Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elliot22 02-24-07, 06:08 PM	Okay, I havn't found a thread for this recently since a lot of the OLD threads were deleted... But I was wondering, In Secrets of Sarlona is there a 13-1 with the different nations... I thought I read about one, but I couldn't find where I read it when I thought of this... I have also been wondering if there are any new 13-1 since Secrets of Xen'drik came out as well?
Wymarc 02-26-07, 11:57 AM	there is 13-1 Kalarq Quori
Elliot22 02-26-07, 12:47 PM	Is that the math one? Cause I know that there is one like there were 67 Spirits that fled from Dal Quor to be Kalashtar, but then Taratai died in the wars and now there are considered 66... 6+7 = 13, while 6+6 = 12, 13-1... so yeah. I was also wondering if someone could help me with a recap of all the 13-1's found.. I'm thinking about running a campaign focused on it, but can't find any threads with them listed. I can remember the planes, moons, dragonmarks, kalashtar/quori spirit math (stated above), and dwarven clans, what were the others?
Nived 02-26-07, 01:45 PM	There are 13 unique planes, but only 12 of them currently interact with Eberron on a regular basis. There are 13 different dragonmarks (not houses), but only 12 currently exist (all known bearers of the Mark of Death were destroyed). Similarly, there are 13 Dragonmarked Houses, but they only represent these twelve remaining Marks. There are currently 13 different nations, but one of those is a wasteland (the Mournland). Not all nations are "officially recognized." The ancient calendar of the giant empire is said to have 13 months, whereas the current calendar has 12. During the Age of Giants, legend says there were 13 moons, but currently there are 12 (one has vanished). In the dwarven Mror Holds, there were 13 clans, but one has been destroyed, leaving 12.
Wymarc 02-26-07, 01:50 PM	Is that the math one? Cause I know that there is one like there were 67 Spirits that fled from Dal Quor to be Kalashtar, but then Taratai died in the wars and now there are considered 66... 6+7 = 13, while 6+6 = 12, 13-1... so yeah. huh? Im talking about actual quori, all 13 Kalarq Quori are free in Dal Quor or possesing inspired - 1 that was bound to a crystal in Kasha Keep.
cancerousmango 02-26-07, 02:13 PM	Is that the math one? Cause I know that there is one like there were 67 Spirits that fled from Dal Quor to be Kalashtar, but then Taratai died in the wars and now there are considered 66... 6+7 = 13, while 6+6 = 12, 13-1... so yeah. Some quotes from the movie Pi that might be pertinent here. Sol Robeson: Hold on. You have to slow down. You're losing it. You have to take a breath. Listen to yourself. You're connecting a computer bug I had with a computer bug you might have had and some religious hogwash. You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere. Sol Robeson: As soon as you discard scientific rigor, you're no longer a mathematician, you're a numerologist.
Nived 02-26-07, 02:26 PM	Well I don't think that 13-1 is a spurrious phenomena in Eberron, it is there with a clear intention. Baker's Dozen is all over the place. I'll admit the Kalashtar connection is the most reading 67 escaped quori. 6+7=13. 66 survived 6+6=12. But I wouldn't put it past Keith. On a side note Mango who is this Zach Parsons in your sig... that Sean Connery thing has been burning my brain... demanding context.
Elliot22 02-26-07, 08:25 PM	Some quotes from the movie Pi that might be pertinent here. Sol Robeson: Hold on. You have to slow down. You're losing it. You have to take a breath. Listen to yourself. You're connecting a computer bug I had with a computer bug you might have had and some religious hogwash. You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere. Sol Robeson: As soon as you discard scientific rigor, you're no longer a mathematician, you're a numerologist. If you believe I actually thought that up, I'm sowwy... See, I remember that from another thread. When I read it I was so in awe that I still remember it to this day.. It was incredible reading that... I don't really like math, so I would have never thought of it. Oh, and I didn't know about the 13 Kalarq... That one is in Secrets of Sarlona I assume? I'll have to look that up. And thank you Nived, I forgot about the Months, and I thought there was a nation one, I just wasn't sure on all the details, isn't there also somehting on different Alphabets? Like there are only 12 written languages left? And like Giant is gone or something? See, I also assume that it isn't just there by accident... I think secretly there is a 13-1 in every book secretly hidden, I'm just not obbsessed enough to hunt them all down yet. Though for people just tuning in... This "Theory" use to be called "12+1".. but I thought it makes more sense as 13-1 because there WERE 13 things and now 1 is gone, where as 12+1 makes it sound like there are 12 things and one is added... Yeah, Sowwy to add that, I'm just bored in my Sound editing class.
cancerousmango 02-26-07, 08:40 PM	Damnit. Double post. Lemme take this opportunity to feed my daughter.
cancerousmango 02-26-07, 08:44 PM	On a side note Mango who is this Zach Parsons in your sig... that Sean Connery thing has been burning my brain... demanding context.It's from a feature called Fashion SWAT on Somethingawful. They make fun of goofy fashion shots. somethingawful.com/d/fashion-swat/retro-swat-5.php?page=10 Here is the site in question. EDIT: the feggin forum is being super-tarded about posting links to somethingawful.com. I can't do the proper http link, so just copy and paste that line into your browser.
Wrathamon 02-26-07, 08:49 PM	I believe wikipedia has the baker's dozen for eberron listed out.
cancerousmango 02-26-07, 10:21 PM	I believe wikipedia has the baker's dozen for eberron listed out. He lies. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eberron#The_number_13)
Wymarc 02-27-07, 03:19 PM	He lies. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eberron#The_number_13) ummm....... sorry, but it appers that he is correct.....
Yakman 02-28-07, 11:01 AM	The really interesting thing is that there are 6 gods in the sovreign host and 6 in the Dark six. What happened to the other one?
Nived 02-28-07, 11:32 AM	Sorry to call you on it Yak but there are 9 Host gods and 6 dark six gods. They don't fall into the Baker's Dozen pattern.
Yakman 02-28-07, 11:54 AM	Sorry to call you on it Yak but there are 9 Host gods and 6 dark six gods. They don't fall into the Baker's Dozen pattern. Well, they SHOULD. :pbbbtt:
The Dreaming Duck 02-28-07, 12:05 PM	Sorry to call you on it Yak but there are 9 Host gods and 6 dark six gods. Actually, the Dark Six are clearly the sinister aspects OF the Sovereigns, with no true independent existence of their own. Just consider... There are nine Sovereigns and six dark gods. 9 x 6 = 54 5 + 4 = 9 Thus, Nine and Six are, at the end of the day, nine alone. Aureon IS the Shadow; the Devourer is the wrath of Arawai and Balinor; the Mockery the dark reflection of Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah; and so on. They have no names of their own because they already have names - the names of the Sovereigns.
Elliot22 02-28-07, 01:01 PM	Actually, the Dark Six are clearly the sinister aspects OF the Sovereigns, with no true independent existence of their own. Just consider... There are nine Sovereigns and six dark gods. 9 x 6 = 54 5 + 4 = 9 Thus, Nine and Six are, at the end of the day, nine alone. Aureon IS the Shadow; the Devourer is the wrath of Arawai and Balinor; the Mockery the dark reflection of Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah; and so on. They have no names of their own because they already have names - the names of the Sovereigns. What are you talking about? The Devourer isn't the wrath of Arawai and Balinor.. it is there brother who had sex with Arawai and produced the Fury... The Mockery is the Brother to the Dol siblings... The Keeper is the Brother of Kol Korn (sp?) I believe... So they are seen as completely ligetimate and not "Sinister Aspects" of the host.. well.. yes they are, but not as just reflection some are actually related... Wait.. Now how did this conversation get tied into 13-1? At one point I was working on a way to show a 13-1 in the Host and Six... but I don't remember how I did it. Anywayz. To whoever posted that the "He lies" line was truthful. Yes Wikipedia lists SOME of the 13-1 but not all...
The Dreaming Duck 02-28-07, 01:50 PM	What are you talking about? I'm presenting a possible numerological theory, nothing more. OBVIOUSLY it's not what's presented in the ECS. But the whole point of the deities of Eberron is that there is no absolute truth. We don't know if they exist at all, let alone if the myths are true. Thus, my "Nine IS Six" theory could certainly find followers. The Devourer isn't the wrath of Arawai and Balinor.. it is there brother who had sex with Arawai... Yes, the myth says it was the Devourer who raped Arawai. But what is "the Devourer"? Why does it have no name? What if it was BALINOR who raped Arawai... and as this deed obviously couldn't be attributed to the noble god, it was assigned to the sinister "Devourer"? Together, Arawai and Balinor are deities of nature. But nature DOES destroy. So instead of accepting the idea that bountiful Arawai could be responsible for the hurricane and the storm, frightened people create a new god to blame for these disasters. Likewise with the Dols and the Mockery. Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah are seen as good gods. But war is hell. Terrible attrocities are committed in war. These couldn't be the work of the noble Dols... so clearly they are the work of the "Mockery", a treacherous sibling driven from the pantheon. We know Kol Korran is a god of commerce... but surely he wouldn't deal in SOULS. No, when a soul is snatched from Dolurrh, it must be the work of his "brother", the Keeper. Aureon and the Shadow? That relationship is the one that IS spelled out in the standard mythos. And the Traveler? The Traveler takes many forms, but can easily encompass the dark sides of Olladra and Onatar. Obviously this isn't the common theory. I'd expect it to be treated as heresy. But it's a perfectly possible theory... and from a numerical standpoint, as I've shown, Nine and Six can be reduced to Nine. (Of course, you could also say that 9+6 = 15, 1+5 = 6, and say that the six were the original and the nine are a mortal attempt to the six less threatening... six of one, half a dozen of another. ;) ) The 66/67 kalashtar spirits just set me thinking on these lines.
Elliot22 02-28-07, 02:38 PM	I'm presenting a possible numerological theory, nothing more. OBVIOUSLY it's not what's presented in the ECS. But the whole point of the deities of Eberron is that there is no absolute truth. We don't know if they exist at all, let alone if the myths are true. Thus, my "Nine IS Six" theory could certainly find followers. Yes, the myth says it was the Devourer who raped Arawai. But what is "the Devourer"? Why does it have no name? What if it was BALINOR who raped Arawai... and as this deed obviously couldn't be attributed to the noble god, it was assigned to the sinister "Devourer"? Together, Arawai and Balinor are deities of nature. But nature DOES destroy. So instead of accepting the idea that bountiful Arawai could be responsible for the hurricane and the storm, frightened people create a new god to blame for these disasters. Likewise with the Dols and the Mockery. Dol Dorn and Dol Arrah are seen as good gods. But war is hell. Terrible attrocities are committed in war. These couldn't be the work of the noble Dols... so clearly they are the work of the "Mockery", a treacherous sibling driven from the pantheon. We know Kol Korran is a god of commerce... but surely he wouldn't deal in SOULS. No, when a soul is snatched from Dolurrh, it must be the work of his "brother", the Keeper. Aureon and the Shadow? That relationship is the one that IS spelled out in the standard mythos. And the Traveler? The Traveler takes many forms, but can easily encompass the dark sides of Olladra and Onatar. Obviously this isn't the common theory. I'd expect it to be treated as heresy. But it's a perfectly possible theory... and from a numerical standpoint, as I've shown, Nine and Six can be reduced to Nine. (Of course, you could also say that 9+6 = 15, 1+5 = 6, and say that the six were the original and the nine are a mortal attempt to the six less threatening... six of one, half a dozen of another. ;) ) The 66/67 kalashtar spirits just set me thinking on these lines. Uhh. Actually they do have names. if you go to page 38 in Faiths of Eberron, it lists there names... I don't know if it is Legal to do so, so I'm not going to, but if you get a chance to go to your local game store or if you have the book and havn't read it cover to cover, page 38 gives there names.
The Dreaming Duck 02-28-07, 03:25 PM	Uhh. Actually they do have names. if you go to page 38 in Faiths of Eberron, it lists there names... But again, in Eberron, that's all but meaningless. Can you tell me the names of all of the Sovereigns? Is the name of the hunter Balinor, as the humans of the Five Nations believe, or Baalkan the Beastlord, as he's known in the Shadow Marches (per the ECS)? The civilization of the giants of Xen'drik is far older than that of humanity, and they knew the lord of light and lord as Ouralon (per SoX), not Aureon... does that mean that humanity is WRONG? What of the Restful Watch, who assert that Aureon and the Keeper are aligned, and that the Keeper actually saves the spirits of heroes from Dolurrh so they can return to fight in a great battle to come? The thing about the Sovereign Host is that there is no absolute right or wrong. The Church of the Silver Flame has an ironclad religious doctrine. But the Sovereign Host appears in different forms in every culture. The Restful Watch is found in the Lhazaar Principalities. We've seen examples of variant faiths in Q'barra, the Talenta Plains, and the Shadow Marches. So FoE may give names for the Dark Six... but whose legends do these names belong to? In any case, this is getting waaaaaaaay off topic. But there are no absolutes with the Sovereigns, and of all the religions presented in the world, they are the one with the greatest number of splinter sects. What I presented was the foundation for such a sect... nothing more.
cancerousmango 02-28-07, 07:31 PM	ummm....... sorry, but it appers that he is correct..... Sarcasm. Chill.