Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Naudachu 08-31-06, 08:14 PM	I don't know if someone's already attempted this, but I wanted to detail more of the wide magic available to commoners. I thought using 0-level spells as a base would be a good start, but any ideas are welcome. Here's a few I came up with (I could use names, too ;) )...and I've started compiling the list below. Single use, use-activated 0-level (25gp) - cure minor wounds - band-aids (by Donald Cannith) - daze or flare - good for escaping muggings, like modern day mace - prestidigitation - spices for food - ray of frost - chills drink (dissolving ice cube?) (by Euangelion) - resistance - daily vitamin - stick (SpC) - simple stick touches two surfaces, works like glue (by OneWinged4ngel) - touch of fatigue - sleeping pills (by Shady314) 1st-level (50gp) - animate rope - sailor's soap - disguise self - actor's makeup - endure elements - sun screen (applied to the forehead), dissolving tablet (served in drinks on hot or cold days) - mount - figurine? again this could be useful, longer lasting ones available (50gp/2 hours) 2nd-level (300gp) Multiple use-activated 0-level (50 charges: 500gp, 1/day: 200gp, 2/day: 400gp, unlimited use: 1000gp) - amanuesis - Sivis pen (by OneWinged4ngel) -- large scale printing press - 3000gp (by OneWinged4ngel) - arcane mark - Sivis stamp (by OneWinged4ngel) - create water - faucet (by Donald Cannith) -- like a beer barrel with a tap, able to create and hold 4 gallons each day? - dancing lights - for entertainment, something like a lava lamp - detect magic and read magic - artificer's monocle (by OneWinged4ngel) - detect poison - bowl (by Euangelion) - ghost sound - entertainment, used by musicians - guidance - "thinking cap" (by ornitholestes) - know direction - compass (by Euangelion) - mending - magic wrench (by Donald Cannith) - Merill's marvelous masterpiece - paintbrush (by OneWinged4ngel) - message - intercom, also used on gates outside mansions - prestidigitation - washer/dryer, cloth of cleaning (by Euangelion, Korhal_IV and anonymous) -- possible charge/customer price? 1st-level magewright collects 5gp/use and recharges it later by casting the spell into it - prestidigitation - lighter/firestarter (by OneWinged4ngel as in excerpt from Tome and Blood (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707) with thanks to Loki5654) - purify food and water - bowl (by Euangelion) - ray of frost - air conditioning (by neantollo) 1st-level (50 charges: 1000gp, 1/day: 400gp, 2/day: 800gp, unlimited use: 2000gp) - alarm - doormat (by OneWinged4ngel) - animate rope - climber's rope - appraising touch (SpC) - scoping appraiser's lens (by OneWinged4ngel) - burning hands - lighter/firestarter (by Shady314) - cheat (SpC) - fatespinner's dice, when attuned owner wills it (by OneWinged4ngel) - comprehend languages - translator -- "diplomat's earring", small dragonshard (by OneWinged4ngel) - detect secret doors - like a flashlight? useful for inquisitives - endure elements - umbrella (by VVill) -- a parisol or handheld fan studded with dragonshards for noble ladies? - expeditious retreat - messenger's shoes - floating disk - wheelchair (by JulesCARV) - healthful rest (SpC) - Jorasco blanket, cast on those in hospital beds (by OneWinged4ngel) - identify - scroll case with retracting scroll, slot for pearls (have to credit my gaming group with this) - mount - dragonshard studded saddle - reduce person - tool to squeeze into tight spaces (by JulesCARV) - remove scent (SpC) - deodorant/air freshner (by OneWinged4ngel) - shocking grasp - electrified fence or screen - silent image - dragonshard projector (by OneWinged4ngel) - snowshoes (SpC) - Wayfarer's snowshoes (by OneWinged4ngel) -- first created for the famed Wayfarer expedition to Frostfell - unseen servant - servant's bell (by OneWinged4ngel) 2nd-level (50 charges: 6000gp, 1/day: 2400gp, 2/day: 4800gp, unlimited use: 12,000gp) - make whole - like an arc welder (by Donald Cannith)
Donald_Cannith 08-31-06, 08:24 PM	create water: water facets...imagin running water without the pesky pipes ad such just sorta have a stick that has water flow out of it mending wrench: just touch your slightly broken object with this shiny wrench and *presto* its fixed cure minor wounds items: im imagining magical bandaids
operations 08-31-06, 09:44 PM	The NPC Magewright for my current game has a wand of Acid Splash. Why? It's cheap to make, and recharge, and it attacks at range as a touch attack, which is the only way to poor guy has a chance to hit.
Euangelion 08-31-06, 10:31 PM	This has been mentioned before, but prestidigitation-powered laundries (would that technically be called dry cleaners?) A bowl that glows if poisoned food (whether intentional or from spoilage) is placed in it, and/or one that purifies food placed in it (purify food and water) 1 or more times per day. A compass that always points north (know direction). A small Eberron shard that instantly chills any beverage it's placed in (ray of frost).
ChaoticGood 08-31-06, 10:56 PM	A small Eberron shard that instantly chills any beverage it's placed in (ray of frost). For that matter, a box enchanted with prestidigitation and/or ray of frost that keeps food cool and fresh.
Shady314 08-31-06, 11:25 PM	Touch of Fatigue sleeping pills?
ornitholestes 08-31-06, 11:48 PM	Thinking Cap, an ornate hat that gives you +1 on a single skill check per day (guidance). *edited for bad grammer*
Korhal_IV 09-01-06, 02:52 AM	This has been mentioned before, but prestidigitation-powered laundries (would that technically be called dry cleaners?) A cloth of cleaning - removes stains, smells, etc., etc. There's probably just one in a small village, but since it works so fast, there's no need for more. :)
OneWinged4ngel 09-01-06, 03:30 AM	Sivis Pens and printing presses that utilize amanuesis (From the Spell Compendium) to copy text. (Quoted from my House Rules post) -Printing Presses in Eberron are created through the efficient use of magic. A cantrip spell called Amanuesis (From Spell Compendium) which copies text combined with a simple magic item that prints to pages allows the creation of printing presses. There are two basic types of printing press-type items. One copies on a one-to-one basis, or directly produces text from inputted commands [an enchanted pen that writes on its own], called a Sivis Pen, the other transfers one text copy to multiple papers (large-scale printing press). The first type is relatively cheap and sees employ in sivis stations Khoirvare 'round, while the second is more specalized but extremely useful for it's given task. A Sivis Pen costs 500 galifars. A large-scale printing press costs 3000 galifars. ___ Miraculous paintbrushes that allow the use of Merill's Marvelous Masterpiece (http://www.thetangledweb.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1205) while held (but still require paint to empower) ___ A 'lighter' that creates a small arcane fire (as Prestidigitation can) for a brief time, able to light fires like a tindertwig.
Shady314 09-01-06, 03:54 AM	A 'lighter' that creates a small arcane fire (as Prestidigitation can) for a brief time, able to light fires like a tindertwig. Brilliant. Though producing actual flame is outside the purview of the prestidigitation spell. But burning hands is only lvl 1 which is within the purview of a 1st level magewright. So there's absolutely no reason Cannith can't make a brisk business selling these. This is totally yoinked!
Donald_Cannith 09-01-06, 08:38 AM	better yet how about an arc welder of sorts powered by make whole
Naudachu 09-01-06, 01:18 PM	Lots of good ideas. Thanks guys. Keep them coming, if you want, and I'll start compiling them at the top. Okay, well I just lost the long post I made...frustrating. Anyway, I was saying how I was originally thinking of single use 0-level and 1st-level items like the feather fall tokens. But I could see some businesses investing in some more expensive continuous use items. Although I don't think selling these is in the best interest of the makers. Do magic items ever need maintenance? They would probably force people to buy items with charges, periodically needing to be recharged for a price (anyone ever seen a price for this?). And actually a charged item is half-price. I was working out the feasibility of commoners buying these items (0-level 25gp, 1st-level 50gp). Here's what I found, let me know if I missing anything. Average level 1 professional with 4 ranks in Profession (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/profession.htm) makes 7gp/week -> 210gp/month -> 2520gp/year. They rent an average residence in Sharn (though more likely buy one), let's say the high end at 40gp/month. So that leaves them 170gp/month, and let's say 40gp for other expenses (food, entertainment, etc.). 130gp/month is more than enough to afford these items. An untrained commoner on the other hand makes 7sp/day -> 30sp(3gp)/month -> 36gp/year. They can barely afford a poor residence (average 2gp/month) let alone any of these items. Hm, interesting. Well let me know what you think.
JulesCARV 09-01-06, 04:24 PM	Average level 1 professional with 4 ranks in Profession (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/profession.htm) makes 7gp/week -> 210gp/month -> 2520gp/year. I think you mixed up days and weeks. There aren't 30 weeks in a month. Anyway, let's say that people typically either have -1 int, +1 wis or the other way around. This isn't always true, as some people have +2 int, +1 wis, or some people have -1 in both, and some people just have +0 all around, but let's say that as an average, professionals have +1 wisdom and craftsmen have +1 intelligence, so each is taking advantage of their better ability. Now, craftsmen have 4 ranks, +1 intelligence, +3 skill focus, and +2 masterwork tools, for a total modifier of +10. Add an average roll of 10.5 to it and they have a roll of 20.5, for 10.25 gp per week. In a 52-week year, assuming no vacations, they make 533 gp. Professionals have 4 ranks, +1 wisdom, and +3 skill focus, for a total modifier of +8. Add an average roll of 10.5 to it and they have a roll of 18.5, for 9.25 gp per week. In a 52-week year, they make 481 gp. I think there should be some way for professionals to get a +2 circumstance bonus -- guild accreditation? License to practice their profession? A permanent office? -- but as of now, I don't know of any. These are people who are rather good at what they do, with skill focus and all. They're maybe upper middle class. For someone with a -1 wisdom modifier, and just one rank in profession, and no skill focus or anything, they can make profession checks, but without any modifier, so they just make 10.5 on their rolls, for 5.25 gp per week, for 273 gp per year. Then, day laborers -- probably people between real jobs or displaced -- make 1 sp per day, for 36.5 gp/year, but since their employment is probably intermitant (which is why they're day laborers in the first place), maybe only 25-30 gp/year.
Donald_Cannith 09-01-06, 07:34 PM	poin is the unskiled laborer goes without for the msot part for instance a untrained commoner with a create water eater facet is probably considered to be upper eschelon amongthem or they savedfor years to be able o afford that
Just another user 09-01-06, 07:59 PM	With Carged you mean a limited numer of non replaceable charges or charges by day? because it make a big difference and you should specify either how many charges or charges by day the item have. for example a 500 gp faucet that can be used only 50 times it is not really convenient who want spend 500 gp/month for water? But if it is usable 2/day then is better. not much better, but still better. and by the RAW there is no way to recharge a charged item, at least AFAIK Remember that such items don't need only to be useful but even to be convenient Brilliant. Though producing actual flame is outside the purview of the prestidigitation spell. But burning hands is only lvl 1 which is within the purview of a 1st level magewright. So there's absolutely no reason Cannith can't make a brisk business selling these. This is totally yoinked! Why yes, there is a good reason. That it would cost 1000 gold pieces, how many people do you think would be ready to spend 10.000+$ for a lighter, a lighter that can be used only a limited number of times or a limited number of times every day, to boot
Illway 09-01-06, 09:31 PM	Now, craftsmen have 4 ranks, +1 intelligence, +3 skill focus, and +2 masterwork tools, for a total modifier of +10. Add an average roll of 10.5 to it and they have a roll of 20.5, for 10.25 gp per week. In a 52-week year, assuming no vacations, they make 533 gp. Professionals have 4 ranks, +1 wisdom, and +3 skill focus, for a total modifier of +8. Add an average roll of 10.5 to it and they have a roll of 18.5, for 9.25 gp per week. In a 52-week year, they make 481 gp. Keep in mind that crafters have to pay 1/3 the cost of their materials costs as well, where professionals do not.
JulesCARV 09-01-06, 11:06 PM	Keep in mind that crafters have to pay 1/3 the cost of their materials costs as well, where professionals do not. I can't say for sure, but I think those are two different uses of the craft skill. The "practicing trade" function mentioned at the beginning says nothing about deducting material costs from the result. The 1/3rd material cost is for creating items. Now, a level 1 adept of Kol Korran with the commerce domain, four ranks in profession, skill focus (profession), and a +1 wisdom modifier has a profession check at a +18 modifier, for 741 gp/year, which is, of course, completely irrelevant if he sells his spellcasting services of three 0-level and two 1st-level spells per day, which are worth 35 gp per day, or 12,775 gp/year, which renders profession pretty worthless even if she loses 3/4ths of that to a dragonmarked house that retails the services.
OneWinged4ngel 09-02-06, 12:51 AM	Brilliant. Though producing actual flame is outside the purview of the prestidigitation spell. But burning hands is only lvl 1 which is within the purview of a 1st level magewright. So there's absolutely no reason Cannith can't make a brisk business selling these. This is totally yoinked! Thanks for the positive feedback! I believe you're mistaken on the flame thing, however... I expressly recall a wizards article somewhere stated that creating a small flame like a tindertwig was within the purview of Prestidigitation. However, I will have to find what this is from. It may have been Tome and Blood... which is 3.0, but it is still perfectly valid by the existing description, as it does not cover any ability of any other spell. If it's an issue, I guess I could dig through my pile of books and stuff... The point is, prestidigitation can cover a lot more than what is actually written there (the cleaning and such) and this is much of the point of the spell. It can create pretty much ANY minor effect of cantrip-level that's not covered by other cantrips, including a little candlelight that couldn't hurt anyone and would only dimly light your own square. Actually, I think a faint little flame is certainly in line with creating a little mishapen hunk of rock or something. However, even if you think this is not the case and not under the purview of prestidigitation, you could just use my little custom spell: Burning Talent. (http://www.thetangledweb.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1223) :D As for a high cost, I would imagine it as the equivalent of carrying around a solid gold lighter or something... something that the very rich smoker who really likes to flash his big cigars or whatever would have (Just how rich would depend on what the cost comes out to be). The rich will spend hundreds of dollars on a designer PEN, I don't think an expensive lighter is out of range for a wealthy clientelle... One thing is for certain though: Burning Hands is definitely overboard for a lighter!! :eek:
Dracon 09-02-06, 02:48 AM	by the RAW there is no way to recharge a charged item, at least AFAIK While true for single use items it is possible for items like wands, staves, and other items with a set number of charges. Of course magic items that have used all their charges are considered nonmagical so it could only be recharged as long as it has at least 1 charge left. In both Creating Wand and Staff it says 'the creator must have prepared the spell to be stored'. A example of a rechargeable item is the ring of spell storing which you have to 'imbue with spell ability', which is exactly what you are doing when creating a charged item just on a larger scale. If you would like a actual quote from the book I wasn't able to find one but I did find it in a older book. ADnD DMG p122: Some items that carry several charges are rechargeable. Recharging isn't easy, but it is easier than creating an entirely new magical item. High-level wizards or priests may find it useful to boost up an old item. To recharge an item, it must first be enchanted through the use of...(insert Craft feat)... Once prepared, new charges can be cast into the item. One benefit of recharging an item is that each charge requires only the spells' normal casting time... (insert normal crafting time). However, recharging is not without risk to the item. Each time the item is enchanted to recharge, it must roll a saving throw vs spell (using the saving throw of the caster)... (Fort I believe havn't looked at the conversions for a while)... with a -1 penalty. If this saving throw is failed, the character has accidentally interfered with the magic of the item and it crumbles into dust. The notes reflect the changes from second ed to 3rd/3.5. Though it is properly referenced if the above quote violates the copyright part of the code of conduct WizO's please remove the quote.
Naudachu 09-02-06, 04:09 AM	I think you mixed up days and weeks. There aren't 30 weeks in a month. Oops. Thanks. I wonder if I had it right the first time I typed it and lost it to oblivion. Oh well, this makes a lot more sense. So, using your numbers, assuming 4 weeks a month :) : - craftsman: 10.5gp/week -> 42gp/month - 20gp/month (avg residence) - 10gp for other expenses = 12gp/month - professional: 9.25gp/week -> 37gp/month...= 7gp/month - beginning professional: 5.25gp/week -> 21gp/month - 10gp/month (cheap avg residence) - 5gp (other expenses) = 6gp/month So these guys are saving up for the single use items and the multiple use items are out of reach or only availble through a loan. for example a 500 gp faucet that can be used only 50 times it is not really convenient who want spend 500 gp/month for water? That's true...I guess the 2/day makes more sense (especially since only the wealthy are buying these). And at 2 gallons per use they could store the water and use it as needed. I guess I just assumed 2/day would be more, but it is actually cheaper. I added prices for different options at the top. These could be like different grade models. Thanks Dracon for the quote. I thought I had heard of it somewhere. So, it sounds like you just find a spell caster willing to cast the spell to recharge it. The cost then should be (assuming they have the level 1 assistants do the work) 5gp/charge for 0-level and 10gp/charge for 1st-level. Of course getting a bunch of charges at one time could be problematic. Although maybe an artificer could transfer essence from one item to another.
Shady314 09-02-06, 04:28 AM	Thanks for the positive feedback! I believe you're mistaken on the flame thing, however... I expressly recall a wizards article somewhere stated that creating a small flame like a tindertwig was within the purview of Prestidigitation. However, I will have to find what this is from. It may have been Tome and Blood... which is 3.0, but it is still perfectly valid by the existing description, as it does not cover any ability of any other spell. If it's an issue, I guess I could dig through my pile of books and stuff... The point is, prestidigitation can cover a lot more than what is actually written there (the cleaning and such) and this is much of the point of the spell. It can create pretty much ANY minor effect of cantrip-level that's not covered by other cantrips, including a little candlelight that couldn't hurt anyone and would only dimly light your own square. Actually, I think a faint little flame is certainly in line with creating a little mishapen hunk of rock or something. However, even if you think this is not the case and not under the purview of prestidigitation, you could just use my little custom spell: Burning Talent. (http://www.thetangledweb.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1223) :D As for a high cost, I would imagine it as the equivalent of carrying around a solid gold lighter or something... something that the very rich smoker who really likes to flash his big cigars or whatever would have (Just how rich would depend on what the cost comes out to be). The rich will spend hundreds of dollars on a designer PEN, I don't think an expensive lighter is out of range for a wealthy clientelle... One thing is for certain though: Burning Hands is definitely overboard for a lighter!! :eek: I was just going by the description of the prestidigitation spell in the PHB. Granted it mentions it can "warm" objects in an area. I just don't personally like the idea of a 0-level cantrip being able to create a small flame when that small flame is capable of producing much larger flame. It's pretty clear prestidigitation is meant to be very limited in how much impact it can actually have on the world. Yes it can create a small misshapen object but remember that object is incredibly fragile. To the point I think if you used it to create anything and threw it at someone it'd be no better than picking up a pile of dirt and throwing it at them. It says it can create magical "light." Not fire. Part of the usefulness of burning hands is that it can actually burn things and do actual fire damage. If you want to get really technical with the rules the fire from the lighter is kind of overcoming the hardness of whatever object you're attempting to light. I don't see prestidigitation doing that. The lowest level spell that mentions being able to do actual fire damage is burning hands. I do see your point though. It does say it can warm objects which I can see being enough to light a cigarette on fire but using warmth to light anything thicker than paper is hard.But I really don't see it as a big deal. Just my own personal taste. I won't be kicking down your down and dragging you off to the DnD prison of people who play wrong. :D And yes though I didn't say it this is clearly something meant for the rich. Though I'd reduce the cost slightly as I see this being produced cheaper and quicker by Cannith. It's got definite advantages over tindertwigs and the like. And remember safe portable lighter's weren't invented in our world till about 1903 so having one at Eberron technology levels would be sweet for anyone. Yes it'd be slightly limited at 3 times a day. But how often does someone NEED to use this? If they're at their home or an establishment they can use a candle. But if you're an adventurer looking to light your campfire... still it's not like I said everybody in my Eberron is going to have one now. It's something for the upper middle class and higher. The sort of thing a father passes down to his son.
OneWinged4ngel 09-02-06, 05:09 AM	Heh, I'm still fairly sure it's (or was) within the purview of Prestidigitation (but I still don't have access to my books now, though I think that was from Tome and Blood), and I'm not sure why my name would be put under Ray of Frost (Fire) (which isn't a spell) or Burning Hands for a lighter (which I find a bit laughable ^_^;; ) on the top post... but again, Burning Talent works even better. Or just ignoring all that and making the item independent of a certain spell effect. ___ A few more random ideas off the top of my head, especially since apparently it's not just level 0 anymore: -An artificer's monocle or scoping eyepiece that uses Read Magic, or Detect Magic -A scoping appraiser's lens that uses Appraising Touch (spell compendium) -A sivis stamp for Arcane Mark -Enchanted artisan's tools that cast Magecraft -A simple pointer stick that casts Stick on two touched surfaces. (from Spell Compendium... works like glue) -Remove Scent (From Spell Compendium. Also, to a lesser extent, prestidigitation) deodorant or air freshener. -Servant's Bell: uses Unseen Servant when rung to tend to the user's needs. -Fatespinner's Dice: Uses Cheat (Spell Compendium) when the attuned owner wills it. -Jorasco Blanket: Healthful Rest (Spell Compendium) cast on those who sleep in those hospital beds. -Wayfarer's Snowshoes: Uses Snowshoes (Spell Compendium), first created for the famed Wayfarer expedition to Frostfell. -A doormat that can set an Alarm spell.
Shady314 09-02-06, 05:16 AM	Heh, I'm still pretty sure it's within the purview of Prestidigitation (but I still don't have access to my books now, though I think that was from Tome and Blood), and I'm not sure why my name would be put under Ray of Frost (Fire) (which isn't a spell) or Burning Hands for a lighter (which I find a bit laughable ^_^;; ) on the top post... but again, Burning Talent works even better. Or just ignoring all that and making the item independent of a certain spell effect. The fact there is no ray of fire spell (when there is for frost, acid and shock) in the PHB says something to me. That actual magical fire is too useful for a cantrip level spell. If Tome and Blood said prestidigitation can create a small fire I still wouldn't change my mind. I don't use Tome and Blood. I don't like using a lot of books. You say prestidigation can make a small flame that wouldn't hurt anyone? But then how could a flame possibly be so weak that it doesn't even burn flesh but can get wood to catch on fire? My point is just that I want this to be a kickass lighter. I'd say a lighter made with prestidigitation could light paper, tender and flammable liquids on fire (by warming them which is within the spell description) and not much else. But a burning hands lighter could singlehandedly light a wooden log. Like I said before it's just a personal flavor thing to me and I definitely see your argument. If I was playing and you were DM and said this I would not argue at all. But anytime I DM I'm sticking with burning hands. I don't consider that outrageous since a lvl 1 magewright can cast it. You have given me another idea though. I'll let it be used as more than a lighter. Know how lighters have the little slide that affects how much gas is used when you light up? Well I'll just let the lighter have two modes. :devil: Guess what the two modes will be. :devil: Now it's twice as useful. Yes I like that idea.
Naudachu 09-02-06, 05:28 AM	I'm not sure why my name would be put under Ray of Frost (Fire) (which isn't a spell) or Burning Hands for a lighter (which I find a bit laughable ^_^;; ) on the top post Sorry, just trying to give you credit for the original idea. I removed that. I'm interested to see the source for prestidigitation making fire. It makes sense to me. The ray of frost (fire) was my idea of using the Energy Substitution feat from Complete Arcane, but I just looked at the requirements: Knowledge(arcana) 5 ranks and one metamagic feat. So the caster would have to be 3rd level to do this, which ends up making it more expensive than burning hands. EDIT: What level are those spells from the Spell Compendium?
Loki5654 09-02-06, 05:47 AM	From the D&D excerpt from Tome and Blood (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707) Firefinger: You cause a jet of flame up to 1/2 foot long to shoot forth from your finger. The flame is hot and ignites combustible materials. Lighting a torch with this effect is a standard action (rather than a full-round action), but lighting any other fire with it takes at least a standard action (DM's discretion). In my campaign, I use a house rule that you can use the Firefinger ability of Prestidigitation to do 1 point of fire damage to an unarmored opponent with a melee touch attack. Prestidigitation is my all time favorite cantrip. When I play a wizard, I usually pick up a Ring of Prestidigitation. Unlimited uses (command word activated) for 900gp. (SL .5 x CL 1 x 1800gp = 900gp)
OneWinged4ngel 09-02-06, 05:49 AM	Ah, my trusty memory still remembers obscure things I merely skimmed over years ago! Hurrah! Thank'ee, Loki. :tiphat:
Loki5654 09-02-06, 05:57 AM	Ah, my trusty memory still remembers obscure things I merely skimmed over years ago! Hurrah! Thank'ee, Loki. :tiphat: Well, my favorite character is a pedantic Elf wizard who uses Prestidigitation a lot. Chilling wine, flavoring food, cleaning his robes, drawing elaborate diagrams in the air to illustrate his lectures. So I refer to that article a lot. In fact, I should probably bookmark it. Think I'll do that now.:)
Just another user 09-02-06, 09:35 AM	While true for single use items it is possible for items like wands, staves, and other items with a set number of charges. Of course magic items that have used all their charges are considered nonmagical so it could only be recharged as long as it has at least 1 charge left. I'm not sure if it is possible, (sadly AD&D rules don't apply to 3.x edition) but even if it was the cost of recharge an item would be the same to build another item of the same kind. (It can't be any other way, remember that, for example, the value of a wand with 25 charges is exactly half of the value of an identical wand with 50 charges, if recharge wands would be cheaper than creating new ones that would not be true)
Kryptonian Scion 09-02-06, 02:22 PM	In a 52-week year, assuming no vacations, they make 533 gp. There are only 48 weeks in an Eberronian year.
Naudachu 09-02-06, 07:33 PM	From the D&D excerpt from Tome and Blood (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20010707) That's great, thanks. I'll remove my clunky fix and link that in.
Dracon 09-02-06, 09:56 PM	I'm not sure if it is possible, (sadly AD&D rules don't apply to 3.x edition) True, not all of the rules were converted over from the start but the DM can still decide which to allow or not. I looked through a few more books and managed to find the rule for recharging magic items. It's in Unearthed Arcana on p.158. The cost calculations are based on a 3 step process begining with a cost of 10% of the base gold price. but even if it was the cost of recharge an item would be the same to build another item of the same kind. (It can't be any other way, remember that, for example, the value of a wand with 25 charges is exactly half of the value of an identical wand with 50 charges, if recharge wands would be cheaper than creating new ones that would not be true) It may not always be cheaper but: It's faster and (usually) cheaper to recharge a item than to craft or buy a new one.
OneWinged4ngel 09-02-06, 11:46 PM	It might have been missed, since I added a lot of items on an edit... but a few posts up I added several items (Just reminding, since it seems they haven't gotten updated to the list) ___ -Diplomat's Earring of Comprehend Languages. It's a small dragonshard earring. -A Dragonshard 'projector' that uses Silent Image.
Naudachu 09-06-06, 02:30 PM	It might have been missed, since I added a lot of items on an edit... but a few posts up I added several items (Just reminding, since it seems they haven't gotten updated to the list) Yeah, I actually I didn't know what level some of them were since I don't have the Spell Compendium. Can you send me those? Thanks. EDIT: I also just alphabetized the list, so its easier to see what we've used. Not that there couldn't be multiple uses for a spell.
JulesCARV 09-06-06, 04:24 PM	An Eternal Wand of Cure Light Wounds isn't worthwhile for a typical adventurer, but is probably worth it for a Jorasco hospital that gets a reasonable number of injury cases. The problem is, it's hard to determine how much it costs, because Eternal Wands are of arcane spells, and Cure Light Wounds as an arcane spell is a level 1 bard spell, which requires a level 2 bard to cast, and thus a caster level of 2. The 820 gp price is only for a level 1, caster level 1 arcane spell, so the rules don't actually determine the price of an eternal wand of CLW. It's probably either 820 gp or 1540 gp, but could cost as much as 4420 gp. (Note that the ability of artificers to create items at -2 caster levels isn't really of use here, since it doesn't reduce price: only power) Now... if only they could get an Eternal Wand of Remove Disease, but no arcane casters have that :). Neutralize poison is bardic arcana, but level 4, and thus not eligible for eternal wands either. (We'll assume that Eberron artificers have enough class not to abuse the trapmaking rules to create instantly resetting Remove Disease "traps" or anything like that.) I had an idea for a diskchair (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=696054) (basically, a wheelchair, except with Tenser's Floating Disk instead of wheels) for Eberronians who, for whatever reason, no longer have the use of their legs (or don't have legs). It's probably too pricey, though. Maybe a simple wheelchair with an eternal Unseen Servant to push it? I'm not sure Unseen Servants are strong enough, though. Reduce Person might also be a good utility spell for a magewright who is expected to fix things in tight spaces (e.g., plumber-magewrights, for instance). A gnome, halfling, or goblin magewright could fit into any duct or crawlspace for doing repairs and the like. Message might be good for some people. If artificers could come up with some sort of "thingy of message," military units could gain effective but fairly quiet coordination at a medium distance, gaining a big tactical advantage, though perhaps military usage doesn't really belong in this thread.
Save-vs-DM 09-06-06, 10:31 PM	My artificer made a few things for his staff: Cleaning Rod: A simple wooden rod that can cast prestigitation 1/day. Cost him somewhere around the neighborhood of 200 gp to make one, but it let two servents clean an entire mansion in an hour. Oh, and Amanuesis was changed to be a 0 level spell, so I can see a lot of libraries having "copy machines" that are two stands, one for a book and one with a stack of paper (that becomes the copy). A bowl that cast purify food and drink 1/day would be great for a soup kitchen. *grin* And I did figure out the best Eberron toilet. Make a pit toilet, but mount a bag of devouring at the bottom (a safe distance away). Might put in a metal grate to ensure small children (or halflings) don't fall in. Another thing that's a bit higher level, but my buddy and I made a shrine for a town that cast plant growth 1/month. The DM and I ruled it was rather cheap, as 1/month was pretty limiting. It really increased the productivity of the crops. Cheers, Save vs DM
OneWinged4ngel 09-07-06, 12:31 AM	*grin* And I did figure out the best Eberron toilet. Make a pit toilet, but mount a bag of devouring at the bottom (a safe distance away). Might put in a metal grate to ensure small children (or halflings) don't fall in. Cheers, Save vs DM The toilet you made is actually... straight out of a sourcebook (Stronghold builder's guidebook IIRC) and probably far too expensive and dangerous for a toilet :P
Euangelion 09-07-06, 12:54 AM	Now... if only they could get an Eternal Wand of Remove Disease, but no arcane casters have that :). Now that's not strictly true. Certain creatures, including but not limited to dragons (blue, red, and all metalic), couatls, and nagas (guardian and spirit), can choose from the cleric spell list for their sorcerer spells. Not that it would be common, but it's possible.
Euangelion 09-07-06, 12:59 AM	There is a formula for eternal wands (turns out that they're not really wands!): Meh, Eternal Wands are just Command Word activated wondrous items with an additional 100gp eberron shard cost for the heck of it. Thus, they're kind of worthless except for flavor purposes as they get no discount for being limited to the use of arcane spellcasters only. (Command Word pricing = X/5 uses per day * spell level * caster level * 1800gp, a 2/day 1st level CL1 item is 2/5 *1*1*1800, or 720. Add the 100gp Eberron Shard for fun, and you have 820gp or the precise cost of a CL1, SL1 Eternal Wand) Personally, I think I would make them 3/day, which isn't really much of a power boost but at least it somewhat justifies the arcane-only and spell level 3 restriction. Thus an eternal wand of cure light wounds created with the help of a bard, as opposed to one of the creatures I mentioned before, would be: (2/5*1*2*1800 gp) + 100 gp or 1540 gp. A CL5 eternal wand of magic missiles (3 1d4+1 missiles 2/day) would be (.4*1*5*1800 gp) +100 gp or 3700 gp.
OneWinged4ngel 09-07-06, 01:05 AM	Nice find on the wands, Eu! (and of course, Sancus) :) It's worth noting though, I think, that if those are the DMG guidelines, all of those are just that: Guidelines rather than hard rules. This basically means that the DM has to allow it (and make it a houserule). With this in mind, I don't think it's something we have to balance against. Heck, with the trap creation rules you could get an auto-resetting stick that always heals you with CLW for like 2000 gp, which is of course pretty silly.
JulesCARV 09-07-06, 01:56 AM	I'm familiar with the (SL * CL * 720) + 100 formula, and it fits the given eternal wand prices (for SL 0/CL 1, SL 1/CL 1, SL 2/CL 3, and SL 3/CL5 wands), but it's not official. I suppose you could get a coautl to cast various "arcane cleric" spells. It requires Summon Monster IX, though, which not many people in Eberron can cast.
OneWinged4ngel 09-07-06, 01:58 AM	Or meeting a couatl. Or a naga. Guess which is probably easier? :D
Save-vs-DM 09-07-06, 02:25 AM	The toilet you made is actually... straight out of a sourcebook (Stronghold builder's guidebook IIRC) and probably far too expensive and dangerous for a toilet :P I'll be a monkey's uncle! Granted, I don't own that book, but it's something my buddies and I used for years as a fun thing. (I think it came about around the third pitcher of beer). Save vs DM
Euangelion 09-07-06, 08:25 AM	On the other hand, is there any reason an artificer couldn't make an eternal wand of remove disease? As mentioned earlier, remove disease can be an arcane spell, so why couldn't an artificer emulate it as such while creating the wand?
OneWinged4ngel 09-07-06, 09:21 PM	It really falls to DM fiat, I guess. Some DMs will never let you get divine spells, some will allow it through special circumstances, and some will even allow the unclarified interpretation of the PHB that you can just learn them whenever you feel like it as a wizard (This still doesn't have errata for some strange reason)
neantollo 09-16-06, 10:02 AM	In my game, there is an upscale restaurant the PCs frequent that has globes of ray of frost mounted on the celings, making the place well air-conditioned.
VVill 09-16-06, 11:33 AM	what about the umbrella of endure elements?