A feat and an item? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A feat and an item? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wick
05-23-06, 09:16 AM I am about to start an Eberron Campaign and have two questions.

I have a player that wants to create some sort of belt that will allow her artificer to carry a number of wants, she then wants to use the “quick draw” feat to access these wands in combat. I don’t see any problem with this I am just wondering if any has any ideas on what it might cost to create such a belt?

My other question is regarding a well-discussed topic but given the search tool on the boards, here we go again. I have a player that will be playing a human cleric of the Silver Flame and is wondering if I will allow him to have proficiency with the Longbow without blowing a feat? I know this has been discussed but at the time it was not an issue that affected me so I only read through them and nothing more. Any insight?
Syltorian
05-23-06, 09:30 AM About the belt, there is a similar item in Magic of Eberron (p.111) called a Wand Bracelet. It can store different types of things, not only wands, but that's what it is most famous for; drawing is a free action. Unfortunately, at 25,000 gp market price, it might not be available at low levels.

Regarding the Weapon Proficiency, perhaps you could consider switching to Unearthed Arcana Weapon Groups, and have the Cleric chose Basic Weapons, Bows and whatever other group he wants. It's even online, if you want to check that out. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm for the SRD version). I would allow it in my campaign even without groups, though.
Thrincold
05-23-06, 09:53 AM For the wand belt. As long as he has a reasonable number holstered on him, it takes nothing more than a belt with some snap release loops on it. Just remind him the wands are overall exposed and tempting for both thieves and sundering enemies to go after.

Something for something is the key. He can quick draw them, and have no additional cost for a belt, but his wands are at risk because of it.
Wick
05-23-06, 11:45 AM About the belt, there is a similar item in Magic of Eberron (p.111) called a Wand Bracelet. It can store different types of things, not only wands, but that's what it is most famous for; drawing is a free action. Unfortunately, at 25,000 gp market price, it might not be available at low levels.

The cost is the problem. I was thinking of finding a way to scale it down some. The item in MoE can hold 4 items. I was thinking of seeing about cutting that down to different bracelets for 1, 2, or 3 itesm with varialbe costs associated. What do you think about that?

For the wand belt. As long as he has a reasonable number holstered on him, it takes nothing more than a belt with some snap release loops on it. Just remind him the wands are overall exposed and tempting for both thieves and sundering enemies to go after.

Something for something is the key. He can quick draw them, and have no additional cost for a belt, but his wands are at risk because of it.

This is also a very good idea... I might find a way to combine them.

Regarding the Weapon Proficiency, perhaps you could consider switching to Unearthed Arcana Weapon Groups, and have the Cleric chose Basic Weapons, Bows and whatever other group he wants. It's even online, if you want to check that out. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm for the SRD version). I would allow it in my campaign even without groups, though.

I agree about just allowing it. I don't think it would be unbalancing.

Thanks for your help folks, if you have any other suggestions please feel free to pass them on...
Wick
05-23-06, 12:29 PM Given the cost of the Wand Bracelet item I have another idea. I am thinking of allowing 4 versions of this item. One for each slot in other words a single wand version up to the 4 wand version. The cost would be:

1 wand = 15625 gp
2 wand = 18750 gp
3 wand = 21875 gp
4 wand = 25000 gp

What I did for the pice was take the final cost of the item (25000) and divided it by 4 and added back in the 12500 cost of the item. However, I am not yet sure how to deal with the XP and time elements.

Any suggestions?
Syltorian
05-23-06, 12:39 PM Wouldn't a one-item Wand Bracelet be effectively a Glove of Storing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gloveofStoring)? In which case, 10,000 gp?

Then 15,000 gp for two, 20,000 gp for three and 25,000 gp for four (each time adding half again the value of the Glove of Storing to the existing item).

By the rules, the first increase for similar abilities should be 75% and not 50%, so you would end up with 27,500 gp for the four wands (an 17,500 gp for two), but as MoE says 25,000, a simple 50% seems fine.
Wick
05-23-06, 02:09 PM Wouldn't a one-item Wand Bracelet be effectively a Glove of Storing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gloveofStoring)? In which case, 10,000 gp?

I hate it when I get those brain lapses and forget about the obviouse...

I also agree with the rest of your points on price.

Thanks
Dragoloth
05-23-06, 11:00 PM In complete arcane there is a belt with 64 12 inch cubed pockets(8 pockets with 8 in each), can't remember name. It costs 11,000 gp. The pockets are extradimensional spaces.
ChimericalWolf
05-23-06, 11:50 PM Handy Haversack: A backpack of this sort appears to be well made, well used, and quite ordinary. It is constructed of finely tanned leather, and the straps have brass hardware and buckles. It has two side pouches, each of which appears large enough to hold about a quart of material. In fact, each is like a bag of holding and can actually hold material of as much as 2 cubic feet in volume or 20 pounds in weight. The large central portion of the pack can contain up to 8 cubic feet or 80 pounds of material. Even when so filled, the backpack always weighs only 5 pounds.
While such storage is useful enough, the pack has an even greater power in addition. When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top. Thus, no digging around and fumbling is ever necessary to find what a haversack contains. Retrieving any specific item from a haversack is a move action, but it does not provoke the attacks of opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does.
Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest; Price 2,000 gp;Weight 5 lb.

Slotless item: Holds ~120 lbs. Retrieve chosen item as move action. Flavored as a backpack. 2000 GP

New Item:
Bountiful Belt: Slotless, holds 120 lbs. Retrieve chosen item as move action. Flavored as a belt. (but does not take the slot) 2000 GP
Loki5654
05-24-06, 12:33 AM Slotless item: Holds ~120 lbs. Retrieve chosen item as move action. Flavored as a backpack. 2000 GP

New Item:
Bountiful Belt: Slotless, holds 120 lbs. Retrieve chosen item as move action. Flavored as a belt. (but does not take the slot) 2000 GP

Maybe call it a Bountiful Bandolier so people don't assume it takes up the belt slot.
ChimericalWolf
05-24-06, 12:41 AM Maybe call it a Bountiful Bandolier so people don't assume it takes up the belt slot.
You're stifling my creativity!

AARGH!!!
Dr. Benway
05-24-06, 06:04 AM I could be wrong on this since it has been awhile, but I am pretty sure that the Forgotten Realms Campagin Setting has both wand and potion belts/bandoliers. Each stores like six I do believe and wearing them counts as having the item 'ready' and so onlya move action to retrieve them. Very easy to quickdraw from of course. The cost on these things is the same as any other masterwork non-weapon item/tool.
There you go, hope that ehlps ;)

DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul who shall prevail?
PoeticJustice
05-25-06, 09:01 AM Regarding your second question...

If I were DM'ing, I'd say no. The first job of the DM is, however, to create a fun game for his players and if your player feels he's being cheated by the rules, that can be difficult. Therefore, work with your player to strike a bargain everyone's happy with. The following compromises are fair:

Let him take a flaw in exchange for the feat. A -2 on melee attacks seems an okay trade for bow proficiency.

Allow him to train in-game in order to get the feat for 25 gold and two weeks stay at a fighter school. Give the rest of the party in extremely small sidequest (as in one encounter like a riddle contest, a barroom brawl, or a summoned elemental wreaking havoc on the streets) to keep things even.

Give him access to a custom made feat that reflects his religions proclivity toward archery. For starters, I'd give an attack bonus on creatures with the 'Evil' Subtype in addition to proficiency.
travellersside
05-27-06, 07:53 PM Grant the Bow proficiency, but take something else away, such as both medium and heavy armour proficiency. Say that it's because that particular group of clerics focus on archery, which means that they don't want to be slowed down by bulky armour.
Any multiclass that would give him the armour would probably give him the bow prof anyway.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wick 05-23-06, 09:16 AM	I am about to start an Eberron Campaign and have two questions. I have a player that wants to create some sort of belt that will allow her artificer to carry a number of wants, she then wants to use the “quick draw” feat to access these wands in combat. I don’t see any problem with this I am just wondering if any has any ideas on what it might cost to create such a belt? My other question is regarding a well-discussed topic but given the search tool on the boards, here we go again. I have a player that will be playing a human cleric of the Silver Flame and is wondering if I will allow him to have proficiency with the Longbow without blowing a feat? I know this has been discussed but at the time it was not an issue that affected me so I only read through them and nothing more. Any insight?
Syltorian 05-23-06, 09:30 AM	About the belt, there is a similar item in Magic of Eberron (p.111) called a Wand Bracelet. It can store different types of things, not only wands, but that's what it is most famous for; drawing is a free action. Unfortunately, at 25,000 gp market price, it might not be available at low levels. Regarding the Weapon Proficiency, perhaps you could consider switching to Unearthed Arcana Weapon Groups, and have the Cleric chose Basic Weapons, Bows and whatever other group he wants. It's even online, if you want to check that out. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm for the SRD version). I would allow it in my campaign even without groups, though.
Thrincold 05-23-06, 09:53 AM	For the wand belt. As long as he has a reasonable number holstered on him, it takes nothing more than a belt with some snap release loops on it. Just remind him the wands are overall exposed and tempting for both thieves and sundering enemies to go after. Something for something is the key. He can quick draw them, and have no additional cost for a belt, but his wands are at risk because of it.
Wick 05-23-06, 11:45 AM	About the belt, there is a similar item in Magic of Eberron (p.111) called a Wand Bracelet. It can store different types of things, not only wands, but that's what it is most famous for; drawing is a free action. Unfortunately, at 25,000 gp market price, it might not be available at low levels. The cost is the problem. I was thinking of finding a way to scale it down some. The item in MoE can hold 4 items. I was thinking of seeing about cutting that down to different bracelets for 1, 2, or 3 itesm with varialbe costs associated. What do you think about that? For the wand belt. As long as he has a reasonable number holstered on him, it takes nothing more than a belt with some snap release loops on it. Just remind him the wands are overall exposed and tempting for both thieves and sundering enemies to go after. Something for something is the key. He can quick draw them, and have no additional cost for a belt, but his wands are at risk because of it. This is also a very good idea... I might find a way to combine them. Regarding the Weapon Proficiency, perhaps you could consider switching to Unearthed Arcana Weapon Groups, and have the Cleric chose Basic Weapons, Bows and whatever other group he wants. It's even online, if you want to check that out. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm for the SRD version). I would allow it in my campaign even without groups, though. I agree about just allowing it. I don't think it would be unbalancing. Thanks for your help folks, if you have any other suggestions please feel free to pass them on...
Wick 05-23-06, 12:29 PM	Given the cost of the Wand Bracelet item I have another idea. I am thinking of allowing 4 versions of this item. One for each slot in other words a single wand version up to the 4 wand version. The cost would be: 1 wand = 15625 gp 2 wand = 18750 gp 3 wand = 21875 gp 4 wand = 25000 gp What I did for the pice was take the final cost of the item (25000) and divided it by 4 and added back in the 12500 cost of the item. However, I am not yet sure how to deal with the XP and time elements. Any suggestions?
Syltorian 05-23-06, 12:39 PM	Wouldn't a one-item Wand Bracelet be effectively a Glove of Storing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gloveofStoring)? In which case, 10,000 gp? Then 15,000 gp for two, 20,000 gp for three and 25,000 gp for four (each time adding half again the value of the Glove of Storing to the existing item). By the rules, the first increase for similar abilities should be 75% and not 50%, so you would end up with 27,500 gp for the four wands (an 17,500 gp for two), but as MoE says 25,000, a simple 50% seems fine.
Wick 05-23-06, 02:09 PM	Wouldn't a one-item Wand Bracelet be effectively a Glove of Storing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gloveofStoring)? In which case, 10,000 gp? I hate it when I get those brain lapses and forget about the obviouse... I also agree with the rest of your points on price. Thanks
Dragoloth 05-23-06, 11:00 PM	In complete arcane there is a belt with 64 12 inch cubed pockets(8 pockets with 8 in each), can't remember name. It costs 11,000 gp. The pockets are extradimensional spaces.
ChimericalWolf 05-23-06, 11:50 PM	Handy Haversack: A backpack of this sort appears to be well made, well used, and quite ordinary. It is constructed of finely tanned leather, and the straps have brass hardware and buckles. It has two side pouches, each of which appears large enough to hold about a quart of material. In fact, each is like a bag of holding and can actually hold material of as much as 2 cubic feet in volume or 20 pounds in weight. The large central portion of the pack can contain up to 8 cubic feet or 80 pounds of material. Even when so filled, the backpack always weighs only 5 pounds. While such storage is useful enough, the pack has an even greater power in addition. When the wearer reaches into it for a specific item, that item is always on top. Thus, no digging around and fumbling is ever necessary to find what a haversack contains. Retrieving any specific item from a haversack is a move action, but it does not provoke the attacks of opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does. Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest; Price 2,000 gp;Weight 5 lb. Slotless item: Holds ~120 lbs. Retrieve chosen item as move action. Flavored as a backpack. 2000 GP New Item: Bountiful Belt: Slotless, holds 120 lbs. Retrieve chosen item as move action. Flavored as a belt. (but does not take the slot) 2000 GP
Loki5654 05-24-06, 12:33 AM	Slotless item: Holds ~120 lbs. Retrieve chosen item as move action. Flavored as a backpack. 2000 GP New Item: Bountiful Belt: Slotless, holds 120 lbs. Retrieve chosen item as move action. Flavored as a belt. (but does not take the slot) 2000 GP Maybe call it a Bountiful Bandolier so people don't assume it takes up the belt slot.
ChimericalWolf 05-24-06, 12:41 AM	Maybe call it a Bountiful Bandolier so people don't assume it takes up the belt slot. You're stifling my creativity! AARGH!!!
Dr. Benway 05-24-06, 06:04 AM	I could be wrong on this since it has been awhile, but I am pretty sure that the Forgotten Realms Campagin Setting has both wand and potion belts/bandoliers. Each stores like six I do believe and wearing them counts as having the item 'ready' and so onlya move action to retrieve them. Very easy to quickdraw from of course. The cost on these things is the same as any other masterwork non-weapon item/tool. There you go, hope that ehlps ;) DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul who shall prevail?
PoeticJustice 05-25-06, 09:01 AM	Regarding your second question... If I were DM'ing, I'd say no. The first job of the DM is, however, to create a fun game for his players and if your player feels he's being cheated by the rules, that can be difficult. Therefore, work with your player to strike a bargain everyone's happy with. The following compromises are fair: Let him take a flaw in exchange for the feat. A -2 on melee attacks seems an okay trade for bow proficiency. Allow him to train in-game in order to get the feat for 25 gold and two weeks stay at a fighter school. Give the rest of the party in extremely small sidequest (as in one encounter like a riddle contest, a barroom brawl, or a summoned elemental wreaking havoc on the streets) to keep things even. Give him access to a custom made feat that reflects his religions proclivity toward archery. For starters, I'd give an attack bonus on creatures with the 'Evil' Subtype in addition to proficiency.
travellersside 05-27-06, 07:53 PM	Grant the Bow proficiency, but take something else away, such as both medium and heavy armour proficiency. Say that it's because that particular group of clerics focus on archery, which means that they don't want to be slowed down by bulky armour. Any multiclass that would give him the armour would probably give him the bow prof anyway.