Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RaidoHaglaz 07-08-07, 02:45 PM	I'm not sure if this has been asked already, or is covered in any Eberron books (I only own ECS at the moment): would pistols fit into the Eberron setting? I'm not talking about semi-automatics or laserguns, but guns looking like wheellock or flintlock pistols, operated by magic instead of gunpowder, and even using magic instead of lead bullets. Think Gunmages from Iron Kingdoms and such. I have put something on paper, but it's not in English and since I'm not feeling to translate it all, I'll give the summary of it: These pistols (which I've dubbed arcane pistols) hold a dragonshard with a small elemental bound to it. They're still highly experimental, hard to use and very expensive to create (I've set it at 15,000 gp for a single pistol). Munition is unlimited, but the pistol can only be shot once every two rounds (because the power of the elemental surging through the barrel, heating it, shooting it every round would easily destroy it). So what do you people think of this? Would these pistols fit into Eberron or not? I know I'll have the final say on it, since I'll be running my own version of Eberron, but I like a bit of feedback.
Symar 07-08-07, 03:07 PM	As a rare, top-secret experiment of Cannith or Zilargo, perhaps.
RaidoHaglaz 07-08-07, 03:15 PM	Yes, well, not entirely, but yes. As I envisioned it, it is the product of experiments that were conducted at the end of the Last War, but never fully completed at that time, because when the war ended, the plug was pulled. After the Last War, only a small number of artificers, magewrights and some eccentric rich people were interested in it and stuck money into developing it further. The pistols aren't top-secret but extremely obscure. Ordinary people won't be interested in them one bit, because for them, bows will still be the most effective form of ranged combat. Ands on top of that, they're way too expensive for people who aren't dead set on using them on a day to day basis.
Kamikaze Chicken 07-09-07, 01:39 PM	Personally, i feel that wands covert he gun issue. How ever I have toyed with the idea for "gun wands" wands which hold attack spells only. There would be some that were crafted to look like pistols, and when the 50 shots were used up the "magazine" or wand would pop out and need to be reloaded. Granted you could just play an artificer with the cullw and essence feat. it lets you turn any spell in a completion item into a ray of energy. Gets you the same effect, and you only have to have 4 ranks in UMD to take the feat. and a wand ofcourse. Just some thoughts, perhaps a way to make an item which would allow you to activate ranged attack spells a number of times equal to your normal full attack? thoughts ideas? Perhpas a long barrel wand could be made which either increased the attack bonus when firing, or extended the range of the spell? i.e. a Long barrel of scorching ray would automaticaly have its range extended? ideas to ponder my friends, ideas to ponder.... KAMIKAZE! :chicken: out.
RaidoHaglaz 07-10-07, 04:37 PM	Wands mainly do cover the issue and it's more a matter of flavour than actual use. The main difference between a wand and a magical pistol would be that a pistol would be reloadable as opposed to a wand becoming nothing more than a stick when depleted and having to be recreated. Although a pistol would be more expensive to create, it should become cheaper in the long run. Also, I think a pistol is going to be easier to aim with as opposed to a wand, with the exception of spells like magic missile. As far as I know, using a wand is a standard action and would count against your attacks, but a long barreled wand (probably making it a staff, at least for a halfling) wouldn't be a bad idea. It could hold extra magical items enhancing aiming and therefore justifying it.
Cifer 07-10-07, 05:27 PM	Also, I think a pistol is going to be easier to aim with as opposed to a wand, with the exception of spells like magic missile. I doubt that. With pistols, you still need to somehow evade or pierce your opponent's armor (no, early pistols were most definitely not more armorpiercing than other weapons) while spells just need to hit and don't really care about armor. It's the difference between regular attacks and touch attacks.
Technocrat 07-11-07, 01:15 AM	The easiest way to deal with this is to grab the back issues of Polyhedron magazine that had the updated 3.0 version of the Spelljammer campaign setting, although since it was released back in 2002 across several issues using a file sharing program to obtain the whole edited package might be easier, search for Spelljammer: Shadow of the Spider Moon or the like. Amongst other addtions (feats, ship to ship 3D combat, prestige classes, the awesome size category, etc.) it added several new kinds of guns that behave alot like expensive, exotic versions of crossbows. They have exceptional range, above average damage, and prohibitive costs, at least at low levels, and the pistol is in there. A word of caution though, it would be possible to reload the pistol or the rifle as a free action with the rapid reload feat or the +1 equivalent enchantment whose name eludes me to reload the weapon as a free action, thus allowing clever players to dual wield 1d10 damage ranged weapons. I should know, I have an artificier who does this when he's not sniping with the rifle and it's 150 ft range increment.
RaidoHaglaz 07-11-07, 11:02 AM	I doubt that. With pistols, you still need to somehow evade or pierce your opponent's armor (no, early pistols were most definitely not more armorpiercing than other weapons) while spells just need to hit and don't really care about armor. It's the difference between regular attacks and touch attacks. Wel, that really depends on the ammo you use. If it's magical, it'll probably be alright. For being armourpiercing, a longbow would definitely do more damage than anything around, except for magical weaponry, of course. And thanks, Technocrat, I'll go and see if I can dive that up somewhere, though I don't have high hopes. Maybe it'll inspire me. :)
ShadowcatX 07-11-07, 11:44 AM	Wands mainly do cover the issue and it's more a matter of flavour than actual use. The main difference between a wand and a magical pistol would be that a pistol would be reloadable as opposed to a wand becoming nothing more than a stick when depleted and having to be recreated. Although a pistol would be more expensive to create, it should become cheaper in the long run. Also, I think a pistol is going to be easier to aim with as opposed to a wand, with the exception of spells like magic missile. As far as I know, using a wand is a standard action and would count against your attacks, but a long barreled wand (probably making it a staff, at least for a halfling) wouldn't be a bad idea. It could hold extra magical items enhancing aiming and therefore justifying it. I doubt it would be cheaper, a pistol's going to require black powder and bullets, and since bullets aren't being massproduced they're not going to be cheap, and then black powder is just however hard to get ahold of (and expensive) as the dm wants it to be. However, one advantage would be multiple shots, with two weapon fighting and quick draw you could concievably go through quite a few attacks with even one shot pistols.
Sarlax 07-11-07, 01:54 PM	I don't have any opposition to guns in Eberron, but I think that it's more likely that existing projectile weapons will be enhanced through magic, given the current state of affairs on Khorvaire. Some artificer will find a way to cheaply bind an earth elemental into a crossbow to use its strength to draw the weapon to deliver a more powerful shot, effectively creating a kind of mighty crossbow that uses the bound spirit's strength instead of the wielder's. That said, the item you've made sounds just fine for Eberron. It doesn't rely on implausible technological leaps but rather believable extensions of Khorvaire's current philosophy of innovation ("get someone else to do it").
RaidoHaglaz 07-11-07, 07:28 PM	I'm not planning on using black powder, although bullets might be an option, though at the moment I'm toying with the option of not using actual bullets at all, though maybe use them as a sort of spell component, something like magic stones. Having them come from Xen'drik would indeed be a nice touch settingwise, but I think not everything should have to come from Xen'drik. Sure, the civilisation of the giants was pretty powerful, but the people living in the age after the Last War will probably be able to come up with stuff on their own. It is a setting with a nod towards the industrial revolution and innovation would be pretty commonplace I presume.
Sarlax 07-12-07, 01:41 AM	I'm not planning on using black powder, although bullets might be an option, though at the moment I'm toying with the option of not using actual bullets at all, though maybe use them as a sort of spell component, something like magic stones. I just had a thought about the nature of the explosion that propels the bullet. Maybe it's a reaction between two violently opposed forces. Maybe the pistol is bound with a water elemental but the bullets are bound with fire elementites (Planar Handbook). When fired, the elementals contact, causing the water creature to boil so rapidly that the bullet is fired out, burning and bludgeoning its target, with big ejection of steam from the barrel.
Cifer 07-12-07, 10:25 AM	and since bullets aren't being massproduced they're not going to be cheap What do you need mass production for? All you need is a campfire, a pincer, a casting mould and some lead - all of them except for the campfire can be carried around. That's exactly what lansquenets did.
Sarlax 07-12-07, 12:17 PM	What do you need mass production for? All you need is a campfire, a pincer, a casting mould and some lead - all of them except for the campfire can be carried around. That's exactly what lansquenets did. Good point. Likewise, there's no reason why magic won't soon step in to simplify this issue. Fabricate can easily create effectively endless ammunition from any appropriate material.
Edymnion 07-12-07, 12:56 PM	Here we go again! http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=829366
Arryn 07-12-07, 01:30 PM	Here we go again! http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=829366 Dont mind Edymnion RaidoHaglaz, he's sort of this boards answer to the Comic Book Guy on "The Simpsons." I guess he figures that since he spends entirely too much time on these boards that everyone else should as well. The polite thing to say would have been, "Hey, this is a topic that has been discussed a lot already. Why don't you check out this link and maybe it will answer your questions for you." Anyway, while the thread he linked to does have a lot to do with your topic, please feel free to continue your discussion.
Edymnion 07-12-07, 05:32 PM	Dont mind Edymnion RaidoHaglaz, he's sort of this boards answer to the Comic Book Guy on "The Simpsons." I guess he figures that since he spends entirely too much time on these boards that everyone else should as well. The polite thing to say would have been, "Hey, this is a topic that has been discussed a lot already. Why don't you check out this link and maybe it will answer your questions for you." Anyway, while the thread he linked to does have a lot to do with your topic, please feel free to continue your discussion.Its not that bad. The thread was still on the second page of the forum, it had only been quiet for a couple weeks. Not knocking the OP, but even a cursory glance would have found it, and its not like the thing was from last year, so I'd say calling me a fat sarcastic guy that nobody likes is a bit overkill.
Cifer 07-12-07, 07:58 PM	Well, you're definitely sarcastic. I don't know about your body weight, but some people seem to like you. So it's either one or two out of three... *g*
Edymnion 07-13-07, 12:32 PM	Well, you're definitely sarcastic. I don't know about your body weight, but some people seem to like you. So it's either one or two out of three... *g*:P
RaidoHaglaz 07-13-07, 05:02 PM	Its not that bad. The thread was still on the second page of the forum, it had only been quiet for a couple weeks. Not knocking the OP, but even a cursory glance would have found it, and its not like the thing was from last year, so I'd say calling me a fat sarcastic guy that nobody likes is a bit overkill. You may knock all you want. :) I've browsed through every part of the Eberron forum two or three times and never noticed that thread. I don't know why or how, but that's how it is. Thanks for the link, Edymnion. Also, I like Sarlax's idea of a bound water elemental in the gun and fire elementals in bullets, but I think it might be a lot of work to bind a fire elemental into every single bullet, though they'd be far more valuable. I guess this topic can be closed, though.
Edymnion 07-13-07, 10:52 PM	but I think it might be a lot of work to bind a fire elemental into every single bulletHeh, not to mention horribly expensive. I don't think I've ever seen an elementally bound item of any kind that was under 10k gold. And can you imagine how many Tiny elementals you'd need to bind to make ammo for the thing viable? Although, it could work like Gene's caster from Outlaw Star. Extremely powerful weapon, but the ammo is so rare that every time you fire it off is a big deal.
Sarlax 07-14-07, 01:12 AM	Also, I like Sarlax's idea of a bound water elemental in the gun and fire elementals in bullets, but I think it might be a lot of work to bind a fire elemental into every single bullet, though they'd be far more valuable. That's why I suggested fire elementites, which are swarms of little tiny fire elementals. Each swarm contains hundreds of creatures which are nearly mindless. Binding swarms all together with hundreds of rounds of ammunition shouldn't be terrible difficult. Second, while the binding process describe in Magic of Eberron is full of flavor, it's really got next to nothing to do with the value of the finished good. Like everything in D&D, the cost is not based on the rarity of materials worked or the difficulty in crafting but in the utility of the finished product. How much is a piece of ammunition worth that deal something like 2d6 damage, half of which is fire? Well, that's pretty much the damage of magical shortbow ammo, which is right around 2300 per 50 bullets. The other way to do this is to just bind the elementals in different parts of the gun. When you pull the trigger, the fire and water elementals collide, releasing a tremendous burst of steam that propels the mundane round.
RaidoHaglaz 07-14-07, 08:21 AM	Heh, that makes it look a bit like a handheld hydrogen bomb. For the record, I thought 'elementites' was a mistake or a different name you gave elementals, since I don't own the planar handbook. Maybe it would be fun to make pistols a kind of eldritch machine thing. There only exists one (or one pair) and takes a lot of time and/or money to create and use. Just stating that it would require someone who is completely deranged and has a lot of time and resources on his/her hands would be enough to keep the numbers down to just those two pistols.
Sarlax 07-14-07, 11:53 AM	Maybe it would be fun to make pistols a kind of eldritch machine thing. There only exists one (or one pair) and takes a lot of time and/or money to create and use. Just stating that it would require someone who is completely deranged and has a lot of time and resources on his/her hands would be enough to keep the numbers down to just those two pistols. That's not a bad approach. The big inventor in Eberron are the artificers, who are very nearly mad scientists. Since they can tackle almost any project alone, there are no design constraints on their magic items except the specifications of the client. The client wants an easy-to-use high-impact ranged weapon (a gun, but he doesn't know that). The artificer isn't thinking about how to make a gun that can be produced in an assembly line but rather how to satisfy Likon ir'Malm. Maybe the weapon uses a Fabricate effect to create bullets on the fly. Maybe it's just a really expensive unlimited-use magic missile device. Maybe it's got a tiny Ring Gate inside, with homunculi sending in bullets from some manufacturing site.
ZappoHisbane 07-15-07, 10:37 PM	I say go for something based on miniature conductor stones. Railgun anyone? :D
Edymnion 07-16-07, 01:53 PM	I say go for something based on miniature conductor stones. Railgun anyone? :DDoesn't work, its the bound elemental that propels the rail, not the stones. So again, we get the problem of needing to use a very rare and very expensive elemental binding procedure just to make bullets. And, why would anyone make that in the first place, when its so much cheaper, easier, and faster to just make a +1 Sonic repeating hand crossbow?
Creature_Mastermind 07-16-07, 05:46 PM	And, why would anyone make that in the first place, when its so much cheaper, easier, and faster to just make a +1 Sonic repeating hand crossbow? Cuase it's waaaaay more fun and cause it'd be way cooler lol.
Edymnion 07-16-07, 09:52 PM	Cuase it's waaaaay more fun and cause it'd be way cooler lol.And a flying car is way more fun and cooler than a normal car. We have the ability to build them right now. The problem is that they are horribly expensive, would take MASSIVE amounts of research and design to make them practical, and all around just aren't as efficient as normal cars and commuter planes. Just because something is cool and fun doesn't mean it is a good idea.
ryanroyce 07-16-07, 11:18 PM	IMO, it isn't the prevalence of wands that keeps traditional blackpowder firearms out of Eberron and other D&D worlds (wands require significant training to use; firearms do not), but it is instead the prevalence of long-range fire spells with nigh-perfect aim (i.e., fireball) that does it. Having a storehouse of blackpowder just means that you're sabotaging yourself, easily negating the advantages of massed firearms use. Remove the necessity of blackpowder by substituting fire-elemental "flints" and you're good to go, satisfying the practical limitations of blackpowder in a fantasy world and, more importantly, maintaining the thematic element of magical technology in Eberron.
Edymnion 07-17-07, 08:28 AM	But we're still left with the fact that we have Eberron source books that basically say "Cannith came up with all kinds of weird stuff, but they were too expensive for anybody to ever actually buy and use, so they got tossed on the shelf". While an elemental gun could be one of those, it still boils down to one thing. As a PC, would you invest a large chunk of your character wealth in a weapon that is no more powerful than any other weapon, which is available at half or a third the price?
RaidoHaglaz 07-17-07, 01:20 PM	Nope, you wouldn't. That's why most people use bows instead. But maybe the guns that House Cannith invented had a certain edge, maybe useful to some, but useless to the masses, which is why producing them doesn't have any use. It's like creating and using wands instead of bows. Bows are a lot easier to use and produce. But over time, a wand can become a lot more potent in your hands, if you would devote time and effort to become a better wand user. The point I am trying to make is, a gun could be more useful then a bow, but it would require a lot of devotion, I guess. Of course, that is when we're speaking magically operated guns, since using blackpowder guns is not only easier, but also cheaper. It's just a thought, I guess, but maybe a gun made by House Cannith is so utterly weak that a sling could beat it damagewise. But in the right hands (someone with some kind of nifty power) it may become a very destructive weapon. To be effective, it then would require somebody special and advanced in some trait or skill to properly use the gun.
Rekko 07-18-07, 10:28 AM	Here is an idea for a Pistol with Eberron flavor. Conductor stones are said to repel each other strongly. Diminutive versions of the conductor stones could be used as bullets for a gun. There would be one diminutive conductor stone that would serve as 'powder'. This last one would be strongly fixed deep into the gun's shaft. Then, you would have to load one 'bullet' conductor stone. Some mechanical/magical force would hold the two diminutive conductor stone together. Pulling the trigger would release the 'bullet' conductor stone from the gun, repelled by the 'powder' conductor stone locked in the gun. You could use the same stats for the pistol on p.145 in the DMG. Only, their crafting would have more Eberron flavor. Each time you pull the trigger, a jet of lightning and a strong tunder-like sound erupts from the hand gun. Hit by a bullet, the speed of the bullet would deliver bludgeoning damage and if your target is next to you, piercing damage with a chance of passing through your target and hitting someone behind. Maybe it could also deliver electric, fire or magic damage to its target, the bullets are still diminutive conductor stones. Rekko
Edymnion 07-18-07, 12:36 PM	Here is an idea for a Pistol with Eberron flavor. Conductor stones are said to repel each other strongly. Diminutive versions of the conductor stones could be used as bullets for a gun. There would be one diminutive conductor stone that would serve as 'powder'. This last one would be strongly fixed deep into the gun's shaft. Then, you would have to load one 'bullet' conductor stone. Some mechanical/magical force would hold the two diminutive conductor stone together. Pulling the trigger would release the 'bullet' conductor stone from the gun, repelled by the 'powder' conductor stone locked in the gun.It should be noted, however, that even a lightning rail with the full power of a bound elemental propelling it down the stones only hits 30-40 miles per hour. Thats slow pitch softball speed. For a point of comparison, a modern handgun has a muzzle velocity of up to 3,000 meters per second (6,700 miles per hour), with "slow" bullets being in the range of 800-1,000 meters per second (roughly 1,800-2,200 mph). For reference, the speed of sound is only 340 meters per second (760 mph). The report of a gunshot isn't the black powder going off, its the fact that the bullet is leaving the gun at 3-10x the speed of sound. What you hear is a sonic boom. You could throw the ammunition harder than you could shoot it with conductor stones.
Rekko 07-18-07, 12:50 PM	Well, the Air elemental controls the speed of the train by making it levitate lower of higher to the conductor stone rails. The Closer to the stone the train is, the faster it goes, for the repulsion is stronger (as magnets IMO) Maybe the large conductor stones are slow to repel themselves because of their size, maybe the diminutive conductor stones are faster and fast enough to weild as a weapon, in this case a pistol. I was waiting for our reply Edy. I know you don't want pistols in your Eberron game, but how do you like the ones I came up with?
Edymnion 07-18-07, 07:47 PM	Honestly, conductor stones is not the way to go. I mean, each lightning rail train is supposed to carry a supply of them in case they need to replace a broken/stolen piece of the rail. The fact they can keep enough full sized stones in one train (and presumably in the same storage car) really goes a long way to say that the things just aren't powerful enough to be used as a weapon.
Sarlax 07-19-07, 01:21 AM	It should be noted, however, that even a lightning rail with the full power of a bound elemental propelling it down the stones only hits 30-40 miles per hour. Thats slow pitch softball speed. This doesn't take into account the total kinetic energy that's in play here. While the velocity produced by the lightning rail isn't too exciting, the total kinetic energy of the system is - althought I'd first disclaim: magic is magic and that real physics isn't the way to go here. I'll also declare that I have no idea what the mass of the lightning rail is, but I'm sure it's safe to say it's many metric tons, or many millions of grams, making it millions of times more massive than a bullet. Kinetic energy is .5(m)v^2. If you decrease the mass by a factor of a million, you can keep the same kinetic energy while increasing the velocity 1000 times. Sure, you can't preserve this perfectly because of the needs to miniaturize the conductor stones, but there's a ton of potential energy in the system.
Rekko 07-19-07, 03:09 AM	Actually, the large conductor stones can't come in nearer than five feet between each one. Going from Large to Diminutive (passing by medium, small, tiny) this distance could be shortened to a few inches. For storage for a gunslinger's use, I'd way extradimensional place would be required since the stones repel themselves. A small pouch (similar to a bag of holding) could be used to store up to 10 bullets. If not for the extradimensional space, the 10 bullets would form a sphere about the size of a soccer ball. Thanks to the extradimensional space, the pouch is about the size of a tennis ball. If you think that the repelling of the diminutive conductor stones isn't enough to inflict damage to a target, imbue the pistol with magic missile or gust of wind or some low spell that you see fit. Rekko
Edymnion 07-19-07, 12:34 PM	If you think that the repelling of the diminutive conductor stones isn't enough to inflict damage to a target, imbue the pistol with magic missileWhich goes back to "Why not just use wands with a bent grip?". Maybe just make a handle for a wand that gives the user +5 to their UMD checks to activate it, and lets them count as being trained (so they can actually make the check in the first place).
Rekko 07-19-07, 01:31 PM	That's a good idea, but IMO I don't think that the gun would need to be imbued with magic missile.
Burningspear 07-19-07, 05:41 PM	I say go for something based on miniature conductor stones. Railgun anyone? :D http://www.railwaygun.co.uk/ Maybe something along these lines as a secret weapon? :Tie:
ZappoHisbane 07-21-07, 02:23 PM	Actually, the large conductor stones can't come in nearer than five feet between each one. Going from Large to Diminutive (passing by medium, small, tiny) this distance could be shortened to a few inches. For storage for a gunslinger's use, I'd way extradimensional place would be required since the stones repel themselves. A small pouch (similar to a bag of holding) could be used to store up to 10 bullets. If not for the extradimensional space, the 10 bullets would form a sphere about the size of a soccer ball. Thanks to the extradimensional space, the pouch is about the size of a tennis ball. If you think that the repelling of the diminutive conductor stones isn't enough to inflict damage to a target, imbue the pistol with magic missile or gust of wind or some low spell that you see fit. Rekko This is along the lines of what I was thinking earlier when I mentioned railguns (as opposed to the railcar-mounted artillery depicted in an earlier post). Rather than using expensive conductor stones as ammunition, I'd simply use the replusion effect between the two stones as a substitute for black powder. You would have one stone in a fixed position at the non-business end of the tube, and the other fixed to a mount that slides back and forth within the barrel, but never actually exits. You '****' the weapon by bringing the stones close together until they're held in place, then release by pulling the trigger. It's basically a high-powered and potentially more accurate slingshot. Only thing I'm not sure about here is how to disable to the replusion effect so that you can bring the stones close together again for the next shot. A more advanced idea is also possible, assuming that the replusion effect between conductor stones is directional. You could have a long barrel lined on two or four sides with mini-conductor stones pointed diagonally forward. Using the same slide mechanism as above, all you'd need to do is give the slide a little push forward into the repulsion barrel, and it'd accelerate like a shot. Excuse the pun. This thing would be very expensive of course because of the multiple stones, and would most likely have to be constructed very sturdily as the stones within the barrel will interact with each other to a mild degree at least. On the plus side, all that lightning constantly crackling withing the barrel will look really cool. :) Oh, and Edy? I know chances are that these ideas would be too expensive to ever see the light of day in mass-production. For me, it's mostly a thought-experiment, a fun way to think up new weird and wonderful toys using the settings established mechanics. Sort of. :P
ShadowcatX 07-23-07, 10:20 AM	What do you need mass production for? All you need is a campfire, a pincer, a casting mould and some lead - all of them except for the campfire can be carried around. That's exactly what lansquenets did. You can melt lead on a campfire? A melting point of 621 degrees Farenheight might be doable on a campfire. . . Also, you're going to need black powder, primer, etc. none of which will be cheap. Also, given how young the technology is going to be, I sincerely doubt they're going to be mass producing casting molds either.
Wymarc 07-23-07, 01:53 PM	I'm not sure if this has been asked already, or is covered in any Eberron books (I only own ECS at the moment): would pistols fit into the Eberron setting? I'm not talking about semi-automatics or laserguns, but guns looking like wheellock or flintlock pistols, operated by magic instead of gunpowder, and even using magic instead of lead bullets. Think Gunmages from Iron Kingdoms and such. I have put something on paper, but it's not in English and since I'm not feeling to translate it all, I'll give the summary of it: These pistols (which I've dubbed arcane pistols) hold a dragonshard with a small elemental bound to it. They're still highly experimental, hard to use and very expensive to create (I've set it at 15,000 gp for a single pistol). Munition is unlimited, but the pistol can only be shot once every two rounds (because the power of the elemental surging through the barrel, heating it, shooting it every round would easily destroy it). So what do you people think of this? Would these pistols fit into Eberron or not? I know I'll have the final say on it, since I'll be running my own version of Eberron, but I like a bit of feedback. hmmm... as a one off, I like it. Just not a common thing. As something unique to set a npc or character apart
KrisTheGreat 08-01-07, 01:22 AM	If i was going to make a magic pistol i would use a air elemental and make a super powered bb gun.
RuckusFox 08-03-07, 12:52 PM	Only if you include the Ravenloft Campaign Setting in with it. If you're interested in old-fashioned guns, get that book. It has a good section about it.
Delfedd 08-19-07, 12:40 AM	It's just a thought, I guess, but maybe a gun made by House Cannith is so utterly weak that a sling could beat it damagewise. But in the right hands (someone with some kind of nifty power) it may become a very destructive weapon. To be effective, it then would require somebody special and advanced in some trait or skill to properly use the gun. The ability to turn or rebuke fire or water elementals! Woo! Gun wielding clerics! The priest of Onatar takes the gun from the Bishop of the Devourer. That'd be pretty neat.
Rekko 09-01-07, 11:17 AM	Pistol: This weapon looks like a hand crossbow except that the bow part of the weapon has been removed and a special wand chamber has been added in the crafting process. As you can guess, this weapon doesn't fire bolts. It instead fires raw magical energy as if using the Cull Wand Essence feat. The pistol's ammunitions come from the charges of the stored wand, and its damage is determined with the level of the spell held in the wand. Pistol weilders need to note a few things before using the weapon. First, you need some exotic weapon proficiency in hand crossbows or firearms. Second, you need a wand stored in the pistol, and note that you can't use the spell of the wand while it is stored in the pistol. Third, damage is the same as Cull Wand Essence (MoE p.46) but is also considered magic and piercing for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Fourth, the attack can't be stopped by Spell resistance (as in the Cull Wand Essence description). Fifth, firing takes five charges off the wand, thus allowing you to fire 10 times out of a fully charged wand. Sixth and last, targets protected by the Sheild spell consider damaged as if the spell of the wand was one level lower. If the wand was level 1, now considered level 0, it deals no damage. Requirements: Wand Chamber improvement, Cull Wand Essence, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, (Craft Wand?), (Magic Missile?) Cost: hum... ??? Hook: Say hello to my boomstick! http://www.redriverrenegades.com/CLASSIC_FRENCH_DUELING_PISTOL_copy.gif
oleher 09-05-07, 01:52 PM	ive seen this discussion 100 times on this forum, go play d20 modern its like DnD with guns...
Sithraldor 09-17-07, 09:03 AM	Limit Sniper (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13656317&postcount=9) This class has a gun called a Chain "Chamber Infuser" very favorful I like it, I'm thinking about trying the class. The class is FF based but the chains (guns) are useable I think, and the class for that matter. I like the idea but I think if you aren't using the class the cost probably should be higher. But I could see these things with a eberron shard with a bound elemental to give them that elementals energy type. Tell me what you think because I would be playing it in Eberron.
Moosh Nailo 09-17-07, 06:54 PM	Steps for an easy, eberron-flavoured "gun": 1-Locate skinny warlock. 2-Pick up warlock and point in general direction of enemy 3-Squeeze
Closet_Nerd 09-18-07, 09:59 AM	I'm surprised no one has brought up the 0th level spell "Launch bolt". If it's the form factor you're looking for make a handy dandy carrying apparatus for your wand. +quiver of potentially magical bolts = function of gun. if you've got magic of faerun there's a prestige class entitled "artificer" who creates quasi-mechanical items with quasi-magic. It would make a good prestige class for the eberron artificer, esp one who wants to build items not unlike guns or d&d style power suits... Heck you could even put a rotating assembly of bolts around the wand to replicate the barrels of a gattling style gun and the idea of magazines. Up the scale a bit and you've got a deck gun for an airship. EDIT: Make it two hands to use but allow it to fire every round until the magic or projectiles are expended. move equivalent action (that provokes AoO) to replace the "magazine"; full round action (that provokes) to replace the wand. allow it to accommodate a bayonet from Complete Scoundrel. Too expensive/ heavy/complex for use by the average soldier (requiring use magic device) but just useful enough to be used -not abused- by (n)pc's
pyro_mania1803 11-12-07, 05:57 PM	I'm not sure if someone said this or not, but you should look into Iron Kingdoms for pistols and rifles. You might have to tweak them a bit, and there are some good prestige classes in there as well. You might like it, i know i do.
RyuuzakiLawliet 11-21-07, 02:12 PM	OK this might be relevant and it might not be. I had heard somewhere about Eberron being set (technology wise) in the real world's 1800's. I did some research and found out that Samuel Colt made the first non flint lock revolver in 1835. So if you dont want to go for a flintlock type pistol or rifle, a regular gun would be doable in the Eberron world. I know I have seen on these boards classes made for gun use. One that I enjoy is the Revolver Scion. Sorry dont have a link of where to find it right off hand, but it does help balance out how powerful a gun can with price and materials of making it.