Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostWolf 03-15-07, 06:15 AM	I know Eberron has airships, but dose it also have Zepplins and other flying vehicles? I need to know for my new character's background. Also, the prices are as follows: Dirigible:35,000gp Zepplin: 60,000gp Air Ship: 92,000gp. Now, with airships a growing option, would you drop the prices on the other two? Thank you in advanced.
goblin_pride 03-15-07, 06:20 AM	Zepplins and dirigibles rely too much on physics for my tastes. This is Eberron, think fantastic and go big with it.
fiendish_platypus 03-15-07, 08:56 AM	umm, I don't know about zepplins or that other thing, but there is another mini-airship type thing the drow used, it's in SoX, a guy lays down and mentally controls it and another guy can stand up.
Sereno 03-15-07, 09:28 AM	I know Eberron has airships, but dose it also have Zepplins and other flying vehicles? Not by RAW. Airships look like flying ships, they aren't carried aloft by a big bag of gas. All of Eberron's flying vehicles are based on the same technology (a combination of magic and soarwood) as airships. There's been no mention in any of the sourcebooks of other types of flying craft. That's not to say you couldn't add zeppelins or a dirigibles or flapping wing ornithopters or daVinci helicopters ... they just aren't there in the ECS....
FrostWolf 03-15-07, 10:35 AM	Darn. Well, I'll talk with the DM I guess and see what he wishes to have be. And I guess I'll make a back up background also. Thanks for the quick responces.
Ehtiar 03-15-07, 10:52 AM	The ones that the drow use in Xen'drik are closer to the "ye ancient giant style magic elemental bound airship" .. Think sleds with the bound fire elemental ring at the back rather then a big ship. :cool: And its only a relative small group of Drow that have access to them. Not that it shouldn't be too hard for a little research to develop your own.. After all, it is the same basic magical /engineering principles behind the standard airship.
Bluebrush 03-15-07, 11:58 AM	Well, if you want them in you could have them as something Lyrandar used before the development of the modern airship*. Make them slower and less effective than airships though. *I'd suspect Lyrandar probably had a few inefficient flying ships based on Fly before the Zil worked out how to build the modern type with bound elementals.
FrostWolf 03-15-07, 01:51 PM	Well, if you want them in you could have them as something Lyrandar used before the development of the modern airship*. Make them slower and less effective than airships though. *I'd suspect Lyrandar probably had a few inefficient flying ships based on Fly before the Zil worked out how to build the modern type with bound elementals. Ohhh no problem there! They have a very slow speed and a low cargo capacity. You can get the stats for them in Arms and Equipment. My thought was that they saw a bit of use during the war, dropping supplies and troops off in hard to reach places that got too dangerous to risk an airship in. Anyways, those big firey rings would make a nice target in the dark, as opposed to a big, black balloon.
mightyix 03-15-07, 03:35 PM	My thought was that they saw a bit of use during the war, dropping supplies and troops off in hard to reach places that got too dangerous to risk an airship in. Anyways, those big firey rings would make a nice target in the dark, as opposed to a big, black balloon. It's too dangerous to send in a hardness 5, 3000hp to knock out of the air airship, but it's safe to send in a bag of gas? I dont' get it.
Sereno 03-15-07, 04:29 PM	It's too dangerous to send in a hardness 5, 3000hp to knock out of the air airship, but it's safe to send in a bag of gas? I dont' get it. Think of it like this: which would you rather smash into the side of a windy mountain; the beautifully crafted airship made from rare woods and infused with powerful magic, or a big cloth bag and a wicker basket? :)
FrostWolf 03-16-07, 12:21 PM	Think of it like this: which would you rather smash into the side of a windy mountain; the beautifully crafted airship made from rare woods and infused with powerful magic, or a big cloth bag and a wicker basket? :) Exactily what I was going for. And like I said, that fire ring on the airships would be a big old bull's eye for any caster or balista. But a zepplin, at night, painted black would stand a better chance of not being seen.
Elderich 03-16-07, 02:19 PM	I know Eberron has airships, but dose it also have Zepplins and other flying vehicles? I need to know for my new character's background. Also, the prices are as follows: Dirigible:35,000gp Zepplin: 60,000gp Air Ship: 92,000gp. Now, with airships a growing option, would you drop the prices on the other two? Thank you in advanced.Consider an effigy? Huge or bigger effigy of a gold dragon, with a gondola?
Cifer 03-16-07, 04:00 PM	Exactily what I was going for. And like I said, that fire ring on the airships would be a big old bull's eye for any caster or balista. But a zepplin, at night, painted black would stand a better chance of not being seen. I'd suggest using an air elemental, then.
AntiSean 03-16-07, 05:33 PM	Airships look like flying ships, they aren't carried aloft by a big bag of gas. Apparently you haven't met the same Lyrandar heirs that I have. :)
Edymnion 03-17-07, 10:26 AM	The problem with zepplins and blimps is that you have to fill them with a lighter than air gas, which you can't really get without some fairly advanced chemical and physical knowledge. Hot air balloons is about as much as I would expect anyone to have without resorting to magic.
Bluebrush 03-17-07, 12:52 PM	Well, maybe people have worked out how to manufacture lighter than air gases with magic. Sort of like either a fabricate effect or something.
Cifer 03-18-07, 08:02 AM	Swamp gasses might work if one could "catch" them. Well, maybe people have worked out how to manufacture lighter than air gases with magic. Sort of like either a fabricate effect or something. I'd prefer not to do it that way - uranium swords might lie in waiting.
FrostWolf 03-18-07, 09:29 AM	Well, maybe people have worked out how to manufacture lighter than air gases with magic. Sort of like either a fabricate effect or something. By arms and Equipment, Just Hot Air, and a throat punch for anyone at the table that questions it. (Well, maybe not the throat punch....)
Bluebrush 03-18-07, 10:20 AM	I'd prefer not to do it that way - uranium swords might lie in waiting.So? You can already get that kind of thing with the creation series if the DM is fool enough to allow it.
Cifer 03-18-07, 11:56 AM	@Bluebrush That's the point. Once you give precedence for fabricating or creating stuff that is impossible to get otherwise, it becomes more difficult to say "But not that one!"
mightyix 03-19-07, 05:16 PM	Exactily what I was going for. And like I said, that fire ring on the airships would be a big old bull's eye for any caster or balista. But a zepplin, at night, painted black would stand a better chance of not being seen. The ship can be powered by fire or air. The air ring doesn't paint you as a target at night like fire would, and piercing weapons don't do much damage to objects, so a ballista isn't going to hit much of anything hard enough to really care. I'd use a rock throwing ballista (historically accurate from Roman and Greek times) instead of a standard ballista bolt. Historical examples could (according to scholars) throw a 170lb stone several hundred feet, smaller ammunition potentially much further. See Heroes of Battle for siege engine rules. And in the absence of hydrogen or helium (the only two gasses substantially lighter than nitrogen) are in short supply in Ebberon, or any fantasy campaign. If you're using 'hot air' balloons, you've got the same fire thing to worry about, as well as vulnerability to fire. A single fire spell (that sets flamable objects alight) will crash any airbag-lift airship. An Eberron airship, by the rules of the game, has several hundred 10x10 sections and takes a cumulative total of 3000 or so HPs (IIRC) before it crashes, with hardness 5 protecting it, hardness 10 protecting the ring, and Fire Reistance 10 to keep it flying after it hits something. The durn things are almost effing impossible to destroy by any regular means, and a disintigration spell is only an inconvenience to something that big. Given the 20 ton cargo capacity and the ability to mount dozens of ballista, carry dozens of griffon riders, drop barrels of flaming oil, and a massive contingent of rapelling soldiers, the Eberron airship is an amazing offensive weapon platform.
Gurv 03-19-07, 06:01 PM	The problem with zepplins and blimps is that you have to fill them with a lighter than air gas, which you can't really get without some fairly advanced chemical and physical knowledge. Or alchemy. But I don't see it happening in Eberron, where magic is used where our world would use technology. But in my homebrew campaign, which is somewhat low-magic, there are alchemical substances which are lighter than air. Used properly, they can be used to achieve a levitate-like effect. The gnomes of the world are known for their zeppelins and dirigibles.
goblin_pride 03-19-07, 06:59 PM	Given the 20 ton cargo capacity and the ability to mount dozens of ballista, carry dozens of griffon riders, drop barrels of flaming oil, and a massive contingent of rapelling soldiers, the Eberron airship is an amazing offensive weapon platform. The Cyran Dreadnaught thread covered the offensive angles for an airship fairly well, but it got pruned so it's in the archive now. If you stretch it out, an artificer could literally make bombs that detonate as fireballs far below the airship and devastate battlefields and fortifications. 20 tons? yeah, that's not a problem, how you use the 20 tons is where it gets interesting.
Ehtiar 03-19-07, 08:59 PM	hm, seem's to me.. with an artificer around.. Twould be fairly simple to come up with a bag of air.. and some doohickey to do a "Control Temperature" spell when you needed it to make it all "hot air" .. Not everyone wants to splash out that much money on an airship.. so that could be the cheap adventurer's way to the skies :D
FrostWolf 03-19-07, 09:03 PM	The Cyran Dreadnaught thread covered the offensive angles for an airship fairly well, but it got pruned so it's in the archive now. If you stretch it out, an artificer could literally make bombs that detonate as fireballs far below the airship and devastate battlefields and fortifications. 20 tons? yeah, that's not a problem, how you use the 20 tons is where it gets interesting. Hmm... Zepplins hold 10 tons, and Dirigables, 5. Wonder what can be done with that...
Cifer 03-19-07, 10:39 PM	@Goblin_Pride I've just read through the Dreadnought thread (http://209.221.178.225/showthread.php?t=752517) (which isn't in the archives yet, btw). My take on the thing would be use in a war of Khorvaire against Sarlona, as the flagship of Lyrandar (Kraken's Wake just sounded like something massive...). At the first fortress encountered, it's devastating, but at the beginning of the second battle it suddenly turns against the rest of the fleet - Quori taking over the crew are not really nice... Of course, then you'd have a really cool boarding scenario like the one envisioned by you and guess who has to do it. Now I've just got to find out what flying things the Quori might regularly field so you have a reason to put AA weapons on the Dreadnought - probably some aerial kind of manifested Quori.
mightyix 03-20-07, 02:45 PM	As far as AA defense goes, you're best off with things like longbows, heavy crossbows, and lighter ballista with a high rate of fire. Heroes of battle has a beautiful 'volley' concept that allows for a large group of low level archers to inflict damage on a target of virtually any AC. The reason you want to use mundane weapons is that at the assumed levels of most non-adventurers in Eberron (lv 5 or less), those weapons have a superior range to any spell or spell effect and given closing times for things moving between 80' and 120'/round (typical flyers), have a much greater total damage potential against anything but a straight on attack. In the clear skies, line of sight isn't an issue either. I am THE advocate of the siege engine dreadnaught!!!! :teach:
goblin_pride 03-20-07, 04:06 PM	I am THE advocate of the siege engine dreadnaught!!!! :teach: There's a reason the forecastle (fo'c's'le) has that name on a ship. Between the fore and sterncastles a Lyrander ship of the line would easily explode the crew numbers from the "average" and literally make the airship a floating siege weapon. I prefer the image of proud, massive airships dancing and wheeling across the skies as they twist and turn, opening and closing the distances between each other in their aerial ballet of death and destruction.
FrostWolf 03-21-07, 09:29 AM	There's a reason the forecastle (fo'c's'le) has that name on a ship. Between the fore and sterncastles a Lyrander ship of the line would easily explode the crew numbers from the "average" and literally make the airship a floating siege weapon. I prefer the image of proud, massive airships dancing and wheeling across the skies as they twist and turn, opening and closing the distances between each other in their aerial ballet of death and destruction. Reminds me of an xbox game. Crimson Skies. Not airship battles, Zepplins, but stil freaking cool to hunt via hit and run on enemy zeps and landing pads.
Ehtiar 03-22-07, 01:00 PM	Actually, I saw a screen shot from a game earlier (Silverfall) where there's a floating city held up by dirigibles... And I just thought that would be a really cool image for a House Lyrandar outpost / base.... Picture a bunch of hulls from old airships that aren't in real servicable nature..rather then repairing them - have them brought together..and have adjoining "bridges" and other "buildings" built around them from further soarwood..with dirigible / baloons added just to help support the whole thing... - Maybe even add in a few unique air elementals bound slightly differently - so rather then forming vertical circles around..there's a bunch of horizontal circles made up from multiple air elementals underneath... hmmm..................
Alex_ 03-22-07, 02:15 PM	Or alchemy. But I don't see it happening in Eberron, where magic is used where our world would use technology. Alchemy is dominated by spellcasters. In D&D, the 2 go hand in hand. Eberron is also supposed to be more advanced in Alchemy than other settings. I wouldn't put it past them to discover Alchemical analogues to late 18th- early 20th century technology the way they do spellcasting. Lyrandar airships should beat the crap out of any other kind though.
Lokiyn 03-22-07, 10:12 PM	Now I've just got to find out what flying things the Quori might regularly field so you have a reason to put AA weapons on the Dreadnought - probably some aerial kind of manifested Quori. In my mind i'm seeing some towers built around a volcano, and the Quori sacrificing empty inspired to psionically generate an enormous floating geode with a fortress like interior with the inner crystals reflecting the faces of quori on the realm of dreams and the nightmares of a continent. I envision very few (1-2, four tops) of these crystal fortresses, however i envision them huge, massive, slow, and near indestructable.