Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lucent 02-14-08, 10:21 AM	So, I've noticed several people have given a whack at this. I designed this for a campaign I ran in 2007 and they've seen use since with other campaigns. The Shardgun was sort've a creative combination of a throw-away idea I had in a campaign, where I was distributing treasure in a Mournlands encounter, and included some "unknown weapon designs" that the PCs could sell to interested buyers, weapons Cannith devised at Whitehearth and never got to put into production. The Shardgun was one I briefly explain, and didn't expect the players to get invested in. So, one of the players did (Ha ha). We discussed plans how his Artificer could design them, he went through several "trial and error" phases, utilizing Eberron shards as ammunition and magical energy as a catalyst. Then, once he had a working prototype, sold it and the designs back to House Cannith. Industrious, they offered him some freelancing work as well outside of the house for his efforts. But, background aside, I present the Shardgun as it was last revised at the end of that campaign. It's in PDF form, feel free to use and adapt it to your own campaigns as you desire. The Shardgun (http://pyroxene.antipyretic.net/Shardgun.pdf) (PDF Document: right-click/save-as) Commentary would be appreciated. Pricing was based on the Eternal wand and the "magical ammunition" article from an older issue of Dragon Magazine.
Karon_the_Orange 02-14-08, 01:42 PM	I get a 404 error when I try to view the PDF. The link doesn't appear to go to the PDF.
Ashilyn 02-14-08, 06:12 PM	An alternate link to the Shardgun (http://pyroxene.antipyretic.net/Shardgun.pdf). As you can probably guess, I've read over this before, and I find it to be an intriguing weapon, to say the least. I have a character that will be using the weapon in an upcoming game, and I'm excited. I like the way it combines an early gun with an eternal wand, making it a highly useful and versatile weapon. Everything from a standard shot, to Rays of Fire and, if you feel like getting the drop on an enemy, even summoning spells work with it, making it great for a variety of situations and classes, as well as as being nice for giving useful lower level spells to, basically, anybody (for a price). There's not much I dislike about it offhand. If I wanted to nitpick over something it would be price - and not that I think it should be cheaper, rather, I'm surprised it's not more expensive, given how complicated, rare, and versatile the Shardgun is.
Lucent 02-14-08, 06:44 PM	See, and this is why I love my players, always catching my mistakes like broken links or what not. What would I do without them? :D (also, edited the first link to be correct)
AlHazred 02-15-08, 09:38 PM	I like this. It's more or less equivalent to guns as presented in the DMG, with a few minor differences. Some comments: The DMG has pistols doing 1d10 damage, rifles doing 1d12. I like the d6 progression, which allows for people to upgun when needed. The DMG prices bullets at 3 gp for 10. I can see the inclusion of dragonshard dust/particles being a reasonable reason for the increase in price; it also keeps it out of the hands of penurious player characters. I wonder if there shouldn't be some simple enhancement for shardshot made from Khyber and Siberys shards. Perhaps Siberys shardshells should count as magic weapons for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction? Perhaps Khyber shardshells also cause 1 point of Strength damage if a DC 15 Fortitude save is failed? I'd like to also say, nice image! That's a catchy picture, just brimming with Eberron flavor! Who did that?
Lucent 02-16-08, 01:07 AM	The idea of shards for Khyber and Syberis are a good idea, I'm thinking each type of shard might allow a different type of energy source to be made caster shells from. Syberis shards could obviously contain psionic powers, since they seem to be used for that often. Khyber shards I'm not entirely certain on, but I'm open to suggestions! The artwork was done by the user darkphoenix (http://dakphoenix.deviantart.com/art/Gene-Starwinds-Caster-Gun-803549) on Deviant Art and is the character Gene Starwind's "Caster Gun" from the show Outlaw Star, which served as the inspiration for this weapon.
LunarWolfPrime 02-16-08, 08:23 PM	It is a "Caster" for D20 I love "Outlaw Star"
Lucent 02-17-08, 09:38 AM	As do I, and I couldn't resist finding a place to fit it into Eberron. The visual of crystal bullets is pretty keen too!
LunarWolfPrime 02-17-08, 11:39 AM	another thing is that their are more lvl's in the shells than what is being shown.
Kalthandrix 02-18-08, 03:57 PM	Interesting idea! I think there are a few rough spots that would be worked over - pricing/creation and effects being some - but overall I think that this is the ONLY seeing that an item like this really makes the fit. If I begin to run an Eberron game again - or take part in one - I will be sure to take a stab at working with this. Thanks for sharing - and the picture is awesome BTW!
Lucent 02-19-08, 06:31 AM	Interesting idea! I think there are a few rough spots that would be worked over - pricing/creation and effects being some - but overall I think that this is the ONLY seeing that an item like this really makes the fit. If I begin to run an Eberron game again - or take part in one - I will be sure to take a stab at working with this. Thanks for sharing - and the picture is awesome BTW! Thanks for the comment. What pricing changes would you recommend? I based the pricing off of the cost of an Eternal Wand as shown in the Magic Item Compendium, do you think they should be more expensive, less?
Kalthandrix 02-19-08, 12:00 PM	I have some ideas, but I will need to play around with your doc and the tables to get my ideas out. First off, after some general thinking and such, I think it may be a bad move to allow something like a caster shot - I can see this being too wildly abused. I know you based this shot off of the eternal wands, but there is a stop-gap for the wands - you have to have the spell on your spell list or have ranks in Use Magic Device to use them, but that would not be the case for caster-shot - but that is not to say that this weapon could not have some very special shells If you do not mind, I wil post up my ideas on this thread when I can get them down and typed out - but I am super psyched at some of the stuff I am dreaming up.
Sithraldor 02-19-08, 01:43 PM	I thought maybe the weapon on this post might be a good way to do it. Limit Sniper & chain
Kalthandrix 02-19-08, 02:22 PM	Here is some of the stuff I have come up with as kind of a preview to my thoughts on this: Exotic Weapons Damage Damage Weapon Cost (S) (M) Crit Range Weight Type Shardgun, hand 250gp 1d6 1d6 X2 80 ft. 2lbs Piercing Shard-shell (5) 10gp - - - - - - Shardgun, heavy 375gp 2d4 2d4 X3 60 ft. 5lbs Piercing Shard-shell (5) 15gp - - - - 1/20lbs - Shardgun, long-barrel 750gp 2d6 2d6 X3 120 ft. 8lbs Piercing Shard-shell (5) 25gp - - - - 1/10lbs - Specialized Shardshot Adamantine x4 19-20/+x1 - Alchemical x1.5 +1d4 +1d4 - Bone-stopper x3 Special -25% Bludgeoning Forged-fist x2 - Mind-bleeder x3 - Silver-bane x3 - Adamantine: adamantine sheaths each of these shells, allowing it to ignore hardness less than 20. The critical threat range for these shells is increased to 19-20 and their critical modifier increases by x1. This effect does not stack with any magical or psionic effect that modifies critical attacks. Alchemical: These shells come in two varieties, fire and acid. Much like the bone-stoppers and silver-bane shells, these items hold a small reservoir of either alchemical fire or acid that collapse with it hits and unleashes the caustic element within. Bone-stopper: deals bludgeoning damage and retains a small reservoir of holy water that deals an additional 1d4 damage to undead creatures (1d6 for long-barrel ammunition). Because of their blunt shape, bone-stopper shells have their range reduced by 25%. Forged-fist: These shells are loaded with a different and more powerful formulation of the shard-based alchemy. If an opponent is hit with one of these shells, they take damage as normal, but are also subject to a bull-rush attempt (+5 Modifier). If hit with multiple forged shot in a single round, the bull rush modifier is increased by +2 for each additional hit. If the shooter wins the opposed Strength check, the target is forced back 5 feet. If they cannot move back they the target falls prone. Because of the powerful mixture, shooting more than one of these shells in a single round disrupts the shardgun wielder’s aim. For each additional forged-fist shardshotl fired in a single round, the attack roll suffers a cumulative -2 to attack. This type of ammunition can only be purchased for the heavy or long-barrel shardguns. Mind-bleeder: This type of shardshot is the bane of psionic users. Tiny slivers of specially prepaired Serybus dragonshards are implanted within this item, and when it hits a creature with a psionic power point reserve, the shards awaken. The small dragonshards will absorb small amounts of psionic energy from the being they are embedded within and discharge it in a small burst of light, which also burns out that small crystal fragment. A psionic creature hit with a mind-bleeder shot also looses 1d4 power points. Silver-bane: Coated with silver, this shardshot is perfect for hunting undead and lycanthropes alike. A small reservoir inside the shot contains a mixture of liquid silver and belladonna extract which acts as a poison for any of the moon-cursed hit with them (effects of poison TBD). As you can see, I have several types of special ammo to go with the shardgun. I am still working through the write-ups on them, but all of this will effectively make this a nonmagical item as I had stated earlier, and have it lean more toward an alchemy-based item that would be ripe for augmenting by an articifer.
Lucent 02-23-08, 01:41 PM	you have to have the spell on your spell list or have ranks in Use Magic Device to use them Actually you don't. As of the Magic Item Compendium, Eternal Wands are no longer spell-trigger items, anyone can use them to their desired effect. Also, I really like the idea of the specialized shardshot, I figure there could be two kinds of adamantine. One that contained adamantine slivers and is relatively cost-effective and does what is listed there, and the other an adamantine coated "slug" that pierces hardness and such like regular adamantine ammo dies.
Demon_Paladin 02-26-08, 10:54 AM	I've been lurking for a bit, and I really like the way this is coming along. I printed off the base stats and I"ll play with it a little bit tonight. I love snowdays.
Kalthandrix 02-26-08, 12:19 PM	Here are the details of the shardshot listed above (which I will also add to the post with the stats on the shardgun). Crafting cost and DCs TBD. Adamantine: adamantine sheaths each of these shells, allowing it to ignore hardness less than 20. The critical threat range for these shells is increased to 19-20 and their critical modifier increases by x1. This effect does not stack with any magical or psionic effect that modifies critical attacks. Alchemical: These shells come in two varieties, fire and acid. Much like the bone-stoppers and silver-bane shells, these items hold a small reservoir of either alchemical fire or acid that collapse with it hits and unleashes the caustic element within. Bone-stopper: deals bludgeoning damage and retains a small reservoir of holy water that deals an additional 1d4 damage to undead creatures (1d6 for long-barrel ammunition). Because of their blunt shape, bone-stopper shells have their range reduced by 25%. Forged-fist: These shells are loaded with a different and more powerful formulation of the shard-based alchemy. If an opponent is hit with one of these shells, they take damage as normal, but are also subject to a bull-rush attempt (+5 Modifier). If hit with multiple forged shot in a single round, the bull rush modifier is increased by +2 for each additional hit. If the shooter wins the opposed Strength check, the target is forced back 5 feet. If they cannot move back they the target falls prone. Because of the powerful mixture, shooting more than one of these shells in a single round disrupts the shardgun wielder’s aim. For each additional forged-fist shardshotl fired in a single round, the attack roll suffers a cumulative -2 to attack. This type of ammunition can only be purchased for the heavy or long-barrel shardguns. Mind-bleeder: This type of shardshot is the bane of psionic users. Tiny slivers of specially prepaired Serybus dragonshards are implanted within this item, and when it hits a creature with a psionic power point reserve, the shards awaken. The small dragonshards will absorb small amounts of psionic energy from the being they are embedded within and discharge it in a small burst of light, which also burns out that small crystal fragment. A psionic creature hit with a mind-bleeder shot also looses 1d4 power points. Silver-bane: Coated with silver, this shardshot is perfect for hunting undead and lycanthropes alike. A small reservoir inside the shot contains a mixture of liquid silver and belladonna extract which acts as a poison for any of the moon-cursed hit with them (effects of poison TBD).
vlsigma 02-29-08, 04:44 AM	Kyber shards could be inbued with different elemental properties, like how they are used for binding weapons and armor, and creation could be casting a spell with the specific elemental descriptor on it, like fire for fire, cold for ice, acidic for earth, and sonic for wind. These imbued bullets could either do damage of that type or have extra damage of that descriptor.
GuyrtheadamantineOne 03-08-08, 07:57 AM	The XP penalty you wrote in the various bullets and the gun are wrong. It should be 1/25 the crafting price.
blueatari 03-11-08, 10:10 PM	Actually you don't. As of the Magic Item Compendium, Eternal Wands are no longer spell-trigger items, anyone can use them to their desired effect. Actually, the magic item compendium says the same as the ECS, that any character... that can cast arcane spells... can activate them. Not to mention that even if you were to keep that restriction on your shardgun, eternal wands only function 2 times per day. A good way to look at it would be to price it like an item that could duplicate a spell for any character... maybe a shardgun that effectively allows for the casting of 'launch bolt' (0th lvl) from the spell compendium at will, for 1800gp. The cost coming from the Hand of the Mage item from the DMG which allows for anyone to use mage hand (0th lvl) at will for 900gp, double the price because it doesn't take a body slot. The discharge of magic energy and the choice of shards as ammo for awesome flavor and cool-factor. As for caster shells, i would look again to items that anyone could use as a base for price. In this case, i think potions work best. Allow them to be crafted with any spell of up to 3rd level in them (the spell level limit for potions). this way, you could still launch fireball shots (which is awesome), but the price makes it harder for a fighter to out-wizard a wizard in every fight. 750gp for a 3rd lvl effect available to anyone is costly, but not so much so that it is out of the question to carry a few awesome pieces of ammunition once and a while. Also since this pricing is a bit more, its not out of the question to allow for any school of magic, a shell loaded with dispel magic could be as effective in combat as any evoc/conj spell. I would just limit it to ranged single-target, ranged touch, or ranged area of effect spells that cast as a standard action or less, all resolved with attack rolls(AOE could just be against AC 5 to hit the desired 5ft square).
Wren 03-12-08, 12:56 AM	Just joining the conversation after having read everything... @Blueatari - Your suggestion seems interesting. You'd effectively be turning the weapon into more of a single shot grenade launcher. Instead of using "Launch Bolt" it seems that if you wish to launch items other than crossbow bolts you'd want to use "Launch Item". This suggestion seems to fit the thought of launching potion-like items. It also possilby allows for a weapon that can launch alchemical items. The weapon does loose some of the flavor that the original poster was building in, but would allow "anyone" to use it fairly effectively. Having a weapon that is based off of "Launch Item" would also allow you to perhaps use the "Blood Spikes" from MoE (Magic of Eberron). This option gives you cheaper ammo for those instances when you want to perhaps aid an ally.
Wren 03-12-08, 01:07 AM	Some additional thoughts... Launch Item also gives a greater range of 110 ft. minimum instead of the 80ft. range increment listed for Launch Bolt. (Granted... you could fire at multiple increments but at a -2 penalty as per normal.) You could "upgrade" the weapon. Additional CL would grant a greater range... as well as a additional cost. Or... one could simply create a version of both that fire different projectiles. "Crossbow" or "Grenade" versions.
blueatari 03-12-08, 10:51 AM	as for the use of 'launch bolt' I meant that as a way to replicate the shardgun's ability to magically fire a physical projectile at will, a slight alteration allowing for 'launch bolt' to become effectively 'launch shard', this allows for a handgun-sized weapon to consistantly deal 1d8, 19-20/x2 damage, as per a light xbow, make the shardgun a breach-loading, single shot design, move action to reload (free with RR) as per the light xbow the original spell duplicates. You're right about 'launch object' though, maybe altering the price abit to allow for both, 3600gp would work if it could do everything 'launch object', but as I think it should only fire specially prepared, exotic types of shells, maybe make it 3000gp or so for a nice round number. I'd keep the 80ft range inc. for the standard shardshells, though for any of the spell-loaded ones I'd say should be around a 20ft or 30ft range inc., I think that would fit the flavor of those shells being like launched grenades, it might seem short, but I imagine them being harder to hit someone with directly (any AOE shells though are pretty easy to do still, as you only have to hit the AC 5 of a 5ft square). I think alchemical ones could be done nice and easy by just doubling the price or so to account for the integration of dragonshard shells for the alchemical substance, treat them as the caster shells for range increments. I'd allow thunderstones, alchemist's fire/spark/frost, acid. Maybe smokesticks or noxious smokesticks, or even sunrod shards for flares. I'd avoid tanglefoot bags though, they seem like you'd need more than what would fit in a shell (hence them being a big bag o goo), just save up for a shell with a web spell stored in it. All things considered I think its a cool item if they're super-rare, if they're actually manufactured by cannith and for sale to anyone who can pay, they need to be much much more expensive simply because of the game-breaking a party of PCs could do if everyone could launch spells around like nobody's business. I'm actually considering dropping one of these onto an NPC in a campaign for my PCs to come across, though I'm going to make it a bit more difficult to use, requiring Exotic Weapon Prof(Shardgun) to use without the -4. I'm hoping one of them show enough interest in it to do some research and maybe find a renegade cannith artificer willing to manufacture the ammunition or something (as I imagine showing up on the doorstep of a cannith house with a long lost prototype weapon involves being hit on the head and having your new toy taken away.)