Urban Encounters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Urban Encounters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
garner_adam
06-04-07, 02:30 PM Many Eberron campaigns have urban combats and encounters. Often times this means that class leveled humanoids are the primary opponents. What I find hard to believe is the challenge ratings on some of these encounters. A gang of eight 1st level first level fighters/rogues is equal to challenge rating 7.

Eight 1st level fighters/rogues = cr7
Four 3rd level fighters/rogues = cr7
Two 5th level fighters/rogues = cr7 (much more believable than the above two examples)
One Eight Headed Hyrda!? = cr7

Any advice on the actual challenge rating of a group of humanoids?
Need_A_Life
06-08-07, 02:06 PM Use the Mob template from DMG2...

A Mob of Humans are CR 8...

Also, I never quite believed the CR for hydra's... never seen a group who could survive w/o at least one death due to 5-24(!!!) attacks/round + move action :eek:
UnderworldLord
06-08-07, 03:17 PM Then you haven't played with any of the players I play with. We aren't powergamers, nor munchkins. We just play it really smart by limiting the Hydra's actions. You just have to get... outside of the box a bit.
Melvin the Mediocre
06-08-07, 03:56 PM Then you haven't played with any of the players I play with. We aren't powergamers, nor munchkins. We just play it really smart by limiting the Hydra's actions. You just have to get... outside of the box a bit.

Oh see, you're lucky. Most of us don't encounter hydras that are already boxed up. :rofl:

Okay, I'm sorry for saying that. I'll go stand in the corner.
InkBlot
06-08-07, 04:17 PM Four 3rd level fighters/rogues = cr7
I can believe that. The rogues just have to play it smart. Start it off with 3 rogues hiding in the shadows, and one rogue who jumps out in front of the PCs with "your money or your life." Since the one rogue surprised them, he'll get the surprise round with which to ready an action to huck a dagger into the first person to disagree. Since the PCs will most likely answer immediately, before acting, they'll be flatfooted (sneak-attackable).

Give all the rogues precise shot and point blank shot, and at least a 12 in Str. The rest of the rogues will help the front man take down the first person who disagrees, so in the first round one PC will be taking about 44 damage (2d6+1d4+2 from each rogue). This could send a 7th level wizard into negative HP, or eat about 2/3 or 1/2 of a 7th level fighter's HP.

Now the PCs go. The front man is toast. The rogues hiding in the darkness each have about a 50/50 shot of being toast, I'd say.

As the surviving rogues take their actions, they'll each make a parting shot on the weakest looking PC or the nearest PC, then run away to disappear into the shadows.

The party has lost a little less than 1/4 of their resources, in HP and whatever expendables (if any, maybe a spell or two) they used to take down the rogues. If any rogues survived, the PCs may end up spending even more resources on a chasing him or her through the city.
Captain_Kobold
06-17-07, 05:19 PM Also bear in mind that in the confines of a city, with its alleyways and buildings, larger groups of low-CR creatures can be more effective: The party can't use many of its area-effect spells, and it is a lot easier for the group to get in amongst the party to separate them and set up flanking etc before the party can mount a solid defence.

Once the party have killed a few, its going to drain much more of the party's resources to hunt down the survivors as they scatter through the streets as well.
Kerd
06-17-07, 09:16 PM Also, don't forget the possible problem with the local Guard. Depending of the Town, the guard is not composed only of low level Warriors and Commoners.

Abjurer and Enchanter wizards, high level Fighters, Paladins, Clerics (Silverflame is highly recommended) and Artificers could be allies or opponents of the player's characters and can add more interesting situations envolving the PC's avoiding being arrested (imagine the "police pursuit" in police films to get the point I'm telling here).

:)
Rechan
06-17-07, 09:28 PM Also, in places like Sharn, you can always have Urban monsters involved too. Dasask Gnolls. Minotaur and ogre work in the Cogs. Thuraskh has been bringing monsters from Droaam do to specialty work - harpies make great crowd control or guards that can non-lethally subdue an intruder.

Not to mention more interesting things, like aberrations.

And remember that the enemy can summon monsters to help them out. Summoned monsters don't count in the situation's ECL.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
garner_adam 06-04-07, 02:30 PM	Many Eberron campaigns have urban combats and encounters. Often times this means that class leveled humanoids are the primary opponents. What I find hard to believe is the challenge ratings on some of these encounters. A gang of eight 1st level first level fighters/rogues is equal to challenge rating 7. Eight 1st level fighters/rogues = cr7 Four 3rd level fighters/rogues = cr7 Two 5th level fighters/rogues = cr7 (much more believable than the above two examples) One Eight Headed Hyrda!? = cr7 Any advice on the actual challenge rating of a group of humanoids?
Need_A_Life 06-08-07, 02:06 PM	Use the Mob template from DMG2... A Mob of Humans are CR 8... Also, I never quite believed the CR for hydra's... never seen a group who could survive w/o at least one death due to 5-24(!!!) attacks/round + move action :eek:
UnderworldLord 06-08-07, 03:17 PM	Then you haven't played with any of the players I play with. We aren't powergamers, nor munchkins. We just play it really smart by limiting the Hydra's actions. You just have to get... outside of the box a bit.
Melvin the Mediocre 06-08-07, 03:56 PM	Then you haven't played with any of the players I play with. We aren't powergamers, nor munchkins. We just play it really smart by limiting the Hydra's actions. You just have to get... outside of the box a bit. Oh see, you're lucky. Most of us don't encounter hydras that are already boxed up. :rofl: Okay, I'm sorry for saying that. I'll go stand in the corner.
InkBlot 06-08-07, 04:17 PM	Four 3rd level fighters/rogues = cr7 I can believe that. The rogues just have to play it smart. Start it off with 3 rogues hiding in the shadows, and one rogue who jumps out in front of the PCs with "your money or your life." Since the one rogue surprised them, he'll get the surprise round with which to ready an action to huck a dagger into the first person to disagree. Since the PCs will most likely answer immediately, before acting, they'll be flatfooted (sneak-attackable). Give all the rogues precise shot and point blank shot, and at least a 12 in Str. The rest of the rogues will help the front man take down the first person who disagrees, so in the first round one PC will be taking about 44 damage (2d6+1d4+2 from each rogue). This could send a 7th level wizard into negative HP, or eat about 2/3 or 1/2 of a 7th level fighter's HP. Now the PCs go. The front man is toast. The rogues hiding in the darkness each have about a 50/50 shot of being toast, I'd say. As the surviving rogues take their actions, they'll each make a parting shot on the weakest looking PC or the nearest PC, then run away to disappear into the shadows. The party has lost a little less than 1/4 of their resources, in HP and whatever expendables (if any, maybe a spell or two) they used to take down the rogues. If any rogues survived, the PCs may end up spending even more resources on a chasing him or her through the city.
Captain_Kobold 06-17-07, 05:19 PM	Also bear in mind that in the confines of a city, with its alleyways and buildings, larger groups of low-CR creatures can be more effective: The party can't use many of its area-effect spells, and it is a lot easier for the group to get in amongst the party to separate them and set up flanking etc before the party can mount a solid defence. Once the party have killed a few, its going to drain much more of the party's resources to hunt down the survivors as they scatter through the streets as well.
Kerd 06-17-07, 09:16 PM	Also, don't forget the possible problem with the local Guard. Depending of the Town, the guard is not composed only of low level Warriors and Commoners. Abjurer and Enchanter wizards, high level Fighters, Paladins, Clerics (Silverflame is highly recommended) and Artificers could be allies or opponents of the player's characters and can add more interesting situations envolving the PC's avoiding being arrested (imagine the "police pursuit" in police films to get the point I'm telling here). :)
Rechan 06-17-07, 09:28 PM	Also, in places like Sharn, you can always have Urban monsters involved too. Dasask Gnolls. Minotaur and ogre work in the Cogs. Thuraskh has been bringing monsters from Droaam do to specialty work - harpies make great crowd control or guards that can non-lethally subdue an intruder. Not to mention more interesting things, like aberrations. And remember that the enemy can summon monsters to help them out. Summoned monsters don't count in the situation's ECL.