Spell-storing shoot 'em up [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spell-storing shoot 'em up [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WolfHati
04-20-07, 10:56 PM I've been thinking about making an artificer that is more the kick-in the door and shoot-em up type for some time now, wielding a plain' ol heavy, or more likely repeating heavy, crossbow for some time now. Now, in trying to make this a viable tactic, I think that using the weapon augmentation (personal) to change a whole bunch of bolts into spell storing items and then stick all sorts of nasty spells in them would be a good idea.

Shocking grasp would put out a good deal of hurt, but I'm wondering if there's any better higher level targeted spells that could be put in the items just to cause more chaos and mayhem. There are of course status effect spells like slow and hold person, but those aren't in keeping so much with the character idea.

So... can anyone think of some spells that would cause some major damage when used like this?
Pinky's brain
04-20-07, 11:24 PM Spell-storing ammo is game breaking, also not legal by RAW.
Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires.

That said, vampiric touch is my spell storing favorite.
korcheck
04-20-07, 11:53 PM Spell-storing ammo is game breaking, also not legal by RAW.

That said, vampiric touch is my spell storing favorite.

But is it spell storing if you are infusing them before a fight?
Pinky's brain
04-21-07, 11:58 AM Korcheck, you don't seem to quite understand what infusions are. You are not infusing them with spells, your infusion gives them the spell storing special ability. After that they work exactly the same as any other spell storing weapon.

Wolfhati ... personal weapon augmentation can not enhance sets of ammunition, only the higher level weapon augmentation can do that.
korcheck
04-21-07, 12:18 PM Korcheck, you don't seem to quite understand what infusions are. You are not infusing them with spells, your infusion gives them the spell storing special ability. After that they work exactly the same as any other spell storing weapon.

Wolfhati ... personal weapon augmentation can not enhance sets of ammunition, only the higher level weapon augmentation can do that.

Very true I haven't played one yet and haven't the faintest idea how they work. I had ASSUMED (and we know where that gets you) that you just put a spell in something and then used the spell.:)
WolfHati
04-21-07, 05:27 PM Spell-storing ammo is game breaking, also not legal by RAW.

I have found nothing supporting the claim that ammunition cannot carry the spell storing enhancement. There's nothing in the entry on any special restrictions on what it can affect in my DMG or in the errata.

Also, if you miss there's a 50% chance that you've wasted the spell entirely, and you can't use it the rest of the encounter at the very least, unlike with melee weapons. So it isn't particularly game breaking.

Putting fireball in a bunch of arrows, however, would be illegal and game breaking, as fun as it would be.

Very true I haven't played one yet and haven't the faintest idea how they work. I had ASSUMED (and we know where that gets you) that you just put a spell in something and then used the spell.

I'm talking about using the Weapon augmentation (lesser apparently) infusion, not the spell storing one. Though I may well use that spell and then transfer it to the ammo before a battle.

The personal one could just enchant the crossbow... and I probably won't care too much about only getting one shot of spellpower per encounter until I get level 2 infusions anyway.
Forged_Fury
04-21-07, 05:43 PM I have found nothing supporting the claim that ammunition cannot carry the spell storing enhancement. There's nothing in the entry on any special restrictions on what it can affect in my DMG or in the errata.
I guess if you want to get all brokity-broke about it, sure. One should note that the only place where the Spell Storing property appears in the tables for Magic Weapon Special Properties is on the one for Melee Weapons. While this isn't an in-your-face restriction from allowing Spell Storing to effect ranged weapons or ammunition, it can be easily derived from its disappearance from the Ranged Weapon table.

In addition, simple balance should be considered. A number of spells of a given level are far more powerful than their compatriots simply because they are touch spells. By granting a character the ability to use touch spells at great range, you are asking for problems.

In all honesty, I don't really see what the problem is with having the artificer simply use an [elemental] burst repeating heavy crossbow and use a number of different bolts (Screaming Bolts, Sleep Bolts, etc). You can always use the infusion that allows you to change the elemental type of a given weapon if you find the effects less than satisfying.

-Forged_Fury
Pinky's brain
04-21-07, 06:14 PM I have found nothing supporting the claim that ammunition cannot carry the spell storing enhancement.
Whether they can carry it or not is immaterial if you don't wield them. For that you would need to quickdraw them and use them in melee.
The personal one could just enchant the crossbow...
It's not the crossbow which strikes your opponent, it's the bolt. Special abilities which are bestowed on ammunition by a bow are specifically called out in the DMG.
korcheck
04-21-07, 07:44 PM In addition, simple balance should be considered. A number of spells of a given level are far more powerful than their compatriots simply because they are touch spells. By granting a character the ability to use touch spells at great range, you are asking for problems.

But it's ok to have a wizard/sorcerer's familiar deliver a touched attack? As I stated above I'm not all that familiar with arti's ands to be honest I don't know much more about magic in general so a keep my characters melee based. I do know however that this can be accomplished as I have used it and it only requires the mage to be 3rd lvl and the infusion itself clear states what it can be cast on, and I quote: The weapon you touch temporarily gains a special ability commonly found on magic items. You can choose any special ability whose market price is equivalent to a +1 bonus or up to 10,000 gp, such as flaming or keen. The weapon does not have to have an existing enhancement bonus, nor does it gain one when you imbue it with this infusion. The weapon gains the benefit of the infusion only if you wield, throw, or fire it. so the simple answer to the posters question is if it doesn't fit these perameters then it's a no go otherwise do what you would like within the spells ability. He has asked for suggestions on spells so quit say what can't be done and tell him what can.
P.S. I'm sorry I can't help with suggestions for the reasons I stated above
WolfHati
04-21-07, 08:18 PM Forged Fury:

The only table that has keen on it is also the melee weapon table. Are you suggesting that the moment you make an axe or spear balanced enough to throw (throwing axe/javelin which are on the ranged weapons table) you suddenly can't make them keen?

Pinky: It is quite possible to roll arrows of speed using the DMG guidelines, which also use the phrase wields in their ability. If they weren't meant to work, then you wouldn't be able to roll them.

The point about the crossbow comes closest to being a valid ruling, but is also largely irrelevant as I'm asking about spell storing ammo.

I've been DMing long enough to rules-lawyer with the best of them.

So why don't we just change the question to what would be some good spells to store in spell storing ranged weapons, if the DM is allowing it?
Forged_Fury
04-21-07, 09:24 PM But it's ok to have a wizard/sorcerer's familiar deliver a touched attack?
Sure is, for the simple fact that your familiar is more than likely going to provoke an AoO to deliver said touch attack, which could end up with a familiar fatality. That hurts, by the way.

The only table that has keen on it is also the melee weapon table. Are you suggesting that the moment you make an axe or spear balanced enough to throw (throwing axe/javelin which are on the ranged weapons table) you suddenly can't make them keen?

That's exactly what I am saying. By the way, the regular spear already has a range increment. Here's the deal, almost all of the weapons that are melee and can be used as thrown weapons have abominable range increments. Said Spear has a ranged increment of 20' and the javelin has an increment of 30' (one of the best thrown weapon range increments in the game). That means the maximum a character can throw either is a mere 100' or 150' (with a sizable penalty). To actually hit something, you're probably already going to have to be "danger close." The heavy repeating crossbow, on the other hand, has a range increment of 120' and can technically be fired to 1200', albeit with massive penalties (that's around 4 american football fields). I would find it brokerific to use a 1st or 2nd level infusion plus a few scrolls to lob fireballs a quarter of a mile away (which you could do if you allowed this).

As to what spells to put into a spell-storing weapon, it really depends. I would focus on touch spells, as they tend to be more powerful compared to other spells of the same level. Dispel magic would be interesting.

-Forged_Fury
Pinky's brain
04-21-07, 09:30 PM Pinky: It is quite possible to roll arrows of speed using the DMG guidelines, which also use the phrase wields in their ability. If they weren't meant to work, then you wouldn't be able to roll them.
How exactly do you propose making an extra attack with an arrow?
WolfHati
04-22-07, 09:37 PM ). I would find it brokerific to use a 1st or 2nd level infusion plus a few scrolls to lob fireballs a quarter of a mile away (which you could do if you allowed this).

That is exactly why spell storing weapons only allow targeted spells and not area of effect ones.

Are there any books beyond just the core and ECS that might have good touch attack spells of 1-3 level?
Forged_Fury
04-23-07, 07:57 AM That is exactly why spell storing weapons only allow targeted spells and not area of effect ones.

Are there any books beyond just the core and ECS that might have good touch attack spells of 1-3 level?

My bad, I read the description and saw "single targeted spell" but did not translate that into Spell Effect: Target.

Anyway, Spell Compendium has a number of them. Many, however, are variants of other spells (a spell that turns Chill Touch into an Acid Attack and the like).

You know, although I still don't think this is allowed, I can see how it isn't super broken anymore. The advantage of touch spells and rays is that the AC you are trying to hit is generally a lot lower. With this, you are having to make an attack against their regular (probably higher) AC. It's still probably highly abusable, especially with something like True Strike.

-FF
Edymnion
04-30-07, 09:54 PM Very true I haven't played one yet and haven't the faintest idea how they work. I had ASSUMED (and we know where that gets you) that you just put a spell in something and then used the spell.:)There's the confusion. As already said, the Spell Storing Infusion and infusing a weapon with Spell Storing (the weapon property) are two seperate things.

The first one lets you do what you said, put the spell in an item and then use the spell. The problem with trying to put that in something like an arrow is that the spell storing infusion turns the item into effectively a 1 charge wand. To activate the stored spell, you have to be holding the item, or otherwise capable of manipulating it. Activating the item is still a standard action, which means you couldn't use it as part of an attack while firing the bow, and even if you could, you would have to activate the arrow BEFORE you fired it, which makes it useless for hitting someone at range. Although, I suppose you could store a Magic Missle spell and use shooting the bow as flavor text for firing your missles. I actually have a WF Artificer/Fighter with a bow that uses it as the focus for spell storing infusions for magic missle, melf's acid arrow, flame strike, etc. Infuse the spell into the bow, and then draw the bow and release to fire the spell off. Its good flavor for any ranged spell, really.

What you want is to use Personal Weapon Augmentation to give your weapon/ammo the Spell Storing enhancement, which is then limited to the same restrictions as a normal spell storing weapon.
Phalo
05-06-07, 01:06 PM hate to bring up the obvious but if you did have a spell storing cross bow and the enchantment is bestowed upon the ammunition then wouldn't you get only one hit before the spell is useless also if you are an artificer you could not cast most of your infusions to be store 1min is general time for an artificer infusions.

Spell Storing

A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.
Arandmoor
05-07-07, 02:52 AM Sure is, for the simple fact that your familiar is more than likely going to provoke an AoO to deliver said touch attack, which could end up with a familiar fatality. That hurts, by the way.

Except for the fact that spellcasters delivering spells by touch are considered armed and therefore do not provoke an AoO.

Dunno' why...guess it's all that magic stuff crackling on his fingertips that makes you worried about him touching you.
Forged_Fury
05-07-07, 05:54 AM Except for the fact that spellcasters delivering spells by touch are considered armed and therefore do not provoke an AoO.

Dunno' why...guess it's all that magic stuff crackling on his fingertips that makes you worried about him touching you.
I'm sorry, did I say they provoked from the touch attack? Oh right, I didn't. You must be forgetting the fact that most familiars are smaller than "Small" size and therefore have to enter an opponent's square to make the touch attack, thereby provoking an AoO.

-FF
NthDegree256
05-07-07, 11:13 AM I'm sorry, did I say they provoked from the touch attack? Oh right, I didn't. You must be forgetting the fact that most familiars are smaller than "Small" size and therefore have to enter an opponent's square to make the touch attack, thereby provoking an AoO.

-FF
Forged_Fury is absolutely right on this one... the attack itself doesn't provoke, but a Tiny creature getting close enough to attack requires it to enter the enemy's square, which does provoke an AoO regardless of whether the Tiny creature is armed.
korcheck
05-07-07, 01:03 PM Forged_Fury is absolutely right on this one... the attack itself doesn't provoke, but a Tiny creature getting close enough to attack requires it to enter the enemy's square, which does provoke an AoO regardless of whether the Tiny creature is armed.

But does he need to be a jerk about it? :weep: Or am I just overly sensitive? :D
Forged_Fury
05-07-07, 09:26 PM Sorry if I sounded like a jerk, I probably mis-read Arandmoor's emotion in his post. My apologies.

-FF
korcheck
05-08-07, 10:03 AM Sorry if I sounded like a jerk, I probably mis-read Arandmoor's emotion in his post. My apologies.

-FF

No I was kidding with you is all. :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WolfHati 04-20-07, 10:56 PM	I've been thinking about making an artificer that is more the kick-in the door and shoot-em up type for some time now, wielding a plain' ol heavy, or more likely repeating heavy, crossbow for some time now. Now, in trying to make this a viable tactic, I think that using the weapon augmentation (personal) to change a whole bunch of bolts into spell storing items and then stick all sorts of nasty spells in them would be a good idea. Shocking grasp would put out a good deal of hurt, but I'm wondering if there's any better higher level targeted spells that could be put in the items just to cause more chaos and mayhem. There are of course status effect spells like slow and hold person, but those aren't in keeping so much with the character idea. So... can anyone think of some spells that would cause some major damage when used like this?
Pinky's brain 04-20-07, 11:24 PM	Spell-storing ammo is game breaking, also not legal by RAW. Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. That said, vampiric touch is my spell storing favorite.
korcheck 04-20-07, 11:53 PM	Spell-storing ammo is game breaking, also not legal by RAW. That said, vampiric touch is my spell storing favorite. But is it spell storing if you are infusing them before a fight?
Pinky's brain 04-21-07, 11:58 AM	Korcheck, you don't seem to quite understand what infusions are. You are not infusing them with spells, your infusion gives them the spell storing special ability. After that they work exactly the same as any other spell storing weapon. Wolfhati ... personal weapon augmentation can not enhance sets of ammunition, only the higher level weapon augmentation can do that.
korcheck 04-21-07, 12:18 PM	Korcheck, you don't seem to quite understand what infusions are. You are not infusing them with spells, your infusion gives them the spell storing special ability. After that they work exactly the same as any other spell storing weapon. Wolfhati ... personal weapon augmentation can not enhance sets of ammunition, only the higher level weapon augmentation can do that. Very true I haven't played one yet and haven't the faintest idea how they work. I had ASSUMED (and we know where that gets you) that you just put a spell in something and then used the spell.:)
WolfHati 04-21-07, 05:27 PM	Spell-storing ammo is game breaking, also not legal by RAW. I have found nothing supporting the claim that ammunition cannot carry the spell storing enhancement. There's nothing in the entry on any special restrictions on what it can affect in my DMG or in the errata. Also, if you miss there's a 50% chance that you've wasted the spell entirely, and you can't use it the rest of the encounter at the very least, unlike with melee weapons. So it isn't particularly game breaking. Putting fireball in a bunch of arrows, however, would be illegal and game breaking, as fun as it would be. Very true I haven't played one yet and haven't the faintest idea how they work. I had ASSUMED (and we know where that gets you) that you just put a spell in something and then used the spell. I'm talking about using the Weapon augmentation (lesser apparently) infusion, not the spell storing one. Though I may well use that spell and then transfer it to the ammo before a battle. The personal one could just enchant the crossbow... and I probably won't care too much about only getting one shot of spellpower per encounter until I get level 2 infusions anyway.
Forged_Fury 04-21-07, 05:43 PM	I have found nothing supporting the claim that ammunition cannot carry the spell storing enhancement. There's nothing in the entry on any special restrictions on what it can affect in my DMG or in the errata. I guess if you want to get all brokity-broke about it, sure. One should note that the only place where the Spell Storing property appears in the tables for Magic Weapon Special Properties is on the one for Melee Weapons. While this isn't an in-your-face restriction from allowing Spell Storing to effect ranged weapons or ammunition, it can be easily derived from its disappearance from the Ranged Weapon table. In addition, simple balance should be considered. A number of spells of a given level are far more powerful than their compatriots simply because they are touch spells. By granting a character the ability to use touch spells at great range, you are asking for problems. In all honesty, I don't really see what the problem is with having the artificer simply use an [elemental] burst repeating heavy crossbow and use a number of different bolts (Screaming Bolts, Sleep Bolts, etc). You can always use the infusion that allows you to change the elemental type of a given weapon if you find the effects less than satisfying. -Forged_Fury
Pinky's brain 04-21-07, 06:14 PM	I have found nothing supporting the claim that ammunition cannot carry the spell storing enhancement. Whether they can carry it or not is immaterial if you don't wield them. For that you would need to quickdraw them and use them in melee. The personal one could just enchant the crossbow... It's not the crossbow which strikes your opponent, it's the bolt. Special abilities which are bestowed on ammunition by a bow are specifically called out in the DMG.
korcheck 04-21-07, 07:44 PM	In addition, simple balance should be considered. A number of spells of a given level are far more powerful than their compatriots simply because they are touch spells. By granting a character the ability to use touch spells at great range, you are asking for problems. But it's ok to have a wizard/sorcerer's familiar deliver a touched attack? As I stated above I'm not all that familiar with arti's ands to be honest I don't know much more about magic in general so a keep my characters melee based. I do know however that this can be accomplished as I have used it and it only requires the mage to be 3rd lvl and the infusion itself clear states what it can be cast on, and I quote: The weapon you touch temporarily gains a special ability commonly found on magic items. You can choose any special ability whose market price is equivalent to a +1 bonus or up to 10,000 gp, such as flaming or keen. The weapon does not have to have an existing enhancement bonus, nor does it gain one when you imbue it with this infusion. The weapon gains the benefit of the infusion only if you wield, throw, or fire it. so the simple answer to the posters question is if it doesn't fit these perameters then it's a no go otherwise do what you would like within the spells ability. He has asked for suggestions on spells so quit say what can't be done and tell him what can. P.S. I'm sorry I can't help with suggestions for the reasons I stated above
WolfHati 04-21-07, 08:18 PM	Forged Fury: The only table that has keen on it is also the melee weapon table. Are you suggesting that the moment you make an axe or spear balanced enough to throw (throwing axe/javelin which are on the ranged weapons table) you suddenly can't make them keen? Pinky: It is quite possible to roll arrows of speed using the DMG guidelines, which also use the phrase wields in their ability. If they weren't meant to work, then you wouldn't be able to roll them. The point about the crossbow comes closest to being a valid ruling, but is also largely irrelevant as I'm asking about spell storing ammo. I've been DMing long enough to rules-lawyer with the best of them. So why don't we just change the question to what would be some good spells to store in spell storing ranged weapons, if the DM is allowing it?
Forged_Fury 04-21-07, 09:24 PM	But it's ok to have a wizard/sorcerer's familiar deliver a touched attack? Sure is, for the simple fact that your familiar is more than likely going to provoke an AoO to deliver said touch attack, which could end up with a familiar fatality. That hurts, by the way. The only table that has keen on it is also the melee weapon table. Are you suggesting that the moment you make an axe or spear balanced enough to throw (throwing axe/javelin which are on the ranged weapons table) you suddenly can't make them keen? That's exactly what I am saying. By the way, the regular spear already has a range increment. Here's the deal, almost all of the weapons that are melee and can be used as thrown weapons have abominable range increments. Said Spear has a ranged increment of 20' and the javelin has an increment of 30' (one of the best thrown weapon range increments in the game). That means the maximum a character can throw either is a mere 100' or 150' (with a sizable penalty). To actually hit something, you're probably already going to have to be "danger close." The heavy repeating crossbow, on the other hand, has a range increment of 120' and can technically be fired to 1200', albeit with massive penalties (that's around 4 american football fields). I would find it brokerific to use a 1st or 2nd level infusion plus a few scrolls to lob fireballs a quarter of a mile away (which you could do if you allowed this). As to what spells to put into a spell-storing weapon, it really depends. I would focus on touch spells, as they tend to be more powerful compared to other spells of the same level. Dispel magic would be interesting. -Forged_Fury
Pinky's brain 04-21-07, 09:30 PM	Pinky: It is quite possible to roll arrows of speed using the DMG guidelines, which also use the phrase wields in their ability. If they weren't meant to work, then you wouldn't be able to roll them. How exactly do you propose making an extra attack with an arrow?
WolfHati 04-22-07, 09:37 PM	). I would find it brokerific to use a 1st or 2nd level infusion plus a few scrolls to lob fireballs a quarter of a mile away (which you could do if you allowed this). That is exactly why spell storing weapons only allow targeted spells and not area of effect ones. Are there any books beyond just the core and ECS that might have good touch attack spells of 1-3 level?
Forged_Fury 04-23-07, 07:57 AM	That is exactly why spell storing weapons only allow targeted spells and not area of effect ones. Are there any books beyond just the core and ECS that might have good touch attack spells of 1-3 level? My bad, I read the description and saw "single targeted spell" but did not translate that into Spell Effect: Target. Anyway, Spell Compendium has a number of them. Many, however, are variants of other spells (a spell that turns Chill Touch into an Acid Attack and the like). You know, although I still don't think this is allowed, I can see how it isn't super broken anymore. The advantage of touch spells and rays is that the AC you are trying to hit is generally a lot lower. With this, you are having to make an attack against their regular (probably higher) AC. It's still probably highly abusable, especially with something like True Strike. -FF
Edymnion 04-30-07, 09:54 PM	Very true I haven't played one yet and haven't the faintest idea how they work. I had ASSUMED (and we know where that gets you) that you just put a spell in something and then used the spell.:)There's the confusion. As already said, the Spell Storing Infusion and infusing a weapon with Spell Storing (the weapon property) are two seperate things. The first one lets you do what you said, put the spell in an item and then use the spell. The problem with trying to put that in something like an arrow is that the spell storing infusion turns the item into effectively a 1 charge wand. To activate the stored spell, you have to be holding the item, or otherwise capable of manipulating it. Activating the item is still a standard action, which means you couldn't use it as part of an attack while firing the bow, and even if you could, you would have to activate the arrow BEFORE you fired it, which makes it useless for hitting someone at range. Although, I suppose you could store a Magic Missle spell and use shooting the bow as flavor text for firing your missles. I actually have a WF Artificer/Fighter with a bow that uses it as the focus for spell storing infusions for magic missle, melf's acid arrow, flame strike, etc. Infuse the spell into the bow, and then draw the bow and release to fire the spell off. Its good flavor for any ranged spell, really. What you want is to use Personal Weapon Augmentation to give your weapon/ammo the Spell Storing enhancement, which is then limited to the same restrictions as a normal spell storing weapon.
Phalo 05-06-07, 01:06 PM	hate to bring up the obvious but if you did have a spell storing cross bow and the enchantment is bestowed upon the ammunition then wouldn't you get only one hit before the spell is useless also if you are an artificer you could not cast most of your infusions to be store 1min is general time for an artificer infusions. Spell Storing A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.
Arandmoor 05-07-07, 02:52 AM	Sure is, for the simple fact that your familiar is more than likely going to provoke an AoO to deliver said touch attack, which could end up with a familiar fatality. That hurts, by the way. Except for the fact that spellcasters delivering spells by touch are considered armed and therefore do not provoke an AoO. Dunno' why...guess it's all that magic stuff crackling on his fingertips that makes you worried about him touching you.
Forged_Fury 05-07-07, 05:54 AM	Except for the fact that spellcasters delivering spells by touch are considered armed and therefore do not provoke an AoO. Dunno' why...guess it's all that magic stuff crackling on his fingertips that makes you worried about him touching you. I'm sorry, did I say they provoked from the touch attack? Oh right, I didn't. You must be forgetting the fact that most familiars are smaller than "Small" size and therefore have to enter an opponent's square to make the touch attack, thereby provoking an AoO. -FF
NthDegree256 05-07-07, 11:13 AM	I'm sorry, did I say they provoked from the touch attack? Oh right, I didn't. You must be forgetting the fact that most familiars are smaller than "Small" size and therefore have to enter an opponent's square to make the touch attack, thereby provoking an AoO. -FF Forged_Fury is absolutely right on this one... the attack itself doesn't provoke, but a Tiny creature getting close enough to attack requires it to enter the enemy's square, which does provoke an AoO regardless of whether the Tiny creature is armed.
korcheck 05-07-07, 01:03 PM	Forged_Fury is absolutely right on this one... the attack itself doesn't provoke, but a Tiny creature getting close enough to attack requires it to enter the enemy's square, which does provoke an AoO regardless of whether the Tiny creature is armed. But does he need to be a jerk about it? :weep: Or am I just overly sensitive? :D
Forged_Fury 05-07-07, 09:26 PM	Sorry if I sounded like a jerk, I probably mis-read Arandmoor's emotion in his post. My apologies. -FF
korcheck 05-08-07, 10:03 AM	Sorry if I sounded like a jerk, I probably mis-read Arandmoor's emotion in his post. My apologies. -FF No I was kidding with you is all. :D