10th level Forgotten Forge [Archive] - Wizards Community

10th level Forgotten Forge [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Saurenda
08-30-04, 09:47 PM I was planning on beginning my new Eberron Game differently, and having the characters work thier way up to about 10 before I did forgotten forge. Justifying Elyadren's choice in the adventurers.

I plan to use Brilliant Energy (Thank you Men ^^) weapons (+4 enchancement magic weapons section dmg 3.5) They hurt flesh and do not cut metal. This is my added bonus to the FF, a method of weaponry that the Lord of Blades has developed to only harm flesh.

Edit: As for warforged in the party there aren't any in this one, and most of the characters are seasoned Dnd Veterans. The Brilliant Energy weapons will be around 50k each and yes there are four of them, two if Saber gets away. But Brilliant Energy weapons are not used as widely as masterwork weapons. Artificers could study them and find an exact price.

It seems lucrative:
230,000 gp split between four people level 10; 57500gp each. Minus Expendible items (No Cleric), and minus Bribing the Goblin in the Sewers (His greed has increased as well).

Cutter; Force Axe 1d12+4 without strength modification
Barb 15

Unamed Rouge Warforged (I called him Razor) 1d6+4 without dex
Rouge 15

Saber 1d8+4 and another 1d8+4 One for each hand =D
Fighter 10 / WJ5

All attacks negate any and all armor that is not a symbiot(flesh) doned by the party. Thus a character with AC because of platemail loses that AC on an attack, yet still retains armor gained by magical means like a ring or bracer.

In adittion to that, at the end of the adventure Saber will pretend to be the actual Lord of Blades as he has taken levels in WJ.

Also there will be a surprise, a Warforged Charger, Syphon Monk 10/WC 5
Heh heh, just because it wasn't in the book...I saw the picture!

In the beginning of the Adventure the morgrave university professor is just casualty one of Cutter's needless killing Spree. She'll get about 4d4 victums in the first moment they see her. Dolom will be on the ground and out.
Reviving him will promote a better relation with the watch. If they kill him or rob him which I doubt it gets them named outlaws.

Elyadren will hurry word to the adventurers that the Lord of Blades is in the City now looking for the creation Schema. She'll offer 10k for the Schema and 20k for the destruction of the Lord of Blade once and for all(Saber).

Upon thier journey downward they run into Razor, and his two Were Touched Masters.

Then Horrid Rats. (A swarm of them)

Swarm of Bronze Locusts.

Then Adamantine Defenders (formerly Iron Defenders)
I changed thier AC and attacks, and made them(3) each CR 8

Finally
Saber and Syphon, who run if they are damaged too greatly.

Yikes. Sounds like I over did it all. It will be a about a month before we get this far. Anyone think I have just sent them to an untimly death? 4 level Ten characters.
Mentat55
08-30-04, 10:03 PM I guess my first concern as a DM would be the force weapons. They sound alot like brilliant energy weapons, in that they bypass nonliving matter and thus armor and shield bonuses to AC. I am not sure I want my party scavenging a bunch of extremely powerful magic weapons from their fallen enemies. The cheapest brilliant energy weapon you can get has a market price of 50,000 gp; if I am reading your encounters correctly, there would be a total of four such weapons. Not to mention that if your party has a warforged in it, the 'forged is going to be totally immune to these weapons. Just something to consider.

Otherwise, I like the twist that people think the Lord of Blades is in Sharn, even if the idea sounds improbable, it certainly would generate some buzz. As for the final encounter, it might be a challenge if the PCs are sufficiently worn down at that point; otherwise, one 10th lvl and one 11th lvl foe aren't going to put up much of a fight for four 10th lvl PCs. But I imagine that between the horrid rats, the locust swarm, and adamantine defenders, the PCs might be pretty dinged at that point.
bleedingedge40
08-31-04, 11:47 PM You need to be careful with brilliant energy weapons. A fighter and fighting cleric in our now epic campaign have these, and they pretty much allow a high level character to go max power attack 100% of the time (either the weapon doesn't work at all or the creature's AC is so low vs. the weapon that your BAB isn't needed). This makes the damage output of someone weilding one of these weapons extremely high. I would be A) concerned about TPK if they fight more than one person weilding such a weapon at one time and B) very concerned about what it would do to my campaign if I let every melee character in the party have one, which your module would let them do.

From a game world point of view a brilliant energy weapon requires a 15th level creator minimum, and there are very few people in eberron that big. (yes I know artificers can fake levels, but there aren't many artificers big enough to do that either) And most big enough are too busy to waste time making magic items.

You could drop one or two into the module, if you don't mind the players getting them. We plan on having our Eberron game go epic eventually (started with L6 characters), and in such a long lasting game I'd hesitate to give out BE weapons so 'early' in the character's life cycle. If the game is shorter or you don't mind the power level then go for it.
Saurenda
09-01-04, 02:24 PM The reason I originally choose them is because the Lord of Blades would be looking for weapons that hurt humans, and not constructs. After ment and your opinions though, I will alter it a bit. It does not seems BE weapons were the right choice, though thematically I thought it was a good idea =D
Gurv
09-01-04, 06:21 PM A good cheap alternative for magic weapons is Bane. I don't know the exact make-up of your party, but I'm guessing a couple of human-bane and shaperchanger-bane weapons would have a huge impact on your group.

If I can guess that, then so can the LoB.

Bane weapons are one of the most effective enchantments in the game because they are relatively easy to make, and they don't cause a negative level even if you are weilding a weapon that is bane against you.
For example, an artificer using the Personal Weapon Augmentation infusion can create a weapon that is +2 and does an extra 2d6 damage, assuming he know what he's going to be fighting a minute from now.

Shapechanger isn't on the random table for bane weapons...anyone know why?
bleedingedge40
09-01-04, 07:41 PM The reason I originally choose them is because the Lord of Blades would be looking for weapons that hurt humans, and not constructs. After ment and your opinions though, I will alter it a bit. It does not seems BE weapons were the right choice, though thematically I thought it was a good idea =D

Oh, you were 100% spot on that the LoBster would love BE weapons, unfortunately for him (and fortunately for you players :) ) there shouldn't be many for him to get his hands on, given the high caster level requirements.

I agree with gurv that bane (and holy/unholy if your party is predomantly good/evil) are great alternatives that balance much better for a 10th level party. And you can stack both for +4d6 per hit if you really want to be cruel. ;)
eRaz0r
09-01-04, 08:27 PM Oh, and there's nothing to say that the Warforged is immune to BE weapons. They'll ignore his nice metal composite plating and slice through the delicate living wood inside just nicely.
Any advantage he'd get from being mostly metal is made up for by having some vital living components inside him.

I'd be tempted to allow that Warforged Juggernaut level 5 might be immune, but that's about as far as I'd go with it.

Remember - Warforged are Living Constructs : unless it's specifically mentioned in their race description, they don't get a benefit "just because it seems like it makes sense to me". There's nothing there about Brilliant Energy weapons having no effect on them, ergo : they're fully vulnerable to them.
sheik
09-01-04, 09:04 PM I'd say don't give up on your idea so easily Saurenda.

Personally I really like the idea of Brilliant Energy weapons being using by the warforged. If nothing else, I see the Lord of Blades using such weapons. Think about what it would say to his followers.

Perhaps House Cannith or the artificers of the LoB discover a method of producing such weapons inexpensively, much like the mass production of warforged. Though perhaps there is a limit on how much damage they can do, or how big they can be (avoid two-handed power attacks) due to the magic or 'pattern' used to create them. Or maybe they only work for a limited amoung of time each day dues to the shards required to 'power' them.

Or you could keep them at the same power level, thus perhaps given the the LoB's warforged the edge they need to make up for their limited numbers. Sure they are powerful, but everything can be balanced out by making the encounters more or less difficult. The CR of battling a bunch of paladins would be much lower with these weapons, and going up against an iron golem might be higher now. And perhaps other people are now going to want what they now have if they truly are over powered.

I guess my point is, more important than mechanics is how is this idea going to effect the world of Eberron? It seems to fit very well with the theme of racism and exagerating the differences between warforged and demi-humans. Would they change the balance of power? What counters measures would other nations take.

I'd be curious to hear what you decide.

2¢,

dana. (sheik)
GoodTeletubby
09-01-04, 09:29 PM Shapechanger isn't on the random table for bane weapons...anyone know why?

because it's no longer a creature type, it's a subtype

you'd have to get a bane weapon for whatever the creature type is
godpunch
09-01-04, 09:56 PM If you were worried about unbalancing things by having those weapons falling into the hands of the characters, you could make them either *hurt* the user if he is not a construct, or have the weapons strictly outlawed in any major cities. (At least this would make it difficult for the characters to transport the weapons and use them in public, although at 10th level I doubt there will be a whole lot anyone in the city gaurd can do about it :P )
Saurenda
09-01-04, 10:48 PM I think that Bane weapons are a perfect subsitute for Cutter and Nameless.

Having a BE longsword for Saber won't spoil things too much as no one in the party uses a longsword, so they would sell it for the cash.

As for generalizing it for everyone else, having a BE weapon in the hands of the lord of Blades and his most trusted generals, whom would look just like him, and bane [humanoid human] weapons would be very effective against House Cannith.

As for now I will change Cutter's axe to a human bane weapon and Nameless's weapon (rapier?) to human bane as well. Thanks for the idea it fits perfectly as well. :D

Making BE rare is understandable. And I am glad that some people seem to agree.

I will keep Saber with one, it makes sense to me seeing as how he proclaims himself a general of the Lord of Blades, although I doubt he is the best as he boasted.

It's a bit late here, and school tomorrow so I'll repost a revision sometime later. Thanks everyone.
Saurenda
09-01-04, 10:52 PM If you were worried about unbalancing things by having those weapons falling into the hands of the characters, you could make them either *hurt* the user if he is not a construct, or have the weapons strictly outlawed in any major cities. (At least this would make it difficult for the characters to transport the weapons and use them in public, although at 10th level I doubt there will be a whole lot anyone in the city gaurd can do about it :P )

Some one has a Brilliant mind for brilliance weapons! I think such a weapon recovered by the Lord of Blades from the ruins of Cyre would indeed be perfect contraband or unaccepted by House Cannith or otherwise and seen as inhumane from house Ghallandra. Excellent, sheer brilliance you could say.

Sergent Dolom after the escapade would be more strick on the enforcement of having watch members log the registry of exotic weapons and types that enter Sharn through customs.

The Dragonmarked Houses would probably ban thier use, and Curse Cannith for ever having invented them or developed them from Schemas from Xen 'drik.

Thanks! Very good idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Saurenda 08-30-04, 09:47 PM	I was planning on beginning my new Eberron Game differently, and having the characters work thier way up to about 10 before I did forgotten forge. Justifying Elyadren's choice in the adventurers. I plan to use Brilliant Energy (Thank you Men ^^) weapons (+4 enchancement magic weapons section dmg 3.5) They hurt flesh and do not cut metal. This is my added bonus to the FF, a method of weaponry that the Lord of Blades has developed to only harm flesh. Edit: As for warforged in the party there aren't any in this one, and most of the characters are seasoned Dnd Veterans. The Brilliant Energy weapons will be around 50k each and yes there are four of them, two if Saber gets away. But Brilliant Energy weapons are not used as widely as masterwork weapons. Artificers could study them and find an exact price. It seems lucrative: 230,000 gp split between four people level 10; 57500gp each. Minus Expendible items (No Cleric), and minus Bribing the Goblin in the Sewers (His greed has increased as well). Cutter; Force Axe 1d12+4 without strength modification Barb 15 Unamed Rouge Warforged (I called him Razor) 1d6+4 without dex Rouge 15 Saber 1d8+4 and another 1d8+4 One for each hand =D Fighter 10 / WJ5 All attacks negate any and all armor that is not a symbiot(flesh) doned by the party. Thus a character with AC because of platemail loses that AC on an attack, yet still retains armor gained by magical means like a ring or bracer. In adittion to that, at the end of the adventure Saber will pretend to be the actual Lord of Blades as he has taken levels in WJ. Also there will be a surprise, a Warforged Charger, Syphon Monk 10/WC 5 Heh heh, just because it wasn't in the book...I saw the picture! In the beginning of the Adventure the morgrave university professor is just casualty one of Cutter's needless killing Spree. She'll get about 4d4 victums in the first moment they see her. Dolom will be on the ground and out. Reviving him will promote a better relation with the watch. If they kill him or rob him which I doubt it gets them named outlaws. Elyadren will hurry word to the adventurers that the Lord of Blades is in the City now looking for the creation Schema. She'll offer 10k for the Schema and 20k for the destruction of the Lord of Blade once and for all(Saber). Upon thier journey downward they run into Razor, and his two Were Touched Masters. Then Horrid Rats. (A swarm of them) Swarm of Bronze Locusts. Then Adamantine Defenders (formerly Iron Defenders) I changed thier AC and attacks, and made them(3) each CR 8 Finally Saber and Syphon, who run if they are damaged too greatly. Yikes. Sounds like I over did it all. It will be a about a month before we get this far. Anyone think I have just sent them to an untimly death? 4 level Ten characters.
Mentat55 08-30-04, 10:03 PM	I guess my first concern as a DM would be the force weapons. They sound alot like brilliant energy weapons, in that they bypass nonliving matter and thus armor and shield bonuses to AC. I am not sure I want my party scavenging a bunch of extremely powerful magic weapons from their fallen enemies. The cheapest brilliant energy weapon you can get has a market price of 50,000 gp; if I am reading your encounters correctly, there would be a total of four such weapons. Not to mention that if your party has a warforged in it, the 'forged is going to be totally immune to these weapons. Just something to consider. Otherwise, I like the twist that people think the Lord of Blades is in Sharn, even if the idea sounds improbable, it certainly would generate some buzz. As for the final encounter, it might be a challenge if the PCs are sufficiently worn down at that point; otherwise, one 10th lvl and one 11th lvl foe aren't going to put up much of a fight for four 10th lvl PCs. But I imagine that between the horrid rats, the locust swarm, and adamantine defenders, the PCs might be pretty dinged at that point.
bleedingedge40 08-31-04, 11:47 PM	You need to be careful with brilliant energy weapons. A fighter and fighting cleric in our now epic campaign have these, and they pretty much allow a high level character to go max power attack 100% of the time (either the weapon doesn't work at all or the creature's AC is so low vs. the weapon that your BAB isn't needed). This makes the damage output of someone weilding one of these weapons extremely high. I would be A) concerned about TPK if they fight more than one person weilding such a weapon at one time and B) very concerned about what it would do to my campaign if I let every melee character in the party have one, which your module would let them do. From a game world point of view a brilliant energy weapon requires a 15th level creator minimum, and there are very few people in eberron that big. (yes I know artificers can fake levels, but there aren't many artificers big enough to do that either) And most big enough are too busy to waste time making magic items. You could drop one or two into the module, if you don't mind the players getting them. We plan on having our Eberron game go epic eventually (started with L6 characters), and in such a long lasting game I'd hesitate to give out BE weapons so 'early' in the character's life cycle. If the game is shorter or you don't mind the power level then go for it.
Saurenda 09-01-04, 02:24 PM	The reason I originally choose them is because the Lord of Blades would be looking for weapons that hurt humans, and not constructs. After ment and your opinions though, I will alter it a bit. It does not seems BE weapons were the right choice, though thematically I thought it was a good idea =D
Gurv 09-01-04, 06:21 PM	A good cheap alternative for magic weapons is Bane. I don't know the exact make-up of your party, but I'm guessing a couple of human-bane and shaperchanger-bane weapons would have a huge impact on your group. If I can guess that, then so can the LoB. Bane weapons are one of the most effective enchantments in the game because they are relatively easy to make, and they don't cause a negative level even if you are weilding a weapon that is bane against you. For example, an artificer using the Personal Weapon Augmentation infusion can create a weapon that is +2 and does an extra 2d6 damage, assuming he know what he's going to be fighting a minute from now. Shapechanger isn't on the random table for bane weapons...anyone know why?
bleedingedge40 09-01-04, 07:41 PM	The reason I originally choose them is because the Lord of Blades would be looking for weapons that hurt humans, and not constructs. After ment and your opinions though, I will alter it a bit. It does not seems BE weapons were the right choice, though thematically I thought it was a good idea =D Oh, you were 100% spot on that the LoBster would love BE weapons, unfortunately for him (and fortunately for you players :) ) there shouldn't be many for him to get his hands on, given the high caster level requirements. I agree with gurv that bane (and holy/unholy if your party is predomantly good/evil) are great alternatives that balance much better for a 10th level party. And you can stack both for +4d6 per hit if you really want to be cruel. ;)
eRaz0r 09-01-04, 08:27 PM	Oh, and there's nothing to say that the Warforged is immune to BE weapons. They'll ignore his nice metal composite plating and slice through the delicate living wood inside just nicely. Any advantage he'd get from being mostly metal is made up for by having some vital living components inside him. I'd be tempted to allow that Warforged Juggernaut level 5 might be immune, but that's about as far as I'd go with it. Remember - Warforged are Living Constructs : unless it's specifically mentioned in their race description, they don't get a benefit "just because it seems like it makes sense to me". There's nothing there about Brilliant Energy weapons having no effect on them, ergo : they're fully vulnerable to them.
sheik 09-01-04, 09:04 PM	I'd say don't give up on your idea so easily Saurenda. Personally I really like the idea of Brilliant Energy weapons being using by the warforged. If nothing else, I see the Lord of Blades using such weapons. Think about what it would say to his followers. Perhaps House Cannith or the artificers of the LoB discover a method of producing such weapons inexpensively, much like the mass production of warforged. Though perhaps there is a limit on how much damage they can do, or how big they can be (avoid two-handed power attacks) due to the magic or 'pattern' used to create them. Or maybe they only work for a limited amoung of time each day dues to the shards required to 'power' them. Or you could keep them at the same power level, thus perhaps given the the LoB's warforged the edge they need to make up for their limited numbers. Sure they are powerful, but everything can be balanced out by making the encounters more or less difficult. The CR of battling a bunch of paladins would be much lower with these weapons, and going up against an iron golem might be higher now. And perhaps other people are now going to want what they now have if they truly are over powered. I guess my point is, more important than mechanics is how is this idea going to effect the world of Eberron? It seems to fit very well with the theme of racism and exagerating the differences between warforged and demi-humans. Would they change the balance of power? What counters measures would other nations take. I'd be curious to hear what you decide. 2¢, dana. (sheik)
GoodTeletubby 09-01-04, 09:29 PM	Shapechanger isn't on the random table for bane weapons...anyone know why? because it's no longer a creature type, it's a subtype you'd have to get a bane weapon for whatever the creature type is
godpunch 09-01-04, 09:56 PM	If you were worried about unbalancing things by having those weapons falling into the hands of the characters, you could make them either hurt the user if he is not a construct, or have the weapons strictly outlawed in any major cities. (At least this would make it difficult for the characters to transport the weapons and use them in public, although at 10th level I doubt there will be a whole lot anyone in the city gaurd can do about it :P )
Saurenda 09-01-04, 10:48 PM	I think that Bane weapons are a perfect subsitute for Cutter and Nameless. Having a BE longsword for Saber won't spoil things too much as no one in the party uses a longsword, so they would sell it for the cash. As for generalizing it for everyone else, having a BE weapon in the hands of the lord of Blades and his most trusted generals, whom would look just like him, and bane [humanoid human] weapons would be very effective against House Cannith. As for now I will change Cutter's axe to a human bane weapon and Nameless's weapon (rapier?) to human bane as well. Thanks for the idea it fits perfectly as well. :D Making BE rare is understandable. And I am glad that some people seem to agree. I will keep Saber with one, it makes sense to me seeing as how he proclaims himself a general of the Lord of Blades, although I doubt he is the best as he boasted. It's a bit late here, and school tomorrow so I'll repost a revision sometime later. Thanks everyone.
Saurenda 09-01-04, 10:52 PM	If you were worried about unbalancing things by having those weapons falling into the hands of the characters, you could make them either hurt the user if he is not a construct, or have the weapons strictly outlawed in any major cities. (At least this would make it difficult for the characters to transport the weapons and use them in public, although at 10th level I doubt there will be a whole lot anyone in the city gaurd can do about it :P ) Some one has a Brilliant mind for brilliance weapons! I think such a weapon recovered by the Lord of Blades from the ruins of Cyre would indeed be perfect contraband or unaccepted by House Cannith or otherwise and seen as inhumane from house Ghallandra. Excellent, sheer brilliance you could say. Sergent Dolom after the escapade would be more strick on the enforcement of having watch members log the registry of exotic weapons and types that enter Sharn through customs. The Dragonmarked Houses would probably ban thier use, and Curse Cannith for ever having invented them or developed them from Schemas from Xen 'drik. Thanks! Very good idea.