Stacking Improved Turning and Flametouched Iron Holy Symbol? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Stacking Improved Turning and Flametouched Iron Holy Symbol? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JulesCARV
05-11-07, 03:53 PM Are Flametouched Iron Holy Symbols and Improved Turning stackable?

It appears to me that they are not, since they both allow you to turn undead as if you were one level higher than your actual class, but I'm not sure.

It would be nice if they were for a sort of ultimate sun 'n' glory undead destroyer, and at any rate, a 500 750 gp item replacing a feat seems tough.
DarkWarriorKarg
05-11-07, 04:14 PM Untyped bonuses stack...

Besides, it's only a +1
Cifer
05-11-07, 05:56 PM Anything that allows Turn Undead to be useful for something beside powering [Divine] feats after a few levels when the Hit Dice of Undead start to rocket up sounds good to me.
UnderworldLord
05-12-07, 12:35 AM agreed Cifer. Turning attempts tend to become divine metacheese batteries after a while. Something that makes them more useful later on in levels seems like a nice change of pace.
JulesCARV
05-12-07, 01:18 AM I hope that you guys are right, and that improved turning and flametouched iron holy symbols stack. It still seems to me that they don't, though. Am I misreading something?

They don't increase your effective cleric level for turning by one. Rather, they both allow you to turn undead as if you were one level than you actually are in whatever class gives turning. This ability seems, to me, to overlap, not stack. Am I missing something?

IMPROVED TURNING [GENERAL]
Your turning or rebuking attempts are more powerful than normal
Prerequisite: Ability to turn or rebuke creatures.
Benefit: You turn or rebuke creatures as if you were one level higher than you are in the class that grants you the ability.

A flametouched iron holy symbol allows a character who can turn undead or censure fiends to do so as if his class level were one higher than it actually is.
Cifer
05-12-07, 08:03 PM Am I missing something?
The fact that I and UndworldLord didn't say that they stack, but that it's not a great problem balance-wise to make them stack.
JulesCARV
05-13-07, 01:51 AM Ah, okay then.
DarkWarriorKarg
05-16-07, 10:20 AM Besides, you can take improved turning more than once.
Cifer
05-16-07, 12:56 PM Besides, you can take improved turning more than once.
Says who?
DarkWarriorKarg
05-16-07, 01:19 PM Says who?

having checked the SRD, I must apologize, I was probably thinking about something else.

No wonder why I classified the feat as "subpar". It's not much better than a +2/+2 feat or a skill focus.
WolfHati
05-17-07, 01:27 AM I can see it as being read either way.

And you might as well let them stack, kinda stupid not to.

It doesn't mean you even have to let monkey grip and powerful build stack, as those only let you use weapons one size category larger than yourself so they'd be redundant, not wield weapons as if one size category larger, or in this case one level higher. Obviously if you're a level 1 cleric with improved turning, and you are turning as if one level higher in addition to that, you're turning as if a level 2 cleric with improved turning, or a level 3 cleric.
Grumgarr
05-17-07, 06:11 AM Though RAW it looks like they don't stack, I'm with the others who say 'hell yeah, let 'em stack'.

It's one HD more of undead you'll successfully turn on any given attempt (both for turning attempts and turning damage). And yes, turn undead has become a non-undead-related expendable resource with the various divine feats, so anything that allows the basic ability to not just be a wasted action is fine by me. Flame on!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JulesCARV 05-11-07, 03:53 PM	Are Flametouched Iron Holy Symbols and Improved Turning stackable? It appears to me that they are not, since they both allow you to turn undead as if you were one level higher than your actual class, but I'm not sure. It would be nice if they were for a sort of ultimate sun 'n' glory undead destroyer, and at any rate, a 500 750 gp item replacing a feat seems tough.
DarkWarriorKarg 05-11-07, 04:14 PM	Untyped bonuses stack... Besides, it's only a +1
Cifer 05-11-07, 05:56 PM	Anything that allows Turn Undead to be useful for something beside powering [Divine] feats after a few levels when the Hit Dice of Undead start to rocket up sounds good to me.
UnderworldLord 05-12-07, 12:35 AM	agreed Cifer. Turning attempts tend to become divine metacheese batteries after a while. Something that makes them more useful later on in levels seems like a nice change of pace.
JulesCARV 05-12-07, 01:18 AM	I hope that you guys are right, and that improved turning and flametouched iron holy symbols stack. It still seems to me that they don't, though. Am I misreading something? They don't increase your effective cleric level for turning by one. Rather, they both allow you to turn undead as if you were one level than you actually are in whatever class gives turning. This ability seems, to me, to overlap, not stack. Am I missing something? IMPROVED TURNING [GENERAL] Your turning or rebuking attempts are more powerful than normal Prerequisite: Ability to turn or rebuke creatures. Benefit: You turn or rebuke creatures as if you were one level higher than you are in the class that grants you the ability. A flametouched iron holy symbol allows a character who can turn undead or censure fiends to do so as if his class level were one higher than it actually is.
Cifer 05-12-07, 08:03 PM	Am I missing something? The fact that I and UndworldLord didn't say that they stack, but that it's not a great problem balance-wise to make them stack.
JulesCARV 05-13-07, 01:51 AM	Ah, okay then.
DarkWarriorKarg 05-16-07, 10:20 AM	Besides, you can take improved turning more than once.
Cifer 05-16-07, 12:56 PM	Besides, you can take improved turning more than once. Says who?
DarkWarriorKarg 05-16-07, 01:19 PM	Says who? having checked the SRD, I must apologize, I was probably thinking about something else. No wonder why I classified the feat as "subpar". It's not much better than a +2/+2 feat or a skill focus.
WolfHati 05-17-07, 01:27 AM	I can see it as being read either way. And you might as well let them stack, kinda stupid not to. It doesn't mean you even have to let monkey grip and powerful build stack, as those only let you use weapons one size category larger than yourself so they'd be redundant, not wield weapons as if one size category larger, or in this case one level higher. Obviously if you're a level 1 cleric with improved turning, and you are turning as if one level higher in addition to that, you're turning as if a level 2 cleric with improved turning, or a level 3 cleric.
Grumgarr 05-17-07, 06:11 AM	Though RAW it looks like they don't stack, I'm with the others who say 'hell yeah, let 'em stack'. It's one HD more of undead you'll successfully turn on any given attempt (both for turning attempts and turning damage). And yes, turn undead has become a non-undead-related expendable resource with the various divine feats, so anything that allows the basic ability to not just be a wasted action is fine by me. Flame on!