Shifter Druid help plz [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shifter Druid help plz [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Angerland
05-08-07, 10:24 AM **I posted this in the optimization boards and am getting looks but no responses, I hoped here would be better**

I have a Shifter Druid that just hit 3rd level and I am looking at maxing him out. I did not take sub levels because I want wildshape, and so far my animal companion has been damn good. All the Complete/Races books are open , as well as Eberron Stuff and Core (+PHB II). I am building towards the Moonspeaker Prestige class from Races of Eberron. I need help with feats; mainly for the Shifter and the animal companion (but I may be getting the Fleshraker Dino next level)
Here is what I have now:
Araruin Gilfalas
Male Shifter(Razorclaw) Druid3, shift 2x day/ 8 rounds each
Str 13 (15 shifting)
Dex 17
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 16
Cha 10
Bab +2, AC 17 (Touch 13, FF 14) HP 22, Initiative +5
Leather Armor, Darkwood heavy shield, club, scimitar, spear....
Skills:Maxed out are Concentration, Handle Animal, Survival and Knowledge (Nature), Listen +6, Spot +4, Heal +5
Feats:
1.Shifter Instincts (+2 Init, +1 spot, listen , and sense motive)
3. Healing factor (Heal character level in hp when you stop shifting) Not sold on this one but I don't qualify for much else.
6. Will be Natural Spell of course,
9+. ???

Animal Companion
Draug
War trained riding dog wearing studded leather armor (AC 22 total)
what feat should I get the dog that has everything??
UnderworldLord
05-08-07, 02:54 PM If you're doing a razorclaw, it only makes sense to get razorclaw elite and then get the extra trait, prolly the dreamsight one. I'd have gone trait (dreamsight), dreamsight elite, and then extra trait: wildhunt. I would take the sub levels for the permanent increases you get, ie see invisible and speak with animals. Your combat won't revolve around your claws, they aren't that great even if you gimmick them. Look into getting a shifter braid or two if you really want the claws so you can enlarge your damage some.

I'd due more of a spellcaster druid though, but thats just me. I don't generally find the animal companion that useful if you get dreamsight elite/wildhunt combination. You can do all your own tracking, see invisible, and speak with animals for further help. Shifter instincts would up your initiative a little more.

You might also want to pick a sect. Don't forget about the Nightbringer Sect in FoE which gives you hide and move silently as class skills. Consider each sect carefully. Then pick out which one suits your style best.
Angerland
05-08-07, 05:07 PM I thought about a sect or two. I don't have FoE so I know nothing of the Nightbringers. I was looking at either Ashbound or Wardens of the Wood. Mechanically I like Ashbound better, though Wardens fits better, roleplay wise. I took instincts at 1st level and it's been a pretty good choice so far. Healing factor now at 3rd means one more shift per day and shifting lasts 8 rounds each time.
snakebliskan
05-14-07, 01:29 PM [QUOTE=UnderworldLord;12335517]If you're doing a razorclaw, it only makes sense to get razorclaw elite and then get the extra trait, prolly the dreamsight one. I'd have gone trait (dreamsight), dreamsight elite, and then extra trait: wildhunt. I would take the sub levels for the permanent increases you get, ie see invisible and speak with animals. Your combat won't revolve around your claws, they aren't that great even if you gimmick them. Look into getting a shifter braid or two if you really want the claws so you can enlarge your damage some.

WHAT? Claws not that great?! My shifter druid does 2D6 +15 with his claws when he starts a combat with a plus 20 to attack and hes only 9th lvl..... thats not to bad!
UnderworldLord
05-14-07, 03:07 PM Yes, but IIRC, don't you only get one attack per bab? Remember, you've got call lightning, flamestrike, ice storm, and other good druid spells to deal damage with. No need for physical attacks when you can dish it out with spells. Or if you kept summon nature's ally, you can do SNAV by that level.
crashbangboom
05-15-07, 01:29 AM I'd reccomend the Moonspeaker prestige class or weretouched master since you seem to want a druid to be a front line melee combatant.
snakebliskan
05-15-07, 02:04 PM Yes, but IIRC, don't you only get one attack per bab? Remember, you've got call lightning, flamestrike, ice storm, and other good druid spells to deal damage with. No need for physical attacks when you can dish it out with spells. Or if you kept summon nature's ally, you can do SNAV by that level.

Nope I get 2 attacks one with each hand! and thnx to my feats I only take a -2 to my off hand.... which is null if I charge thnx to my razorclaw elite feat. I get bothattacks at my highest att plus full str bonuses and the +2 from charging added to both to boot!

Now as far as casting magic your right I cant really dishout alot of spells that do mass dmg but my party needed a melee guy. We have 3 arcane casters and a cleric and a scout... so i made this guy. plus my DM has found out that casters dont like my guy he always charges them (if he can) first. Now this has become comical due to the fact i hit them more than not and I do so much dmg that they are dead or can cast there spell due to the con DC being so high... only down side with this guy is my will save is only 6 at this lvl so when I eventually fail an enchantment save I could wipe out my party..... although I get another role every round if I fail a save with the enchantment descriptor.... so im covered pretty well I think!
Angerland
05-17-07, 12:10 PM just so there is no confusion, there are two of us with shifter druids posting in this thread, we just happen to have the same avatar.

I decided against healing factor at 3rd level ecause of healing when wildshaping, I may still take it later on. I took razor claw elite instead, mainly because it will also work when wildshaping.

6th level will be Natural spell of course, but 9th level could be Great rend or Extend Spell. Maybe Improved Natural Attack or Shifter Multiattack...I just don't know yet.

Snake-what feats do you have for your shifter?
tallric_kruush
05-18-07, 06:58 PM I also have a Shifter Druid in the works, though no Shifter as my avatar.:)

A note to Angerland concerning Animal Companion. Keith Baker's "Druids of Khorvaire" Part 2 said the following about animal companions:
"It's not a question of where you are, but where you first mastered the druidic mysteries. A Valenar druid can always call a Valenar riding horse; a druid of the Demon Wastes can never call a Valenar riding horse, but at 4th level she can call a horrid rat..."
You mentioned a Fleshraker, and this came to mind. I didn't want to squash your idea, but I thought I'd point this out to you, in case you weren't aware of it. Use it as you will. Here's the link to that article:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20051024a

I'm not sure how much my build would interest you guys, since our DM allows Shifters two starting traits instead of one. That can change up your feat selection a little. All the same, I'll share.

He's a Beasthide/Longstride Shifter. I'm going to use the Wild Shifting alternate class feature in place of Wild Shape. Since it's drastically weaker (in his opinion), the DM's considering giving me a bonus Shifter Feat (rather than an additional use of shifting), any time I would have gained an additional use of Wildshape. I'm all for that, though I fear I might end up too powerful. I'll be advancing with the Moonspeaker PrC as a goal.

My feats were as follows: 1st level-Beasthide Elite; 3rd-Combat Casting. Like Snake, I'll be playing the melee role quite a bit. I'll likely invest in Improved Natural Attack around 6th level, since it counts as a Shifter Feat. Should our DM grant me bonus feats in place of shifting, I'll load up on melee enhancing Shifter Feats, and likely Extra Shifter Trait at some point (though I don't know which additional trait I'd take at this point).

That's about the extent of relevant info I could provide, since my guy's a gestalt Swordsage(unarmed variant)// Druid. I'll become a very good damage dealer once I get Improved Natural Attack and Superior Unarmed Strike working together. That could be as early as 6th level, if houserule cheese prevails.:rolleyes: :D
Pinky's brain
05-19-07, 07:52 AM 1.Shifter Instincts (+2 Init, +1 spot, listen , and sense motive)
Always a solid choice that one since it doesn't depend on actually shifting.

I wouldn't bother with any more shifter feats though ... without a lot of houserules (like tallric's) they just don't work very well unless they are the primary focus for your build, and to be the primary focus for your build they don't work well unless you are a melee monster shooting for WTM(tiger) which you are not. Shifters are pigeon holed. Feats in general are very valuable and shifter feats in general are very weak (the WTM functions as a force multiplier, making them valuable not for what they provide directly but for what they enable).

Are you going for the moonspeaker prestige class?
tallric_kruush
05-19-07, 12:48 PM ... without a lot of houserules (like tallric's) they just don't work very well... Shifters are pigeon holed. Feats in general are very valuable and shifter feats in general are very weak...

This is a very sad fact. I love the idea of Shifters, but they're tough to play without a little tinkering. Usually, we just give the extra trait at first level. The extra houseruling above sprang out of the Wild Shifting option not being on par with the regular Wild Shape ability. That disparity in itself is a result of Shifters being underpowered/too feat dependent. Having to houserule a race stinks. It's a tough line to walk, and I hate that it's necessary.:(

Sorry for getting off topic. I am curious to see which direction you guys go, since there are so many options, and with Shifters being tough to maximize (not muchkinize) for any build.
Arz
05-19-07, 03:41 PM I thought about a sect or two. I don't have FoE so I know nothing of the Nightbringers. I was looking at either Ashbound or Wardens of the Wood. Mechanically I like Ashbound better, though Wardens fits better, roleplay wise. I took instincts at 1st level and it's been a pretty good choice so far. Healing factor now at 3rd means one more shift per day and shifting lasts 8 rounds each time.

I'd avoid the sect feats both for theme and mechanics. If you read the moonspeaker druid prc you will notice it is a religious sect. Also on entering it you get better results if you stick to the feats the prc lists as counting as shifter feats. Metamagic and some others I believe.

Admittedly in the religion book and elsewhere it notes that much of the ashbound sect is made up of shifters.

Additionally; every shifter should try and qualify for extra shifter trait. It's just too much fun. Also Dreamsight Elite with its ability to see invis/ethereal is awesome.
Angerland
05-19-07, 06:44 PM I am for sure going to become a Moonspeaker, the benefits are too good to pass up. You only really lose a bit of your wildshape ability but not too terribly so and you still get 9the level spells right on time. Also the Bonus feats of Augment summoning, extra shifter trait, and Improved Natural attack will be nice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Angerland 05-08-07, 10:24 AM	I posted this in the optimization boards and am getting looks but no responses, I hoped here would be better I have a Shifter Druid that just hit 3rd level and I am looking at maxing him out. I did not take sub levels because I want wildshape, and so far my animal companion has been damn good. All the Complete/Races books are open , as well as Eberron Stuff and Core (+PHB II). I am building towards the Moonspeaker Prestige class from Races of Eberron. I need help with feats; mainly for the Shifter and the animal companion (but I may be getting the Fleshraker Dino next level) Here is what I have now: Araruin Gilfalas Male Shifter(Razorclaw) Druid3, shift 2x day/ 8 rounds each Str 13 (15 shifting) Dex 17 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 16 Cha 10 Bab +2, AC 17 (Touch 13, FF 14) HP 22, Initiative +5 Leather Armor, Darkwood heavy shield, club, scimitar, spear.... Skills:Maxed out are Concentration, Handle Animal, Survival and Knowledge (Nature), Listen +6, Spot +4, Heal +5 Feats: 1.Shifter Instincts (+2 Init, +1 spot, listen , and sense motive) 3. Healing factor (Heal character level in hp when you stop shifting) Not sold on this one but I don't qualify for much else. 6. Will be Natural Spell of course, 9+. ??? Animal Companion Draug War trained riding dog wearing studded leather armor (AC 22 total) what feat should I get the dog that has everything??
UnderworldLord 05-08-07, 02:54 PM	If you're doing a razorclaw, it only makes sense to get razorclaw elite and then get the extra trait, prolly the dreamsight one. I'd have gone trait (dreamsight), dreamsight elite, and then extra trait: wildhunt. I would take the sub levels for the permanent increases you get, ie see invisible and speak with animals. Your combat won't revolve around your claws, they aren't that great even if you gimmick them. Look into getting a shifter braid or two if you really want the claws so you can enlarge your damage some. I'd due more of a spellcaster druid though, but thats just me. I don't generally find the animal companion that useful if you get dreamsight elite/wildhunt combination. You can do all your own tracking, see invisible, and speak with animals for further help. Shifter instincts would up your initiative a little more. You might also want to pick a sect. Don't forget about the Nightbringer Sect in FoE which gives you hide and move silently as class skills. Consider each sect carefully. Then pick out which one suits your style best.
Angerland 05-08-07, 05:07 PM	I thought about a sect or two. I don't have FoE so I know nothing of the Nightbringers. I was looking at either Ashbound or Wardens of the Wood. Mechanically I like Ashbound better, though Wardens fits better, roleplay wise. I took instincts at 1st level and it's been a pretty good choice so far. Healing factor now at 3rd means one more shift per day and shifting lasts 8 rounds each time.
snakebliskan 05-14-07, 01:29 PM	[QUOTE=UnderworldLord;12335517]If you're doing a razorclaw, it only makes sense to get razorclaw elite and then get the extra trait, prolly the dreamsight one. I'd have gone trait (dreamsight), dreamsight elite, and then extra trait: wildhunt. I would take the sub levels for the permanent increases you get, ie see invisible and speak with animals. Your combat won't revolve around your claws, they aren't that great even if you gimmick them. Look into getting a shifter braid or two if you really want the claws so you can enlarge your damage some. WHAT? Claws not that great?! My shifter druid does 2D6 +15 with his claws when he starts a combat with a plus 20 to attack and hes only 9th lvl..... thats not to bad!
UnderworldLord 05-14-07, 03:07 PM	Yes, but IIRC, don't you only get one attack per bab? Remember, you've got call lightning, flamestrike, ice storm, and other good druid spells to deal damage with. No need for physical attacks when you can dish it out with spells. Or if you kept summon nature's ally, you can do SNAV by that level.
crashbangboom 05-15-07, 01:29 AM	I'd reccomend the Moonspeaker prestige class or weretouched master since you seem to want a druid to be a front line melee combatant.
snakebliskan 05-15-07, 02:04 PM	Yes, but IIRC, don't you only get one attack per bab? Remember, you've got call lightning, flamestrike, ice storm, and other good druid spells to deal damage with. No need for physical attacks when you can dish it out with spells. Or if you kept summon nature's ally, you can do SNAV by that level. Nope I get 2 attacks one with each hand! and thnx to my feats I only take a -2 to my off hand.... which is null if I charge thnx to my razorclaw elite feat. I get bothattacks at my highest att plus full str bonuses and the +2 from charging added to both to boot! Now as far as casting magic your right I cant really dishout alot of spells that do mass dmg but my party needed a melee guy. We have 3 arcane casters and a cleric and a scout... so i made this guy. plus my DM has found out that casters dont like my guy he always charges them (if he can) first. Now this has become comical due to the fact i hit them more than not and I do so much dmg that they are dead or can cast there spell due to the con DC being so high... only down side with this guy is my will save is only 6 at this lvl so when I eventually fail an enchantment save I could wipe out my party..... although I get another role every round if I fail a save with the enchantment descriptor.... so im covered pretty well I think!
Angerland 05-17-07, 12:10 PM	just so there is no confusion, there are two of us with shifter druids posting in this thread, we just happen to have the same avatar. I decided against healing factor at 3rd level ecause of healing when wildshaping, I may still take it later on. I took razor claw elite instead, mainly because it will also work when wildshaping. 6th level will be Natural spell of course, but 9th level could be Great rend or Extend Spell. Maybe Improved Natural Attack or Shifter Multiattack...I just don't know yet. Snake-what feats do you have for your shifter?
tallric_kruush 05-18-07, 06:58 PM	I also have a Shifter Druid in the works, though no Shifter as my avatar.:) A note to Angerland concerning Animal Companion. Keith Baker's "Druids of Khorvaire" Part 2 said the following about animal companions: "It's not a question of where you are, but where you first mastered the druidic mysteries. A Valenar druid can always call a Valenar riding horse; a druid of the Demon Wastes can never call a Valenar riding horse, but at 4th level she can call a horrid rat..." You mentioned a Fleshraker, and this came to mind. I didn't want to squash your idea, but I thought I'd point this out to you, in case you weren't aware of it. Use it as you will. Here's the link to that article: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20051024a I'm not sure how much my build would interest you guys, since our DM allows Shifters two starting traits instead of one. That can change up your feat selection a little. All the same, I'll share. He's a Beasthide/Longstride Shifter. I'm going to use the Wild Shifting alternate class feature in place of Wild Shape. Since it's drastically weaker (in his opinion), the DM's considering giving me a bonus Shifter Feat (rather than an additional use of shifting), any time I would have gained an additional use of Wildshape. I'm all for that, though I fear I might end up too powerful. I'll be advancing with the Moonspeaker PrC as a goal. My feats were as follows: 1st level-Beasthide Elite; 3rd-Combat Casting. Like Snake, I'll be playing the melee role quite a bit. I'll likely invest in Improved Natural Attack around 6th level, since it counts as a Shifter Feat. Should our DM grant me bonus feats in place of shifting, I'll load up on melee enhancing Shifter Feats, and likely Extra Shifter Trait at some point (though I don't know which additional trait I'd take at this point). That's about the extent of relevant info I could provide, since my guy's a gestalt Swordsage(unarmed variant)// Druid. I'll become a very good damage dealer once I get Improved Natural Attack and Superior Unarmed Strike working together. That could be as early as 6th level, if houserule cheese prevails.:rolleyes: :D
Pinky's brain 05-19-07, 07:52 AM	1.Shifter Instincts (+2 Init, +1 spot, listen , and sense motive) Always a solid choice that one since it doesn't depend on actually shifting. I wouldn't bother with any more shifter feats though ... without a lot of houserules (like tallric's) they just don't work very well unless they are the primary focus for your build, and to be the primary focus for your build they don't work well unless you are a melee monster shooting for WTM(tiger) which you are not. Shifters are pigeon holed. Feats in general are very valuable and shifter feats in general are very weak (the WTM functions as a force multiplier, making them valuable not for what they provide directly but for what they enable). Are you going for the moonspeaker prestige class?
tallric_kruush 05-19-07, 12:48 PM	... without a lot of houserules (like tallric's) they just don't work very well... Shifters are pigeon holed. Feats in general are very valuable and shifter feats in general are very weak... This is a very sad fact. I love the idea of Shifters, but they're tough to play without a little tinkering. Usually, we just give the extra trait at first level. The extra houseruling above sprang out of the Wild Shifting option not being on par with the regular Wild Shape ability. That disparity in itself is a result of Shifters being underpowered/too feat dependent. Having to houserule a race stinks. It's a tough line to walk, and I hate that it's necessary.:( Sorry for getting off topic. I am curious to see which direction you guys go, since there are so many options, and with Shifters being tough to maximize (not muchkinize) for any build.
Arz 05-19-07, 03:41 PM	I thought about a sect or two. I don't have FoE so I know nothing of the Nightbringers. I was looking at either Ashbound or Wardens of the Wood. Mechanically I like Ashbound better, though Wardens fits better, roleplay wise. I took instincts at 1st level and it's been a pretty good choice so far. Healing factor now at 3rd means one more shift per day and shifting lasts 8 rounds each time. I'd avoid the sect feats both for theme and mechanics. If you read the moonspeaker druid prc you will notice it is a religious sect. Also on entering it you get better results if you stick to the feats the prc lists as counting as shifter feats. Metamagic and some others I believe. Admittedly in the religion book and elsewhere it notes that much of the ashbound sect is made up of shifters. Additionally; every shifter should try and qualify for extra shifter trait. It's just too much fun. Also Dreamsight Elite with its ability to see invis/ethereal is awesome.
Angerland 05-19-07, 06:44 PM	I am for sure going to become a Moonspeaker, the benefits are too good to pass up. You only really lose a bit of your wildshape ability but not too terribly so and you still get 9the level spells right on time. Also the Bonus feats of Augment summoning, extra shifter trait, and Improved Natural attack will be nice.