Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Silverblade The Enchanter 05-16-07, 11:29 PM	1) Gunpowder would be suicidal in magical milleus where fire spells are so prevalent, ie, most of D&D ;) Fireball etc would cause a lot of folk's ammo to blow up, and gunpowder depots etc would be stuly suicidal! 2) Other worlds would have greatly differing outlooks on the application of science and magic to weaponry. Elves for example are NOT Humans, they and other races would not be forced ot think in Human design terms, which means you'd have weird and lateral thinking and creation. Thus, the TELEK ------------------ TELEK ------------------ A Telek is weapon that resmebles a hand crossbow, but without a bow and having a thick, chunky barrel. To 21st century Terrans, it would look like a pistol, though with a thicker barrel, a rather wide magazine, and the trigger, is actually a ring, set in a conventional guard. -The barrel itself usually has long, green crystal inserts, and made of various metals, depending on cultures, but always inscribed with runes. Gnomes and advanced techno-magical Human cultures, like in Eberron, have taken to these deadly items, though they are extremely costly. Telek: Tiny, Simple Weapon -- Ranged Cost: 600gp+ (*) Damage: 1d6+2 Critical: 19-20/x2 Range Increment: 30 feet Weight 3lbs Type: Piercing and Bludgeoning Bolts (6) cost 6gp, or (**) There are two types of Telek: Imbued and Mechanical. IMBUED TELEK: Like a repeating crossbow, an imbued telek allows it's user to fire at their full attack, until needing reloading. Reloading is a full round action that provokes attacks of oppoortunity. -The motile force for an imbued telek comes from a Ring of Telekinesis, which must be built into the weapon, which requires someone with the Craft Magic Arms and Armour Feat, plus the ring and it's cost, meaning the weapon is extremely expensive. Normally, such rings only have a limited number of uses per day, but the Telek design allows it to be used at will, though practically, such rings only allow 120 shots per day before needing a day of rest to rebuild their latent energies. -To cheapen the cost, some crafters have been making specially charged Rings of Telekinesis, such devices hold up to 50charges, and are designed so that they can be recharged by merely casting Telekinsis on the ring (1 spell = 5 charges), cost is 1/2 that of a normal ring of Telekinesis. -There are psionic verisons as well, which have shown to be cheaper than magical versions, using the Telekinetic Thrust power, cost is 1/2 that of magical versions, using technology created by the githzerai. MECHANICAL TELEK -This version is exactly the same in all respects, except the user must manually * *** the weapon by means of a large sliding bolt or lever, which compresses a powerful spring made from the peculiar material found in gambado feet. -Mechanical Teleks only allow 1 shot per round, as reloading is a move action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Feats that increase loading times, such as Rapid Reload, work for Teleks as well, they can be considered hand crossbows for feats. -It requires a Strength of 12 to * *** a Mechanical Telek. -They can be left loaded and ready to fire almost indefinately though, unlike normal crossbows who's bow limbs slowly weaken. ALL TELEKS: -The magazine holds 6 bolts, replacing or reloading a magazine is a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Larger magazines are possible but the weight of the bolts makes such prone to innacuracy (-1 hit for each bolt of capacity over 6). -The weapon fires inch and a half long bolts of copper or bronze, 1/2 inch in diameter. The powers of the Telekinetic effect, or spring, are channeled into pushing it and hurl the projectiles with great force. -It is possible to make a special bolt, hollowed out, holding vials, capable of containing poison and other materials, such bolts only do 1d6 damage as they lack the mass of the solid ones. Using explosive materials is not wise, although the Imbued weapon has no recoil at all, due to it's magical nature, the bolt still suffers extremely brutal acceleration on firing, be warned! -Other variants have bolts made from silver, or tipped with silver, adamantine or other exotic materials. These do full damage (1d6+2). -Usually, a telek comes in a special case, with a mould for making bolts, (**) so the user can make them in his spare time if so wished, otherwise a fletcher or metalmsith can make them typiclaly for 1 gp each, or less. It only requires the cost of the metal and time to handcraft them, with a DC 5 check using any metalworking, fletching or related skill, or untrained using Int vs DC 10, with a +5 DC penalty if you don't have the mould. Unlike real life bullets, telek bolts don't have to be very precise in size. -Extra Magazines cost 50 gp each. -Teleks fire almost totally silently. Teleks and their ammunition can be enchanted as per any other magical ranged weapon. The one problem Imbued Teleks do face, is that since they rely on magic entirely, in Anti-Magic fields, or places where their Telekinetic ring's powers maybe affected, they can prove useless. :)
Grumgarr 05-17-07, 06:41 AM	Nice one. That's the way to work a gun in, if you feel the need. They are very expensive for a projectile weapon, which is fine by me. Since no basic weapon is designed to do dX + Y damage (they all just use one or more dice - bonuses come from magic or other sources) I'd prefer a simple d8 for damage, making them a short-range, smaller, light crossbow with iterative attacks built right in (or a damage-boosted hand crossbow with iterative attacks, if you prefer). Vials (of acid or whatever) are usually much larger than the ammo for this weapon, so I wouldn't allow them as projectiles myself. Having said all that, the TK ring is one of the most expensive in the DMG (far more expensive than the weapon itself), so how about an alternative using a low-level spell instead? There's a zero-level or first level spell/psionic power (somewhere) called something like Launch Bolt that hurls a small object (up to 1lb or so I think) up to medium range. For example, it can be used to fire a crossbow bolt without a crossbow (which seems pretty much designed for adaptation to this weapon). In summary then, the benefit of this weapon (other than being small/concealable and light) is that it allows more attacks per round (to those with iterative attacks - pretty rare in the general populace) without requiring a feat. It seems like a good 'elite Inspired enforcer' (psi version) or 'Trust operative' (magic) weapon, but not the kind of thing the average soldier would benefit from, or indeed be able to afford. Since bows allow multiple attacks per round to many classes already, I don't see a jazzy crossbow-gun as being particularly over-powered. Actually, I think it fits the setting's elite quite well.
Silverblade The Enchanter 05-17-07, 07:50 AM	Well, I don't like the way crossbows and seige wepaons are handled in game, hence the 1d6+2 damage ;) I think they should add a strength bonus because really, all they are are bows that avoid "the archer's paradox" and us emechanical advantage to equal high strength bows. (I'veused both bows and crossbows in RL) You could up the damage to 1d8+2, the added damage from the sheer force propelling it, and to signify it's lethality. You're right on the price hence I suggested a cheaper version of a Ring of Telekinesis, think, since it's not a permanent ring effect, it should be made with Craft Wondrous Item, not Fore Ring. Avoiding firearms in D&D I think, is essential, and this allows a logical fun mehtod :)
Dragom 05-17-07, 11:35 PM	When Confronted by a player with a gun request I default to the following, Gust of wind Ogre's thigh bone craft wonderous item And yes it's a fancy mystical blow gun.
Silverblade The Enchanter 05-18-07, 12:11 AM	When Confronted by a player with a gun request I default to the following, Gust of wind Ogre's thigh bone craft wonderous item And yes it's a fancy mystical blow gun. I tend to do something far more prosaic and crude to them ;)
Ront Iron-Roar 05-23-07, 08:29 AM	I tend to do something far more prosaic and crude to them ;) How about some sticks and a rock? Make them share the rock.
Meikle_641 06-01-07, 06:03 PM	Wellll, there's an easier way you can do this, I think. In the Spell Compendium there's a wondrous little gem of a cantrip called "Launch Bolt", or even "Launch Item. Basically, it allows you to fire a bolt (or item for the latter) at a similar range increment to a crossbow. Seems that'd be more applicable to this weapon. Oh, it's also a cantrip, which means that with the precedent of Hand of the Mage, you can simply have the item cost 900 GP so it can fire as many times you want per day. It'd seem to be a simpler (and cheaper) way than the Ring of Telekinesis or whatever.
Silverblade The Enchanter 06-01-07, 10:26 PM	ah, good point Meikle 641! :)
BlackFiend 07-19-07, 04:27 PM	In the Horse Lord series by Peter Morwood, the hero has just such a weapon. Its called a Telek. (Its good to actually state WHERE a concept came from and give the author his credit. It also helps for searching later.) It was, in essence, a masterwork spring loaded dart gun that shot "Telek darts". These could be tipped with poison, but that was considered "ignoble". The concept was to score crits. You had to aim for vitals to take folks down. I would call it exotic. It had low damage, but high crit and crit range due to the high velocity. It was masterwork and finely crafted, and allowed 3 darts per telek in a revolving chamber of some structure. Dmg: d4+1 Crit: 17-20/x3 Range: 10' (YES, a very short range weapon.) +1 to hit from masterwork and craftsmanship. Move action to reload an empty Telek, but like a repeating cross bow otherwise. Cost would be very high. Double that of a repeating crossbow. The hero in the story (Aldric) used the Telek mostly as a two weapon fighter. Telek in one hand, widowmaker (a longsword), in the other. He'd fire a shot, close for combat with the long sword. If he slayed his opponent, then he'd turn and fire it at the next opponent. The weapon was exquisitely made of fine oak and masterful materials. The "bolts" as mentioned earlier, could be poisoned, or even made from exotic materials like silver for dealing with werebeasts. Its completely mechanical so it can work in a AMF zone. The weapon was pistol size.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-19-07, 05:19 PM	Now see, my way of making guns was to replace the gun powder charge. There's a small (maybe one inch) chamber at the back of the barrel. You put the wadding and bullet down the barrel like a standard muzzle loader, but without any gunpowder. The weapon is enchanted with either a fire spell, or a sonic spell, or something similar. When triggered, the heat or sonic effect causes the air in the expansion chamber in the back of the barrel to expand rapidly, propelling the bullet out, just like burning gunpowder. The benefit is two fold. One, you don't have to worry about keeping gun powder dry or protected from flame. Two, since you don't have to carefully pour powder in, it's fairly logical to reduce the reload time from full round to a move action. The drawback is, of coarse, that the weapon costs a minimum of 2300 gp, since it has to be both masterwork and magical.
Silverblade The Enchanter 07-19-07, 09:46 PM	BlackFiend ah! that's where I got name from :) loved those books, wish author had written more :/ A magic verison would be cool, if could figure some reasonable way of recharging it
BlackFiend 07-20-07, 09:20 AM	BlackFiend ah! that's where I got name from :) loved those books, wish author had written more :/ A magic verison would be cool, if could figure some reasonable way of recharging it Alas, dear Silverblade...the dear author is David Morwood. He is slated to add two more texts to the series. Shadowlord being the next. The others were Horse Lord, Demon Lord, Dragon Lord, and a Warlords Dominion. The next is Shadow Lord. Not sure how it will go, since he hasn't worked on it until this year! Ack! Suprisingly little net content on his books and ideas in terms of D&D, but it makes for good D&D material and sourceworld. My post is basically a repost from several years back. If you wish to hone it, I'd love to. But the sweet joy of the item was that it was mechanical and non-gnomish in style. As for it being a pseudo-firearm, I disagree. The tastiness of it was that it was a nobles weapon, and a close range item. Perhaps one would feel the need to use magic to create the tense string, but I don't think its needed. Its not a real firearm...its a spring gun. A whole different class and function. Its closer to being a mini-spear gun, if you will or hand crossbow.
BlackFiend 07-20-07, 09:22 AM	Now see, my way of making guns was to replace the gun powder charge. There's a small (maybe one inch) chamber at the back of the barrel. You put the wadding and bullet down the barrel like a standard muzzle loader, but without any gunpowder. The weapon is enchanted with either a fire spell, or a sonic spell, or something similar. When triggered, the heat or sonic effect causes the air in the expansion chamber in the back of the barrel to expand rapidly, propelling the bullet out, just like burning gunpowder. The benefit is two fold. One, you don't have to worry about keeping gun powder dry or protected from flame. Two, since you don't have to carefully pour powder in, it's fairly logical to reduce the reload time from full round to a move action. The drawback is, of coarse, that the weapon costs a minimum of 2300 gp, since it has to be both masterwork and magical. There is a spell called "launch missile", I think in the Spell Compendium. Its useful enough to make a curio wonderous item using it for the mechanics, and craft magic weapons for its purpose and strength. I'd hate to see such a thing, though. Cheesy. Its sword and sorcery, not guns of navarone.