tools is subtracting -8 so I can't go off of that. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
tallric_kruush
06-06-07, 03:42 PM I'm curious to see how this is answered. I've always taken the -5 penalty off the character's BAB, and then added the usual modifiers from there. I don't believe the Two-Weapon Fighting will impact your Bite Attack, but that's where I could be wrong. The feat says that the weapon in each hand takes a penalty; it doesn't speak to natural attacks or the like.

So, ignoring any magic/masterwork bonuses, your Str mod, etc... I'd come up with this progression for your full attack (assuming shortsword as your weapon of choice for the sake of this post):

Two-weapon fighting Shortsword +3/+3 (weapon damage info) and Bite Attack +0 (damage info)

Of course, you can take the Shifter Multiattack Feat if you wish and reduce the -5 penalty to a -2 penalty. Using this feat, you will have a better attack bonus with your Bite Attack than you will with many of your later iterative attacks.

Yet, maybe I've applied the rules incorrectly. I'm curious to see what other feedback you get.
Belabras
06-07-07, 01:05 PM It's pretty simple really: For secondary natural attacks, the -5 is off of base BAB, and any penalties (from TWF, Flurry of Blows, etc) are applied to the Natural Attack as well.
tallric_kruush
06-07-07, 05:03 PM It's pretty simple really: For secondary natural attacks, the -5 is off of base BAB, and any penalties (from TWF, Flurry of Blows, etc) are applied to the Natural Attack as well.

I see. I've never applied the Two-Weapon Fighting penalty, but I do believe the feat says all attacks that round suffer the penalty.

Come to think of it, I've never had a two-weapon fighter with a natural attack. I did have a Longtooth shifter in one game, but he fought with a two-handed weapon (a greatsword). Arryn, do you think the natural attack on top of TWF might be overkill?
Arryn
06-07-07, 06:01 PM I see. I've never applied the Two-Weapon Fighting penalty, but I do believe the feat says all attacks that round suffer the penalty.

Come to think of it, I've never had a two-weapon fighter with a natural attack. I did have a Longtooth shifter in one game, but he fought with a two-handed weapon (a greatsword). Arryn, do you think the natural attack on top of TWF might be overkill?

No such thing as overkill when dealing with Shifters now is there? ;)
tallric_kruush
06-07-07, 06:20 PM No such thing as overkill when dealing with Shifters now is there? ;)

Well spoken, sir.
Edymnion
06-07-07, 09:12 PM Should be noted that its -5 from your HIGHEST BAB. Meaning you can make multiple attacks from high BAB, and then take a bite at -5 of your full BAB, not -5 from your last attack.
Elderich
06-11-07, 12:38 AM My Shifter Ranger is going to be getting a bite attack next level, I understand that the attack is at -5, but -5 from what?I do not understand the question.

Add up your bonuses, sub your bad things, then subtract 5. It is not subtracted from any "one" thing. It is a negative for the sum.
Cifer
06-11-07, 05:19 PM Should be noted that its -5 from your HIGHEST BAB.
I'm a bit fuzzy on the terminology here, but isn't there just one Base Attack Bonus which is (in the case of fighter and other full classes) equal to your level? Are the lower numbers really also called BAB?
Edymnion
06-12-07, 08:44 PM I'm a bit fuzzy on the terminology here, but isn't there just one Base Attack Bonus which is (in the case of fighter and other full classes) equal to your level? Are the lower numbers really also called BAB?Your BAB refers to your entire base attack bonus. For a 20th level fighter, their BAB is +20/+15/+10/+5. So, your highest BAB refers to your maximum BAB when you have more than one attack per round.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arryn 06-06-07, 02:26 PM	Ok, I know this has probably been hashed and re-hashed a dozen times, but the Search feature won't let you put things in quotes so a search of "Natural Attack Bonus" comes up with every thread with at least one of those words in it instead of focusing on posts that have all three... ok... rant over. My Shifter Ranger is going to be getting a bite attack next level, I understand that the attack is at -5, but -5 from what? Base Attack Bonus? Base Attack Bonus -2? (Since the Ranger fights with two weapons.) I'm having trouble finding clarification on this and E-Tools is subtracting -8 so I can't go off of that. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
tallric_kruush 06-06-07, 03:42 PM	I'm curious to see how this is answered. I've always taken the -5 penalty off the character's BAB, and then added the usual modifiers from there. I don't believe the Two-Weapon Fighting will impact your Bite Attack, but that's where I could be wrong. The feat says that the weapon in each hand takes a penalty; it doesn't speak to natural attacks or the like. So, ignoring any magic/masterwork bonuses, your Str mod, etc... I'd come up with this progression for your full attack (assuming shortsword as your weapon of choice for the sake of this post): Two-weapon fighting Shortsword +3/+3 (weapon damage info) and Bite Attack +0 (damage info) Of course, you can take the Shifter Multiattack Feat if you wish and reduce the -5 penalty to a -2 penalty. Using this feat, you will have a better attack bonus with your Bite Attack than you will with many of your later iterative attacks. Yet, maybe I've applied the rules incorrectly. I'm curious to see what other feedback you get.
Belabras 06-07-07, 01:05 PM	It's pretty simple really: For secondary natural attacks, the -5 is off of base BAB, and any penalties (from TWF, Flurry of Blows, etc) are applied to the Natural Attack as well.
tallric_kruush 06-07-07, 05:03 PM	It's pretty simple really: For secondary natural attacks, the -5 is off of base BAB, and any penalties (from TWF, Flurry of Blows, etc) are applied to the Natural Attack as well. I see. I've never applied the Two-Weapon Fighting penalty, but I do believe the feat says all attacks that round suffer the penalty. Come to think of it, I've never had a two-weapon fighter with a natural attack. I did have a Longtooth shifter in one game, but he fought with a two-handed weapon (a greatsword). Arryn, do you think the natural attack on top of TWF might be overkill?
Arryn 06-07-07, 06:01 PM	I see. I've never applied the Two-Weapon Fighting penalty, but I do believe the feat says all attacks that round suffer the penalty. Come to think of it, I've never had a two-weapon fighter with a natural attack. I did have a Longtooth shifter in one game, but he fought with a two-handed weapon (a greatsword). Arryn, do you think the natural attack on top of TWF might be overkill? No such thing as overkill when dealing with Shifters now is there? ;)
tallric_kruush 06-07-07, 06:20 PM	No such thing as overkill when dealing with Shifters now is there? ;) Well spoken, sir.
Edymnion 06-07-07, 09:12 PM	Should be noted that its -5 from your HIGHEST BAB. Meaning you can make multiple attacks from high BAB, and then take a bite at -5 of your full BAB, not -5 from your last attack.
Elderich 06-11-07, 12:38 AM	My Shifter Ranger is going to be getting a bite attack next level, I understand that the attack is at -5, but -5 from what?I do not understand the question. Add up your bonuses, sub your bad things, then subtract 5. It is not subtracted from any "one" thing. It is a negative for the sum.
Cifer 06-11-07, 05:19 PM	Should be noted that its -5 from your HIGHEST BAB. I'm a bit fuzzy on the terminology here, but isn't there just one Base Attack Bonus which is (in the case of fighter and other full classes) equal to your level? Are the lower numbers really also called BAB?
Edymnion 06-12-07, 08:44 PM	I'm a bit fuzzy on the terminology here, but isn't there just one Base Attack Bonus which is (in the case of fighter and other full classes) equal to your level? Are the lower numbers really also called BAB?Your BAB refers to your entire base attack bonus. For a 20th level fighter, their BAB is +20/+15/+10/+5. So, your highest BAB refers to your maximum BAB when you have more than one attack per round.