Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Oorlof 04-20-07, 07:15 PM	My players are advanced Cyran scouts trying to defend a village from a Valenar incursion, 40 years before the Mourning. This little band (10-20 strong) slipped through the Cyran border defenses and is indulging in some terror tactics, razing a little village and then retreating before Warforged infantry can arrive. The PCs have just arrived in the village and have no idea on the size and strength of the enemy forces yet. Which is good, because I don't either :embarrass What I'm trying to put together is how strong to make the individual Valenar, what tactics they can use, how they'd try to handle obstructions like summoned nasties and Walls of Fire, how they'd go about inflicting as much damage as possible on this undefended town. Now that worthy opponents have arrived, the Valenar will definitely stick around for a good fight! The PCs are level 9: Halfling Telepath, Human Child of Winter Druid, Hobgoblin Spiked Chain-specialist, Gnome wizard. I'm thinking a couple of high-level opponents (druid 9 shapeshifted into horse-form, ranger 4/fighter 6 leader, wizard 9 spellcaster) with the rest of the Valenar around levels 5 or 6. Any ideas on tactics and spells I can use to make this a memorable fight for the PCs? I'd like for them to overcome a portion or all of the warband and can let the Warforged cavalry arrive when things get out of hand - I don't want a TPK.
Cifer 04-20-07, 08:23 PM	There's one problem: Levels. Of course you can change that as you like, but in the standard Eberron, a Fighter2 is considered Elite. If you want to change it so the elves have a chance, it depends on how large your battlegrid is. If it's big, the elves just stay on their horses and out of range of pretty much everything - make sure they're about 100 feet away from everyone that might get dangerous for them and let them rain down arrows. More specifically, always let four of them ready actions to disrupt the gnome wizard and the halfling (if he is recognizable as a psion). If they can lure the PCs away from the village, make a sharp turn to toss some alchimists fire on roofs to set them alight and force the villagers to come out. Either disable everything that is a melee threat (essentially your hobgob and possibly the druid) and close in for the kill or get the casters first and stay at range.
Dragom 04-20-07, 09:14 PM	In Eberron a "Normal" Valenar elf is a level 4 Ranger. Think it was mentioned in the Valenar Dragonshard. Their supposed to be the flat out scarriest troops you could encounter in the field. As in a Full platoon of six such cavalry ripping appart Full platoons of 12 Warforged or Karnathi Skeletons with simple ease. I would expect some of the more rekless Valenar to lunge through a wall of fire in contempt to get into the meat of the battle faster. The less reckless ones one cirlce around at high speed and try to weaken the party with ride-by-attacks before closing in for the kill. Valenar spell casters would be few and far between. The Valenar are the warrior branch of elf society after all. A druid to cast entangle to reduce the parties mobility doesn't have to be high level to be very annoying. Similarily a Cleric of war doesn't have to be high level to bless two dozen warriors. And never forget to push the severe advantage of the Valenar Warhorse. Most of the time the Valenar will try to out manuever any mere obstacle that gets between them and the "Battle proper"
ChaoticGood 04-20-07, 10:04 PM	For a truly terrifying "big brute," consider a Scout/Dervish build for one of your Valenar. Battle Dance + Skirmish = nastiness that doesn't end. Even more deadly, though more fragile, is a Rogue/Dervish build. Team him or her with about three "normal" Valenar or a simple shieldbearer with a bag of tricks to routinely set up flanking positions. Of course, it helps that I use Wood Elves for Valenar, thus making their stat adjustments +2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int. - Some ideas for Valenar warfare: Move through the enemy quickly, never allowing them a chance to strike you. (Never stand in one square and go toe-to-toe with an opponent that you can escape and snipe at from afar, or use Spring Attack.) - Wear them down and keep them guessing as to where you'll strike next. (If it is at all plausible for the Valenar to attack from the direction the PCs aren'tguarding, have them appear there.) - The full-on charge of the cavalry should not occur until the defenders have been harried and worn away to about half their strength. If this means retreating and returning for a renewed assault, do so quickly; don't give them time to heal.
shadowpavement 04-20-07, 10:24 PM	If you want to give your PC's a good scare while waiting have a small group of valenar slip into the town late at night and kill every other person in their bed. The morale of the town would be way down after that. THough it will depend on how you want to play your Valenar, as hard core warriors, or more eliete assault team. I think this tactic used to be used by the Finnish military when an enemy force was nearby. They'd ski in silently and slit the throat of every other troop while everyone slept. When the rest would wake in the morning the guy on each side of him would be dead. That would Freak the living beegezus out of me.
Oorlof 04-21-07, 04:10 AM	Nice ideas so far, thanks! I know the PCs are rather high-level for Eberron, but this campaign has been playing for 1.5 year now...that tends to add up. I'll definitely have the warband go for the low blows - concentrated arrow fire on casters, magically pinning melee-ers, etc etc. That and spring-attacking (on nor off those pretty horses) should keep the PCs busy. We've a huge battle-map so I can pull off the attacks from 100+ feet distance. Sneaking into town for some nighttime murder and arsony is a nice twist...consider it yoinked...
Alex_ 04-21-07, 10:27 AM	The Valenar, although pretty capable in a stand up fight, are just level 4 rangers. They have a good BaB and relative mobility, but light armor, and as Elves, lower than normal HP for a frontline melee combat. And these guys have a tradition of fighting stuff like Giants of ancient Xendrik and Dragons, which are all close to a CR9 and higher . I'm fairly sure they didn't do this by focusing on melee or ranged attacks, and going into extended battles. Their opponents quite easily outdo them when it comes to melee, and have just as many options for magic (if not moreso) and can use projectile weapons. I see Valenar as being reeeeaaaaally sneaky against anything that they know they couldn't just slaughter in a stand up fight. Every Valenar strike should take place at night while the majority of the enemy is asleep (they see fine under moonlight and never really "sleep"). They should go directly for the individuals they know pose a great threat, but can be killed of quickest, and hit them first, by whatever means necessary and then do everything in their power to get away, preferably unseen. It shouldn't even matter if the enemy knows they were attacked by Valenar elves. The Elves know what they did, and that's good enough for them. Poisons, booby traps, diseases: all are welcome as long as it gets the job done. Everything in their power should be done to avoid an engagement that lasts more than a couple of rounds before they disappear, even if they're out of range. Spells that give them bonuses to AC, make them invisable, improve speed and ignore movement penalties, or limit the enemy's ability to locate, identify, and engage them. They should take lots of feats to improve burst damage and allow coup de grace for quick kills. Improved critical, use of keen weapons, weapon focus, weapon specialization, slaying weapons, poison weapons, bane weapons, Trusetrike, Bestow Curse, Deaf/Blindness, and Hold Person spells. They shouldn't have to worry about handling powerful melee opponents or casters. Those individuals shouldn't even have a chance to counterattack. When you're fighting against Giants (especially the superior Xendrik Giants) and Dragons, even a single full round action in response to an attack can mess up a 4th level Ranger. Don't even allow them that chance. A conflict with the Valenar should pull from every guerrilla, insurgent, black ops, and assassin story in the book, only the Valenar are supposed to be amongst the best in Khorvaire. Your PCs should end up both hating their stinking guts and coming up with horrible things to do once they catch those bastards, but also harboring some respect. When the Party finally does get into a fight that lasts longer than usual with the Valenar (like say the Valenar start getting cocky and think they can finish the PCs off now), they should be more inclined to just totally unload everything they have on them, and pull no punches.
Drag0nUL 04-24-07, 05:26 PM	The average Valenar elf(as presented in Races of Eberron) is a level 2 ranger. which is significantly better than most 'average' troops except the warforged and the karrnathi undead, but not nearly enough to pose a challenge to a group of 9th level adventures. Unless you add a few high level characters to the raiding party they are pretty much doomed. How I would do it: the raiding party is led by an impetuous Valenar warlord who wants to take matters into his own hands(this would justify his high level). I would suggest something along the lines Ranger 2/Fighter 4/Tempest 3-5(modified so that it uses ride-by attack instead of spring attack) depending how hard to beat you want him to be. The let's say the 20 men strong group is split into 4 platoons of 5 men each. The soldiers are 2nd level, but a platoon commander ought to be somewhat more experienced, maybe around level 4-5. Add 1-2 medium level arcane spellcasters for support (warmages work pretty well with Valenar IMHO, but multiclass fighter/sorcerers are also good, and they offer more versatility) and a cleric for healing and you have got yourself a pretty well rounded raiding party. As for tactics, the Valenar elves' greatest asset is their speed. Due to their exceptional horses they can outmaneuver almost any other military unit on the face on Khorvaire(with the sole exception of the Knights Phantom of Aundair). So they should capitalize on that; swift strikes where nobody expects it, harassment etc. Sooner or later this will bring them in direct contact with the PC's(a small skirmish for the beginning, the Valenar losing a few men, the PC's revealing the true extent of their power). The Valenar commander would then recognize he is facing a group of elite troopers and he needs special tactics to come out on top. Realizing that his soldiers are no match for the PC's in a straight fight(are of effect spells would be his greatest problem) he would probably try to pick a fight in conditions that favor him. I would do this as a night attack on the PC's camp. This would hopefully catch them unaware and without their armors(unless we they are all wearing light armor, we are talking of minutes before they can put them on). The elves would circle the camp at about 100 ft., keeping distance between themselves so that they are not an easy target for an energy ball/flame strike/fireball and pepper the static targets with arrows from their bows. The 1-2 arcanists I have suggested could throw a couple of fireballs on their own(if warmages) or get hold of a few scrolls of dispel magic and ready actions in case the PC's cast something(if fighter/sorcerers). If the PC's try to close in with any of the elves, they retreat to the open field, hopefully luring the pursuers after them. Once the PC's are on flat clear ground the higher level Valenar(the platoon commanders and the warlord) can use ride-by attacks to finish the already battered PC's off.
Oorlof 04-25-07, 11:34 AM	Nice ideas there, Drago0nUL. The PCs are encamped in the village they're defending, so no mowing down their little campsite for me :weep: The village has quite a few straight roads from one end to the other, however, making ride-through-attacks feasible. So here's how my planning panned out. I decided on a 16-Elf warband using ride-by tactics on the village. The band is quite experienced, so I used veteran NPCs, levels 4. I'm hoping to get the PCs running from one challenge to another, always hitting a section of town they're not in at the moment. My win-goal is burning down town hall and killing as many of the 20 warrior 2-defenders as possible. Added bonus would be destroying the entire town, but with Warforged reinforcements a day's march away, I'm guessing it won't come to that. The PCs win if they can hold off the Valenar until the reinforcements arrive and/or if they can kill the band's two leaders, a ranger and a druid. The band's leader is a ranger 9, specializing in the double scimitar. I gave him a Valenar warhorse as animal companion. The second highest Valenar is a druid 8, mainly used as casting support for the leader, also with a Valenar warhorse. The warhorse is found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20051114a Magical support consists of two level 7 evokers, using fly/protection spells/ranged direct damage (orbs of fire, fireballs, walls of fire) I added two clerics (Keepers of the Past), who'll stay away from the village and heal the fighters after a strike. The rest of the warband consists of 10 veterans (ranger 4, ranged-spec), "favoring" humans. I'll have the Valenar attack the town in waves at night. First one team of 5 rangers strafes one side of the village with burning arrows and flammable oil, then veers off again. When people are evacuating their houses into the street, the warleader and druid charge through that street, mowing down as many as they can. Any serious resistance will cause them to ride on/fall back. The five guys who attacked earlier are going to split in a group of 2 and 3 and ride through a street crossing the one their leaders are hitting, rendering aid if needed or setting some more buildings on fire otherwise. After this strike, all the Valenar pull back and get healed by the clerics, a mile from town. An hour after the first strike, the second half of the warband approaches the town from the other side, where evacuees from the burning section of town are massing. Five riders start firing burning arrows at buildings or picking off attackers, and the two mages open up on town hall with as many fire-spells as they can pull off. During the day, the warband disperses (communicating via circles of sound). A couple of warriors lead the precious horses far away, while the band sleeps in rope trick-spells provided by the casters. My PCs will likely try to block streets with summoned help or spells or go for the fairly fragile horses. If that happens to a group, the second team sweeps to evacuate them (two warriors can share a horse, at least for a short ride). Then it's ninja/black-op/VC/rambo time, as the PCs get hunted down by angry, angry Elves :D
gaerfindel 04-25-07, 11:59 AM	So here's how my planning panned out... Ooo..nasty. Do post the results of this merry little encounter, won't you? :fight!:
Wymarc 04-25-07, 03:19 PM	Valenar spell casters would be few and far between. gotta disagree there. I can totaly see every squad having a bard, constantly reminding the the squad of what great uncle Bob did, inspiring the Valenar to victory. as for tactics, I would probably say a few (3 - 5) raids preceading the battle(archery and setting buildings alight mosty), followed by a massive cavalry carge from all directions. alternatly, if the Cyrians are unaware of the imminant attack, have the cavalry charge unexpectantly somehow, coming from a blind-side or under Invisibility, or some similar effect. another thing to consider is possibly having infiltrators attack from within the village partway or at the begining of the battle. If you havn't already, you might want to check out Heros of Battle, A book about playing in a war setting.
Oorlof 04-29-07, 11:33 AM	Ooo..nasty. Do post the results of this merry little encounter, won't you? Gladly...as expected, no plan ever survives first contact with the enemy. My players posted sentries on rooftops and used dimension door/teleport to intercept the valenar. They also directed all the townsfolk to the central square, having them barricade themselves in. After an Evard's Black Tentacles and a couple of direct damage-spells on the horses, the first band retreated. They came back for another pass, targetting only one PC, but couldn't bring the party druid down. Those two raids cost them 4 horses and 3 elfs. The PCs had won the first round. Then the elf wizards opened up on town square with fireballs and walls of fire. The PCs managed to bring one down with concentrated missile fire and spells; the other escaped. Many villagers killed. My guys wanted to take the initiative and had their wizard create an illusion of warforged infantry coming to the village's aid. Too bad one of the valenar saw through the illusion after firing arrows at it and called for a charge. The PCs called out for direct 1-on-1 combat of champions to settle the issue, creatively insulting the bands leader and his ancestors. It turned into an interesting battle between a spiked chain-master using all of his tricks to keep the elf away from his double scimitar and the elf shrugging, pulling a longbow from his back and opening fire. The PC was quickly behind in hitpoints, so the rest of the party decided to attack the circling warband and summon nasties to save their buddy. They managed to kill the warband's leader and his druid aide, almost lost two of their own to retaliatory arrows and drove off the elves. I had the real warforged reinforcements arrive shortly thereafter. All in all, a nasty couple of encounters. It was really nice to see the party pull out their heavy summoning spells for that first raid, then seeing the elfs race off, dire wolves in tow, until the spells duration ran out. I managed to trick them into blowing 3 of their most powerful spells to take out 3 of the 16 elves :)
gaerfindel 04-29-07, 01:25 PM	::whistles:: Impressive. I particularly enjoy the part about insulting the elf's ancestors; good call! And the use of illusiory warforged--despite having failed--was a nice tactic, as well. Kudos to your players for inventive thinking.
Wymarc 04-30-07, 02:57 PM	very nice! well done on the player's part! love the Idiana moment with the Valenar leader :)
Oorlof 04-30-07, 03:38 PM	Thanks! It was fun to run and my players liked to tussle with the Valenar too. So much so that they immediately signed up for a trip to Xen'Drick, where they hope to find Great And Powerful Magic that can defend Cyre against its many enemies. (I'm having them search and find pieces of the artifact that broke the thirteenth moon and shattered the connection between Dal Quor and Eberron. This will, of course, be used by Cyran arcanists to create a great barrier against invaders around the country ;) )
turalisj 04-30-07, 05:31 PM	My idea would have been raids at dawn, when the party caster is likely to be just waking up and still getting spells ready. Throw a few alchemist's fires into buildings, such as inn's, the temple, etc. The caster would have been forced to waste any prepared spells early on, and the whole group would be on a greater edge. Then, the next day they would raid just as darkness fell, burning down anything that was left.
Wymarc 05-01-07, 03:15 PM	(I'm having them search and find pieces of the artifact that broke the thirteenth moon and shattered the connection between Dal Quor and Eberron. This will, of course, be used by Cyran arcanists to create a great barrier against invaders around the country ;) ) >.< gotta read the fine print :)
Oorlof 05-01-07, 03:46 PM	My guys aren't really into fine print. When they want anything written down, the psion tells his scribe (two levels of Thrallherd and he uses them as manservants :rolleyes:) to do the pen-wriggly thing...
turalisj 05-01-07, 04:53 PM	Lol. Be glad he hasn't enslaved any females as thralls, otherwise you might have a travelling harem for the thrallherd.... :P
Oorlof 05-01-07, 05:02 PM	You've no idea. One of the first things he wanted to do was give his Halfling the surname Heffner and spend some gp on red bathrobes :blush: When we pointed out how utterly non-useful that'd be, the guy smiled and said: "hey, this ain't about usefulness or power. This is about me having groupies and enjoying every last minute of it." Valid reasoning, so we went with him becoming the center of secretive cult (to the Prophet of Lightning, since he loves him that energy missile...:emp: ) Yeah, we play an evil party of self-gratifying megalomaniacs. How'd you tell?
turalisj 05-01-07, 05:23 PM	Then wouldn't they be helping the Valenar (for a price)? And here's an idea.... the thrallherd caused the mourning. The life energy of his thralls got sucked out, powered up and ancient eldritch machine within Cyre, and blasted everything within it's borders.
Oorlof 05-01-07, 05:33 PM	Good question, but the band is loyal to Cyre (LE-aligned). They'll do practically anything to make sure their country survives. On the Mourning...they'll find the raw materials that some busy magewrights will turn into one hell of a defensive weapon. It'll suck out the energy from invaders and use it to empower the defenders. Sadly, one mage, quite crucial to the project, decides to tap into the energy stream (noone will notice, right?) to raise his personal power through the roof. Ya just shouldn't tamper with magic beyond your understanding...
turalisj 05-01-07, 05:55 PM	Could also be a weapon that harnesses the latent psionic powers of everyone within Cyre's borders, but having a powerfull psion within the borders ends up overloading it and sends a shockwave wiping out everything within the borders, and mutating other things.